| Author | Message | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1070 Registered: 11-2002 |
Speed 8 has me drooling still. I was looking at some kit cars too in an Off Topic thread. I didn't know they made GT40 ones. Now that is a TOY! That would be fun. I like the new GT40 by the way. I have yet to see it in person, let alone drive it, so I'll reserve judgement until then. Cheers | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 754 Registered: 4-2002 |
"I would rather buy an E.R.A replica (http://www.erareplicas.com/gt/gt.htm) myself ... at least it is an accurate replica and would feel like the awesome original." You could just call up Hollman and Moody and have them build you an original, complete with a FE side oiler engine if you wanted. It would not even be a REPLICA, it would be the real thing! | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1630 Registered: 10-2002 |
Don is correct. The Autoweek article is worth reading. The car Ford benchmarked (They even bought and took one apart) is the 360. The chassis is very stiff, stiffer than the 360. If they can keep the weight down and the hp at 550 it, as will the baby Lambo, give the 360 a run. That said there is something ephermal about many Ferrari's for me trancends being a car and turns them into works of art. It's much like women. For me it's not about numbers but is about "a certin something" (Je ne c'est quois). Pete is right. The tub in the MKI,MKII,MKIII are steel but the tub in the MK-IV is alum/honeycomb/composite. (Quite advanced for 33 years ago. The new Ford GT body is alum. Quite a bit of work to form. I'm sure Ferrari is aware of the new Ford and the baby Lambo and as they always do, will rise to the occasion with the 420. The Speed Eight, now that is one beautiful fast mutherfucker... PS this one isn't too hard to look at either.  | ||
| Don Jet (Jet328gts)
New member Username: Jet328gts Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2003 |
If you read the latest Autoweek there is a nice article on the Ford GT. Sound like a unique blend of new and old technology. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1284 Registered: 5-2002 |
Mark, I may be a 4th grader, but I still know that a 200 mph race car would be required to have numerous safety systems before it would be allowed on the track. Once again I ask, does the new GT-40 have any of those safety systems that are required of genuine "race" cars? If not, then it is a street car. And what is the intended market for a 200 mph "grocery getter"??? | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 696 Registered: 9-2002 |
Mark, I dont know Audis to well to tell the truth, I just remembered it from a BMW comparo which is above, and cited here. For the record the BMW E38 750iL won.  Also, the newest jag XJ is also the same. As is the new Rolls....and the baby lambo...the Garallado or whatever. There is a few others too, let me think...If i recall, BMW is doing something with it or another as well.... Oh and what the Ferrari guys are saying is that the car doesn't break any new ground in terms of tech, esp. the engine which is semi-old school tech...fact is fact. And thus many can't justify its price. (but then an exotic's price is something most cant justify anyway) I personally like the car...it looks cool, but it should be, due to the parts used, far far cheaper. Can the same be said for Ferrari? In the eyes of some yes, others no. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 509 Registered: 10-2001 |
Pete - I enjoyed your last post. I like when people have something to share. Instead of just beating up on the other guys car. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 508 Registered: 10-2001 |
I give up! This is like talking to a bunch of 4th graders. I get it. Ferrair is GOD and everything else is Stupid. I'm sure FORD motor company is celebrating its 100th birthday with a POS kit car. If Ferrari came out with a new car every 6 months I wouldn't even try to talk about the other exotics. I guess that fantasic car I saw at the Detroit auto show.. was just a pile of ••••. Thanks Ferrari guys for teaching me something. I swear its like talking to 4th gradders. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 497 Registered: 11-2002 |
Mark,
I think you will find that some (if not all) of the original GT40s back in the 60's where made out of aluminium tubs. I know the Mk1's where steel but I believe that the later ones like Jim's are alloy. Also most Can Am tubs where alloy ... I guess Honda should be applauded for bringing this OLD technology to road cars. The main reason they don't use if for road cars is that it does not dampen vibrations like steel, because it is so much more rigid. We really should not get too excited about supercars and new technology. Supercars are using very old and simplicitic technology to do their bit. Far more clever technology in a Honda Accord/Civic, ie. they can make a car that can do 120+mph and have amazing fuel economy and between service mileage and cost so little ... Supercars are inefficent (fuel and space wise) and costs a fortune and cannot handle every situation with the same composure the Civic can ... Pete | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 507 Registered: 10-2001 |
