| Author | Message | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 638 Registered: 11-2002 |
I agree with Martin. Why pay so much more for a 355 when you can get all the fun you want in a 348. On top of that is the fact that you can get classic looks. The 348 design combines features from the 328, F40, and Testorossa which IMO makes it a much better looking car! | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4782 Registered: 5-2001 |
Vasilis, thanks for the roses however the liost did not come from me. It is the list that was created by the 348CH owners. I got the base list through Walt Cunningham. I am sure Dave and Walt were heavily involved there to get these SS and CH cars researched. I just added over the years. Billy, You are right in your assessment. However I am not sure if I can follow you here totally. The 348 modified to Challenge was as much an after the fact conversion as the 1995 355 Challenge car from Jon. All 1995 #55CH were modified after being imported as road cars. A properly transformed 348 to Challenge will beat some serious a*s although will not beat or run with the 60 more HP F355 CH. Equal amongst equals. Sure there are cars that will beat the 348. That is not the point though. The question here is not a track car but a road car. Sicne I have had a 348 for 3 years as a daily driver my assessment is the 348 is a great car. Well worth the money. To compare I currently drive a 355B and a 355CH and was driving a 355 Spider for a few months. Except the Challenge car, none were that impressive that I feel I should pay a premium of $30K over a 355 vs 348. As I said my opinion! | ||
| billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Member Username: Fatbillybob Post Number: 286 Registered: 8-2002 |
The 348's are all street cars. They had this kit that made them a challenge car but none are true race cars. The kit is pretty hookie IMHO very added on ala Ferrari. IMHO the 348 Challenge was a poser series. Cars did not get race worthy until the 355's. The 355 is totally more car. Even a stock 355 tb is more race car than the full challenge. My street 348 is basically a challenge car with the kit or most of it and other things the challenge car did not have. I suck as a driver but not that bad. At Laguna seca last month the track leader did 1:44 in a 360 challenge car on slicks. I did one hot lap at 1:59 (unvarified) and several about 2:06 on dot race tires. The 348 is S-L-O-W. The 348 is an old car now dating to 1990 with 80's technology and basically gets killed by WRX's and M3 bmw's. It is not as fast as it looks. The 75hp of the 355 makes a huge difference as does its suspension. If you don't beleive me ask Jon Kofod on this list he is more worth as a racer than me. | ||
| Vasilis K. (Goyal99)
New member Username: Goyal99 Post Number: 15 Registered: 3-2002 |
Dave and the rest of the 348 group: Speaking about the Challenge cars, I think it would be nice to have a place on the Web for other Challenge owners to contribute and perhaps share information on these unique cars. I have taken the liberty of creating a 348 Registry on the web, which includes mostly photos and VIN # of cars for sale online past and present. Obviously there are a lot more 348 cars out there but it's a start....It's a part-time project of mine and I'm always looking for new entries. Martin was also kind enough to contribute with his own 348 Registry information (thanks Martin!). The website is http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Ferrari_348_Registry/ Please feel free to email me your comments and suggestions. Vasilis K. | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 600 Registered: 1-2002 |
A number of owners including me had amassed a list of vin#'s for about 40 of the 45 cars. Where possible, we also had the serie #'s. The interesting thing was that the serie #'s did not follow the vin #'s chronologically. Another mystery! Sherpa, I'll email you later but if you have an emotional attachment to 348's, then the TBchallenge is the ultimate model available in the US. You can get a 355 any time, and even though you plan now to keep it forever, things do change. Dave | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 599 Registered: 1-2002 |
The car that sherpa is looking at is definitely a factory challenge. It was sold by FOD twice that I know of as such, but it does not have any insignia. Neither did Walt Cunningham's although he added it to the motor lid. Here is a pic of my challenge plate. It was mounted on the console although most were mounted on door jambs ala speciales.  | ||
| Dr. Ken Lee (Kenster888)
Junior Member Username: Kenster888 Post Number: 91 Registered: 4-2003 |
Martin, I don't have the serial number with me and I'll post it when I get home. Mine is a US car originally sold from WWoC. According to: http://www.ferrariclub.com/faq/348versions.html The rear track was reverted to 1578mm (same as mine). Thanks in advance! | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4768 Registered: 5-2001 |
You may have a street converted Challenge car. Not to be outdone by the others but not one of made by the factory. The interesting story here is there are numerous 348 Challnege cars in Europe that were built that way by the factory however were never designated at "special" cars or one ofs. They were simply able to import them to these countries without doing new crash tests and such. This is also why the Challenge kit came seperately boxed and was not installed officially by the factory. This circumvented the idea of a different car that needed new release papers for the US government. They imported them as regular 348s with only a different tag on the back. The rear axle is truely wider than a stock 348 from the same year. They are the next generation 348 axles like they put them on the SS and the GTs and GTB and Spiders the following year. | ||
