| Author | Message | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 960 Registered: 10-2001 |
The biggest problems in exotics are design flaws. All exotics seem to have some. In my Lotus, the water pump on the TC engine is the big one ($4k to upgrade to a new system) and the cooling system (remadied by new water pump and fan). On F cars it's the belts and the service/breakage issues. I'm sure Lambos have them too (clutch?). When choosing a car, it's those design flaws that make for a good or bad experience. Everything else can be delt with with upgrades to make a reliable car. I have a reliable Europa; there's | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Member Username: Davel Post Number: 276 Registered: 7-2001 |
Basic service alone makes most if not all Fcars more expensive to maintain than most 4 or 8 cyl Lotus. The V8 belt adjust and replacement is free for basically the life of the car at a dealer. That pretty much makes it cheaper to own. As far as exotic appeal thats the beauty of the beholder. The 355 is much more pleasing over the long run with the integrated aerodynamics and no add on spoiler. Ive owned 3 turbo's. Im considering an Fcar simply because Ive never owned one. Life is too short to not attempt both. I see lots of "problems with my former lotus" stories here which are no different than the Fcar owners. In owning the 3 Lotus my experience was pretty much along the lines of NSX ownership. I had no major problems and did only routine maint with over 50k miles in ownership. Not bad for a truly handmade exotic. | ||
| matt green (Mattg)
New member Username: Mattg Post Number: 23 Registered: 4-2003 |
really the only problem with the esprit clutch hydraulics was a red plastic clutch line that would expand and drop pressure in the heat. I had mine replaced with a stainless steel braided clutch line and the box works perfect. My last car purchase was a toss between a low mile Fcar and a low mile esprit. The esprit won for many reasons. The number 1 reason i got the lotus over the fcar was fcar owners discussing thier less than desirable experiences.... Like 40 hours labor for engine out to replace a 60$ belt??? INSANITY | ||
| Mfennell70 (Mfennell70)
Junior Member Username: Mfennell70 Post Number: 139 Registered: 7-2001 |
I wonder if you owned an '88? That's true of the Citroen gearbox cars (through '88), specifically the crownwheel and pinion, but Renault parts are still plentiful and in stock at Lotus Cars USA. The electrical system was redone for '89 as well. The clutch hydraulics still suck though. | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 170 Registered: 2-2003 |
http://www.espritfactfile.com/ | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5140 Registered: 12-2000 |
Thanks for your info Cal and welcome to FerrariChat.com! | ||
| Craig Allen (Cal)
New member Username: Cal Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2003 |
Hi guys, this is my first post, I've been lurking here for a looong time, and finally feel that I can add something to the discussion. I owned a Turbo Esprit SE for a little over a year, even with a warranty it was a huge amount of trouble. The car was owned by a collector and had been driven very little, problems included (but are not limited to: �Cracked oil cooler �Clutch cylinder leak �Turbo imploded (quite amusing watching shrapnel fly out the exhaust pipe into the path of tailgaters!) �Electronic gremlins, locked me out the car, killed the windows/lights The list goes on, however, the biggest reason for selling was the unavailability of gearbox parts, as I�m sure many of you know, they have ceased making the box and parts are becoming scarce. I drove a BMW M3 for a year, fantastic car, but really don�t need a daily driver with that kind of performance anymore + I�ve been saving, and searching for an F355 Berlinetta. I have finally found one and will be collecting it this Friday evening. Words cannot describe how excited I am! Since first seeing it in 1994 it has been a dream of mine to own one, and now it�s finally here (almost!) I look forward to hopefully adding some helpful/useful content to this fantastic forum. Kind regards, Cal | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5119 Registered: 12-2000 |
I've driven both a 4 (Thanks Greg!) and the 8 (Thanks Sean!) and both just impressed me how quick they are and torquey off the start. I haven't driven a 355 on the street, but can't imagine it would feel that quick off the start. If the 355 is like other Ferraris, it's strength in acceleration and handling is at the top end and not bottom end. The looks and turbo of the Lotus have to make it more exotic too. I didn't like the feel, but that may take time to get use to and adjust properly. I do like the cockpit, again more exotic than the 355. I think Lotus is one of the best bangs for the buck now. However, I would still get the Ferrari if it wasn't going to break the bank. I think long term the 355 would be more reliable and cheaper to maintain. However, for the discount you get the Lotus, you can get a free engine rebuild or two out of that. I'm still a Ferrari person by heart and there are many objective reasons to that too. | ||
