| Author | Message | ||
| Michael Rochwerg (Mikeroch)
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MANY THANKS TO ALL OF YOU!! AFTER CAREFUL DELIBERATION OF VARIOUS FACTORS (PRICE; AGE OF CAR; "NON-CONVERTIBLENESS") AND TAKING ALL YOUR COMMENTS INTO ACCOUNT, MY WIFE AND I HAVE DECIDED NOT TO GO AHEAD WITH THIS TR. THE SEARCH WILL CONTINUE, I THINK FOR A 355 SPYDER, WHICH WILL DRIVE BETTER (POWER STEERING TOO)AND BE A CONVERTIBLE WITH A POWER TOP (WHICH I ORIGINALLY WANTED), AND JUST AS FAST IF NOT FASTER, ETC. THE RESPONSES FROM PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD BOTH POSTED HERE AND THROUGH DIRECT E-MAIL TO ME HAVE BEEN UNBELIEVABLE. YOU ARE A GREAT GROUP OF PEOPLE/FERRARI FANS!! THANKS AGAIN, MIKESTER. | ||
| Christiank (Christiank)
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The demand for TR hasn't been that great. You can get a pretty good idea how much you can pay for a particular car at cpi valueguide. As Mikester states the car is in almost (?) perfect condition. Everybody who sees my 87 TR says that with over 30,000 miles. And, those prices at CPI valueguide are retail prices. IMHO retail minus about 15 % is more realictic considering the economic situation. That means the car has a value of about USD 70,000 if in perfect condition. From what I have seen you can get a low mileage car with full history, perfect condition etc etc. below that. I have to agree with William. If you can get a 512 TR for 85 to 95 a TR has to be much lower. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Matthew; you are surely not in the minority there. Most people would pay more for a low milage car. I think I am in the minority on that perspective and would pay less. | ||
| Matthew Jenson (Moab355)
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Hello, As usual I am sure I am in the minority with this opinion. Yes the price is a little high but you are paying for a low mileage, perfect 1 owner car. $80,000.00 is not to much to pay for this car as long as a full major service with belts has been done (along with anything else the car needs like a Water pump). If it is a clean car complete with all books, tools and service records. That is perfect pedigree and a car like that should bring a premium because there are very few of them left. Now that I have said that if you plan to drive the car more than a 1000 miles a year it will be a bad idea to pay a premium for a low mileage car because you will lose that premium you have paid for by putting excessive miles on it. Being a low mileage car it will leak and may have some hickups so plan for them. There is no excuse for the dealer not letting you drive the car though. Matthew Jenson | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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I agree with everybody. Who would not let you drive a car that you are about to buy. That is nuts. You would be nuts to buy that car. You would not marry a woman without taking her for a test drive, would you? Overpriced! Absolutely overpriced! $70K is bottom line! Check eBay. I personally would discount low milage cars. For that car I would pay $ 5K less just for the low milage! You will spend that easily in seals and rubber parts. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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Ive seen 512TRs for as low as $85k & its quite an improvement over the 91 TR | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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My car was a consignment sale at an upscale dealer in West Vancouver (The Urban Garage). The manager encouraged me to take a test drive and have the car inspected. He also negotiated with the owner of the car to except my low (but realistic) offer. He didn't make much, if at all, a commission, but then again he sold the car and made a happy customer (me). | ||
| Robert Mann (Robertmann)
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Mikester, Please believe me, I have had three 91 TR's and the price they have asked for this car is absurd. The last one that I sold had 980 miles on it and was in new condition and I did not ask that much for the car. Robert | ||
| Bruce Warwick (Skyking)
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Hey Mikester The low mileage wouldn't bother me. Service is done and F. of Ontario will service everything they can find [or not find] to keep their service techs busy! The price is ridiculous by abot $40 K In 3 years who knows. But the moment you cut the check you'll lose $45 K BEFORE tax and in Canada that's a big nunber too. No drive? What do they think they're selling? Tell them to keep their car and believe me, at that price they will!! | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