I didn't know any car's besides NSX, Ford GT and 360 are using suuperformed aluminum bodies? I know Alcon set up a whole new factory at Ferrari to work on bringing the cost of this technology into mainstream car manufactoring. I don't know if they've made progress. I know the material is very hard to work with. and expensive. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1283 Registered: 5-2002 |
"include all the racing components and newest light-weight materials." Does this mean that the new GT-40 will be a race contender off the showroom floor? I doubt it. I don't think it would have all the required safety features and equipment. At the least, does it have an on board fire extinguisher system? An external battery cut off switch? I never understood why a company would bother to make a car capable of going 200 mph if it was not REALLY competative in the racing world. If it can't compete in the racing competition world, what's the point of building it to go 200 mph? Is somebody going to be driving at 200 mph down a two lane highway on their way to Grandma's house? | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 496 Registered: 11-2002 |
Well put William, the NEW Ford GT is a replica of a 40 year old design ... hardly what I would spend my hard earned money on. Who wants to buy a new car with old technology, engine and chassis, when we know that Ford is capable of so much more! Why did Ford just not make a modern car to carry on the tradition. This would be a carbon fibre tubbed car like the Bentley 8 (is that what their Le Mans car is) and had one of their 4 cam/4 valves per cylinder fuel injected v8s in it putting out around 800+ hp. With the depleted field racing in Le Mans at the moment they would have a very good chance of repeating their famous domination of the race ... and it would probably cost similar to creating a road replica/retro piece of rubbish that will only be bought by people who probably have no idea of Ford's racing effort. I would rather buy an E.R.A replica (http://www.erareplicas.com/gt/gt.htm) myself ... at least it is an accurate replica and would feel like the awesome original. Shame on these lazy companies trying to copy their past, instead of correctly copying the strategy/philosophy/direction that made it such a great move back them. It's like Alfa Romeo recreating the P3 single seater instead of creating a up to date competitive single seater that can bring single seater racing glory back to the company. Ford just do not get it  Pete | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 693 Registered: 9-2002 |
Arn't most current Audi's (and all future) all alu. space-frame? | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 506 Registered: 10-2001 |
The 91 NSX showed the world the future of Halo cars when it used aluminum to build a light weight mid-engine super sports car. Ferrari liked the idea enough to build the 360 out of aluminum in 1999. Now Ford is building the GT... you can't use this technology and come in with a car under $80k even if you wanted to. A car that is going to represent one of the biggest most powerful car companies in the world will be a marvel of engineering and include all the racing components and newest light-weight materials. | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 692 Registered: 9-2002 |
They should of priced it slightly less than or equal to a vette...then they would sell like hot cakes IMO. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1282 Registered: 5-2002 |
"The Ford GT is just a replica with a low tech engine" Exactly. No reason why they should cost $100,000. They could crank them out for $30,000 if they wanted to. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2626 Registered: 2-2001 |
Frank, the F40, & 288GTO were based on the 308 they were not replicas of 40 year old designs & they used very high tech for their time. The Ford GT is just a replica with a low tech engine, nothing like an F40 or a GTO | ||
| Patrick Denonville (Arizonaguy)
Junior Member Username: Arizonaguy Post Number: 219 Registered: 4-2003 |
I don't see why you don't like Ferrari being compared with Fords...Henry Ford was trying to buy Ferrari in the 60's and was also trying to make a joint venture with Enzo Ferrari to make a LeMans car, when Enzo Ferrari rejected Ford made a car that would beat the pants off of Ferrari at LeMans, and have done it several times. Then later on down the road Ferrari gets bought out by Fiat...which is uh...yea. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1629 Registered: 10-2002 |
That was already done. Since Ford beat them at LeMans Ferrari has never won there again. | ||
| ELI (Titanium360)
Member Username: Titanium360 Post Number: 442 Registered: 4-2002 |
Wow! we are at a point of comparing Ford with Ferrari? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1627 Registered: 10-2002 |
