| Author |
Message |
Mark (Study)
Member
Username: Study
Post Number: 513
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 11:36 pm: | |
Jaime-
After learning about timing belts on a cheap American car...
I had a company car from my job so I bought a 308 for the weekends. When I changed jobs and lost the company car, I traded the 308 for a NSX and drove it every day for 110k miles.
Now I have neither. Was going to buy a 355 but prices keep falling and now I'm not sure if I should hold-out a little longer and get a 360? |
Jaime T. Ferraris are sex on wheels (Chevarri)
Junior Member
Username: Chevarri
Post Number: 106
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 11:22 pm: | |
Hey Mark making fun of Mustangs works for me, what car did you end up geting? |
Mark (Study)
Member
Username: Study
Post Number: 512
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 10:54 pm: | |
vette is the car. I just wanted to make a bad joke.
(PS I had a mustang in High School, forgot to put oil in it, and the timing belt broke but still a good car. Just have to laugh cause all my friends had them and thought they were BIG SHOTS. I just wanted to trash mine as soon as possable and buy something more sleek.) |
Jaime T. Ferraris are sex on wheels (Chevarri)
Junior Member
Username: Chevarri
Post Number: 104
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 10:34 pm: | |
"Which car was God driving?"
Im not big on "God" or any other gods for that matter, but I dont think "he" would drive a Ferrari or any other exotic. I think he would drive an electric car, a hybrid, or some econo-box, its just more humbling.
"USA - Mustang ( I would hate being born in USA)"
Mustang? Last time I checked the Corvette was and still is "Americas sports car" and is Americas pride, not a Mustang, and it never will be. Where did you get Mustang from Mark? Mustang, hog wash.
William's post of the comic store owner is hilarious. 
|
Mark (Study)
Member
Username: Study
Post Number: 511
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 9:56 pm: | |
ture pure 100% religion is geographical brainwashing
North America - Christian
Middle East - Muslim
India - Hindu
China/Tibet - Buddhist.
I'm so glad something really important like cars aren't as stupidly assigned to 50% of the masses before they are old enough to think for themselfs.
Italy - Ferrari ( would be lucky )
Germany - P-car ( not so bad off)
USA - Mustang ( I would hate being born in USA)
Japan - NSX ( not so bad )
This would be M-chat. We could all talk about how fast our homely (toasters on wheels, body shape) super cars are in the good old land where we just happened to be born. |
will h (Willh)
Junior Member
Username: Willh
Post Number: 103
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 9:03 pm: | |
Is it OT to talk about Montoya and Gordon? I'm probably - ahem - preaching to the choir, but I found watching Montoya in the Cup car kind of boring, but loved Gordon in the Williams - the technology, the speed and braking, the sound - incredible. Been watching F1 since the mid-80s, and haven't tired of it yet. Nothing against NASCAR or Gordon ....
On, I think, the topic, sheesh Rob, your comments about "followers v leaders" and levels of intelligence make me wince. I do agree with those contemporary Christian leaders who argue that Christianity has too often been presented, by well meaning folks, in a paternalistic, sanctimonious and "lame" fashion that tends to undermine evangelistic goals. |
Eric Jones (Tweetfaip)
New member
Username: Tweetfaip
Post Number: 16
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 4:53 pm: | |
Just a quick comment about Christianity and faith.
Frank and Terry have spoken pretty accurately from what I have seen. They are not judging anyone, just presenting the facts as we know them to be. But nobody can make this decision for you, you should research the Bible's accuracy and credibility for yourself.
Here are a couple of books that are available at Amazon.com that I think would satisfy hard, scientific, and rational examination:
"Who Moved the Stone" by Frank Morrison
"The Testimony of the Evangelists: The Four Gospels Examined by the Rules of Evidence" by Simon Greenleaf
Decide for yourself, but do approach the subject with a open and critical mind free of preconceived notions and prejudices.
Back to Ferrari's
Eric
|
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 5323
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 4:02 pm: | |
BTW, I started it, so does it mean I'm banned?!? 
"I kinda like Jeff, except being a hypocritical Christian" |
William Huber (Solipsist)
Intermediate Member
Username: Solipsist
Post Number: 1093
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 2:47 pm: | |
Wow, this topic is ruined. I was hoping someone was going to post pics from Gordon and Montoya trading cars, not to come over here & find a religious debate. |
Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
Junior Member
Username: Robertgarven
Post Number: 160
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 2:19 pm: | |
I was looking for the religouschat webpage and on accident I luckily ran across this site! Wow Great Stuff BTW who is Jeff Gordon |
Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member
Username: Mitch_alsup
Post Number: 764
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 2:07 pm: | |
"Charles, if you're not a Christain before you die you ARE doomed."
Charles: don't listen to this bigoted Christian--one who represents the exact opposite of what the religion actually stnads for.
"That's not my words, that's what the Bible says."
Who gave the bible the athority to say such?
But lets look at other stuff the bible says--take Noah's flood: did it happen as the bible indicated?