| James Adams (Madmaxx)
Junior Member Username: Madmaxx Post Number: 120 Registered: 11-2002 |
I just couldn't get comfortable, and the non-tilt wheel (Ugly! Gimme the Euro spec wheel!) was too low (in my thighs). Of course, my thighs are pretty large, and i'm mostly leg. I've yet to sit in a car with the GT3 seat and rails removed, it might help some. MM | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3121 Registered: 6-2001 |
I've never been in a normal F355, but it would have more interior room because there wouldnt be a roll cage. The cage did make it a little harder to get into. In the esprit, you can always pop the sunroof panel up, or even take it off if you need more headroom. | ||
| matt green (Mattg)
New member Username: Mattg Post Number: 22 Registered: 4-2003 |
oh im also 6'3" and the esprit is very comfortable and has the tallest seats ive seen. | ||
| matt green (Mattg)
New member Username: Mattg Post Number: 21 Registered: 4-2003 |
I own a 95 esprit s4s and it is as reliable as my 2003 infinity g35. It has tons of power, a beautiful interior and it feels more like a rolls royce than a kit car to me. It is a tough car compared to the f-cars wich are more beautiful but dainty and delicate.... It is a refined supercar far more rare then the majority of f-brands. I love fcars too but the Lotus Esprit is a fantastic daily supercar.... | ||
| djmonk (Davem)
Member Username: Davem Post Number: 285 Registered: 1-2002 |
Thanks Tim. Wondering if perhaps with racing seats with less padding an maybe mounted diffrently if that gives the Challenge car an advantage? | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3117 Registered: 6-2001 |
As for roominess of an F355, i'm a little over 6' and i fit in Matt Karson's challenge car just fine with a helmet on. It didnt feel any bigger or smaller inside than an esprit. | ||
| Mfennell70 (Mfennell70)
Junior Member Username: Mfennell70 Post Number: 138 Registered: 7-2001 |
Sunny, $125 was for the workshop manual for the mechanical bits. The engine management manual was separate but similarly priced. Both are pretty well done. | ||
| Brian Jackett (Brian_jackett)
Junior Member Username: Brian_jackett Post Number: 64 Registered: 12-2002 |
Wish I had bought one instead of a 355, much better value for money. V8 Turbo - Faster, handles better, cheaper to buy , cheaper to maintain. Might not look quite as good but not by much regards | ||
| djmonk (Davem)
Member Username: Davem Post Number: 284 Registered: 1-2002 |
Im 6.0 (mostly torso) an was able to fit in a 99 Esprit. Thanks to Mark Nyman a fellow F-chatter who was nice enough to let me drive his gorgeous car. From what i read before it was roomier than i thought but headroom was tight. So hows the 355 compare in that dept?? | ||
| James Adams (Madmaxx)
Junior Member Username: Madmaxx Post Number: 119 Registered: 11-2002 |
Better be under 6feet tall if you wish to own an esprit  I was down at LCU (Lotus HQ in Atlanta) and got into an 02 esprit... but getting out was the fun part. I'm mostly legs, so I wouldn't have been able to drive the car (steering wheel was between my thighs). If I had time, an older S4s with the GT3 seat conversion, momo offset wheel and other tall-man mods would be fun, but I wasn't about to hack up a new Esprit. MM | ||
| Tom RM (Tgitom)
Junior Member Username: Tgitom Post Number: 117 Registered: 8-2002 |
They used to!! ...with great success | ||
| Alex Lee (Alxlee)
Junior Member Username: Alxlee Post Number: 142 Registered: 4-2002 |
Arthur, yeah, but Lotus doesn't have an F1 habbit to support. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1851 Registered: 6-2001 |
Scott: The lotus is cheaper. That's about all you can say for it. Art | ||
| Alex Lee (Alxlee)
Junior Member Username: Alxlee Post Number: 140 Registered: 4-2002 |
Oh yeah, it's easy to compare to the Esprit and the Ferrari's in terms of numbers; but in reality they are quite different cars. Ideally, I would have the Esprit S4s, a 355 or 360, and of course, keep the Z for when both the European ladies are mad at me! | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 378 Registered: 6-2002 |
Nothing but NOTHING sounds like a Ferrari F355's engine. NOTHING! The Lotus 180* crank V8 is pretty darn nice (and similar) though. Get whichever one keeps you up late at night lusting after it! (DRIVE BOTH before you decide!) Best! Ben. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Junior Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 245 Registered: 8-2002 |
Lotus Esprit is a great car I seriously considered a s-4 or V8 before I got my 328, But Ferrari has better vision out the back without the double rear window where you see ghost images as well as better visabilty, the interior and gauges in the Ferrari seem more unique and better quality, the real issue to me is the engine, Lotus sounds cool but not like a Ferrari as Enzo said he sells the engine the car goes with it, either way you can't go wrong | ||