Mark I can't imagine the clutch being a problem. These have so much torque they pull from very low rpm. Exhaust can be muffled and on the street that gives you more low and mid range torque. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 504 Registered: 10-2001 |
James, that's Great! Cars that can be used for both are so much more fun. Could the one I saw have been hopped-up for racing? The car was way to loud (sounded like a beast just sitting still at a stop light). Car looked like it had trouble getting rolling with a race clutch and an extremly high idle. Guy was working hard to drive it through the streets? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1625 Registered: 10-2002 |
Mark Having put 20,000 street miles on this one I have to disagree that they aren't street cars... BTW Mark Donohue agreed with me. On the Mulsanne at 223 he said it felt like a big Caddilac that could cruise forever...  | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Intermediate Member Username: Ross Post Number: 1274 Registered: 3-2002 |
arguments of performance vs value aside, i like the car. i loved the originals but unless jim g is going to adopt me, i won't be able to afford one too soon. so i lust after the repro model and hope to get a used one someday. the prices will drop off after a couple years and settle around half the price of new, w/ few miles on them, and that will suit me just fine. | ||
| Jeff Howe (Ferrari_uk)
Member Username: Ferrari_uk Post Number: 316 Registered: 12-2002 |
This sure is a wierd and varied thread ! To add my 2pence or 2cents-worth.... I think the Ford GT looks great; I preferred the original Viper RT/10 shape to the latest models (in the UK we had to sell them as Chrysler Vipers as Dodge badge is used by Renault Truck) The Original GT40 was a fantastic looking car too. I would not buy ANY of them however as gasoline is $7.50 a gallon over here !! Unless I won the lottery ! Have a nice day ! | ||
| Mark Lambert (Mlambert890)
Junior Member Username: Mlambert890 Post Number: 89 Registered: 4-2002 |
Hey! There's actually something the Ferrari, Viper and Corvette crowds are agreeing on! Everyone hates the GT (big surprise)! Now if the Ferrari guys could just agree that the Enzo is ugly (the prevalent Corvette guy opinion) and 308 drivers are poseurs (the big Viper guy topic), there would be complete harmony in automotive cyberspace! I'm sure they'd be willing to agree that Vipers and Vettes are still just Dodges and Chevys as a concession. Sorry for the sarcasm, but I've got to think that it's only in the weird world of extreme online automotive fandom that the new GT would be regarded as having nothing worth looking at... | ||
| Patrick Denonville (Arizonaguy)
Junior Member Username: Arizonaguy Post Number: 218 Registered: 4-2003 |
Mark, there are 399 Enzo's, not 350...And there are around 1,350 F40's,not 2000 | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 501 Registered: 10-2001 |
Ford has a lot of specialty shops. Don't they own Cosworth? Projects in Detroit get farmed out to special engineering firms that work with the major car companies on their low volume projects. Plus I guessed they learned from Ferrari. I think Ferrrari is a Bastard for only making 350 Enzos. They had all the engineering why not 2000 like the F40 so we could all have a chance at affording one some day. Thanks a lot Ferrari... | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1277 Registered: 5-2002 |
But surely with Fords manufacturing facilities being larger than Ferrari, they could crank out new GT-40s like fresh baked apple pies, if they really wanted to. Of course I forgot to take into account the loses from the ill fated retro T-bird project. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 500 Registered: 10-2001 |
Arlie, That's easy to answer. Take the aluminum 360 @400hp costing $169k and knock off $20k for the Ferrari name premium. and you have the cost of the GT 40 @ 500hp. Brakes suspension and all the parts to make a car in this speed class and weight $150k | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1276 Registered: 5-2002 |
Will somebody tell me why a new GT-40 will cost $100,000 (or whatever) to produce, yet it contains no more metal or other raw materials in its construction that any other vehicle. And it's not like GT-40 technology of the 1960s couldn't be easily reproduced with today's computer controlled design and manufacturing techniques. And it's not like the car is going to have a LeMans capable engine AND full emissions compliance which would require high dollar development. It all seems like another Viper type experiment in the making. If the new GT-40 is so great and so marketable, why not sell them for $30,000 and sell a WHOLE BUNCH of them. Or is Ford just trying to limit production to keep demand up and the price high? | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 499 Registered: 10-2001 |
