| Author | Message | ||
| Scott Gold (Scotttgold)
|
All of these post are just getting worse and worse. Yeh, I'm mad too about the attacks on this country. All I want to do is wipe those responsible off the face of the earth. But you guys bashing religions on a Ferrari chat room just shows no class. I feel sorry for anyone who would post on a Ferrari chat site and try to bash other peoples beliefs just to make theirs look better. Did you get that!...Beliefs! Do you know that word? Belief? It's the core of every religion in this world. Yes, yours too! No one,..I mean no one in this world can prove or disprove any religion. So stop yapping about whos is better. What is religion without belief anyway. So stop talking all this garbage about false gods and right and wrong religions. How dare anyone try to talk sh@t about anothers hopes and dreams and most of all beliefs in order to sway them. Believing in something is the hardest to do in this world. You always have jackasses trying to tell you you're wrong and swaying your beliefs, discrediting your ideals. So stop it! It's hard enough already. Anyone trying to bash the Muslim faith or any other religion, is just like the f@ckers that did this hatefull act to us. It all stems from lack of knowledge and understanding. When you don't understand something then you develop fear of it. Then without that comprehension you develop hate. If you hate or think that religions other than your own are false then you simply suffer from a lack of knowledge and understanding, just like those hateful people who attacked us. All religions foundations are built upon FAITH. Thats also called BELIEVING. Why don't you all try to understand where your beliefs are taking you. But do it somewhere else than this great site. God bless America | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
I don't have a problem with any of the guys who have given comments on the World Trade Center subject but I probably will after I finish my comments. Why are we getting into religious beliefs and cultural differences? This country as well as this chat line has people who came from different cultures and religious backgrounds. We are not going to settle this problem of the attack on us by debating our religious preferences or debaseing another persons culture. If you believe it then keep it to yourself. You really aren't going to change anybodys thinking on how they believe. It just breeds animosity between those who are on this chat line. Some of which have lost loved ones and have been personally affected by this tragedy. Out of respect for those people I think the comments should stop about these personal beliefs that affect others and do nothing but promote arguements. After all who are you trying to impress? Let this subject die and hope justice is served quickly to rid the world of the assholes who did this. Unfortunately that is only the beginning. Like it or not I remain your F.C. friend. Yours Truly, MAGOO | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
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Enough already!!!!!!! | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Sorry that picture does not come up. Let me make one thing clear on my person. I beleive that ALL religions are wrong! They all have missed the point and ALL have used believe to control and oppress against their followers and other believes. Quoting the Bible: You read the book but only read the words. Throughout history you will find that stories were filled with color to make them more interesting so when major events happend and people went through the land to tell these stories over the borders stories changed. The big flood was when the black sea broke open to the Mediterrenean sea, which is hiher and flooded in a flash flood low lying areas in todays Russia. It is believed that there were signs of the break through earlier and that is how the Arch was built. Kind of like a Bomb shelter! The mass feeding with one loaf of bread. Jesus was likely very charismatic and was able to bring people together and give food. Kind of like a modern food drive for desaster aid. He was killed because the stories that were told about this person were too wild for the Romans and were a threat to their empire. Nobody could have been higher than Cesear. You can believe in whatever you want. All religions are peaceful. Yes, all. There is not one that says kill all non believers, although that has and still is practized by a lot of Christians and Jews as well as these "bad" muslims. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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| paul s (Pes236)
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Herbert, i just want to say that you are not alone, i do agree with you. Art 355 I agree with your statement about people using religion as an excuse, and religion has absolutely nothing whatsoever with this act of terrorism or a retaliatory strike. Also I am sure that if we do go to war that their may be colateral damage, some of which may be a real shame, because im sure there are some good people in that country. But dont condem the US goverment for any colateral damage. Do you think the Afganastan goverment doesn't know that innocent civilians may get killed? They know that! And right now they have an opportunity to turn over bin lauden and not go to war. The ball is in their court. Their choice !! One of the reasons this terrorist attack happened is because over the last 25 yrs or so the US has been too nice guy and trusting of everyone we let into this country. And in maintaining our boarders. Now dont anyone twist this into that im saying closing our borders. But individuals need to be looked at harder. Unemployment is at a 4 yr high and one of the security subcontractors for airports has stated that 15% of their workforce is arab. Which i dont have a problem with. But i do have a problem when their next sentence is that most of these arabs working there are in this country on work visas and have lived in this country less than one year. Ever hear of backround check? This should not be allowed by our country. Also to the posts that insinuate that we treat Afganastan so poorly. I saw last night on the news that 6 months ago they had a problem with i think it was opium plants in their country. Or some kinda plant, anyways. Our country gave afganastan 43 million dollars to help them with the problem, more than any other country. Our tax dollars. And not that this terrorism is how they repay us, but the known terrorist who did the act lives in their country, and they wont take our side and give him up. They have an out in this situation, give him up, if they dont, they are asking for war and are willing to accept collateral damage. You people piss me off saying that no way should we do anything if one innocent civilian will get hurt. Dont blame the US for that blame the afganastan goverment, because they are willing to sacrafice the lives of thousands of innocent civilians, in lieu of one known criminal/murderer. Not that we should go after civilians intentionally, and i dont think we will, but im sure that at some time a civilian will get killed, and that is acceptable, at least according to the afganistan goverment. Our goal is to rid the world of terrorist, and everyone here seems to agree that bin lauden should be punished. Where people disagree is what to do now that afganastan has stepped in and said we cant have him. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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HEY GUYS, Who is winning here? The good guys with the white hats or the bad guys with the black hats. No one is winning or has the answer to the problem. What the hell is going on? Give it a rest. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
Guys: There is no doubt that the folks that did this should be punished. By death by torture. There is also no doubt that those people who live near those who did this should not be punished. The discussion about "collateral damage" is another way to say "kill" or "murder" innocents. That is wrong. Those who advocate that are potential murderers. They are not rational nor moral. There is also a discussion about various religious issues, with one side pointing out that certain religions are somehow imperfect or responsible. It's all the same religion: The Jews started it, the Christians contend that Christ was the messiah, the Muslims contend that Mohammed ws the messiah. Same tune, different keys. All those religions are attempting to say the same thing: how to behave in an organized society. Given the "10 commandments" and other pronouncements, all of these religions are attempting to regulate behavior to a standard required for organized civilization. People who use their religion to express their hatred for others aren't following the precepts of their own religion. They're using their religious beliefs to justify their immoral behavior. Food for thought: All of these religions were founded at a time when our techology was near to the stone age. The founders didn't know about string theory, relativity, etc. In fact, given the statements contained in the bibles and the Koran, they didn't know •••• about how the place was constructed. The foreword on Hawking's "A brief hisotry of time" by Carl Sagan states that Hawkings described a university where there was no place for a diety. In short guys, you are following technology that is obsolete and provably so. Your Ferraris wouldn't exist under that technology. Let's stick to what we know: cars. Art | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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War is not, nor has ever been pretty. If anyone thinks we can rid the world of the cancer that infects it without collateral damage is fooling themselves. If you believe the Bible, even God killed almost everyone in a flood to rid the earth of evil. We as a nation have given and given until there is no more to give and you say we have not given enough? B.S. By the way I am happily married to the same person since 1970 and have a 29 year old son who ia also very happy. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
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Martin, I'm not Jewish although I worship one. It's not a secret how the muslin faith was founded. Read the story of Isaac and Rebecca and her handmaiden. While I agree with you that not all muslins are bad people, they do all worship a false god and are doomed for hell. I bet those muslin terrorist in those planes were surprised about 1 second after the crash when they saw their new host for eternity. Hint, it wasn't GOD. | ||
| Mike Michelsen (Mike007)
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You guys (and most americans 88 %) are now at the same level as Hitler and his folks where in 39. Congratulations. The sickest of all is this Herbert •••• who will (hopefully seperated from his wife and children so god will help) end up in hell. Who did that to you! I will pray for your soul because Jesus loves us all. | ||
| Mike Michelsen (Mike007)
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You guys (and most americans 88 %) are now at the same level as Hitler and his folks where in 39. Congratulations. The sickest of all is this Henbert •••• who will (hopefully seperated from his wife and children so god will help) end up in hell. Who did that to you! I will pray for your soul because Jesus loves us all. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
Herbert, Your analogy is incorrect, some of the greatest advances in medicine have recently allowed the targeting of the bad cells without harming the good cells. It is quite disturbing to hear things like what you have said, the intentional killing of innocent people is not OK with me, for then we sink to the same level as our enemy. I truly disagree with your opinion on this matter. The best response will be one that is well thought and leaves emotion behind, failure to think here will be a disaster beyond what we saw last week. | ||
| Lawrence Michaels (Lxmichaels1)
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To all of us: I have always thought and subscribed to the notion that understanding the HOW & WHY of things in the universe and the world makes for an interesting perception and comphrehension of matters. Please take a look at these: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/afghanistan/index.html There is some reading here but well worth it. and http://www5.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/07/19/afghan.ban/ (see country profile and then people & profile) For me it sure paints a better picture. I know so much more about this part of the world than I did last week. I think it is important that Americans understand the foundations of this war we are embarking on and see past the events of last week. >> Larry | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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ROB HELP SPELLCHECK!!!!! | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Herbert; those that harbor the enemy should face the same music. No question. The question though is who is making that decission. Certainly not the people living in Afghanistan. We would not even think twice and accuse the Cubans in general for their regime, would we? Unfortunately if we are totally truthful with everything, the US and all other countries have not taken an innitiative to restore the Afghan economy and lend aid when the russians left. That would have prevented the Thaliban from taking over the land and infecting it with bad thoughts. We are partially to blame for this ourselves. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
|
Martin, I agree with you in that we all like to stereotype a lot and that this is definitely a negative human characteristic. The reason I say human is because no matter where you are on the face of this earth, people behave and respond to issues like this in a very similar manner. The terrorist think that we all are guilty for the sins of a few, and we are now exercising the same type of judgement over people related to them by race, religion, etc. I personally have several muslims friends from various countries, and I can honestly tell you, they are as shock and hurt as most americans are of what is happenning, but on top of that they have to deal now with the stereotyping and bigotry that people are imposing upon their lives. Gentlemen, this is a global tragedy; not only americans die last week. Based on some TV and online Newspaper estimates, more than 300 Brits are reported missing or dead, over 873 Puerto Ricans are among the missing/dead, Japanese, Koreans, etc. Even innocent muslims were killed last week. People from all these countries are suffering for their love ones as much as we are. Furthermore, Islam, the religion, does not encourage this type of acts. Islam has as its roots the same foundation and principles that Judaism, Catholicism, and consequently protestant have. In fact, if I am not mistaken, the Old Testament forms part of the Coran, their version of the Bible, in its entirety. Hence they follow the same 10 Commandments, etc. that all these religions follow. I am not expert, but I will venture to say that the lack of education of the masses, the third world country economic, and perhaps social, status, and the failure to divide religion from political, and social matters have a great deal to do with the way issues are considered in most, if not all, middle east countries. Anyway, I think I am getting lost in my own thoughts. I apologize for the dissertation. | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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To cure cancer you take chemotherapy that kills all the cells, good and bad. You then restore the good cells. It makes you sick when you do it, but if not, you will die. If you harbor the enemy then you are also the enemy. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Is that a virgin Mary? | ||
| Danny R. West (Dan_West348ts)
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Guys, Look at this! Talk about an EVIL act! This is crazy. If you don't believed it go to www.cnn.com . Click on "video...second attack". Play the video and pay attention. Dan  | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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One more thing that bothers me a lot: All Moslims are terrorists All Blacks are criminals All Whites are racists All Germany are Nazis All Jews are Scheisters We all tend to stereotype a lot. Let me assume that most people on this chat are white. You would all feel offended if a black person makes the assumption that all white people should be killed for what they did in the 40s to 70s to black Americans. Damn straight, it was just a few Christian fanatics that did that. See how wrong statements can be? | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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I did not want to post on this subject again and here I am finding myself in need to say more. How right that statement is. It needs a lot of thought to revenge this act. Muslims and the Islam is not at fault. I hear a lot of people say: killing innocent people is just okay because they (whoever THEY are) killed thousands in New York. Wouldn't that put us down on the same level? We would actually resort to terrorist methods. We would be the terrorists. There is no noble cause. This is about justice and that does not mean an eye for an eye. Lets kill Bin Laden and those people responsible. Yes, but knowingly accepting collateral damage (wasn't that Tim McVeighs line?) can not be the option. I would still have him killed if he is in a crownd and others would die just to get to him, but that can not be the acceptable method. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