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512TRs can be found in the U.S. for much less. Check out the cars for sale in the Ferrari Market Letter at www.ferrarimarketletter.com. Also, if it truly a "one owner car" then FNA will offer a one year warranty on the drivetrain. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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1) get a 92 512TR  2) No Test drive, No purchase. Period 3) Tell them you want an independent mechanic of your choice to take the car & inspect it at his shop. If they refuse, Walk away. | ||
| Robert Davis (H2oquick)
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Michael, I too was searching around on and off for a TR. I instead found a 308 gtbi to my liking and the price was very right. I still take time to check out the TR's for sale. By the way my 308 is a 82 with 62k miles and have had very little wrong with exception to a clutch that was worn and had to be replaced a month after purchase. Any classic car will need something keep in mind most of these cars is 20 years old. With a little searching and some effort parts can be bought within reason, and with mechanic know how a great savings can be made. The answer to your questions (1)low mileage cars are usually problem cars after being driven beyond their dormant state. (2)The price from what I have been looking at is extremely high, especially considering appearance wise made be mint...but mechanical? And I am with everyone else....never buy anything that can't be test driven unless the price far outweighs the possible problems ( now there is a possibilty they may think you are a tire kicker and in that case, if this is what you truely want, a ageement of purchase upon test drive satisfaction may be made) .......... | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
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Mikester, I have always heard that low mileage cars that sit can have more problems than higher mileage cars. Dry hoses,belts and gaskets for starters. A car that has been driven a good amount of miles with records gives a good indication of if you are getting a good car or not. My car did not have all of it records but the guy I bought it had all of his records since 91 and a few from the owner before him. I felt like I a least knew where the car had been for the last 9 years. Once I drove 4 hours from Indy to michigan to look at a 308. The owner told me it had a new clutch and had its major service and he had records. Needless to say after a 4 hour drive I take the Ferrari on a 10 minit test drive. I ask to see the records and he shows me a piece of paper showing it had an oil change and maybe brake pads!! I asked to see the records for the service and clutch and he told me the clutch had just been adjusted and not replaced and that his partner had the other records "yeah right" It was a total waste of 8 hours of driving. I think you would be better off to look for a car with a more realistic price. | ||
| Christiank (Christiank)
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Michael: The TR from 87 to 91 have the same value. I low mileage TR will bring you only problems. The price is CAD 35,000 too high plus the tax (14 or 17 %) you will loose in addition. Ferrari in Vancouver has a nice red 1992 348 TS for Canadian 99,000 or so and they very reliable people you can trust. Please email me directly if you need more help. Christian | ||
| Christiank (Christiank)
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Michael: | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
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Mikester -- $94K US!? -- I would have started laughing. If it's a US version, I'd agree with the others that mid $70Ks is fair (and if some other version maybe even less). If they've got the balls to ask $94K, offer $70K and wait for the call (while you keep looking of course). Plenty of TRs like this around for sale, they ain't going up in value, and real TR buyers are not exactly the most common thing around -- JMHOs. | ||
| paul s (Pes236)
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mike - keep in mind that 12 cylender cars are a little more $ to maintain and repair than the 8 cyl. 328/348 u were looking at # 1 - no drive no buy # 2 - i also agree that the car is a little pricey # 3 - when searching for a car myself - I ran into different situations -one place they also told me I couldn't drive it - even though i had a cashiers check with me - and another place that on multiple occasions left me drive anything I wanted - and offered to let me drive even more than I had. That place was Algar in PA - they also gave me a 90 day bumper to bumper warranty on the car - their view was that if i am buying a 100k+ car from them, that everything should and will work and if something dumb happens during 90 days that they should take care of it. For that kinda money they should treat you like a king - so you may want to reconsider purchasing from them at all. And as I said car is overpriced - Remember who owns the car - not the dealership -a dealership can wait to get their price - the individual who owns it may take first reasonable offer - fair price would be in the 70's in US dollars - do yor research - ferrarimarketletter.com,dupontregistry.com, carbuyer.com, ferrarina.com and so on | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