I've seen the 1966 GT40 in action. Followed one around durring the WoodWard Cruise in Detroit...and its not a street car. Race car only. That's what's nice about the new Ford GT, it is a street car, not just a track/race car. The car industry knows that each make needs a Halo car to get people to come in the dearlership. Acura looses money on every NSX but it give Honda a big bang for the buck amoung Honda buyers all around the world. ( I know Ferrair guys aren't impressed, but we are the few.) This is the reason FORD is building the GT 40 it will bring all kinds of traffic into the show-room. Car companies are very smart. Everyone has a list in their head. If I could spend more then $100k on a car my list would be. 1. Enzo 2. F50 3. Lambo Murcielago 4. Ford GT 5. 360 spider I think the McClearn and Saleen S7 are a bit too much for a useable street car. | ||
| David R. (Rodsky)
Junior Member Username: Rodsky Post Number: 56 Registered: 3-2003 |
There have been no tests of the Ford GT to my knowledge. I read both road & track and car and driver and there were no tests of it. The GT has 500 HP and a ton of torque. It will be faster than a VIPER and close to MURCI numbers. It will probably do 0-60 in the high 3's and 1/4 mile in 12 or slightly less. but from there down to Enzo or Mclaren territory is hard. Just as going from Enzo down into the 2's (0-60) requires millions (aka F1) | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1624 Registered: 10-2002 |
Mark Ford spent 72 million 1960ies dollars on the original. 10,000 people were involved. The Brunswick Aerospace corp stopped the B1 Bomber line to make the MK-IV tub. The original used technology that had never been used before on a car. At a time when the fastest Ferrari the P4 went 199mph on the Mulsanne the MK-IV went 223. The MK-IV remains the only car made in America to ever have won the 24 hours of LeMans. The new one is fine for what it is; but it's not, nor could it be, given the economic realities of today, what the originals were. The originals are a part of history. The new ones are an homage to that history. My wife asked the local gas jockey if he had gone to the NY car. He replied that he had and had seen the new Ford GT. She asked him what he thought. He replied: "Not much I see a real one drive by every sunday..." | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 1861 Registered: 8-2002 |
Here are some great pics for those who might be interested: http://www.0-100.it/desktop/ford/ford.htm | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 589 Registered: 2-2003 |
An article Patrick D has on the Ford GT development has a quote answering why they're building it and it was something to the effect, "Polishing the oval." Also, what was or has been Ford's "halo" car? What Fords kicked ass and took names in the supercar/high end sports car arena? Thats a very short list. Designing a supercar from the ground up with their financial difficulties resulted in the Ford GT compromise, at least its what I think until dissuaded. Sunny | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 497 Registered: 10-2001 |
If you saw the GT40 in person you'd be very impressed! No-way to think for a second this is a kit car or a joke. The car's engineering and build quality is amazing! I wonder how many guys have written it off with out seeing it? No one that saw one of the first 3 cars at the shows (and heard the engine when they cranked it up) could have any doubt. Car is as impressive as the orginal that Ford staked its rep on. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 495 Registered: 11-2002 |
New Ford GT is a lame attempt for a company that has lost direction to regain something ... steering failure in the face. Original Ford GT40, one of the all time great designs for all the right reasons. Ford could have chosen to do it all again, but instead stuck their head in the sand ... GM must be laughing! Enzo ... no comment anymore, you know what I think, but atleast it is not a retro vehicle. Pete | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1622 Registered: 10-2002 |
Arlie It's amazing that your brain can store an image like that forever. The one that stuck with me was the 330TRI straight from winning LeMans at the NY Autoshow in 63. (I was 13) It was covered in dirt from the race. I can still see that sweat stained seat... | ||
| James Dunne (Audiguy)
New member Username: Audiguy Post Number: 36 Registered: 6-2003 |
Frank, We have all seen these discussions before. I could take $15K and put it into a big block American muscle car or a ricer and make it accelerate as quick or quicker than the Enzo or GT40. Does this make them better than either of the above named supercars??? I think not, just quicker. To drop 10ths of a second off a 0-60 time once you are in the 3 second range takes exponentially more hp and traction than it does to drop times off a car doing 6 sec 0-60. If you are doing 0-60 in 6 secs and add 100 hp, you may drop to 5.6 or 5.7. If you are doing 3.37 0-60 and add 100 hp, your time may drop to 3.33. And to drop another 4/100s off the 3.33 would even require a larger hp increase or a better way of getting the power to the ground. When you said that you hoped that Ferrari could get more than a 1/10 improvement for the extra money, there is much more to it. As mentioned earlier, downforce, handling, carbon fiber, technology just to name a few. The Enzo is a totally new design to the highest degree. The GT40 for as good as it is is a retro adaptation with a lot of power to make it accelerate quickly. Truly not in the same league with the Enzo. As much power-yes, as much acceleration-yes, as much refinement and high-tech appeal-not at all. Two different design philosophies entirely. Now you have my $.02 worth plus a few. For whatever that is worth. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1272 Registered: 5-2002 |
