| Author | Message | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
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Carl, The F1 let the driver keep both hands on the steering wheel and use less physical movements. Both of which, like you said, allow the driver to focus on the road ahead. Actually, you still do have to plan your gear changes. It's just less work. I've used the automatic mode just 3 times since I got the car. It works nearly like any other automatic. It's not as smooth as a sedan's automatic but it's still plenty quick. I found that I shift much smoother than the automatic mode. Shifting response is noticeably quicker (nearly instantaneous)in sport mode. The suspension is also stiffened noticeably in sport mode. Steering becomes tighter and more go-kart like. Willis | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
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Willis, I must say I agree with you. The only reason to drive one of Maranello's finest through a city would be if you are searching for good driving roads on the other side of it. We all know that these cars were not made for posing. Concerning the F1-system, I think that it really comes into its stride when tackling back roads since you can focus on your line through curves and not worry about planning your gear changes ahead. So I really do understand why it has become so popular. I must also ask how well the "automatic" mode functions, I never had a chance to test it. Also, would you say that there is a noticeble change in gear changing with the system set to "sport"? | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
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Carl, I agree about the synthetic feel of the F1. However, the more I use it the better the system feels. Especially on the track and twisty back roads. It's just a matter of getting used to something new. There's ABSOLUTELY no reason to drive a Ferrari purposely in a congested city! That's not what these cars are built for! 95 percent of the time, I use my car on country back roads and on the freeways when they're relatively clear. Having just said that, I have been stuck in traffic with the 360 Modena a few times. The car performs flawlessly in stop and go traffic if you drive it properly. It does give you a nudge once in a while to let you know it doesn't like it though. | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
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After having tried a 360 F1 on the Thruxton track south of London, I was left with an impression that it felt somewhat synthetic compared with the manual transmission. I also disliked the way the cluth slipped on a partial throttle in first gear as I was slowly taxing out of the pit lane. I have heard that the F1-system has acquired a reputation of frying cluthes on cars often used in congested cities. It feels more secure to have the possibility of declutching manually. However I must admit that the system gave me a sense of security when hurtling towards a tight corner with excessive speed. I didn't need to worry about my less than polished toe-heel technique or upsetting the car with only one hand on the wheel. Also the sound the engine makes while the systems does perfect blips of the throttle on down shifts is truly thrilling. But I would still go for the manual box and its more "mechanical" feel and the fact that it would save me a packet of money doesn't hurt either. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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I wonder if a Mack Truck has a lot of body roll in the corners...? | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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The best of both worlds? Dog-boxes! No synchromesh, straight-cut gears. Clutchless up-shifts (Driving my friend's Formula Ford at Brooklands, England in May was a revelation to me). Double-clutching on downshifts separates the men from the boys (in my case at that session, I was a toddler! That's okay, I'm thinking once I finish my GT4, I'd like to get an old [pre '60] International or Mack 2 ton truck with one of these non-synchro boxes so I can practice!).  | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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I just read over the other posts, Ernesto and Willis, I hope that you guys aren't thinking that I'm trying to fit you about the F1. I'm not at all. My big thing is to each his own. If you guys like the F1 (which there is a lot to like about) than get the F1, you don't have to justify anything at all about that decision. Just the same someone that gets a 6spd doesn't have to justify that decision. The choice is so close I don't think I'll ever buy a new Ferrari. Which do you pick? The modern F1 that is faster and quite frankly sounds better or the traditional and more connecting 6spd. Who knows. If I went in to order one I would have no idea which one I would get, probably the 6spd, but any given day I could feel differently. I have driven in both so my rambling does have some basis about them, but obviously I haven't lived with them like you guys have. Regarding the F1 tranny it has the same size clutch, gear ratios, etc. The same size master cylinder. I know how the clutch engages and disengages with the motors and cylinders, but what I don't understand is how it changes the gears because there has to be a physical swap of the gears that are engaged. I assume that it is also done with motors or with hydraulics. Is this so? Do you guys have any pictures of the F1 trans? | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