Down south in a land called Egypt, the upper crust had the prosensity to record just about everything, such as what costumes various people wore to various parties. Noah's flood was supposed to have covered the world to the top of the highest mountain, yet, in Egypt, in the heyday of pyrimid building, in a land of record keeping, they never noticed a world wide flood! Why not? Where did all the water come from? Where did it go? If you want to know the real truth, go read to collection of works at talk.origins
If the bible is simply wrong about stuff like this, what makes you think it is correct about the other stuff? Like life after death,...
"I studied philosophy in college which included a lot on other religions. A big difference is all the others' founders are dead."
A momentary pause to inform Frank that Jesus is also dead...
"Jesus is the only founder that is alive as attested to by hundreds after he arose from death."
There are hundreds of people who think that they have seen Noah's Arc also. Yet the scientists do not consider this as substantive evidence.
"Why would one worship someone who is dead ?"
I don't, and neither should you.
"If they couldn't save themselves from death what kind of god could they be ? "
What make you think your god is not also dead? Have you seen him in a way that can be recorded with a camera, VCR,....? Have you talked with him/her in a way that can be recorded with a tape recorder? Have you seen him/her eat food, taken drink, excreeted "processed" food, urinated? Can bilogical test be performed to determin the kind of living mater this god posesses?
Just what makes you think this entity is still in existence, and on what do you base you assertion that it is still alive? And what definition are you using for alive?
But lets get to the real crux of the matter: Who would want salvation? What a silly concept! (and not backed by any evidence whatsoever!) Is it not simply much better to live a fulfilled life, doing as many good works as possible, and then die!
We have seen what works people who are granted the notion of heaven/paradise can do when so motivated--or do you not remember 9/11?
Is it not time to get over these silly notions? |
rich (Dino2400)
Member
Username: Dino2400
Post Number: 260
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 9:55 am: | |
Don't forget that the Buddha is also "alive". However, he is not to be worshipped and his teachings are mearly suggestions. They are what worked for him but if something better works for an individual instead, the Buddha would have been the first to say they should use that method. In other words, Buddhism has no dogma.
In general, my thoughts on religion are, "Hey, whatever gets you through the day." For me that doesn't include worshipping a god that if he exists, is the sort of guy that was so insecure, so in need to validation that he created a whole planet full of people and commanded them to worship him. If they don't do as he says, he will serve vengence upon them for eternity. Gee, sounds like the kind of guy that if human, I wouldn't give the time of day too. But hey, like I said, if believing in such a being and wanting to stroke his ego is what gets you through the day, be my guest. |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 5315
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 9:54 am: | |
One last tidbit from Robbie...
The straw that broke the religions back, if you will put it like that is...
It's a fact that religion is geographical. It was more-so before the age of mass transportation, but still very much the case. North America is Christian, Middle East is Muslim, India is Hindu, and China/Tibet is Buddhist. Are you telling me that if every current member of the Christian Coalition had been born in another religious geographical region that they would all still be Christian even though their parents and complete surrounds were not Christian? That's the only question right there. The rest of this is just gravy.
Now for an additional theory of mine. We all have various levels of intelligence and various personalities. I think that the make up of a person that would have them become a devote Christian in a Christian environment would also of had them become another religion in that other environment.
There are followers and there are leaders. There are those that are easily influenced and there are those that aren't afraid to ask questions. Without a doubt I know that what gave me the courage to break free in my environment would also let me break free in those other religious environments. I'm am about as Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, and Buddhist as I am Christian.
In ending, I don't expect everyone to have come up the mountain on my same path. There are different paths and different heights, but we'll all meet at the same place on the mountain top.
Frank and everyone else, continue as you are on your own path. |
Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member
Username: Airbarton
Post Number: 649
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 9:32 am: | |
Frank, I don't mean to be difficult, and please don't take any offense by this but that is probably the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. I to am quite familiar with the teachings of the bible. Believe it or not I have actually read it. I don't think we are ever going to see eye to eye on this so I think it would be best to just let it go. BTW I saw your friend's engine the other day. The guys had just finished taking it apart. Looks like he got lucky. There was no real damage to the pistons or anything. All they had was some minor dents in them where the valves hit them otherwise they are fine. |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 5313
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 9:28 am: | |
Maybe if we all chip in to buy Frank some dance lessons he won't think it's wrong. |
TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 3857
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 9:13 am: | |
Rob, did you get any royalties from Footloose |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 5311
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 9:10 am: | |
Frank, continue as you are. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 2469
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 8:49 am: | |
Charles, if you're not a Christain before you die you ARE doomed. That's not my words, that's what the Bible says. I studied philosophy in college which included a lot on other religions. A big difference is all the others' founders are dead. Jesus is the only founder that is alive as attested to by hundreds after he arose from death. Why would one worship someone who is dead ? If they couldn't save themselves from death what kind of god could they be ? |
Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member
Username: Airbarton
Post Number: 647
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 8:37 am: | |
Terry, I've heard that very reply many times before from various Christians. What I was trying to get across was that IMO most people have a very narrow view about religion. They see there particular religion as the only possibility. To me that is just too narrow a view considering the many religions that exist. According to Frank if you are not a Christian you are doomed. I would bet a Buddist would say the same thing about a Christian, and a Hindu would say the same thing about both. I think a person should at least study as many different ones as they can before they decide that thiers is right and everyone else is wrong. Most religious types are indoctrinated into thier religion at a very early age and of course know nothing other than that. They never take the time to look at other possibilities and claim they can objectively determine the one true religion. Too me that just indicates thier inability to think for themselves. Most people I know that are religious believe the way they do because they were raised that way, not because they researched various religions and then made a choice. |
DGS (Dgs)
Junior Member
Username: Dgs
Post Number: 59
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 2:42 pm: | |
Replay Monday at 8:00 pm, according to the ad during Canadian GP.