An Afghan-American speaks > You can't bomb us back into the Stone Age. We're > already there. But you can start a new world war, and > that's exactly what Osama bin Laden wants. > - - - - - - - - - - - - > By Tamim Ansary > Sept. 14, 2001 | I've been hearing a lot of talk about > "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn > Owens, on San Francisco's KGO Talk Radio, conceded > today that this would mean killing innocent people, > people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but > "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. > What else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV > pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do > what must be done." > And I thought about the issues being raised especially > hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though > I've lived in the United States for 35 years I've > never lost track of what's going on there. So I want > to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from > where I'm standing. > I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama bin > Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people > were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree > that something must be done about those monsters. > But the Taliban and bin Laden are not Afghanistan. > They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The > Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took > over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political > criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think > Nazis. When you think bin Laden, think Hitler. And > when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the > Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that > the Afghan people had nothing to do with this > atrocity. They were the first victims of the > perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come > in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats' > nest of international thugs holed up in their country. > > Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow > the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, > exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years > ago, the United Nations estimated that there are > 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan -- a country > with no economy, no food. There are millions of > widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows > alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land > mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. > These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people > have not overthrown the Taliban. > We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan > back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. > The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans > suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? > Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. > Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their > infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and > healthcare? Too late. Someone already did all that. > New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. > Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In > today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they > have the means to move around. They'd slip away and > hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled > orphans; they don't move too fast, they don't even > have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping > bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the > criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it > would only be making common cause with the Taliban -- > by raping once again the people they've been raping > all this time. > So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me > now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way > to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. > When people speak of "having the belly to do what > needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having > the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly > to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent > people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's > actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just > because some Americans would die fighting their way > through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much > bigger than that, folks. Because to get any troops to > Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would > they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan > would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just > stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with > a world war between Islam and the West. > And guess what: That's bin Laden's program. That's > exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read > his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He > really believes Islam would beat the West. It might > seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the > world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion > soldiers. If the West wreaks a holocaust in those > lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to > lose; that's even better from Bin Laden's point of > view. He's probably wrong -- in the end the West would > win, whatever that would mean -- but the war would > last for years and millions would die, not just theirs > but ours. > Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone > else? > - - - - - - - - - - - - > About the writer > Tamim Ansary is a writer in San Francisco, and the son > of a former Afghani politician. > | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
Hi Guys, I haven't been on for a while but reading this last comment by William Huber is enough to see and feel the loss and pain that many feel as a result of this tragedy. Out of respect for these people and for the tragedy that has occured I feel that we should keep our comments to ourselves RE: How we see other cultures, and our personal feelings about the entire situation. We are just trying to out argue the other guy over such small subjects that lead to bitterness. We will not solve this problem here but we can address it on a level of intelligence and not hate. You may say "Mind your own business" but read the last thread and there are much deeper emotions then our opinions and how we feel about revenge. I for one want to see these assholes who are responsible wiped off the face of the earth, but I know that I will have to wait until our Gov't acts and hopefully is able to rid us of these murderers. We won't accomplish anything by argueing with each other, only upsetting those who have been hurt directly by this tragedy. My suggestion is that we lighten up and make our comments positive rather than negative. My opinion only, and as William said "There are many angry postings here." "PEACE". MAGOO | ||
| William_Huber (Solipsist)
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I have lost a good friend. I wish I knew what to say but there are too many angry postings here. I've started get my head straight, I've had nightmares about being trapping in the towers with thousands of lives in panic. Not knowing were to go. I this really hit me hard. Still walk around like in a daze if I was stoned, like it was all a dream. I paniced myself into vomiting. Sorry, but I lost a good friend & I have a pain thats making me sick to my stomach. Pure shock. Please prey for all families & friends, I just hope the worst is not yet to come. God speed Sean, TEXAS will miss you & never be the same again without you. There is more to life than that little high priced FIAT. Peace. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
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On this day of all days we should remember that some 65 years ago a goverment began a campaign to make it citizens believe that a certain religion and its followers were evil. The success of that campaign resulted in the murder of 6 million people by that goverment. The people of Islam are not evil, do not condemn them as a group for the behavior of a few, to do so makes you no better then those we defeated some 57 years ago. " Those that forget the past are condemned to repeat it" President Bush made the point today that the people of Islam are people of peace and that to attack them because of a few fanatics is wrong. | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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Mike, I resent that remark, But I gave 6 years of my life in the Military for your right to say it. | ||
| Adam Goldman '86 TR (Icnsltmfg)
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For those of us that are Celebrating the New Year L'Shana Tova, and hope this New Year will bring us closer with friends and Family. With the memories of our felow Americans, fallen heros, foreign friends who were on our soil, and those that will go into battle in the future to ensure the freedom we sometimes take for granted, this will be a somber New Year, but G-D willing the last that brings this nation and it's people pain. Adam | ||
| Danny R. West (Dan_West348ts)
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Guys, Look at this! Talk about an EVIL act! This is crazy. If you don't believed it go to www.cnn.com . Click on "video...second attack". Play the video and pay attention. (The image is too large... Rob I will EMAIL you the image. If you could place it here I would appreciate it.) Dan | ||
| Mike Michelsen (Mike007)
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Hopefully those kind of posts do not reflect the intelligence in this country. You should not watch Jerry Springer during the day or wank your brain out of your head during working hours. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
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Here is another interesting image:  and an interesting article from a former Middle East Correspondent for the Wall Stree Journal: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-091601brooks.story Caribe. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
|
Glad to hear you are OK. We met at Watkins Glen last year during the labor day event. I had the maroon F355 with the Challenge wing that you were interested in buying. I was also at the FOW/Algar event at Summit in May in my M5. I remembered you worked for CSFB and saw that they had an office at the WTC but figured you worked in the midtown building. Glad your OK! I am still in shock, I lived and worked in NYC for two years and my entire family is from NYC and Long Island. No family members were injured but I lost two friends in the WTC. Regards, Jon P. Kofod 1995 F355 Challenge | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
|
Wow!! I have not been following this thread. I would like to thank all of you for your concern. My wife and I are fine - physically. Otherwise, we are shken up a bit. Its nice to know people are thinking of you, and I would like to say thanks again. | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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If you right click on the picture you can save the picture on your desk top. | ||
| Steve (Steve)
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Herbert where did you get the picture of the Statue of Liberty? Can you please give me the URL. so I can get a copy. Thanks Steve | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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If it comes down to me and my family or them, then YES!!! | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
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Yes. We should. Thanks Mike. Ernesto | ||
| Mike Michelsen (Mike007)
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Every "fucking" day 24,000 (twentyfourthousand) people die because of hunger. Many of them in Afghanistan. Do you want to kill those motherfuckers? Or maybe lets try some nuclear bombs to kill all of those fucking muslems. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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I cancelled that last post, I don't know why it still went through, go figure, but here it is. On that topic, a concept design for the new WTC.  My dad took these from the building he's putting up a couple months before and then the day of it.  | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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On that topic, a concept design for the new WTC.  My dad took these from the building he's putting up a couple months before and then the day of it. | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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 | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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The History Channel has been having some great programs about all of this lately. I've been watching it all day while doing other stuff. They also have some quotes that'll send shivers down your spine (or maybe it's just kind of cool hear today, hmm)from various presidents that have faced tough times. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Thanks Martin, Good to be back. Magoo | ||
| paul s (Pes236)
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bill - if you mean by recalled, called in as a reserve - good luck, stay safe, our prayers will be with you, you are a very brave person and i am 100% behind you as i am sure most of us are. If the tiaban are financing and supporting known terrorist yes then they are part of the problem and i would completely support the attack - why attack the entire country some may say - well if the US goverment gave me $ 500.00 and told me to buy some ammo and a plane ticket to afganastan then the goverment would be just a guilty as me - that may be a very simplified version but im sure you get the point | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
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Just spoke with Sam, he is OK. He says to thank everyone for their concern!!!' Paul Sloan | ||
| Bill Shumaker (Gabriel)
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>the Taliban vowed revenge ``by other means'' should Washington attack, >and their fundamentalist clerics used Friday prayers to call on the World's >Muslims to unite against the United States. ``Oh Muslims of the world, we should unite together if the United States attacks us,'' one cleric told the faithful at a Kabul mosque. The theme was repeated across the capital. ``America has announced war against us for its enmity with Allah and for imposing its corrupt ideology,'' said another sermon broadcast on loudspeakers *Oh Yes, only .01% of any muslims are dangerous and violent. How stupid of me not to see that* >significantly, the statement by the Taliban's leader -- who rarely gives interviews, has never been filmed or photographed and has met just two non-Muslims in his entire life -- failed to condemn the U.S. attacks or even sympathize with relatives of the victims. The Taliban's official spokesman was even more defiant. ``We will take revenge if America attacks through different means,'' Abdul Hai Mutamaen told reporters. I'm sure that the leaders of entire NATIONS are NOT typical of 'ordinary' muslims, now are they? That notwithstanding, I am being recalled, and am leaving country tonight. It was good to know you all, even if for such a brief period. This will be my last post until I return; should that happen. Keep the faith and goodbye. -Bill | ||
| paul s (Pes236)
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Tim 88 - i dont know where you got your info from but if its true then im happy - "the people celebrating in NJ have been deported " also to anyone that may have taken some offenses to my earlier post - my view also does come from living in the per capita ( per ten-thousand people ) murder capital in the USA - so maybe what i see is worse than what may be in your close by city | ||
| Leonardo Soccolich (Lens)
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Made it to work again today, although its raining heavily. Its actually a relief in a way, because I don�t have to glance out my window and see that appalling cloud of dust. Yesterday was very nerve-wracking, because there were numerous bomb threats. Buildings within one block of mine were evacuated. Many cross-streets were closed, so that some of my co-workers could not get to the office. I logged on to Formula1.com this morning and almost lost it at the sight of Schumacher�s Ferrari. All sponsorship logos have been eliminated, and the nose is painted black. McClaren has donated $10 million dollars to a childern�s relief fund. I know its a difficult choice, but in a way I�m glad the race is on this weekend. The best way to show those responsible that we can�t be cowed is to jump right back into some measure of normalcy. I�ve been getting eMail from friends, family, and acquaintences all over the world. They are all shocked and angered by what happened. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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Sam hasn't logged on since 8/30. | ||
| John A Arends (Jarends)
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Wow, to be a hippy again, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. I would not look good in my bell bottoms any more. It may be that our missing friends had their email taken out or their computers or phone/data lines. I must call around the country and overseas daily from NJ and have had a very hard time connecting and Tuesday, not at all. Lets hope that's all it is. John | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
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Sam lives up by central park (uptown) and works for Merill Lynch in NJ. He should be OK unless my chance he was downtown. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Great to have you back Magoo! Anybody else missing but Matt and SamNYCFERRARIS? | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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HEY GUYS, THANKS FOR YOUR CONCERN. I have been out of town for a while. When I left things seemed to be going along quite well on the F.C. line. After reading these threads it is obvious that shock has taken its toll on everyone. Things have been said here that really have not been meant to sound as they have come out. But one comment leads to another and look what happens. The reaction here is one that the terrorists try to create amongst their enemies, creating a final result of hatred between each other. There has not been one comment about hating "OLD GLORY". The love of her and what she stands for is what keeps us and this country strong and alive. Everyone is under shock, if not showing it, then subconsciously. The love for our flag and our country has been violated and has pissed off all of us. It shows in the comments of how one lashes out at another. Put all of that "pissed off" energy to good use by staying strong, thinking clearly and not breaking under the stress of this tragedy. Remember as it has been said "UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL." BRGDS. MAGOO | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