James, for what it's worth, I was also attending a racing event around June of 1967. Only 10 years old at the time, we were at a local sports car hill climb. As I was watching an MG or Triumph through my binoculars as it came roaring up the hill, the tires hit some loose gravel and it went into a slide. Some poor lady was sitting in a lawn chair a little too close to the outside of the turn and she had to dive out of the chair as the car plowed off the road. Luckily she only got a scratched knee. Don't remember any Ferraris around that day. But for a 10 year old kid in a small town, it was a big day with lots of neat cars to be seen. The closest thing to LeMans that we had. | ||
| Lucas Taratus (Karmavore)
Junior Member Username: Karmavore Post Number: 223 Registered: 12-2002 |
"How about an Enzo vs. a Ford GT40 driven by Mike Ditka? " LOL!!! | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 330 Registered: 4-2001 |
Hmm. It's not a few 1/10 s that you get for the extra money. You will get 785 kg of pure downforce at 300 km/h, which means a few 1/10 more of lateral g's, deceleration and improved handling. On track that means "blowing doors off...." My new toy does the 1/4 mile in 10.4 s but I still prefer my Ferrari. Ciao Peter | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1621 Registered: 10-2002 |
Patrick No I think that's Bruce McLaren. I didn't become a custodian of J6 until 1990. On that June day in 1967 I was a teenager back in the US racing my 54 Studeabaker with a 421 Pontiac engine at the local dragstrip and listening to the race at LeMans on my Shortwave... | ||
| Patrick Denonville (Arizonaguy)
Junior Member Username: Arizonaguy Post Number: 215 Registered: 4-2003 |
James, would this be you getting into your car? http://www.ford-gt.com/mk4/mk427.jpg From my friend Drew's site. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1620 Registered: 10-2002 |
See the guy leaning on the BP sign? I've got the mechanic's pit pass armband he's wearing. I've probably got that headlight cover somewhere as well... | ||
| Patrick Denonville (Arizonaguy)
Junior Member Username: Arizonaguy Post Number: 214 Registered: 4-2003 |
I see...Do you still have cracked headlight cover from the car?From the drivers side... | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1619 Registered: 10-2002 |
In 67 they raced both MK-IV's and MKIIB's. | ||
| Patrick Denonville (Arizonaguy)
Junior Member Username: Arizonaguy Post Number: 213 Registered: 4-2003 |
James, how come there is an MK2 in that photo? Were they runing Mixed GT40's? | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 866 Registered: 1-2002 |
Frank, In the "automotive" styling world the term "retro" equates to "burned penis with a blow torch"; in other words most designers would never admit to styling any of their cars under the "retro" banner; in the lectures I've atteneded at the Art Center in Pasadena (Chris Bangel came from there, and the man that designed the Enzo is a lecturer) "retro" is rehash. And, so you know, I like MANY cars more than I do Ferraris. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1617 Registered: 10-2002 |
Patrick My car (#2) has the same dreams...  | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2433 Registered: 9-2001 |
I too think the GT looks good. In fact, IMHO it looks better than the Enzo. But, I guess I like the retro look as I like the 550/575 much better than the 360 and the Viper better than the Vette and so forth. What is it with some people who refuse to like a car JUST because it isn't a Ferrari. There are a lot of nice cars out there that are not made by Ferrari. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1616 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hugh Hey at LeMans that would only put you about 160 miles ahead but who's counting... | ||
| Patrick Denonville (Arizonaguy)
Junior Member Username: Arizonaguy Post Number: 212 Registered: 4-2003 |
Correction William, it is not a 4.6 From a mustang, its a 5.4 from a truck with a supercharger and lots of other goodies! And Dan I don't think the GT had crappy retro styling....I guess the 456 is the same because it looks like a Daytona? The GT will be a great car, there is no doubt about it...I hope to see it at LeMans even though FoMoCo had no intent to race it. I would really appreciate a 1-2-3 finish again! | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 865 Registered: 1-2002 |