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Bret, nobody hates you. We are just having a lively discussion here, I dont think anyone here is taking any of the comments as personal attacks -- I certainly am not. I respect other's opinions when they tell me that shifting a manual tranny in a Ferrari gives them a better "feel" for the car, or makes them feel more "connected" to the car. I think that's great. Fortunately I have regular access to a manual 355 and I can tell you that I am never going back to a manual. My supra has a manual tranny and is faster than any street Ferrari and I have to agree that it gives me a certain degree of satisfaction to actually shift those gears myself. But I just can help to think how much faster and reliable it would be if it had an F1 tranny. Ah, to dream... | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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Before I read any responses to my last thing about the F1, I was thinking about that two gear downshift as I was reading some about the 360, I think the only way I could be happy with a 360 is to get 2, a manual one and then a challenge car. That's the only way. Or have a manual 360 and the F60. I gotta get a job. Now I'll scroll up and read how everyone hates me because of my comments about the F1 before. | ||
| Octavio Mestre (Alfab4308)
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Ernesto, I don't think anyone is saying the F1 tranny is bad or that innovation should stop. I agree that the goal of a racing team is to win races, not entertain the driver. What is being debated is which transmission is more enjoyable, a purely subjective thing. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
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Ernesto, I don't see any reason for you to continue to rationally defend your case on this topic to those who have obviously made up their minds already about how "bad" the F1 system is. It's like talking to a brick wall. This debate is a no-win situation. The original poster wanted opinions about the F1 transmission. I think we've already provided that from the owners' perspective. | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
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The bottom line is that an F1 is faster, less prone to mistakes, more reliable, and more accurate with the semi-auto tranny than a manual. That equates to better peformance. Better performance is what its all about - winning races and championships. Ferrari introduced the semi-auto to Formula 1 and to road cars. All other F1 teams soon followed, and now the same is happening on the street. I for one hope Ferrari never stops innovating and developing new technologies just because some people are afraid of change. Let's leave static design to those other car companies such as Porsche that have looked the same for the past 30 years, and continue to look the same. Manual trannies are fine for "feel", but true high performance cars should push the envelope and continue to become quicker and faster. By the way, of course the tranny on an F1 car is not the same. It cant ever be the same. But they both get the same job done in their respective environments. Ernesto | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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I just thought about it, I should buy all the older Ferraris that I can, and when Ferrari becomes solely F1 I can charge exorbinant prices to get the good old feeling of a Fcar manual. I gotta get to work here on this. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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And the F1 in Schumacher's car is nothing like the F1 in the 360 or 355. That's like comparing my ten speed Schwinn with a Ducati. We're talking about a manual being shifted by some paddles versus a 7spd, no synchromesh, with a clutch on the steering wheel. And that F1 trans is largely responsible for the boring races (as compared to how they were before) with no passing, no missed shifts, less skill required, and is also part of the reason why the European version of NASCAR (DTM), which uses a manual trans and actually has passing, has surpassed F1 tickets sales even though it has only been back for a couple years now. Don't get me wrong, I love F1. But when they turn into big remote control cars because of aerodynamic advantages, being driven by a computer nerd in the pits will you still be preaching to make them as fast as they can. I hope this is an exaggeration, but still you get the point. Like I said before, whatever makes you happy, so be it. It's really a hard debate here between the two of them, I would definitely put it up there with things like the implications of Truman's decision and Nixon's impeachment. Damn Ferrari, has to confuse us with all these options. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
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As for mid engine cars, while I have had a 328, TR and 348, my old 330 and 400GT front engine cars were still more fun. I'd rather have a 550 or 456 than ten 360s ! | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