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Some of you may know Matt Karson, he drives a F355 Challenge (Sarah Wahls old car). He works as a NASDAQ trader for CSFirstBoston. They had an office in the WTC, though it's not their HQ which is in midtown. Not sure if he worked in that office. Has anyone heard from Matt?? Hope you're ok Matt!!! Regards, Jon P. Kofod | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
To answer Rob's post of Magoo's last time here at FC, I spoke with him through email last week, he mentioned he had company down from Maryland and was busy entertaining them. Magoo lives in Florida. Who I'm concerned about is SamNYCFERRARIS... | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
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The invitation still stands for pizza guys. Let me know. | ||
| Ron Dallas (328infoseeker)
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I did my best to change the subject last night but could not! This is Ferrarichat.com PLEASE take your extreme views to another sight that is for this type of discusion. I will not find the sight for you but they are out there! This thread should be about support, learning from those localy in New York, etc... Thank you in advance | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
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I think I am going to have to stop reading this topic now, I am getting depressed. I can not watch anymore TV or Radio. I hope it is normal to throw up from being so sad, my stomach hurts like a b*tch. The only thing i want to hear is that we have found 4766 people alive in the rubble. -kenn | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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This is to what rob said- how can you say that only 00.01% of arabs are bad people? I would guess that more like 70% of them are bad. But hotse 70% are mostly in the middle east. not too many here are bad. (ON A SIDE NOTE-- those guys celebrating in NJ have been deported!!) Im not just reacting with emotion either. I had written a much longer post but accidently hit the back button and lost it, but heres what i actually feel like typing again. to what u gys said b4, i know the media and govt try to brainwash us. )for all we know, they might have been behind all thisjust to make us hate arabs) I also dislike this govt very much bc it is as someone said, racist. i have proof of that if anyone wants to see it. But the thing is, who cars about that now. This country must retaliate. 2 of new yourk's tallest buildings are gone bc a lot of arabs bent on furthering their cause knocked them over (even though they stood for corporate greed) . I have to go now, but i will continue this laterr. this has only made us stronger. i have never seen so many people flying the flag. I am proud to have one on my car! | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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This is to what rob said- how can you say that only 00.01% of arabs are bad people? I would guess that more like 70% of them are bad. But hotse 70% are mostly in the middle east. not too many here are bad. (ON A SIDE NOTE-- those guys celebrating in NJ have been deported!!) Im not just reacting with emotion either. I had written a much longer post but accidently hit the back button and lost it, but heres what i actually feel like typing again. to what u gys said b4, i know the media and govt try to brainwash us. )for all we know, they might have been behind all thisjust to make us hate arabs) I also dislike this govt very much bc it is as someone said, racist. i have proof of that if anyone wants to see it. But the thing is, who cars about that now. This country must retaliate. 2 of new yourk's tallest buildings are gone bc a lot of arabs bent on furthering their cause knocked them over (even though they stood for corporate greed) . I have to go now, but i will continue this laterr. this has only made us stronger. i have never seen so many people flying the flag. I am proud to have one on my car! | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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I just returned from Manhattan, I was 35 blocks from WTC. take my advice, DONT GO TO MANHATTAN. The WTC came down & 10,000 people died but thats just the start. There is a LARGE toxic cloud filled with asbestos, fiberglass, human waste, blood, & God knows what else. I think people r going to be getting sick in NYC for months BTW I went down & volunteered at the fire station to help but they told me they have enough manpower now so I just walked around trying to find people to help around Times Square & north | ||
| Danny R. West (Dan_West348ts)
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You are right Doug. | ||
| bill van dyne (Doc)
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Oops---sorry to interupt your topic! This was my first message on Ferrari Chat and I meant to start a new discussion and hit the wrong heading. My apologies | ||
| bill van dyne (Doc)
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I'm considering buying my first Ferrari and am toying with the idea of a late 70's 308, primarily due to cost. Are there any particular quirks or frequently observed problems which I should be aware of in cosidering the purchase of these year 308's ? Any hints /tips would be much appreciated. Athough I haven't owned a Ferrari before, I am a true fan and have been a regular reader of this wonderful forum. Keep up the great work, guys! | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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We never did decide if we were going to have Pizza at Freds after qualifying. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
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We are all fortunate here, we live another day to post on FC! In fact, I saw a BMW 507 and a Racing Porsche 917 today, for the first time. I personally think that for all the planning the training these guys had, they allowed themselves to be caught to easily with aribic stuff. I think they are leaving us false clues. They have worked to hard to leave a paper trail that they didn't want. | ||
| Doug Meredith (Doug308)
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Just imagine if the mastermind(s) of this tragic event was on this board. It is possible. This is exactly what they would want to see happen. Instead of banding together and becoming stronger, we have started fighting each other by calling each other names, bashing religeons and faiths as well as cultures of others. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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God Bless America | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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No more from me. over and out on this subject! | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Frank, what an I say.... I have just written a whole reply to you and deleted it. Your comments are not worth replying to but to say:...another religious deranged fanatic. People with these believes are the terrorists that destroy our nation. If you believe that your religion is the center of the world you are part of the problem, not a solution. There is no right or wrong. The Islam is not filled with hate, not even close. No religion is! Not even yours. "Thou shall not kill"...yet Israel bombs every day and kills with bombs and guns. Your Jesus did not fight back when slapped in his face, he brought forward his other cheek. The exact problem of ALL religions. People taking the parts from their religious books that suits them. If you are a true Jew and put yourself equal to Jesus Christ you will not need to defend yourself. Before defending yourfself you rather die on the cross. Read and UNDERSTAND the bible. The WHOLE book! Sorry to have ended with a long message again. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
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All this talk of relative morality worries me. There is a right and wrong that is not based on your beliefs or religion. It's intrinsic and I'm convinced that even these muslim extreminist know it, they just don't care because they follow a false religion full of hate. So to say "to each his own" is giving credit to something that is wrong simply not to piss someone off. Israel is the center of the world and always will be. It is mentioned in the Bible as the homeland of the chosen people of God, the Jewish people. America must protect Israel even if it means the destruction of our own culture. To do otherwise will result in the destruction of our soul which is far more valuable than our culture. Remember Jesus was a Jew and he taught peace and love, not hate and war. If you read the Bible you will discover that the whole muslim cult was found by the bastard child of Issac and his wife's handmaiden against the direct command of God. Hence, the cult was founded on lying and unfaithfulness and remains so today. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
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Hey Rob, can you delete this thread? It's gotten WAY out of hand.... | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Paul, apparently you have a problem here. Your attacks are way over the top. You need to cool down. You may have other problems with Bret but his comments can hardly release or make your comments acceptable. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Bret; I always read your comments. Although I do not agree with some I still want to read them. Different oppinions are what makes this country so interesting. Different cultures, different languages (although I agree all should speak at least one to communicate), different cloths, different cars. The acceptance is what makes us greater than terrorists that have no acceptance for others that do not think or act the same way they do. Keep on chatting. One persons attacks should not keep you of this site and people that do accept your comments, although may disagree. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
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Bret, Someday your going to open your mouth to the wrong person at the wrong time and you are going to have your head handed to you. You are a Idiot who has no clue about what you say or the real world and the people who live in it. Your posts on this matter are insulting and degrading and I truly hope that you figure it out before someone someday kicks the living crap at out of you I don't care if you were the first or second post on FC, do me a favor sell your car and by a Yugo, I am sure there is room for you at YUGO CHAT.com. As for your e-mail to me, you may come from one of the richest towns in NJ with the best school district but that does you no good if you live under a rock, you obviously never attended the school since you have no clue about history. | ||
| Adam Goldman '86 TR (Icnsltmfg)
|
Bret; I do not think anyone is ganging up on you, I think they / I were just very taken aback by the comments and the tone that you took. I think many of us at your age might have said things in a way that had our mouth talking ( or typing ) prior to our mind thinking. I think with some maturity and several years after school in the working environment, you will begin to take a deep breath, go for a walk, smoke a cigarette, prior to sending any e-mail, posting, or even speaking until one calms down a bit. I too have lost some colleagues, and had many close scares on Tuesday, including myself who has one of my Clients at 1 WFC. .....Only a fool does not learn from his mistakes. Adam | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
|
It's ironic how I called this happening. No where in my posts was there anything about the Jews, Hispanics, Africans, etc. because I don't have any problem with any of them. THE ONLY THING I COMMENTED ON WAS A COUNTRY'S NATIONAL POLICY (I went back and checked all my posts to make sure). I'll admit that what I said was heated, but two planes crashed and 10,000 people died 5 minutes away from where I live and have grown up my whole life. I've had friends die this week and quite a few including my father come very close. I would hope you would cut me some slack. This is what Paul wrote me in response to me asking why he thought that I was attacking him: "You are a f&cking @sshole and almost everyone on FC agrees, crawl back in your hole, you are a moron as well as a Bigot." Well I'm assuming that he talked to you guys about this so I wont post anymore. I've been her since the beginning (3rd person to post, 2nd if you don't include Rob) to talk about my car which I love, occasionally things get sidetracked, but I'm not gonna come talk about it with people that don't want me, it's that simple. | ||
| david schirmer (David)
|
I just read this statement on Speedvision site. Nice gesture by Ferrari. Haven't felt much like chatting these past few days. My best wishes to everyone and their families. David "Ferrari has taken the decision to show that it shares a sense of grief with the American people, with whom it has always felt close ties," the team said in a statement today. "Therefore, this weekend, for the Italian Grand Prix, with the full agreement of its sponsors and suppliers, as a mark of respect, its cars will carry no logos relating to its commercial and technical partners. For Ferrari and for its partners, Sunday�s race will be a purely sporting event with no commercial implications, nor will it be a joyful event. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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I sent them an e-mail, will let you know when I hear something | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Got it, still think it is a good idea! | ||
| paul s (Pes236)
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danny west that is awesome !!!!! Mark i completely respect your opinion believe it or not and i definately believe that you have at least somewhat of the wrong impression of me but my opinion is to what you said is things are different now than when your mom and grandfather came here, the city near me you have to be scared to drive through, there are shootings every week, but 25 years ago i was 6 walking thru that town to the toy store and to city park with my grandmother - you cant do that now and its a shame and thats what upsets me - but i do think it is your responsability to learn the language when being or applying for citizenship - i will not give on that one.And i've said it before i do not blanket people as you hinted its the individual that counts - and i believe that these individuals should be looked at harder because somewhere during the last 25 yrs my city has gone to hell. And if your an Arab who lives here and is cheering about this i stand by my guns - get out and if the FBI believes that you are associated with a terrorist group and live here - I think they should make you leave because you are a security risk. Look at schools nowadays they have a zero tolerance policy ( at least around here ) for anything that even resembles the smallest weapon. And that KKK stuff i dont agree with as you might think I do. Im sure there were many beautiful, wonderful non-white police and fire fighters who tragically lost their lives who all were a great loss to this country and will dearly be missed by all and anyone who lives here and cheers about it ( like some arabs living in new york ) GET OUT | ||
| Danny R. West (Dan_West348ts)
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Martin, Picture an extended middle finger when you view the graphic. Dan | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Dan, nice but not high enough! I think we should tint the windows in the american flag. That would look cool and send a message! I am very worried about Margoo as well. His silence is strange! Rob, send them an e-mail on behalf of all of us! Adam and Mark; well said! It is great to have good people on this chat. | ||
| Danny R. West (Dan_West348ts)
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 | ||
| Mark (Mnmark)
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Well, if 97 of you posted something, I should too, right? How many of us here would have never been here if we kicked out all people who speak another language? My Mom arrived in this nation to better herself by attending University. She didn't speak much English. OOOPS. Kick her out? She never did get a job, either. My Dad's Grandpa arrived in this nation to try to eke out a better living for himself and his family. He didn't speak English. OOOPS. Kick him out? My way of thinking, the only person on this chat board telling anyone to leave had better have a last name or Running Bear or Blue Arm. As for terrorists, better look in your own backyard before pointing across the Atlantic to N. Ireland or the 'ragheads' in the Mideast. We got our own ragheads, instead of rolling it into a turban, it is white and pointy. Instead of bombing a crowded Israeli market they blow up crowded black churches. Difference between him and me? Well, he works across the street, lives in my neighborhood, might have a Ferrari in his garage -- might be on this chat -- but he has a little white outfit and a big secret in his closet. He isn't one of those wacko Tim McVeigh types, with an FNC, Galil or AR-15, conducting paramilitary excercises in Montana. Difference between him and the muslim extremist? The muslim hides behind the cowardice of suicide. This fella hides behind the cowardice of a hood. Thanks for reading and allowing me my opinion. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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Magoo hasn't logged on since 9/4. Matt Karson (Squid Racing) hasn't logged on since 9/6. I'm pretty sure Matt works in NYC financial district. | ||
| Danny R. West (Dan_West348ts)
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Adam, Very well said! Dan | ||
| Adam Goldman '86 TR (Icnsltmfg)