| Tom RM (Tgitom)
Junior Member Username: Tgitom Post Number: 116 Registered: 8-2002 |
Lotus Esprit great car!! 355 just as nice... its a toss up for you... one thing for sure most likely less maintenance cost! for the Lotus... Every car has its issues usually. dont let every little issue get to you and enjoy each car how it should be enjoyed! but i still say try the esprit!! | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 549 Registered: 2-2003 |
Owing a British car softens you up to accepting the maintenance an exotic takes. I'm paying more for parts for my sedan then you do for your Lotus and thats buying aftermarket OEM whenever I can. Though, I'm getting twice the mileage, sometimes two to three times the mileage. Riddle me that. Cats? $1200 OEM, $800 aftermarket OEM. O2 sensors? $225-235 OEM, $135 aftermarket. Wires? Coil over ignition at $125-175 a coil x6 for me. The rest is the same. Service manual, $125? Is that the cheap manual you get with the car or a workshop manual? My workshop manual was $700-$1200 based on where you could find one. Ouch. Once the factory stops making the workshop manuals for older models, they sell the manuals in PDF format on a CD for $50 each. Now thats some price gouging. I can't imagine a factory workshop manual for a Ferrari. Must be hideously expensive or downright not available. Sunny | ||
| Dan 360 (Dan360)
New member Username: Dan360 Post Number: 33 Registered: 2-2003 |
L ots O f T rouble U sually S erious :-) | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 917 Registered: 3-2002 |
Tillman said it. I've always loved the Esprit, but Ferrari has always gotten the blood going more for me. If I had room for another car, it would probably be the V8. | ||
| Mfennell70 (Mfennell70)
Junior Member Username: Mfennell70 Post Number: 137 Registered: 7-2001 |
The longish term average for my '95 S4s (from 4yrs, 30000 miles ago) is probably $3000/yr for about 7500 miles/yr. Would be less except the PO replace a ton of stuff at dealer prices. The car has never let me down and is nearing 69000 miles. I would argue that the late 4 cylinder cars are less finicky than the V8s though time may prove me wrong. One thing is certain: worst case on a V8 is *far* worse than in a 4 cylinder car. Lotus Parts Prices (bought through Paul Spruell): 2 updated front lower control arms w/ balljoints and and bushings: $693, set of 4 plug wires: $125, O2 sensor: $140, service manual: $125, OEM floor mats: $99. Last quote I got on a catalytic converter: $700 (I hear the 355 guys groaning...). But it still ain't a Ferrari. :-) | ||
| Alex Lee (Alxlee)
Junior Member Username: Alxlee Post Number: 137 Registered: 4-2002 |
I currently have an 95 S4s Esprit, and I really can't complain. Total repairs/maintenance has been less than $1K a year thus far (knock on wood). Things I've had to change since November 2001: Spark plugs $35ish Clutch line $150ish Clutch slave cylinder $100ish Muffler (OK, so I wanted bigger piping) $350ish Other than that, it's been fluid changes ($12 for a Lotus filter and $26 for 7 quarts of Mobile One 15w-50)and check the tire pressure. Course, I do most of the work myself. Jim ("rael eatate"), I'm curious, what years were your cars and what were the problems? I'll have to keep an eye on mine in case anything develops. BTW, from your list you have a nice collection going there, got any pics? Must be one big garage! | ||
| simon grantley (Simonamazona)
New member Username: Simonamazona Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2003 |
I recently sold my Esprit V8 GT and bought a 355 spider. Both are great cars....I think because of the twin turbo's in the Esprit the acceleration is better and smoother. Especially when the turbo's kick in. I've had an Elise, Elan and Esprit before, and I had orderded the Lotus M250 which was cancelled by Lotus as it would not be able to be sold in North America. Not a problem for me as I'm in the UK The 355 is really lovely and you can tell from the interior finish and other things that it is much more expensive. Costs a lot more to put repair & service though! The 355 does have more 'presence'on the road and attracts more interest from people. Simon | ||
| J R K (Kenyon)
Member Username: Kenyon Post Number: 320 Registered: 10-2002 |
Guys, I good freind of mine has a Lotus V8 is great. They ony problem with them is the gearbox and they loose money. The F355 will not loose as much money and I think performance, handling is on par overall. Hard decision..... | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 560 Registered: 6-2002 |
Im thinking of buying a new Elise when they get here. Supposedly coming with a 190hp Toyota Celica Gts motor. Figure id turbocharge it, get maybe 500hp, and with a weight of 2000pds, it would be awesome! | ||
| BJ (Bjkim)