Frank: The enzo's 0-100 is 6.6 seconds; the GT40 is : 8.6 seconds. In a "racing" situtation (have you EVER been on a racetrack in one of your cars?) that equates to: "... Oh, gee, Charlie you got left for dead back there... what happened?" Beyond the above, and as for "value" being part of your comparison criteria/um that's a totally subjective issue, and is IRRELAVENT to true enthusiast (much like magazine times, and interent comparisons ) b/c we buy these cars out of an admiration, love, respect , or to simply have them to drive, polish, and drive some more. I look for value in home PC's , in my health care program, and in my laundry detergent... my obsession with automobiles, motorcycles, and racing doesn't even cast a shadow into the realm of rational discourse, where diatribes about "value" begin. Happy motoring, Frank. | ||
| neal (95spiderneal)
Junior Member Username: 95spiderneal Post Number: 161 Registered: 3-2002 |
the comparo for the ford gt is viper not the italians. ford will stop making them same as with new tbird that was also a marketplace bust. sorry to hijack but who would take this over a viper? | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Member Username: Davel Post Number: 286 Registered: 7-2001 |
Yep. GT is a cheap overhyped captilization of a famous race car of which a few were made for the street. Toss in a supercharged Cobra Mustang motor, and add retro bodywork and wow...a whatever car. Compared to the Saleen S-7 with a purpose designed normally aspirated motor and you have what the GT will only dream of being. Ford went cheap. Whats new... | ||
| Tom RM (Tgitom)
Junior Member Username: Tgitom Post Number: 128 Registered: 8-2002 |
whats up with the murci time for quarter mile... seems really high... come on its gotta do better than that with a 3.8 second 0-60 run..sheesh.........when the real ford gt comes out then they can really put out what it does.. as of now its still speculation...the car isnt out yet | ||
| Dan 360 (Dan360)
Junior Member Username: Dan360 Post Number: 57 Registered: 2-2003 |
OK lets make this a 360 vs Ford GT - which would I buy? thread Supercharged kit car engine vs Flat plane 5valve 8800 rpm. 1-0 Italy. Crappy retro styling vs Pininfarina. 2-0. (I shall hence forth refer to the GT40 as the BeetleMiniSport, its the same brand closet raiding stuff). Game stopped at this point due to there being no need for further comparison. I'm the target buyer in this comparison (I have a 360, getting a 360CS). Ford isn't even on the list for me. I'm normally a "let all brands live since I'm an enthusiast" kind of guy, but I permitted myself this GT40 flamer... | ||
| Paul Green (Diesirae)
New member Username: Diesirae Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2001 |
How about an Enzo vs. a Ford GT40 driven by Mike Ditka?  | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 492 Registered: 10-2001 |
Frank, William is right. This should be called 360 vs. Ford GT What will 400hp 360's sell for in 2 years? I'm guessing they are headed south of $100k Ford GT 500hp $150k 4,500 coming to the market BMW 2005 M6 500hp $90k (fastest BMW ever) Baby Lambo ?hp $175k a few thousand cars a year New Ferrari 420? 500hp and under $200k? The market is going to be full of choices. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2430 Registered: 9-2001 |
William, so the 288GTO, F40 or the turbo era Ferrari F1 cars shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as the Enzo either ? | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2623 Registered: 2-2001 |
The Ford GT doesnt deserve to be mentioned in the same sentance as the Enzo. For Fks sake its a supercharged Mustang 4.6 V8 out of an econo sports car with a body robbed from a 1960s. Its an attractive car but the Saleen S7 should be compared to the Enzo not the silly GT | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1610 Registered: 10-2002 |
Frank "the Ford GT outperforms the Enzo for 1/5 the cost!" It doesn't. It cost less. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 491 Registered: 10-2001 |
Ford GT is not looking for a fight with the Enzo. Just like the Baby Lambo, Ford GT is going after the Ferrari 360 buyer. I love this because it will push Ferrari to really come out with a great 360 replacement faster. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2428 Registered: 9-2001 |
Martin, I agree. But, the tests were done by different drivers too and the 2/10 second difference in a 0-60mph time could be due to the driver rather than the car. And, while I know that the GT is no Ferrari, it is a pretty good looking American exotic that performs well and is reasonably priced. Remember the original GT40 beat the best Ferrari had back in the late 60s too. While I would rather have an Enzo, for $150k I would rather have the GT than a 360 or 550/575. And I LOVE the 550/575. | ||
| Paul Bianco (Paulie_b)
Member Username: Paulie_b Post Number: 284 Registered: 1-2003 |
IMO, I'm with Martin on this. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4779 Registered: 5-2001 |