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I just do not understand why people in this room cannot make informed comments. I am Jewish by religion, English ( several generations ago ) by background but first and foremost an American. I have traveled around the world and lived in both industrialized countries as well as war torn 3rd world nations. I have been shot at in Israel and South Africa. Years ago as a medic I put my life on the line in Newark to save people ( yes PEOPLE ). I have met good people, and bad people from all over the country and world. I have friends who are from all backgrounds and religions, including a close friend from Syria ( I was worried for he and his family after the attack due to possible bulk Arab hatred.) I have learned to be tolerant of anyone who may have different views of myself as long as they discuss it in an informed manor ( informed not intellectual.) I judge individuals not groups. Am I cautious in hot spot areas ( JoBerg South Africa, Norther Ireland, Newark, Hebron) Yes, but that does not mean that everyone in that area is bad or out to harm me, many are afraid of being harmed themselves. We all need to remember that what makes this Country great is the mixture of backgrounds and religions of everyone but the smallest fraction of a percent that was native to this land. I am not opposed to immigration into this Country regardless of skill or intellect as long as they have a desire to work hard and be a productive member of this Country. Many of out great business, military, or educators came from a poor immigrant background that worked hard to give their family everything that they did not have growing up. Let us not get sucked into the same mentality that effects the very people who caused this very sad day. Just so everyone knows.... I am a moderate republican, who lives in NJ, Works in NYC and the world, is a Conservative Jew, a supporter of Israel,a Life member of the NRA, and VERY VERY PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN. You cannot always judge a person just by one's heritage or religious beliefs. Adam | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
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Bret, Crawl back under your rock. Paul | ||
| Danny R. West (Dan_West348ts)
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We have not heared from some folks for a few days, Folks like Magoo and some others. They may be stranded if they were traveling. Does anyone know of any of our fellow posters that may have worked in WTC? Dan | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
|
Paul, I emailed you to talk about this more, but the fact stands that I have no clue who you are so for me to be directing my posts at you is a little unrealistic, how could I direct them at someone that I don't know and who hasn't posted here in this thread other than to say that you're not paul s. If you're from Israel, sorry for saying that, but I didn't know anyone from FC was living in Israel right now... Rather than come out and bash me with a personal attack (when everything that I have said is about a NATION, not a person or group of persons) when you don't even know me. You'd get a lot more done teaching people about Israel than you do by making uncalled for remarks about them. I said if before and I'll say it again, fighting about the policies of a nation is a healthy debate, making personal attacks is not. You can look through all of my posts, in not one of them is any of your names mentioned in a negative way or is it implied. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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United we stand (and drive)...divided we fall ! | ||
| paul s (Pes236)
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ok nick - maybe somehow the problem started long ago - i dont know why if they are the only ways to get in, that i commonly see in PA on construction sites - Primarily drywall finishers and painters that i cannot communicate with because they dont speak english, not just one guy I mean the whole crew of 6 or 8 and these arab communities in New york cheering about this unspeakable act - somewhere the system failed there - i just cant understand why they are here if thats how they feel or how we left them here in the first place - and i would love to get your opinion on the 3 million mexicans that bush wants to bring here - yes i admit there will be a few people that we are lucky to have - but what about the rest - unemployment is at a 4 year high - ford is constantly closing US plants and building new ones on Mexico - so if they are the only ways to perminantly reside here - ok - but maybe we should kick some out - during the LA riots they arrested people merely from video tape of beating up that poor trucker - they have these Arab New Yorkers cheering about this, if its on video - kick them out. And so we got what we got- ok for security sake let there be tighter restrictions on temporarily residing here - get rid of the opportunity for these people to come here, get trained in florida on how to fly a plane and then commit terrorism. I've also heard on the news that their are over 100 people in the US who the goverment thinks are tied to that bin lauden guy. Ask them to leave because they pose a security risk. Granted they may not have done anything to date and maybe they never will - but there is a reason why these people are considered a risk so the goverment should buy their home/business from them for a fair price and ask them to leave. Now you could say that thats not fair if they didn't do anything, but tough lifes not fair. | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
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It's time to get back to cars!! Instead of bigotry and prejudices this kind of tragedy should bring out the unity and pride in being an American. I read the entire chat on this subject and I cannot believe the level of prejudices that exist. Where does it come from? I'll tell you where.It comes from hearing bigoted statements from our parents and family.Let's hope you guys especially those with young children will not impart these prejudices to your kids. All of us are God's children. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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Ok, I participated and let this go on a few days because this event has consumed our lives and it's healthy to talk about. However, the time has come now that we're not benefiting from this thread. In closing I would like to say I hope people don't take any other person's comments too personally. Comments on here are sometimes uniformed or uneducated, but the main problem is that it's hard to communicate and understand the true intent of the poster through a text only message. All the little battles on this thread right now could probably be resolved with a short phone call or meeting in person. Let's please get off this topic, I suggest you start e-mailing each other individually if you want conversations to continue. My life will forever be changed by this tragic event, but my life still has a Ferrari in it and forever will. Life goes on, but not the same. | ||
| Charles Byrd (Vogel)
|
To all, my condolences and hope for better times. There is a lot of bickering and emotion going on on this site today, understandably. I have a lot of the same feelings and frustrations as all of you have. I also want retribution for this, but those poor brainwashed people in middle east countries that are celebrating this don't know any better, they are a dupe of their government, like a lot of people here. We have lost a lot in the past few days, people, a sense of safety, and many more, but in all of these losses, the one thing that we cannot allow to be taken from us is our freedom. I beg you all not to allow personal feelings to seperate us, not to let this horrible thing divide us. We are Americans, part of the greatest nation on this planet, and we need to realize how important our freedom is. We live in the only country in the world where the "people" still have some control over what the government does, and we need to exercise those rights. So, should we have retribution for these horrible crimes, YES, but should we give up our freedoms to be safe, NO, never, we just need to remember that we live in a land that promises life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We need to rectify this problem of terrorists that want to destroy those things, and continue to be Americans, not somethingelse-Americans, quit seperating ourselves. Let us take care of our problems and get back to pursueing life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, whether that is a better life for all, or a Ferrari on a curvy road. God bless Everyone. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
So there is no missunderstanding, the following is a direct personal attack by me against Bret M. Regarding the post you made (see below)I have two questions for you: 1) What rock do you live under in New Jersey? 2) Do you know that you are a Bigot? Be glad we are not in the same room because you don't want to see my "facial expression" let alone my "hand gestures" Regards, Paul Sloan By BretM (Bretm) on Wednesday, September 12, 2001 - 12:25 pm: Edit That's part of the reason why I pretty much hate Israel (I'm gonna get it for saying something outrageous as this, because it's alright to say you hate Italy, Germany, Greece, but you say Israel and of course I'm naturally part of the KKK or some neo-Nazi group). They think they're tough, they're nothing without us. We gave them the damn country back after WWII and now they think they're the ����. They kill thousands of Palestinians (who I also for the most part don't like, although what Rob says about 99.9% being good people is absolutely true but them celebrating about this type of terrorist stuff is just BS) with F16s, F18s, bombs, M16s, etc all supplied by us while the Palestinians are trying to throw rocks back at them. How tough are you Israel if you're beating up the proverbial 4th grade school girl when it comes to wars? Like one Israeli soldier dies so they kill like 100 Palestinian civilians and soldiers, I mean come on you should be trying to bring peace, not just messing up the Islamics cause you have the US as a big brother whenever you get in over your head. I just don't like the Middle East because they're another one of those time bombs when it comes to trouble, but we have to stay somewhat involved because of oil interests. Nothing else good comes out of the Middle East (except a couple posts here at FC, I can't remember who) I like what you said about how it will pull the US and the world together Martin, I was thinking the same thing this afternoon. | ||
| nick l (Nsxnick)
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paul s, i don't think you really understand who are allowed to permenantly reside in the US. there are very few options. 1) be born in the USA, US territory, or US air space 2) marry an american citizen 3) obtain an exeptional skill that will fill a need in the US 4) win a green card through a lotto 5) apply for political asylum 6) be sponsored by an immediate relative who is a citizen (parent/child or sibling) i may have missed a couple. which one of these do you suggest we get rid of? | ||
| Bill Shumaker (Gabriel)
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Actually, the DOD had permits arranged for me in both Sweden(1993) and Belgium(1992). As far as Japan is concerned, that was military. >having been based in a country doesn't make you >an expert in their naturalization process I stand firmly by my original statement. | ||
| paul s (Pes236)
|
well arnaldo i really liked your last post and you yourself may be a puerto-rican that i might enjoy as a next door neighbor - you obviously cared enough about moving here that you learned the language and you sound very educated and are probably a nice decent PERSON - so yes from puerto-rico, mexico, anywhere, send us more nice decent people who are educated and productive - i just feel like the US is becoming a dumping ground for these other counties scum - dont get me wrong i know for a fact that there are plenty of scum white people out there - but this is why i still contend to tighten the borders - some people are taking personal offenses to my post and i would preferr that they didnt but if need be i really dont care - my point is that they let anybody and everybody in and you dont know what your getting, most of it seems like it is bad - but guys like arnaldo, im glad your here i feel you make this country stronger but i do not agree with you blindly defending all of the bad examples that come here - and you said about the best economy for latin america - maybe most of the good descent hard working puerto-ricans are staying in puerto rico which is why their economy is so strong as you say - it seems like people think i am blindly catagorizing people by race but it is really a person by person evaluation - and i belive that there are many more arnaldo's out there but at this time for every arnaldo that has moved here there are 6 bad apples that came too - and this is not limited to puerto rico or mexico - arab people too - there are good decent hard working arab people that make this country stronger - but we got to weed out guys that came here for no apparent reason except bad | ||
| nick l (Nsxnick)
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bill shu... belgian, swedish, and japanese citizenships are harder to obtain? hmmm. if you've worked in these countries as you claim... you obviously had to obtain a work permit first. was that difficult? for any of these countries... it is easy to get naturalized once you obtain a work visa. its just a matter of paperwork and staying in the country for a few years. as for sweden... no person in their right mind would get a citizenship there because of their high tax rates. most internationals reside there with work permits (renewing them after every 180 days to avoid the high taxes). sweden would love for them to become citizens. having been based in a country doesn't make you an expert in their naturalization process. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
|
Paul S, I am really surprised at your response. Obviously, you are the type of person that forms judgment with little or no knowledge of the subject at hand. I am not justifying or excusing anybodies break of order or law, nevertheless, I am surprised daily by people that blame everything in life on the things that they do not understand. If you love your country as much as I believe you do, them you should make a priority to know your history and understand the social implications of our deeds of the past. Puerto Rico is a great nation with a powerful and knowlegeable work force. If we move to the states, so be it. Will you question why a California will move to New York, or viceversa? I would not, everybody has the right to choose where to live. The point I was trying to make with respect to the Puerto Rican economy is that we, like many other minority groups, are burden to no one. Our level of participation is not only significant, but it also helps fuel the economy of America and the creation of jobs, and businesses. I personally was born to a very poor home, holes in the walls, floors, and roof. I made a personal commitment to surpass my condition, and yes I believe everyone has the opportunity to do just that. Nevertheless, a lot of political and social obstacles, let alone uneducated and prejudice people, make it really hard to move ahead. Your complain that there was lack of support for your progress in the establishment of a business when on the other hand there was readily available support for minority groups. In that, I am with you, no one should be denied access to resources that should be offered equally to us all citizens. Nevertheless, our history has shown us that if it were not for laws such as this, minority groups trying to progress within this country of ours will be hindered or completely deprived of their rights for progress and a better future. I am not drawing conclusions here, I am merely stating facts that most of us well educated citizens without regard of ethnicity and background recognize and clearly understand as been part of the core of our past. If this offend you, then you should turn around and ask the people that you hold dear for answers, because I can only help you as a fellow citizen and as one that share a common interest, Ferraris, in embracing our diversity and with the hope that our eyes can be open to our social and political challenges of the present, and consequently, of the future. I also want to take this opportunity to express my deepest symphaty for does than in any way have been affected by this tragedy. The guilty shall pay, will pay dearly for this, but by God, I hope that only the guilty pays for it. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
|
I hate it when these topics come up, we all wind up fighting and separating. One thing I think we should avoid is personal attacks about any people here. It's just that FC is a drastically inefficient way of having a debate so things wind up getting much more heated than they would in person. If all of the intonation, hand gestures, facial expressions, etc weren't lost we would be able to have some really good talks about this stuff, but for the most part these topics just turn into big fights. Sorry to Peter and the other people that are really affected and are listening to our bickering at each other. | ||
| Bill Shumaker (Gabriel)
|
Nick l: >by the way, a US citizenship is the most >difficult citizenship to aquire in the world I'm not going to say now that that statement was just plain stupid. I will assume that you are writing in hyperbole. I have been based in, or worked in many different countries around this globe, and I'm here to say this: Citizenship in the great US is easier to obtain than almost any industrialized country in the world, period. Just try to get into any 'enlightened country' such as Belgium, Sweden, or Japan. Try it - you won't get it under any circumstance, but just try it. If you don't believe that, I will gladly provide those consular addresses for your research. I really don't even know how to enjoy anything right now - I look at the TR, but nothing.... | ||
| paul s (Pes236)
|