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Yes, I've heard Michael Schumacher is saying the same thing - he wants a good old manual tranny in his F1. Heck, it'll be slower and less reliable, but he says the feeling will be better. Screw the World Championships. We cant be afraid of technoligal innovations, especially when they make our Ferraris much better performers. They had the same argument way back in the day when Ferrari started introducing mid-endinge road cars. People went crazy saying "real" Ferraris are front engined, that they would never own a rear engine Ferrari. Now look at us? I guess it always takes some time for technology to catch up to everyone. Much like computers and cellphones. We'll see if the new F60 (or FX or Enzo) will be a video game or the supreme Ferrari for the road. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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I think the manual tranny gives you the feeling that you're connected with the machine. Pushing buttons are for video games. "Don't knock it till you tried it", Okay, will you let me try it in your car to prove me wrong? J I'll go manual till the day I die. | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
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Likewise, I have had my 360F1 for over a year now. Never boring. Still cant get tires of those downshifts. I love beating those 911 Turbos that are supposed to be faster, but because of the quicker shift times (and Tubi and filters) am able to beat. When I get back into a regular manual tranny car, such as my own 800hp Supra or my uncle's 355 or any other car, it feels so archaic and old that its not even funny. But I have to agree that there is a certain degree of satifaction of upshifting a 1-2, or a perfect downshift. I cant wait to get a drive in the new M3 with the F1-style tranny. I would never buy one, but it sounds like fun! Ernesto | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
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Driving my 360 with F1 transmission hasn't been boring at all. Please don't knock it until you've tried it first hand. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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Yeah you could never get too good or loose interest in the passion of a manual. My honest opinion is that they F1 is somewhat of a fad, it might well always be around, but not at this scale. I feel this way for the same reason people buy old British cars, there's more than just going fast to enjoying a car. And unless you take it on the track all day and really know what you are doing, you'll never see a performance difference. Where can you go faster than a manual can on streets nowadays anyway, at least by me a 360 6spd would definitely get you arrested if you pushed it in any respect. But I respect people who get a F1 if that's what they want to drive, what I don't respect (luckily no one hear falls into this) are those people that get them because they don't know how to drive. Even that hot lady in my town drives a 6spd, if she can do it, trust me anyone can. | ||
| Octavio Mestre (Alfab4308)
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I have never driven a car with the F1 transmission but a friend who has says that at first it was neat and interesting but after a while it bored him. Almost like it was too easy. I would definately get the manual transmission if I had good fortune of being in a position to choose. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
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Some F1 stuff that I've heard from various sources: The upcoming 550M will offer F1. The F60, while still not a true sequential box, will be operated by buttons as opposed to paddles. The 360 F1 is the model with some reliability issues, particularly in earlier models. | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
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There was a safety recall on '99 360's to replace the throttle butterfly control rod ends but no tranny recalls otherwise that I know of. Which tranny? Sazech his own! | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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It really disappoints me when I see them having problems with either the F1 or the 6spd. I just feel that it's almost ridiculous that Ferrari can't put together a 6spd manual that works well all the time, everyone else can and everyone else doesn't charge enough to buy a house to get your hands on one. The F1 I have a little leeway for, but still BMW is coming out with a faster shifting F1 trans and I'm sure it will perform flawlessly. I hate it how if you have the money and want to buy a new Ferrari you're still taking a chance on getting a lemon. It's not like they're that close to the edge of technology that it can be used as a reason for errors. I would think that the F1 would wear down a clutch faster than a manual would. The other points are well taken about the perfection of shifts and the technology behind allowing certain shifts. It's weird how when you see a 360, like you said it is almost archaic to see a manual trans, but I still like it. | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
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I bought a Ferrari becuase it is a sports car. If I just wanted to cruise around and relax, I would have bought a Lexus (or a Porsche)... Anything that will make my sports cars a better performer I will take, be it more HP, faster shifting tranny, bigger brakes, etc etc etc. The F1 is simply a better tranny all around. The worst thing that can happen is that the electronics go bad. But the tranny is supposed to be interchangable with the manual model, same one. I think the tranny will last longer on the F1 because every shift is perfect, no missed shifts.. you cant go wrong. Clutch should last longer too. All the 360's I have seen at the dealer with tranny problems are both F1's and manuals - it is mechanical and not electronic. When I drive a manual now it just seems archaic... but I guess the "feel" argument is valid, if a manual makes you feel better, then a manual would be the way to go. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