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Mikester, I just bought a 1990 TR back in May, and I went throught the different Ferrari models just like you before finally deciding on the Testarossa. I drove very low mileage TRs (the lowest mileage car had only 2700 miles on it), and I was so disappointed I almost give up on Ferrari all together. I can't remember the posting, but check FerrariChat records dating back to April or May of this year for the discussion. Anyway, if you cannot drive it, forget about it. It might be a good car, but you won't know until you drive it for a few miles. As far as your price, I do not know the TR market on your area, but in the US, that price resembles more the price you would pay for a 512TR which by many people's opinions is a better car. My impression was that to get something really good you need to be looking in the neighborhood of $70K ( I saw examples all the way to the mid $50K, but they needed about $10K to $15K in maintenance and servicing to bring them up to par with the more pricey ones, hence, no bargain). So far mine has been very reliable and I've been driving it in the order of 1000 miles a month. I am currently working on a leak, but I consider that minor and I am taking care of it myself. One suggestion that I deem very important is for you to procure and secure a good mechanic in your area before even putting a CDN down. You need somebody that you can trust that is in no way related to seller or dealer to make a complete unbiased inspection of the vehicle. One thing that has been commented in this Forum is that some TR suffer from a weak gearbox (most people that have had this problem replace the gearbox with that of a 512TR which is stronger and more reliable). You also need to know if the car has been tracked, specificly to look for the gearbox issue which, based on some of my friend's experiences, is where the gearbox has suffered the most. Also most TRs (although mine not yet) suffer from non-working seat belt retractors which is a minor problem if you don't mind removing and replacing the belt everytime you get in and out of the car. Besides those issues, TRs seem to be one of the most reliable Ferraris for what I have gather so far. I hope you find what you are looking for, Good Luck! Caribe. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
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Mikester, I have never driven/nor owned a Ferrari (soon but I think that seems to be overpriced? Any TR owners out there want to back me up? -Kenny | ||
| Michael Rochwerg (Mikeroch)
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UPDATE - THE DEALER NOW SAYS THEY WILL ARRANGE PERMISSION FROM THE CURRENT OWNER FOR A TEST DRIVE. FRED ---> IF I LIKE IT, WHAT ARE THE POSSIBLE PROBLEMS FROM THE CAR HAVING SUCH LOW MILEAGE?? P.S. - THERE WILL BE NO WARRANTY. THANKS AGAIN, MIKESTER | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
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Low milage cars can have a set of problems all of their own. If it is me if they won't let me drive it they can take a hike. No way would I even consider spending that kind of jack on a car and not drive it. No drive no buy!! Fred | ||
| Michael Rochwerg (Mikeroch)
|
HI, MY SEARCH FOR A FERRARI 328 OR 348 HAS NOW BECOME A DECISION ON A '91 TESTAROSSA. THE DEALER HAS THIS CAR IN RED ON TAN WITH ONLY 8,800 KM (ABOUT 5300 MILES) IN ALMOST PERFECT CONDITION AT $145,000 CDN (ABOUT $94,000 US). IT IS A ONE OWNER CAR FROM NEW, PURCHASED AT THE DEALERSHIP (FERRARI OF ONTARIO (CANADA)) AND ALWAYS SERVICED THERE. APPARENTLY, IT HAS HAD ALL REGULAR OIL CHANGES ANNUALY AND TIMING BELT SERVICING IN 1999 AND HAS NOT NEEDED ANY OTHER REPAIR WORK. A FEW QUESTIONS: 1) GIVEN THE LOW MILEAGE, MIGHT THIS CAUSE MAJOR FUTURE REPAIR/MAINTENANCE PROBLEMS AS FERRARIS ARE BUILT TO BE DRIVEN REGULARLY? 2) WOULD YOU CONSIDER THIS A "FAIR" PRICE FOR THIS CAR? 3) WHAT IS YOUR OPINION REGARDING FUTURE DEPRECIATION (SAY IN THREE YEARS)? 4) THE CAR IS ON CONSIGNMENT FROM ITS CURRENT OWNER AT THE DEALERSHIP AND AS A RESULT, THEY WILL NOT LET ME TEST DRIVE IT BEFORE PURCHASE. SHOULD THIS BE A "DEAL BREAKER" SINCE EVEN GIVEN THE EXCELLENT CONDITION OF THE CAR, I DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW IT WILL DRIVE AND/OR IF I WILL LIKE THE WAY IT DRIVES? ANY AND ALL INPUT WOULD BE APPRECIATED. THANKS, MIKESTER |