martin in all the arguments we have had over ferrari prices - im glad that it seems that we finally agree on something - its the individual not necissarily the entire country - im sure there are some palestinians who are saddend by this and are saddened by the loss of life of innocent civilians in any country - these are the people who i dont care if they come to live here because they are probably just plain old good people - by the way Nick it all depends on who you talk to about getting citizenshp - have a friend who went on a cruise - the cruise ship captain was from holland and had an engineering degree - he said it was impossible for him to become a US citizen or unless he married a US citizen. Yet Cuba - if you get a raft and you make it to the US your in - My view - send the boat people back and take in the engineer from Holland - as far as intelligence - go ahead nick deny that every one of the top 1000 us cities in crime rate are not predominately minorities, illegal immigrants etc. - CLOSE DOWN THE BORDERS AND BE MORE PICKY WHO WE LET IN - IF U CANT SPEAK THE LANGUAGE THEN LEARN -IF U HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER - CRAFTSMAN/TRADE/DEGREE THEN WE DONT WANT YOU AS A BURDEN - THINGS MUST CHANGE - we left these people in and supposedly taught them to fly in florida, probably paid for with some goverment grant - also peter i am very sorry for your loss | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
A politicians mind stretches 4 years..... A voters mind 6 months...... The reason why the Democrats lost the last election: Elian Gonzales! | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Typical politician. You do that •••• today, 3 years before the next election and nobody will remember in 2004 when they punch the hole. In 3 years the other party can not say anything in hopes that they will get at least some of the 3 Million votes for themselfes, promissing better things. Just a game. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
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Just to make sure everyone knows: Paul S. is not Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv). Please don't confuse us. Regards, Paul Sloan | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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I agree Nick. I am holding a greencard and it was hell to get this card and status in the US. Very hard to get the Visa before I was able to apply for the greencard. Now by circumventing the visa application and jumping the border and stay illegal and then be patriotized through the US president, I guess you guys have to keep that up at the next election when it is time to vote. I can not, but I sure would voice my poinion on that issue. But then last election was close, now he has 3 Million more to vote for him. | ||
| nick l (Nsxnick)
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reading all these posts.. i realize that you do not have to be intelligent to own a ferrari. all of you who consider yourself not to be a racist... quit redefining the word. go look it up and see if it applies to you. by the way, a US citizenship is the most difficult citizenship to aquire in the world. and paul s... a puerto rican is as much an american as a person born in po dung alabama. i hate to get personal and petty here but... where did you learn how to spell?? i would think a person living in a country should be able to speak and write the language... don't you? | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Tim, you are talking about some idiots celebrating. Some, not a country! Why would you want to burn the Palestine flag? They had albsolutely nothing to do with that. This comment just proves that the US media and politicians have conditioned Americans that Palestina is the enemy of the world. It is not! It is a few radical fanatics that make the headlines. As well as a few radical Israelis that make the headlines. BOTH brainwashed in hatered and turned loose against each other. Yes, go and buy an american flag and fly it at your house and on your car. I went to my warehouse to bring my flag from storage and it is flying at my porch. Show that our spitit is not broken but stronger than ever! | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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My sympathies Peter. | ||
| Peter Boray (Gts308qv)
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All this retoric...., lost one friend and one work colleage.....still in tears when I turn on the TV. No further comment..... | ||
| paul s (Pes236)
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bretm - thank you very much for backing me up Arnaldo - is because the US is supposedly conducting live ammo test in puerto rico your excuse for the majority ( not all )of them coming here, going on welfare and robbing our homes?? Then you say that there are social or polital instances that that hinder or completely halt development in high crime/minority filled neighborhoods. What is that hinderance? All the free benefits and assistance and opportunity programs that are available for anyone except a white male. And if there are so many hinderences here for a purto rican or other minority, why wouldnt they simply stay in what you consider the strongest economy in latin america. And since you claim all purto ricans are born american citizens, which you may technically be right, why in 103 years cant they speak english yet. Now for the record I want to say that I dont care if your purto rican, mexican, black or arab if you want to live in this country first you need to put in some effort, learn the language, then once you do that if you come here and work ( have a job ) buy a house have a family and live a normal productive to this country life. I dont have a problem with you. If your arab and live in this country and cheer about this event - GET OUT - if you cant speak english - get out - if you dont want to work and make EXCUSES ( arnaldo ) as to why minority filled neighborhoods are this countries highest crime neighborhoods - get out - i once again just think we take people in too easy - and we are getting everyone elses scum - out of the 3 million mexicans bush wants to take in how many do you thing speak english? Maybe 20% - how many of those mexicans are scientist, doctors, engineers ? if we are lucky 10 - how many of those mexicans will be receiving welfare 5 years from now? how many will have a criminal record 5 years from now ? 500,000 - 10 doctors 500,000 criminals oh yeah thats worth it. As to some of the jew comments in earlier post - I am not a religious person ( not even baptised ) I have no problems with any jews ( even dated a jewish girl in highschool - she was hot ) and i dont think that anyone here would be affraid to go into a jewish neighborhood after dark - so I think people who are saying bad things about jews are just twisting this into a relious preference thing- my point is quality of life - so lets get back to ferrari - there are puerto rican and black and hispanic and mexican neighborhoods near me that I would never even take my ferrari through for fear of my life ( now according to arnaldo if they kill me and steal my car its because the US is conducting live ammo test in purto rico so its the US's fault )but i woulnt have a problem with ever driving my ferrari through any jewish neighborhood | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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I am a simple person, however I figured it out a long time ago that the only Religion that I will subscribe to is the Golden Rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. | ||
| Ron Dallas (328infoseeker)
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Finaly after 2 days I smiled, at the sight of the New York people on the news cheering like high school cheerleaders at the workers going into the war zone! I lived in Okla. City during the bombing and the human spirit needs to find something even trivial to raise the spirit in these trying times.  : : : : : : | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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Tim N, I'm the one that said 99.9% of Muslims are good. My numbers aren't exact, but the point is that most are good whether they're in America or not. America is a great place, but as humans we are basically the same and there's about the same number of bad apples anywhere in the world. Those kids burning American flags are brainwashed just as much as you have been that America is perfect and can do no wrong. I understand you are emotional and have been personally touched, but try to let intelligence rule over emotion. Last night in the Dallas area two separate Mosques were shot up. The people that did that are no better than the terrorists... they target innocent people. If I ran into the guilty people, then I would kick their ass to no end. | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
|
To Bret and Kenny, I was brought up Jewish, although my mother is Irish. I have always considered myself an American and a patriot, and if duty called I would have gone to defend Americans as a member of the military. Fortunately for me and my children there has been no need for a massive call-up during my lifetime (I missed the Vietnam draft by a year). At age 7 I moved to Israel because my father founded a construction company there to build apartment houses for new immigrants. I lived there for 4 years and was there during the Six Day War, then returned at 17 to live and work on a kibbutz (a collective settlement) for a few years. This was 26 years ago, during the height of the "war of attrition". My settlement was in occupied territory on the West Bank, and was constantly undergoing terrorist attacks. For 2 years I slept with a rifle under my pillow, and was ready at a moment's notice to jump into a bomb shelter, or to risk my life protecting the women and children who were a favorite terrorist target. A few times things got hot, and I like to think I conducted myself with honor. But I always believed I was fighting for justice, against an enemy who did not hesitate to kill civilians. This is an absolute contravention of all accepted rules of warfare. As Norman Schwarzkopf stated last night, Americans (and Israelis, and most civilized nations) have always gone to extremes, risking their own soldiers' lives, to avoid civilian casualties. This is the difference between a civilized society and a barbaric one. Please note that I do not lump Arabs as a group into the barbaric category. The Koran does not preach murder and oppression. Only a few twisted maniacs have decided to interpret its teachings as a license to maim and slaughter. No one who hasn't lived through this type of situation has the background or experience to pass judgement on a people who live their entire lives surrounded by an overwhelming number of enemies who have publicly declared their intention to push the Jews into the sea. I understand that you are tired of hearing how great Israel is, but remember that these people are only one generation removed from an enormous holocaust that wiped out a large percentage of their families and loved ones. They have made a desert bloom, and offered assistance to all their Arab neighbors in sharing technology that would allow everyone to become self-sufficient. For the most part they were rebuffed, and have had to remain at war their entire lives to protect their homes and loved ones. I'm sure you would go to your Dad's assistance if he was threatened by a neighbor who swore to wipe him off the face of the earth for no good reason (as you should), so please understand where these people are coming from. As far as US policy, we have sworn to uphold and protect democratically elected governments around the world. In this instance we also have a good strategic reason to ally ourselves with the one Middle Eastern power that can and does provide a secure base of operations during a Middle Eastern conflict (as they did in the Gulf War). We have become the world's big brother, not the world's bully. We are the one who protects all the little people from the bullies. I think this is a good thing, but there will always be those psychopaths who want to continue hurting the weak and defenseless, and they resent the big brother. My heart goes out to all those who have lost loved ones during this terrible tragedy, but this is not a time for us to cave in. If we cave in today, our enemies will only grab more tomorrow. Because of some terrible flaw in the universe, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness have often been paid for with blood. Our founding fathers understood this, and our country has often gone to war on foreign shores when we could have stayed at home, safe between our two oceans. We chose to ignore our own safety, and lost many fine Americans in pursuity of an ideal; that all men are created equal, and all should have the opportunity to live free of tyrrany. No one who has ever been to war can glamorize it, it is neither fun nor particularly heroic. I pray every night that my children be spared what I have seen, but I remain firm in my commitment to protect and help others who cannot protect and help themselves. It is what life is all about. This obviously has nothing to do with Ferraris, but I would give mine up this moment if it would bring back even one of those unfortunates who died during this disaster. | ||
| Lawrence Michaels (Lxmichaels1)
|
This was just sent to me... I thought I'd share it here as well...Hope everybody is OK with it. We'll go forward from this moment - Leonard Pitts, Miami Herald It's my job to have something to say. They pay me to provide words that help make sense of that which troubles the American soul. But in this moment of airless shock when hot tears sting disbelieving eyes, the only thing I can find to say, the only words that seem to fit, must be addressed to the unknown author of this suffering. You monster. You beast. You unspeakable bastard. What lesson did you hope to teach us by your coward's attack on our WorldTradeCenter, our Pentagon, us? What was it you hoped we would learn? Whatever it was, please know that you failed. Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your cause. Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve. Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together. Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast and quarrelsome family, a family rent by racial, social, political and class division, but a family nonetheless. We're frivolous, yes, capable of expending tremendous emotional energy on pop cultural minutiae -- a singer's revealing dress, a ball team's misfortune, a cartoon mouse. We're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of that, we walk through life with a certain sense of blithe entitlement. We are fundamentally decent, though -- peace-loving and compassionate. We struggle to know the right thing and to do it. And we are, the overwhelming majority of us, people of faith, believers in a just and loving God. Some people -- you, perhaps -- think that any or all of this makes us weak. You're mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are strong in ways that cannot be measured by arsenals. IN PAIN Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in shock. We're still grappling with the unreality of the awful thing you did, still working to make ourselves understand that this isn't a special effect from some Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot development from a Tom Clancy novel. Both in terms of the awful scope of their ambition and the probable final death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts of terrorism in the history of the United States and, probably, the history of the world. You've bloodied us as we have never been bloodied before. But there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody and making us fall. This is the lesson Japan was taught to its bitter sorrow the last time anyone hit us this hard, the last time anyone brought us such abrupt and monumental pain. When roused, we are righteous in our outrage, terrible in our force. When provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear any suffering, pay any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit of justice. I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my people, as you, I think, do not. What I know reassures me. It also causes me to tremble with dread of the future. In the days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation, fingers pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen and what can be done to prevent it from happening again. There will be heightened security, misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. We'll go forward from this moment sobered, chastened, sad. But determined, too. Unimaginably determined. THE STEEL IN US You see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. That aspect of our character is seldom understood by people who don't know us well. On this day, the family's bickering is put on hold. As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and as Americans, we will rise in defense of all that we cherish. So I ask again: What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs to me that maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred. If that's the case, consider the message received. And take this message in exchange: You don't know my people. You don't know what we're capable of. You don't know what you just started. But you're about to learn. ----------------------------------------------- >> Larry | ||
| Lawrence Michaels (Lxmichaels1)
|