Junior Member Username: Bjkim Post Number: 115 Registered: 10-2002 |
Buy what you want. If you can afford Ferrari, just buy it. However if you can't afford service, don't buy it. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 762 Registered: 8-2001 |
I owned an S4S, and thought it was a great tossible car......adequate power.......corners like it's on rails!!!!!!!!!!!! I now have a TR (great cruiser), a Boxer (a classic). Now I am looking for a Lotus S4S again (something to toss around). The styling of the 348 and 355 do nothing for me......while the 360 is just priced too high at this time. | ||
| jim navarro (Jplotus)
New member Username: Jplotus Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2003 |
I owned 3 lotus cars because lotus took back the 1st one under lemon law. Otherwise i would have owned only 2 of these dead beats. | ||
| mark nyman (Markelizabeth)
New member Username: Markelizabeth Post Number: 25 Registered: 9-2002 |
The Esprit is definitely faster and less expensive to maintain. I have a 99 V8 and love it. However, you aren't nuts for buying a 355. You can't go wrong buying either car. It is simply a matter of preference. As for bang for the buck, the Lotus is better. However, if bang for the buck was the only factor, we would all be driving the new Dodge Neon. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 935 Registered: 10-2001 |
I'd take a 355 over an Esprit but not for any reason other than I love Ferraris; the Esprit is a better car in most regards. I wouldn't trade my Europa for one though, but I'm insane so don't mind me. | ||
| Lucas Taratus (Karmavore)
Junior Member Username: Karmavore Post Number: 217 Registered: 12-2002 |
Thanks Allan | ||
| rob ferretti (Robiferretti)
Junior Member Username: Robiferretti Post Number: 237 Registered: 4-2002 |
i prefer his wife | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 557 Registered: 6-2002 |
Having a 2000 TT V8, i can tell you that the Ferrari 355 seems to be more solidly built. The Lotus is certainly faster, especially with the addition of exhaust and air filters, after which the Lotus runs neck and neck with a 02 Vette Z06. The Lotus feels much more nimble, and brakes better. Seating position and the shift action, leave alot to be desired though. As for attention, the Lotus gets more than my 355 Spider. The Lotus also seems to be pretty solid in the reliability department. There is actually alot of things that can be done to up reliability, and at the same time greatly improve performance, for example intercoolers and blow off valves. Also, just adding the Lotus race ECU adds 100hp. For day to day driving, the Lotus is easier, shifter requires less effort and a/c blows colder. If money is an object, id go for the Lotus. If it isnt, buy the 355. I like them both, but my wife prefers the 355. | ||
| rob ferretti (Robiferretti)
Junior Member Username: Robiferretti Post Number: 236 Registered: 4-2002 |
my friend has a 2001 esprit, if you want to drive the car a lot and drive it hard, it will be cheaper with the lotuss, also it can be made faster much cheaper then the 355b...just intercool it and put a boost controller in it | ||
| Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
Junior Member Username: Scott63 Post Number: 60 Registered: 4-2003 |
Jim, If they were so bad, why did you own 3 of them? I also have been told the V8's are much more reliable.... | ||
| jim navarro (Jplotus)
New member Username: Jplotus Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2003 |
I have owned both. The lotus is a glorified kit car. It is comprised of toyota,gm,hyundai,you name it its in there. I had the misfortune of owning three L cars 94 e,95 e, 91 elan. All terrible reliabilty problems. If you think its expensive to maintain an f car wait and see the bills for the L cars. Two cents worth. | ||
| Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
Junior Member Username: Scott63 Post Number: 59 Registered: 4-2003 |
He has a 2001 V8 | ||
| Lucas Taratus (Karmavore)
Junior Member Username: Karmavore Post Number: 216 Registered: 12-2002 |
The S4, S4s, or V8? They all perform about the same as a 355 but cost very different amounts as well. Luke. | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 664 Registered: 11-2001 |
It's a personal decision. Drive both, buy the one that twists your crank the most. There's no question the Lotus is the bang-for-the-buck winner, but what do you really want to drive? | ||
| Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
Junior Member Username: Scott63 Post Number: 58 Registered: 4-2003 |
I have a friend who thinks I'm nuts for buying a 355B when he says that after owning a 355 for 2 years (and putting a lot of $$ into service) he went for a Lotus Esprit and has never looked back. He claims that the Lotus is faster, handles better and brakes about the same as the 355. He also claims that the service and maintenance are much less expensive. By the way, a used Esprit is about $30K to $50K less than a 355B... What do you guys think?? |