| E. Ryan Sabga (Sherpa23)
New member Username: Sherpa23 Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2003 |
Thanks a ton for your comments, everyone. It is an interesting decision, to say the least. The 348 is an actual car I am looking at but I have not found the 355 berlinetta yet. I know what they're going for and it's not that much more than that 348 challenge. Some more info: I am not going to use the car as a daily driver. I would take it to work from time to time but mostly, I would use it on the weekends and for track events. The 348 is the first Ferrari that I ever truly fell in love with and the challenge version was the ultimate in my mind. It would make a nice car to own in many ways. One thing that I did not mention is that I don't expect to replace this car. This is the Ferrari that I will own and enjoy, and it is unlikely that I will upgrade later. In a way I am looking for a modern classic but something that will be kind of a future classic. The rarity of the Challenge car (even though no one knows what it is) appeals to me for that reason as well. At the same time, I don't want to miss an opportunity to own what might be considered a "better" car in the F355. It's going to be hard decision until I drive them both, and maybe after that it will still be hard. Your advice is very helpful, though. Dave, Yes, you know the car. I am not sure if you got the message I sent you but I saw your car at the show as well (I think). I didn't realize that you owned a 348 challenge. If you could email me off list at pointsracerATaolDOTcom, I would greatly appreciate it. And thanks for the heads up about the 1995's. I knew about the soft valves but was unaware of the header problem. I will be looking for a 1996 then. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4767 Registered: 5-2001 |
Doc post your serial and I can tell you if and what your car is. | ||
| Dr. Ken Lee (Kenster888)
Junior Member Username: Kenster888 Post Number: 90 Registered: 4-2003 |
So that was you Dave! Sorry to hear that you sold your car. If memory serves me correctly, I was puzzled about your letter mentioning wider rear tracks as mine was not widened. I didn't know about the 15 SS cars. Thanks for the info. Mine also came with front and rear tow hooks. Mine didn't come with a number plate so I do not know the production queue. Is there a way to find out? This is all very interesting. Thanks in advance. | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 607 Registered: 11-2002 |
Thanks for that info Dave. I assumed they came from the factory that way when I saw them. Nice to know there are some streetable ones out there. I wonder what it would take to do that to my car! | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4762 Registered: 5-2001 |
Yep, Walt's car. So this is not the car you were refering to at FOD I hope. I know Walt was very very happy with his car last time I talked to him. His whole family is into Ferrari. A true enthusiast who does not mind tracking his car every now and then. Sherpa, as you can see there are good points for a 348CH. Having also driven 355s I still miss the 348. It is a wonderful car with great handling. The 355 has lost some of its feel to the power steering. A more street car. Realy you should drive both and see what you want to use the car for. | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 598 Registered: 1-2002 |
Martin, You are thinking of Walt Cunningham's very beautiful car. I did not own it. Mine was red/black. Walt bought his after seeing mine in a local road rally and asked Bill Orth (FOD sales) aboutit. They happened to be getting the silver one in, so Walt bought it. Mine went to Antonio Sanchez who has been spanking it on tracks a lot since buying it. It is interesting that 3 of the 15 or so never raced cars reside in Colorado but none started out here. Charles, The group of cars that Dr. Lee and I are refering to are completely street legal, road cars as imported. Cosmetically, the only difference is the mounting pads for the roll cage. In 94, there were 15 SS cars sold plus the challenge series. All other 94 348's were spyders. A few buyers of the TB's did not even know they were challenge cars. Some came with plates saying they were car#XX of 32 (or 13 for TS's) For resons never explained satisfactorily, some do not have the plates. There are some mechanical mods like lower gears, challenge exhaust and hotter ecu's but externally there is nothing to tell them from ordinary 348's. The "348challenge" script on the rear was part of the kit and applied after cars were imported. Dr. Lee, I was the one who wrote to Forza pointing out their omission. Dave | ||
| Dr. Ken Lee (Kenster888)
Junior Member Username: Kenster888 Post Number: 89 Registered: 4-2003 |