Hey Bret, May I suggest a little research on your part. The knowledge is at your fingertips. You are pretty bright so check this out. It sounds to me like you have an interest in this. First, do some historical research on Israel/Palistine back to the time of Moses & King Saul, and the time of Christ and the Roman occupation, Masada and understand when the Muslim came to the region and so on thru WWII and after that to the formation of the state of Israel. Personally, as a history buff I am able to put things like the conflicts of waring nations and peoples into perspective. It really helps me to understand why some geographic regions came to be the way they are. Try to see both..or all sides to the equation and just understand the basis of these conflicts and beliefs. Just my 2cent piece. >>Larry | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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The whole Isreal thing isn't as much based on what the jews are doing, but moreso based on where I come from. My town is basically 3/4 Italian and 1/4 Jewish, all I've been hearing from all the Jewish kids my whole life (all of which I'm friends with) is how great Israel is whenever we talk about war or economics which really pissed me off because any US citizen should support the US. I'm an American and America is great, just because my mom came from Germany and my dad's family from Italy doesn't mean that I'm gonna go around preaching how much better they are than the US in everything which is what all of the Jewish kids around me say, that's why I always try to avoid this topic. I haven't had any normal people around me to talk about Israel, I just get the propaganda version of the country which gets tiring very fast. All I know is that I'm American and it's the greatest country (I've been all over and haven't found any place as nice). I just hate to see the US get pulled into things like this. If we retaliate and devastate whoever did it then at least there would be some closure to this, but if we just take it then I have a big problem with the whole situation. And, I didn't say I don't like Jewish people, I said I don't always agree with Israel's methods. I don't think anyone here is from Israel so don't take it too personally (if you want to knock Germany and Italy feel free cause I'm not from there, my relatives are). When it comes down to it, Israel is a thousand times better than any Islamic country, I mean that's why their our ally, but that doesn't mean I like them enough to praise them over the US like all the Jewish kids I grew up with did. I'm not blaming Israel for the attack, there's no way you could logically do that, I'm just pissed that all the fighting between the two of them pulls us in like this. I would have much rather them attack Israel and then us back Israel to end them rather than them jumping in and attacking us when we're not even fighting them. I understand all the political, financial, religious motives behind attacking us, but still. I live 5 minutes from the GWB, I work for my dad's company putting up a building right across the Hudson all summer and he is there almost everyday, I don't know what I would do if that guy missed the WTC and hit my dad's building, he's the only parent I really have, it's a little personal since I grew up right there and don't just watch it on CNN. I sincerely hope you guys can teach me better things about Israel than I hear at school from the Jewish kids, you guys already have, in the few posts that you wrote in response which is good, now I have a much better view of the whole situation as opposed to the somewhat narrow one that I had gained before from the propaganda. Relating it to the Ferrari, I drive across the GWB like 3-4 times a week which is a little scary since they were planning on blowing it up and would've if they didn't catch the guys with all the explosives. This weekend alone I'm gonna go over it 4 times, it's fucked up that I can't just jump in the Ferrari and take a ride, now I have to think about being blown up since I live near all of this. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
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I went scuba diving with my girlfriend last month. She didn't check her dive gear but I did. After we were in flight she realized that she forgot to remove her dive knife (a BIG one)from her gear. When we landed we checked and there it was bigger then hell. Nobody noticed we had it thru the security check points. I was glad we made it thru but it really pissed me off. I mean this was no box cutter that got thru. It makes you wonder. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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Whoever said 99.9% of all arabs are good is wrong. In all of those countried they were celebrating the loss of thousands of american lives, 5 of which were from my small town. Whoever saw people in NJ celebrating, tell me were and i will be there with a bat. When i drove to the top of a hill near my house and saw a smoke filled void where i used to see the WTC i felt a feeling i never felt before. Just knowing that so many people were dying. One of my friend's dad is a NY fire fighter. He wasnt scheduled to work yesterday, the man upstairs was definately looking out for him. His whole company was in one of the buildings that collapsed. They are a few of the 200 firefighters feared to be dead. My best friend's dad was supposed to be on one of the planes that crashed. He was suposed to go to a conference in LA but the conferance got cancelled on monday night. This cant be allowed to happen. Those bastards in other countries who are celebrating shouldnt even be comsidered human beings. I have nothing against arab people living in the us, but i really dont like the ones living over there bc they are raised to hate me! Heres something my friend just told me- Z28Shark69: a parent came to my dads office 2day to get their son's dental xrays and records Z28Shark69: my dad felt bad, he made copies of them and gave them the original one Z28Shark69: a 20 yr old son Z28Shark69: was in the WTC Its a shame we have to live in a world were this stuff goes on. So everyone, go out and buy 3 flags. a small american one to put on your antenna of ur car (im flying one) and a big palastinian and afghani one to burn. Our flag stands for justice, democracy, honor and the spirit of out country. their flag doesnt stand for anything so i personaly would not feel bad about torching one in the middle of town. i want to see those bastards' reaction when they see that on tv! | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
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Danny, I understand what you are saying, but I feel that at this point, cars are the last thing on almost everybodies mind. This is the first time in almost 5 years I haven't awoken thinking of a Ferrari. It is a sad time. My first post came when I was panicking; my best friends dad was no where to be found (thankfully, he was working in a hospital in the city). I have been involved with other car forums in the past, and when an event like this happens, emotions run high. I feel guilty every second I think of a car now. Don't get me wrong, I love cars just as much as the next, but I have priorities, and when I see my friends parents not home at night, I start to wonder. This is a time that we come together to help eachother, not advoid the topic. To another day of racing, Kenny | ||
| Danny R. West (Dan_West348ts)
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Billy, I hear what you are saying. Traumatic memories take time and healing. You never fully recover. Those of us that have fought in wars personally know this to be true. The scenes you witnessed yesterday are horrible for sure. However, please understand what message I was trying to convey. There are appropriate sites for political messages. I would like to think we who are Ferrari lovers use this site to express our interests for these fine cars and not post messages that cause hurt to our fellow Ferrarists. Dan | ||
| Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
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Hey, I'm just glad all of you are safe. You are all my friends, no matter what. | ||
| Lawrence Michaels (Lxmichaels1)
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My position on all this !!!  >> Larry | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
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I agree with you Dan, and Jim, but I also understand Billys view point. Nevertheless, yesterday, after watching the news for over three hours, I got off my butt and went into my garage near midnight to relieve my stress by getting under my TR and looking into and oil leak that has me concerned. Just because of that I am happier today. Heck, who needs a therapist when you have twelve adrenaline pumping cylinders attached to the most sensuous italian curves sitting right there in your garage. | ||
| billy zissis (89tr)
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I just saw on the news that gas stations around the midwest have raised the price of gas up to $4.99 a gallon. That is another way rhis affects us as well. I for one will not drive my car if gas costs five bucks a gallon. It would cost me about $40 just to get her out of the driveway. | ||
| billy zissis (89tr)
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I do not know if I speak for all of us here, but that is exactly the problem. I do not know if we could just sit back and enjoy our cars. It will never be the same. Our lives have changed. Our preconceived notion that we are separated from the politics of the world has hit not only home but in our hearts. Who's to say that (God forbid) we go to a show and along comes a suicide bomber and sets himself off? Life will go on and time will march on but the memories remain. Almost all of us here NYC either know of someone or have someonewho has perished aimlessly in this disaster. I would love to get this act behind us and go on like nothing happen but the images of people and couples holding hands jumping out of the towers rather than get burned alive will never erase from my memories. Not only that, I have alot of friends who are police officers that are telling me that the Muslims of ths area are taking to the streets and parading and celebrating. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
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I'm with you Dan, lets get back to the cars! | ||
| Danny R. West (Dan_West348ts)
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Boys and Girls, I've been reading the posts on this thread over the past two days. I am disturbed by what is being printed by some of you. I understand there is some emotion about the things that happened yesterday in NYC and DC and my heart goes out to those of you that have been directly affected by the terrorist acts. However, this is a Ferrari site and should not be used for politics. It's about fine cars! All of us come from diverse backgrounds. I, for instance am a southerner from North Carolina living in California. Some of you are from other countries that have chosen and been accepted to live in the United States. We all have a common interest, that being Ferraris. We may have prejudices and that is normal. However, we need to keep some sense of dignity on this site and not let emotion cause us to write things that cause hurt fellings to our fellow ferrarists. I always thought we were friends on this site. Am I mistaken about that? Please use the political chat sites for politics and let's continue to express our good feeling and joy over our prancing ponies. That's my feeling. Dan | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Here is something I have received on e-mail. This, from a Canadian newspaper, no less, is worth sharing. > > > > > > > > > America: The Good Neighbor. > > > > > > > > > Widespread but only partial news coverage was given > > > recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from > > > Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television > > > commentator. What follows is the full text of his > > > trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional > > > Record: > > > > > > > > > "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the > > > Americans as the most generous and possibly the least > > > appreciated people on all the earth. > > > > > > > > > Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and > > > Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the > > > Americans who poured in billions of dollars and > > > forgave other billions in debts. None of these > > > countries is today paying even the interest on its > > > remaining debts to the United States. > > > > > > > > > When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it > > > was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward > > > was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of > > > Paris. I was there. I saw it. > > > > > > > > > When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United > > > States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 > > > American communities were flattened by tornadoes. > > > Nobody helped. > > > > > > > > > The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped > > > billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now > > > newspapers in those countries are writing about the > > > decadent, warmongering Americans. > > > > > > > > > I'd like to see just one of those countries that is > > > gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar > > > build its own airplane. Does any other country in the > > > world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the > > > Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why > > > don't they fly them? Why do all the International > > > lines except Russia fly American Planes? > > > > > > > > > Why does no other land on earth even consider putting > > > a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese > > > technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German > > > technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about > > > American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - > > > not once, but several times and safely home again. > > > > > > > > > You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs > > > right in the store window for everybody to look at. > > > Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. > > > They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless > > > they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American > > > dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here. > > > > > > > > > When the railways of France, Germany and India were > > > breaking down through age, it was the Americans who > > > rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the > > > New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an > > > old caboose. Both are still broke. > > > > > > > > > I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to > > > the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me > > > even one time when someone else raced to the Americans > > > in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even > > > during the San Francisco earthquake. > > > > > > > > > Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one > > > Canadian who is tired of hearing them get > > > kicked around. They will come out of this thing with > > > their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled > > > to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating > > > over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one > > > of those." > > > > > > > > > Stand proud, America! | ||
| Leonardo Soccolich (Lens)
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I was at work yesterday at 8:00 am so I witnessed everthing as it unfolded. We�re on the 39th floor, so all I have to do is turn my head for a clear view of the WTC. That second jet ramming into the south tower was the most surreal thing I�ve ever seen. I will never forget that moment. I was able to get out of the city on the ferry; every time I looked back that cloud of smoke, and the empty sky where the WTC should have been, sent shivers up and down my spine. I am still numb. This is a global trajedy, and an indication of how deep ignorance, desperation, anger, and hatred run in the world. Its a wake-up call for all of us. I think politics really shouldn�t be discussed here. There are too many informed and uninformed opinions, and that never works out. There have been many sincere efforts to bring peace to the middle east, just as there is plenty of blame to go around, just pick up a few history books. I can only think of the way all those innocent people died (and their families), and hope for a better future. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Edward , glad you are okay. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Guys, hate in all forms is what fuels these terrorists. (there I said fuel...Ferrari) You have to understand and learn about all religions and then you can make your own mind. I have and came to the conclusion that there is only one religion worth my time: MARTINISM. (if you want to join, send a check to P.O.BOX: 546028, Surfside FL 33154) There is nothing wrong with the Islam, neither with Jewdiism or any other religion for that matter. It is individuals that interpret and use the religion for their own use and go out and kill people over what they claim is their believe! Christians have done it for several hundreds of years. Still today you can only gasp with your mouth open, when you see the Pope and his 15. Century believes or follow a katholic service and the opression involved with most of the rituals and chants. People stop hating and stop blaming and stop accusing. Accuse only those that kill. Some Arabs, Some Jews, some Christians (Ireland. Bret, learn not to hate a race or religion or a nation. This has started to worst wars in history. Embrace differences and learn to accept. So should all of us here. | ||
| Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
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BretM, I lost everything I had but the clothes on my back yesterday. My room in the Marriott, only 100 feet away from the South tower was totally destroyed when the North tower crushed the Hotel. (I am a retired Navy Nuclear Physicist and I had dinner with a retired Airforce Commander and an Army Capt. last night. They don't blame Isreal, I don't blame Isreal, what gives you the right?) You need a history lesson, Isreal kicked Palistein's butt all by themselves in 8 days, in 1948. They had about four Piper Cubs in their airforce against numerous British made B-24's. (So, should we blame England?) That was the re-birth of Isreal. This was after England finally let them back into their own land. I am not Jewish I am not Palistianian, I am Polish, why don't you check out Poland's history in WW-II? Chat back. | ||
| billy zissis (89tr)
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I am not Jewish and I support Israel 100%. As for the Jews, they have been living in that land since Moses. They've turned an arid desert into a city a profitable one at that, and now eveyone wants apart of it. Yes, they did not have their own land by name but they were there long before the Muslims. You got to remember the Muslims came after Christ so they are a relativly new religion as where the Jews have been around forever. I think, and this is just my opinion, because the land over in the mideast has become so profitable that is why all these problems are occuring. I am all for bombing the hell out of these countries, innocent people will die-they died here as well, but it is only way to start winning the war against terrorism. | ||