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I was told that earlier Modenas have transmission problems that were fixed by the 2001 model year. I forgot about the specifics but it could have involved some component redesign and software changes. I haven't had any problems with my F1 system yet. we shall see if the mechanics find anything during the next service interval (coming up very soon). | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
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IMHO the tried and true manual shifter is the way to go. While the F1 may be fun at the track while your car is under warranty, just wait until you have a repair after the warranty expires. A friend of mine at Ferrari of Atlanta said they just did $20,000.00 worth of work on an F1 car and it was working well enough to drive to the shop. High tech equals high cost to repair. | ||
| van mollenberg (Vanny)
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regarding jim E,s comment on the 360-talked to a guy at watkins last week-he had problems with the f1 and they replaced the trans.no futher problems-he also runs his car at alot of track events-also i went for a ride in a 360 with a manual trans. this car was having problems with shifting in higher gears-this car also had a tubi system that i wanted to hear-i bought one-would like to hear more comments about problems with with the 360 trans-also talked to a guy that has a 2001 360 f1 spider he says it shifts smoother than his 2000f1 coupe-who knows-iam going to the ferrari factory in oct.i am sure they will let me know if i ask the question--???? van | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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But you'll never be able to replace the feeling of a manual car and the connection that it brings when driving no matter how much better the F1 can race around a track. I don't buy a sports car to beat people in a race anyway, if I did I would get a 427 cobra and rape everything. I think you'll see more F1 versions, but I just can't see if ever fully taking over. The F60 is different too because it's gonna have a 7spd F1 which is sweet. I wouldn't be surprised if you saw a more race based version for the trans as well, as opposed to the F1s of today which are in essense the same as the manuals when it comes to internals. | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
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I would say that it is the manuals' future that looks a little cloudy. The F60 will only come with the F1 transmission. I bet you anything that future Ferraris will be like this. With the Aston, M3, Toyota, and other cars coming out with their own versions, I have no doubt this is the way of the future. Better performance. Should lead to higher transmission reliability. Ernesto | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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For a 355 take the manual hands down in my opinion, for the 360 it's a little tougher to choose. I have put a lot of thought into this topic and debate with my dad back and forth (he is a strictly manual trans type of guy, not f1, tiptronic, etc) and for a car that I am buying to enjoy out on the roads I would probably take the manual just because I think it is more fun to really connect with the car and it is harder to drive. But for a lot of track time, the f1 is the way to go. If the F1 was a true F1 (no synchro mesh, a clutch on the steering wheel for starting from a stop, etc.) then I would consider it cause that would be a ball, but as it is I just think that it doesn't have the fun of a manual or the function of the automatic, it's somewhere in between. There's nothing like that two gear downshift in an F1 while braking, but there's also nothing like throwing a perfect shift at 8500 rpms in a manual. The other thing I like is that the manual is immortal, there will always be them and a big market for them. Fifty years from now if there are cars, there will still be manuals, F1s the future is a little less clear. They both have there upsides and their downsides, I guess it's just what you want out of it. You'll love whichever one you pick. | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
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Trannies in the manual and f1 should be the same unit. I love my f1, but you cant go wrong either way. The one on my 360 has worked beautifully for the past year. Having driven both 355's and 360's the trannys on the 360 are much smoother and have better feel that on the 355's. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
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My mechanic told me the transmissions on the 360's are bad. He told me this when he showed me a 360 in his shop for transmission work. What I don't know is if it's the FI or the 6 speed that they're having trouble with. I'll see what I can learn. | ||
| paul s (Pes236)
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reliability - i dont know - but for this type of car - I just like manual | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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Yeah, the F1 on the 360 is one generation ahead. (someone had to say it) | ||
| Don996cab (Don996cab)
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My next car will be a ferrari. Should I avoid the F1 and go with the manual transmission. What system is more reliable? Thats is, what transmission will be less likely to break down. And is the F1 on the 360 generations ahead of F355? Thanks! |