I have a 94 factory challenge 348. There were only 45 built (32 tb and 13 ts). Added the fact that some of these were converted to track use, the number of street cars is even less. What I'm surprised to find is that most people don't know about the 94 factory challenge 348s (not even contributors of Forza...go figure). This model was not mentioned in their buyer guide. Someone had to write them a letter to tell them about the 94 FC (I forgot which issue, but I believe it was one or two issues after the 348 buyer guide). Futhermore, they talked about GTS/GTB versions which were not available in the US (goes to show how much they really know about the 348s). So as Martin suggests, check the serial number to make sure you have a real 94 FC. Cosmetically, it is difficult to tell one apart (because most 348 owners paint the bottom panels and the engine lid to match the car color...this makes the car look 100% better IMHO). The front grill is different with different number of slabs and in the rear it has the script badge 348 challenge (see my profile). The interior has predrilled holes for the challenge kit. Since this is the last of the 348s, it has all the upgrades/modifications and it is a blast to drive and the one to own (ok, except the mad-mouse belts). A premium? Yes. Worth it? Yes. However, I do not know what place this model will be in Ferrari history. Rare? Yes. But it is just another 348  So buy it because you want it! Maintenance is similar to the 355. I personally like the looks of the 348. The 355 has more horsepower and is a more refined car (I would stay away from the 95s). The 348 is also cheaper than the 355 so that might be your motivation. You can't go wrong with either car. I will get a 355/360 in the future, but can tell you my FC is not for sale. Goodluck. | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 604 Registered: 11-2002 |
Sherpa, it depends on what you plan to do with it. all of the challenge cars I've ever seen were not equipped for the street. I imagine the people that installed the kits made them that way. You will most likely need to do a bit of work on it to put it back in street trim. The ones I've seen were missing headlights, wipers, most if not all of the interior, and some even needed glass as they had some plexiglass in place of windows. If you are looking for a street car get the 355. If you don't care about street use get the challenge car. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4760 Registered: 5-2001 |
Dave that would not be the silver 348 Challenge would it? Walt's I mean? | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 597 Registered: 1-2002 |
Sherpa, I used to own one of the 32 TB factory challenge cars made in 1994. I put 14K miles on it over 2.5 years before selling it. These are interesting cars both for their rarity and being the first to come from the factory with some mods. They are regarded as the best 348's made i.e, lightest, quickest, best handling and being late production they had the worst of 348 bugs eliminated. As for the drivinig experience, they are edgy with a hard ride, lots of kick back through the steering, etc. The motor is a great one. On the track, I never really liked the way it handled but other owners have told me that 18 inch wheels and fatter rubber makes a big difference, but I always used the stock 17's. At a national meet track event a few years ago, I easily overtook other 348's in it even though I'm not that experienced of a track driver. I never owned a 355, only drove one once about 6 years ago, so memory has greatly faded. I can tell you from being on tracks with them that they have a lot more power. I did quite a bit of research on the 348 when I had it. About half of the 32 were actually raced in the series, the others just street cars. The challenge kits which included roll cages, seats, etc were sold separately but the cars were delivered with the cage mounting pads already welded in place. If you like rarity and a story, the 348 is a great car. Trouble is, very few people even know they exist. When Forza did it's buyer's guide a few years ago they listed the serie speciale as the rare ones, omitting the challenge series completely. If you are considering an early 355, you should know they had valve guide trouble and craked header problems, both very expensive to fix. If you are considering the 348 for sale in Denver, I know the car and it is immaculate. The owner is the type of person I like to buy cars from because of the care he gives them. I last saw the car Sunday. DAve | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4747 Registered: 5-2001 |
Find out if the Challenge is a true one of Challenge. There is a plate in the passenger side door jam that will tell you. Or give me the serial and I can check in my list. If it is an unraced Challenge it is just like any other 348. The difference if it is one of is there are only so few and it is somewhat a collector item. Pay only a slight premium for that though. I would not spend $ 70K or more for the 348. The 355 is a great car but not as pure as the 348. It really is a looks thing at the end of the day. 355 has more HP as well. 60 more to be exact. | ||
| E. Ryan Sabga (Sherpa23)
New member Username: Sherpa23 Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2003 |
Okay, I have an "ownership" question for you, my more knowledgable and more experienced brethren. I know that I need to drive both and see which I prefer but which car would you prefer to OWN - an unraced 348 Challenge or a 355 Berlinetta? Assumptions: both are immaculate and have been thoroughly cared for and the 355 has about 16k-20k miles vs 12k for the Challenge car. What are the advantages of one over the other, including such things as maintenance, reliability, and long term appeal (not so much for resale but more along the lines of its place in Ferrari history). I would like to get an idea about these things so that I can factor them in properly with the driving experience. Thanks in advance. |