| billy zissis (89tr)
|
Listen guys, when I see the Palestinians over not only in the Middle East but over here in New Jersey praising what has occurred I think these people deserve a bombing. I am not a Muslim hater for I have alot of Muslim friends, but those children over in the mid-east are bred to hate the United States from when there are born and that is why they have no respect or pity for life. I am sitting here watching angle after angle of the planes crashing into one of the world's most famous buildings, with people hanging and leaping out the windows so they do not get burned alive but rather die quickly. To me, this has got to be the most disturbing thing I have evr seen. I have friends who work down there and have helped the rescue mission. What we need to do is go bomb these countries and all the countries that harbor these animals. I might be hot headed right now but these animals know that there will be repercussions for their actions except that they accomplished what they set out to do-Attack us where it hurts and instill fear in us. Reagan did the right thing years back when Quadafi(sic?) was acting up. We went and bombed the hell out of Lybia. He was one of the first to denounce it because he has felt the United States' wrath before and knows the consequences. All these other Arab states have to feel this wrath so they could control their people. For it really is up to these governments who support these terrorists. What was once the most beautiful skyline in the world has been changed forever and these beasts must not get away with it. | ||
| Bill Shumaker (Gabriel)
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Mitchel, I'm not a Jew, but I second your post all the way. Personally, I'm tired of hearing how tolerant and unusual this type of behaviour is amoung ordinary muslims. There must be about a dozen conflicts around the world right now, and I can't think of one that doesn't involve violent muslim/islamist idealogy, period. And all this is interfering with my ability to buy gas for my TR. There, I did mention Ferrari. | ||
| Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
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Hey Bret, show a little backbone man. Its nice that you hate Israel...Its your opinion, but you know what? I DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS CRAP ON A FERRARI WEBSITE! You should have kept that to yourself. I'm a Jew, so yeah you could say that your post bothered me. You have every right to think and say what you want, but dude, I think that was uncalled for. | ||
| John A Arends (Jarends)
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Rob, your right, I have a Muslim Women working for me and she is one of the most honest, humble and good people I know. She is terrified of reacton on her and her children, although one of her sons is an eye surgeon and came in to the city to volunteer his skills and time. This frightens me. I'm Christian, and have had many deep conversations with her. That faith is a peaceful and honorable faith. I respect it very much. To each their own. These terrorists are like litterbugs. If two cars out of 100,000 throws out garbage, the road will be littered, even though 99,998 of the other respect the road. I have no use for these killers and would pray for them AFTER I've ripped their throats out. Sorry, John | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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That's part of the reason why I pretty much hate Israel (I'm gonna get it for saying something outrageous as this, because it's alright to say you hate Italy, Germany, Greece, but you say Israel and of course I'm naturally part of the KKK or some neo-Nazi group). They think they're tough, they're nothing without us. We gave them the damn country back after WWII and now they think they're the ••••. They kill thousands of Palestinians (who I also for the most part don't like, although what Rob says about 99.9% being good people is absolutely true but them celebrating about this type of terrorist stuff is just BS) with F16s, F18s, bombs, M16s, etc all supplied by us while the Palestinians are trying to throw rocks back at them. How tough are you Israel if you're beating up the proverbial 4th grade school girl when it comes to wars? Like one Israeli soldier dies so they kill like 100 Palestinian civilians and soldiers, I mean come on you should be trying to bring peace, not just messing up the Islamics cause you have the US as a big brother whenever you get in over your head. I just don't like the Middle East because they're another one of those time bombs when it comes to trouble, but we have to stay somewhat involved because of oil interests. Nothing else good comes out of the Middle East (except a couple posts here at FC, I can't remember who) I like what you said about how it will pull the US and the world together Martin, I was thinking the same thing this afternoon. | ||
| Lawrence Michaels (Lxmichaels1)
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To all of our friends that were close to or affected by the terrorist events. Please tell us here that you are OK. My sympathies and condolences to all. >>Larry | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Unfortunately I have to give Rob a good point there. Truely America is not the country it makes itself look to be and the US is not in all countries seen as a leader in the world. Not just in arab countries but in others as well. That does not and neither do all of them, kill Americans or attack in a terrorist fashion this country or its residents. This is done by seriously brain dead idiots. Arabs do not attack the US and do not hate America. They do not like the way the the USA has stood by the side of Israel while they have been killing palestinians in their land! We are the economical power that has made it possible for Israel to survive and has supplied weapons to Israel, weapons that have killed other arabs. Would you be pissed? You are sure pissed that the Russians have supplied the Vietnamese with weapons that killed Americans. I am not trying to make you understand why, neither are the actions from yesterday ever understandable, just be aware that the picture that you see in your US TV is not all that is out there! Please hold your fire before barking back. All I am saying is that this is how things are preceived and there is another side to each story. Neither should this make any excuse for anything from yesterday. Fortunately I think that the US and the rest of the civilized world will coume back stronger from this and will have the exact opposite effect than what these terrorists tried to achieve. God bless America! | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
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Matt Karson!!!!!!!! Are you OK?? Hope everyone on this board who works in Manhattan is OK, our prayers are with you and your families, friends, and co-workers. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
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Matt Karson!!!!!!!! Are you OK?? | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
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To all you guys in the NYC area-I hope you and your families and friends are O.K. After some evidence gathering which points to Ben lADEN I believe we'll give the Taliban an ultimatum-turn him over or we''ll bomb Afghanistan to dust and they will comply. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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As Jim E said, just give blood and support your fellow Americans. Also, you might want to fill your Ferrari up with gas (see, I got the topic back to Ferrari for a second). It's a fact that most Americans are ignorant about international topics and that anti-Americanism is not 100% unfounded. However, just as we are protected and our media is slanted, so are these other countries. USA isn't perfect, but we're not the evil of the world either. Although some of those nations aren't mature or intelligent enough to know this, I would hope Americans are, so that we realize this is only a handful of people (maybe a few thousand) that are directly responsible. 99.9% of Muslims are great people and that percentage applies about equally to other religions as well. There are bad people everywhere, but we've got to realize that although our human practices are different, we all have the same god. How many wars, battles, and terrorist acts would we have if everyone realized this? | ||
| Charles T (Charles)
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I was there guys. My office looks at the WTC (next to the NY Stock Exchange). I heard the first plane and crash (sounded like a missle then an explosion), was looking out my window and saw the second. Unbelieveable! I left the office and made my way to the east river. Stood there and watched for a bit until the 1st building fell. Then people start running and screaming as the dust clouds barreled down the streets. I felt like I was watching a movie. I called my wife and told her the top of the WTC fell, she said "no the whole building fell" - I couldn't/didn't want to believe it. Being there you had no prespective of the extent of the damage. I made my way up town and finally out of the City. What I learned... Stay away from the crowds - they panic and do incredibly dumb things. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
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Bill, I am not denying anybody. The fact is that yesterday we were all speculating. Today, real evidence is been developed which, not officially yet, points to those groups mentioned in this discussion. I strongly agree which you in that I want my children, my neighbor's children, and everybody in this contry to feel and to grow in safety and hopefully peace. There are people out there that you watch and keep track for your own benefit, but you do not go out and start taking heads just because something as devastating as this happened in your country. You need to know and act responsibly but forcefully against the real perpetrators, and like Bush said, againt those countries that harbor them. I have been involved with the military for too long, including intelligence operations abroad, to know that you just don't start shooting everytime you feel violated. You better know where the fire is coming from before you open fire. There could be friendlies, or just simply innocent people in the line of fire. With regards to the image of the US abroad, let me tell you one thing I learned well before coming to this country. Nobody in this planet gives away anything for free. All that aid and humanitarian relief that we praise ourselves of giving away out of our hard earned dollar comes back to us in many different ways. Mostly in political gain, but mainly to the benefit or larger corporations and created interest within our borders trying to get a foot hold in other peoples's resources. Good business?, I certainly think so. Does it make friends? Not always, but it sure provides a powerful grip on other's social and economic future. Do we deserve a better treatment and consideration abroad? Perhaps, but that can only be considered on per case basis. I do not believe for a second that we are the bullys of the world, but we do exert tremendous presion on other people's life that do not appreciate it but have to live with it for financial, political, or just plain common sense economic reasons. I strongly support that our borders be protected better and that Citizenship be a harder to earn commodity. For your education Paul S, Puerto Ricans are american citizens from birth, we are not immigrants by any means, some of us have just relocated within this great nation of ours. Puerto Rico and its territories have been an american possesion since 1898 as a result of the Hispano-American war. The question you should be asking is why most poor and high crime areas are normally occupied by minority groups? Is it because they are simply from different ethnic groups than the safer communities in America? or Are there social and political factors that hinder and sometimes completely halts development in areas like this. We Puerto Ricans have the strongest global economy in Latin America besides that of Mexico, and Brazil. In fact, we consume more american products a year than those two other Nations combined, we are merely 3.5 millions living in the Island, and probably another 3 million living all over the world, and neither you nor anybody is going to tell me that we are not deserving of a better treatment, as you so much desire and deserve for yourself. We are your co-citizens and before you start targeting any particular minority group you should understand the reasons things are what they are. We like to whine about this or that but we do not want to look under the table to find out what is really going on. A common habit that we all are guilty of, for the most part, is the following - As long as I live in peace, with financial and social stability, I could care less what's going on in the rest of the country, and even less abroad. For instance, did you know that the US military has been using the Puerto Rican municipal Island of Vieques for live ammo target practice for over half a century, and that the residents in Vieques have the highest incident of cancer and other degenerative disease than in any other part of the nation? Now tell me that the fact that the US is there using all kinds of weapons with their toxic side effects have nothing to do with these statistics. Now, will you consider that this residents and perhaps those in the main Island should be concerned and wounded that the US military intends to stay and continue its practices if they have their way in spite of your co-citizens health and future. If you were to take a poll right know of the average american citizen, and ask them the same question, I would almost be certain that less than 15% know these facts. How did I get to that number? Because less than that percentage is the amount of people in this country that I have the opportunity to meet that know for a fact that Puerto Rico and its citizens are also american citizens, and that Puerto Rico is also and american territory that operates in nearly the same fashion as any other state. And this is my friends just one example of us not knowing what we do abroad, and not knowing why we do not get the treatment that we so rightiously deserve. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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I just saw on CNN a bit ago that they pulled over 3 terrorists in a van in NJ right bear the GWB. They presume so far that they were going to attempt to blow up the GWB, wtf. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
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Does anybody want to help? Do these things: One - Give Blood Give blood sometime this week - The blood supply will be low and we can never have too much. Two - Buy a Flag If you do not own an American Flag, go buy one TODAY and proudly display it outside. If you have one, stop what you are doing and display it. "This small show of solidarity on your part demonstrates a united people who WILL NOT be dictated to by the likes of those who seek to disrupt our way of life. Our thoughts are with those directly affected by this tragedy. Let the next story you, and the perpetrators, hear on CNN is how every retail outlet in the country is absolutely sold out of American Flags." Three - Go purchase something you have been wanting all year. Weakening our economy would only be a victory for the terrorists. "THE U.S. ECONOMY will go into recession as a result of the terrorist attack," said Sung Won Sohn, chief economist for Wells Fargo & Co. "U.S. productive capacity has not been damaged, but confidence has." We can choose to keep our confidence (and the economy) alive by buying that DVD player, additional Ferrari, new jacket you've wanted or just go out to lunch a couple of times this week. Our collective spending will be crucial to showing terrorists around the world that we will not allow them to destroy our wills or our confidence in the American system. | ||
| Bill Shumaker (Gabriel)
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World's bully?????? Take away one tenth of what America has done for the rest of the world, what we have given, the men and woman who die for sacred and abstract concepts, while everyone else tells us just how much more we need to do for them, and the rest of the world would just be that jungle out there. As far as I am concerned, anyone believing that we are bullies can *shove it*. It IS time to swing a big stick. As for Clinton coming back? What he swung around wasn't exactly a 'stick'. Arnaldo, I don't exactly understand why you keep denying the clear and present proofs as to the ID of these foriegn lunatics. IMHO, it doesn't matter one whit exactly WHO was involved. These organizations are well organized and funded *mass murderers*, and need to wiped off the face of this world. My children derserve to be raised in safety, not blown to pieces and burned alive because we don't subscribe to their nutty religious beliefs, or because we don't think that it's right to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth and murder all the Jews. Hell yes, I support Israel %100 and I am a flat out, no apoligy Atheist. Personally, I don't care who might find my writing too blunt or offensive. Hell, I knew people who worked there - good people that I'll never see again. Sorry for rambling guys. I'll stop now | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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I'm glad to see other people think like me, you guys summed it up really well John, Paul, and Mike etc. You don't have to be racist to say what Paul says (which I agree with). It's just not good sense to keep allowing the dregs of other countries' jails to come into our country. This reminds me of the movie Scarface, all the scum that we take in, why? No other country does that, why should we since everyone, and I mean everyone hates us in the world either because of jealousy or religious fanaticism (like the Islamics here with their Jihad against us). There's no official language of the US which is why they are flexible with spanish etc, but quite frankly I'm with Paul in that if you want the benefits of living in the US you should put in the effort. If I go and live in Japan I for one wouldn't expect the government to start changing everything to English for me (granted it's a little different with the official language and all, but still the point still remains). It's time the US stops being soft, it's time the US stops getting pushed around, it's time that the US does what's good for the US and not what's supposed to look good to the rest of the world (like taking the scum of their country). In all our efforts to be humanitarian we've shot ourself in the foot, we're no longer respected by other countries because we never retaliate etc and we've made enemies all over the world. Time to go back to simplicity with Speak softly and carry a big stick. | ||