Frank, close does not cut it on the performance line. Just ask the Minardi Team about being only 1/2 a second off on a 3 Mile race course. Those are the infamous 1/10th of a second on the 1/4 mile that win a race or let you come in last. Of course if you see it purely performance a souped up Honda will beat the Enzo in a standing start and yes, the clutch for the damn Honda is only a fraction. Put them on the track for laps and the Honda will not see the Enzo for 3 laps till he is being lapped the first time. I know what you mean Frank but the assumption is wrong. If you are looking for 0-60 Times as a relation to price a Dondge Dart with Nitros will do just fine and will cost you not even one tenth of the Ford GT. You can actually buy that for the price of the disk brake pads on the Enzo. Take the Mc Laren into consideration and the difference is not that much more either to the GT. Again once you take it to the track these "insignificant differences" will make a significant difference. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4778 Registered: 5-2001 |
The S600 the 1/4 mile at 12.5 ??? DAMN!!!! is that whith the kids playing DVDs in the back or without? Holly sh*t. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2426 Registered: 9-2001 |
James, wrong about what? My first post only states from the tests I have read that the GT "outperforms" the Enzo . Price IS a legtimate part of a products performance comparison. My second post was qualified with "as I recall" and, my later posts only stated that the numbers were "close" and "almost the same". From the numbers you posted yourself that appears to be the case. And for $150k we should all shout at Ferrari that they should do much better for $650k than a few 1/10 a second. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1609 Registered: 10-2002 |
Frank As one who professes to read the good book should know shouting the truth from the rooftops is the only moral thing to do. You were wrong. Instead of attacking me you should admit it. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2425 Registered: 9-2001 |
Martin, I agree that the final GT production car numbers may be different. But, for $150k the GT promises to be one great car at one great price . Good grief James, are you TheDon's twin brother or what ? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1608 Registered: 10-2002 |
Car & Driver Enzo 0-60 3.3 0-100 6.6 1/4 11.2@136 S7 3.3 7.6 11.6 @126 Murci 3.8 9.5 12.6@116 New GT40 3.5 8.6 11.8@120 est. Pagani 3.7 est. S600 4.3 9.7 12.5@115 Gallardo 3.9 8.2 12.2@122 est. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4777 Registered: 5-2001 |
oups alledged, my spelling sucks! butt whoo dit nod knov dat  | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4776 Registered: 5-2001 |
Frank they are guessing what the GT could be capable of. If my memory serves me right, and it seldom does, the Enzo is guessed to be capable of 300MPH and was just toned down to comply with things like DOT standards. I guess they were afraid I may try the 300MPH on I95 in rush hour traffic. I do not buy into any of this crap till you have a capable driver test the cars on the track. They are drumming up sales for the GT before it is out. Ford is a major sponsor and ad contributor to R$T and other magazines published that perform these aledged road tests! | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1607 Registered: 10-2002 |
Frank Read the numbers again. Once again you are wrong. Why are you incapable of admiting you are wrong? | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2424 Registered: 9-2001 |
James, as I have never driven an Enzo or a Ford GT, I can't say for sure. But, there are recent tests in Automobile, Road and Track and Autoweek on the GT40 and the Enzo as well as a test on the Enzo in Forza. Read the tests and compare the numbers yourself. And, I was wrong once when I had thought I was mistaken on an issue and turned out to be correct. Just kidding. But, if you read the tests you will note some of the Ford GT numbers are with a smaller chassis test engine and some are with the larger engine that the final production car will get. The numbers with the larger engine are almost the same as the Enzo numbers. | ||
| Matt (Matt_lamotte)
Member Username: Matt_lamotte Post Number: 407 Registered: 10-2002 |
What magazine are you reading? | ||
| Tom RM (Tgitom)
Junior Member Username: Tgitom Post Number: 127 Registered: 8-2002 |
The Ford GT is not even out yet!!! and there are no pre production cars in a magazine test fleet to give any real numbers. So i dont know if this magazine is guessing or what... thats my opinion so far on that | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1606 Registered: 10-2002 |
As often is the case you're wrong Frank. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2422 Registered: 9-2001 |
I don't have the articles here, but as I recall the 0-60mph times, 1/4 mile times and cornering numbers all were close to the times of the Enzo. The GT cost $150k. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1092 Registered: 10-2001 |
elaborate please . | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2420 Registered: 9-2001 |
From the magazine test I have been reading the Ford GT outperforms the Enzo for 1/5 the cost ! Does anyone have their name on the list for a Ford GT ? It seems like it's going to be an awesome car. |