| Mike (Dollartaker)
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One thing people need to remember is that the U.S. can always be attacked. This is the nature of a democracy. It is not just intellegence that keeps us safe, but the fear that the U.S. retaliation would be so strong and swift that it might be better to attack forign sites. We need to hit hard and smart!!!!! The world deems us as soft. This, I cannot bear. I'm a 33 y/o vet. Sign me up. | ||
| John A Arends (Jarends)
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This country will not ever be the same. I have not be able to compose myself while watching the horror of this attack. We are not a weak people, we could at the drop of a hat eliminate the entire countries of all those celebrating the attack. My anger actually made me cry in frustration. I hope we can get over it, it's not good for our soul, BUT BUT, we must be responsible to defend ourselves with all the power we Americans have built and paid for and put an end to these insane people (although I'm convinced they're straight out of hell). This will not get better until this happens. The crash in Pennsylvania was due to the passengers fighting these subhumans to prevent them from using that fourth plane for a weapon. We MUST honor them as heroes. Every family member of those that fought on those planes are in my prayers and my humble thanks and deep respect go out to them. God bless them and us all. John | ||
| paul s (Pes236)
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I agree with a lot of what herbert said - its too easy to get into this country - i like bush but legalizing 3 million mexicans ???????? why, why cant they stay in mexico, whats wrong with mexico - they say that there are over 100 rag-heads in this country who they belive may be connected to that bin lauden guy - why - kick them out - it can be done nicely, since they have not done anything that can be proven just say " we believe that you may be connected to one of our countries enemies and that you may possibly be a security risk " - the goverment will buy their house and or business or if pennyless, give them a grand and send them packing. I believe that a much harder look should be given to everyone wanting access to this country. Im sure there are some mexicans, rag-heads, and purto-rican immigrants etc. that we would like in this country and that we would like as our next door neighbors. But the majority ( not all - i am not a predjudice person - allthough it may sound like it )We should not allow in - Prisons are allways overcrowded - We all have high crime neighborhoods in our cities - these are all predominatly mexican, purtorican, hispanic, african american neghborhoods. Why dont we send our scum of the earth white people to other countries in stead of keeping them .No we just keep them and take everyone elses criminals and put them on wellfare before we put them in jail. I also believe that if you cant speek the language, get out! Why do I see my tax dollars going torwards bi-lingual highway rest stop signs and have to listen to my banks automated voice greeting " for english press one " if you want to live in this country that bad you can learn the language, if your too lazy to learn the language, then your probably to lazy to get a job, so no welfare for you, or you just dont want to live here that bad. When I went to start my business there was no white male business start up grant. Like there is for everyone else. And like someone else said about all of the money we give to the arab countries we made no friends, thats right, they hate us cause we want their oil - but who feeds them - ever hear of the oil for food program - how about if we dont take their oil for a month and we use our own ( texas, alaska ) and everyone pitches in to really conserve for 30 days - dont take any oil, dont give any food, let them starve and then take their oil- they forget its a 2 way street - then the pakastanie cheering about this - they were driving fords - what the hell? someone said about the US being the worlds bully, considering the stuff we give away ( money, food , medical care ) they have no clue what a bully is ( not directed torwards person that wrote that post - i mean other countries that view us as such ) maybe we should show them the real definition of the word bully | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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I've seen the images over and over and still can't come to grips with it. I even try to imagine the absolute fear and terror that must have gone through those innocent civilians in those planes and the bravest firemen and police and emergency crews who were in those buildings... I just cried... | ||
| Robert R. (Multisync23)
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I keep hearing, "why couldn't we stop this?" Others think the $25 billion we spend yearly on intelligence isn't enough. Airport security can detect weapons, but it can't read people's minds. This could have been executed by as few as 9 people. One guy as the leader, and 2 hijackers for each plane. Send the 8 hijackers to flight school for 6 months. Brainwash them with religion. Give them composite material knives to stuff in their underwear, and put them on a plane. Presto, you've sunk the world trade center. We have to accept that there will always be exceptional circumstances in which we are vulnerable. I don't want my tax dollars going to more useles intelligence that can never cover every situation. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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Heres some more things my friend saw from the air traffic control tower at la guardia. Z28Shark69: the 1st plane came a bit high, dived a bit and hit it right there Z28Shark69: 2nd plane turned around, was about to stall airspeed then hit it Z28Shark69: speed was around 160-200 MPH at impact TimN88: the 2nd plane/ Z28Shark69: yeah TimN88: the 2nd plane made a pass the turned back? Z28Shark69: it went from the south Z28Shark69: then made a 90 degree bank and hit it | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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I cant belive this happened! This has been a terrible day. In school so many people were crying in front of the tv. My best friend was unable to contact his dad, who works accross the street. I just heard that one if my friends lost his aunt and uncle. Thankfully my dad wasnt in NY, he's in monte carlo for business. Alot of the insurance companies at the conference where he is had offices in the wtc. My mom said she talked to him and all of the workers were safely evacuated. One of my friends goes to college at laguardia airport. He was in the tower looking at the 1st plane to hit bc it wasnt responding. He saw everything happen. TimN88: did you see the first plane hit?" Z28Shark69: yeah TimN88: chet told me you were looking at it bc it didnt respond Z28Shark69: american airlines 767 flight #11 bound for CA was told by JFK and LGA to raise altituide and an obstruction was in path Z28Shark69: no respone at all Z28Shark69: boom then static Z28Shark69: 18-20 min later, United 757 flight #77 does same •••• TimN88: where u up there for that one too/ TimN88: ? Z28Shark69: yeah Z28Shark69: they shut the college down after the 2nd plane hit it Z28Shark69: a plane that just took off from LGA had to be called in and grounded TimN88: what were peoples' reactions in the tower? Z28Shark69: a lot of cussin and ohhs Z28Shark69: oh ••••, oh ••••, damn, what the ••••, look at that •••• man TimN88: i was in school, so many people were crying in the library Thats what he told me so far. i'll post more of what he says ;later. he said it was like a movie and he didnt believe his eyes. I remeber seeing the 1st tower collapse on tv and seeing people almost fall over. My teacher called one of hos realatives. He was very distrought after seing people jump off the building. After school i drove to the top of a hill just out of town, nyc is about 30 miles away, i saw the tops of the builingd and a billowing cloud of smoke where i used to see the towers from that hill so many times before. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
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As a highschool student located just outside of NYC, I felt the blow of WTC; not physically but emotionally. In my town, many of the kids parents commute to work and it was incredibly hard to reach anyone from about 9:30-3. I myself was scared that my father was in the area (for that is where he works), but he slept in. I have to guess that we won't know who banished until the smoke clears. I have friends whose parents haven't come home yet; odds are, if their parents aren't home by the morning, they won't be home at all. It is sad and unfortunate that the US to be the worlds bully. Even though I am Jewish, I feel that we should f*ck Israel. (If you can not tell, I am not very religious). It is not worth risking the lives of our people for someone elses cause. It was the Jews who claimed the land as their own in the Camp David Peace Accords. I wish everybody at FC and all of their family and friends well and hope everyone will make it another day to tear up the streets. -Kenny | ||
| Robert Davis (H2oquick)
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Our sympathy and prayer be to the victims and families of this senseless act. May those who are involved and lost their lives in commiting this terrible tragedy rot in hell and I hope for once this country stands and eliminates this world of these deseased minds. | ||
| Adam Goldman '86 TR (Icnsltmfg)
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For those that have not been to WTC or try http://www.panynj.gov/wtc/wtccomplexframe.htm | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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I agree Herbert with everything you say, I was just talking about all this with my roommate. When is enough enough ya know. It's a shame that something like this has to happen for us to realize these things. | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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I doubt Bill Clinton could do anything and probably some of the people he let in this country in the mass immigration just for votes had something to do with it. I partially blame George Bush Sr. for not ending the Gulf war Conclusively. The time has come to close our borders and stop this free access. Also I hate that all the money we have given away to these countries has not made any friends. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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Why would it be good to still have Clinton as president? I wish we had Truman again or Andrew Jackson, needless to say the Islamics would be in trouble. I vote Patton for prez. for times like this. | ||
| Peter S�derlund/328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
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I would like to express my deepest sympathy with the American people and the relatives to the victims of this crime. I�m so sad. Peter Sweden | ||
| Leo (Speedracer)
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My sister works on John street in Manhattan, right up the block from the towers. She saw people falling out the windown on fire plummeting 100 stories to their death. The most horrible sight she has ever seen. We should never have been involved with middle east conflicts. I thought I would have never said I wish Clinton was still president. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
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Bill, I am sure we have enough people qualified in this country to pull something like this off. The Kamikaze nature of their involvement definitely points to religious extremists, but lets wait and see. With regards to taking over the planes, there is a possibility that the pilot and perhaps some of the crew might have been involved. Remember that TWA plane that nose dove in to the ocean not too long ago of the coast of Massachusetts (or nearby anyway) killing everyone on board?, it was been piloted by one of these guys. Who knows, maybe he was just making a practice run at our security practices, and our ability to react to this type of incidents. Anyway, I does agree with you in that my TR also feels a lot safer than any plane at the moment. | ||
| Bill Shumaker (Gabriel)
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This is a little bigger than parking a ton of fertilizer and kerosene near the federal building. The level of planning and tactics, not to mention the procurement of several well trained and experienced flight crews to navigate and fly extremely complex civilian aircraft to their own deaths on undefended civilian tagets points right at the religious lunatic organizations that have used similar methods in the past. The thing that really frightens me is that, after thinking it out for awhile, I have come to a hypothesis that these planes were prolly taken over by unarmed gangs/groups of men. It would be hard to believe that several different armed groups could penetrate security in different locations without any detection whatsoever. - How do we prevent that from happening again??????? Methinks my TR is now safer than flying. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
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You know, when the Oklahoma Federal building was attacked, the first groups of people everybody thought responsible where the same people we are considering now. Very sadly but true, our own, home grown, people were responsible for the attack. I would be very cautious in placing the blame on anybody at this point. I know about the threats that some terrorists groups issued a few weeks back, but I think we should still be careful. Nevertheless, I agree with every one else that feels that the need for resolution and completion shall be forceful and definitive. On the other hand, it will not do us any good if we target and destroy the wrong people. Arnaldo Torres. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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I am shocked! | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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My dad's company is putting up a building straight across the river, so he was up on the roof this morning with one of the guys and they saw this plane coming in across the river and were like wtf is he going, and then he just cracked into the building. The mushroom cloud was unbelieavably big. And then another plane hit and soon after they started to collapse. He said that there were a ton of F14s and F18s that came ripping up the river and started circling the city. Damn if I was at work today with him and not at school I would have been right there. It's time that the US actually use some of that military might rather than just have it sit in some 40 year old military silo or hanger. I mean come on, everyone bitches us around all the time and we just take it, why? They keep on saying how big we are by calling them cowards and not retaliating, •••• that it's time we start leveling some of those Islamics assholes that are celebrating over in Palestine now. | ||
| Lawrence Michaels (Lxmichaels1)
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Where is Douglas McAuthur when his country needs him. Recall Norman Schwartzkophf(sp)! I need Teddy Roosevelt! I hope that the governments of civilized countries will finally put in place HARD measures to deal with this. Prez Dubya, here is your opportunity to show us ya got the leadership needed. I'm too old for the draft but sign me up anyway. | ||
| RICK ROMERO (Tr90)
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We should go in and kill all them terrorists. bastards. | ||
| Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
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My building in Atlanta is being evacuated right now. This is so horrible. I hope everyone and their families are accounted for. | ||
| paul s (Pes236)
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bret and bill -- yessssssss - they wanna be cool - thats fine - they wanna be a-holes - beat um up and take their lunch money ( oil ) | ||
| Bill Shumaker (Gabriel)
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Long ago, in college, I had read a paper that said we should do exactly that and name it the USSA. -United States of Saudi Arabia. Cheap oil, and no finances for nutso religious terrorists. Gee, I wonder who will end up paying for all this? | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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A car bomb was set off at the state center in Washington too. This is f@cked up. Like you said though Bill we wont do anything. I say we level the middle east and conquer them for their oil. | ||
| Bill Shumaker (Gabriel)
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Not to worry. After a long and useless investigation, we will do virtually nothing. Situation normal, all f***ed up. (snafu) | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
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and now the Pentagon has been hit and one of the WTC towers has fallen. This isn't getting better. | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
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This morning two aircrafts collided with the World Trade Center. Both buildings were hit and one aircraft collision can be seen on the News. Get to a TV ASAP! I can't believe this!!!! |