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Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 607
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 4:12 pm: | |
There is more evidence to support the consistency of the bible when evaluating the translation issue rather than any degradation. When translated copies of manuscripts that had been transcribed for generations during the middle ages were compared to large passages of the bible found in the dead sea scrolls, there was little to no degradation. It was amazingly consistent.
Of coarse your going to get some differences in details and wording during translation. This is the case whenever anything is translated from one language to another. However, these type of translation and language related things dont have an impact on the overall message, story or importance.
I have never been into the whole denomination thing. Why should one group of believers get so wound up some detail thing that they want to seperate themselves in some way? I mean really... seems silly and ridiculously intolerant. So much of the the bible is told in parables and so many passages can be interpreted with different meanings when taken in context with other passages that OF COARSE people come up with different stuff. Hey, it makes religious discussion interesting! Not only that, but I see no reason why multiple opinions may not be correct. After all.... is God limited to not being able do multiple, valid and meaningful truths? |
Chris Burch (Cyb)
New member
Username: Cyb
Post Number: 34
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 8:07 pm: | |
Exploring/talking about F1 vs. Nascar; Ever heard the saying "SELL TO THE MASSES, EAT WITH THE CLASSES?"
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Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 5295
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 7:46 pm: | |
Well Terry, I guess I'm #1 for you then.
Growing up the son of a Presbyterian minister with a doctorate in theology I guess I had a little exposure to the Bible. My mom has been very active in the church her entire life too. She received her undergrad and grad degree from Trinity. From a baby until confirmation classes I didn't miss a Sunday unless on vacation or sick. Went to Sunday school before every one of my dad's services, vacation bible school, church camp, and youth rallies. You know, I loved most all of that (except my smarty pants Dad's sermons  ). I love the community of the church. I can't wait to get active in it again. However, the denomination will have to be something like the Unitarian Universalists that allow those of us with open minds, but solid spirits.
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Dan (Bobafett)
Member
Username: Bobafett
Post Number: 729
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 6:17 pm: | |
Terry,
I'm not trying to discredit it, and while I have read it, I haven't studied it. Just curious. One thing, as Rob mentioned, is that there have been myriad translations over the course of time, at human error. Does this not play a role?
--Dan |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 606
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 5:46 pm: | |
I have met and heard from many people who discount the bible as tainted, false, flawed, fake, incomplete and/or myth.
I have also met many people who take it to be the word of God and believe it contains Gods fundamental message to us upon which a sound relationship with God is dependant.
The funny thing is, without exception, everyone whom I have had contact who has actually read the entire bible and studied it at length falls into the latter catagory. The overwhelming majority of those in the former catagory have never even read the whole bible, much less studied it.
The more I read it and learn, the more solid my belief becomes and the more sense the big picture makes. |
Dan (Bobafett)
Member
Username: Bobafett
Post Number: 726
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 5:38 pm: | |
On topic: Are there going to be further replays? I missed it. Speedtv.com seems to be down.
On the other topic: I went to a jesuit college, but avoided religion classes like the plague. I do have one question that I recall from a mandatory class: as I recall, the professor said that the bible was written some 30-40 years after the death of christ, as his disciples were waiting for his return, and as they aged, they realized it best to remember him in written verse, hence the collection of stories. None were meant to be taken literally. But more important than that, any man, trying to remember something form 40 years ago, has to 'color' his memories, no? From this, i find those who take it as fact as a little ... optimistic?
--Dan |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 5289
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 3:58 pm: | |
How can Christians take a book so black and white when it was written by humans, over many years, and has been translated many times over. The Bible is one of the most special books ever, but as everything else it has to be taken with a grain of salt. The Bible should be used to inspire and to be interpreted, not memorized. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 2466
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 3:45 pm: | |
Amen Terry. |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 605
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 3:41 pm: | |
Uhhhhhhh either a great number, 500+, people saw Jesus after he had been crucified or there was a massive conspiracy among a widely diverse group of people to fake his appearance. If it was a conspiracy, a good number of the conspirators felt strongly enough about the fraud to give their lives for it.
Then again lots of people figure it was so long ago that who know if any of it is true. After all Julius Caeser could be just a mythological figure as well. Its all just ancient history with no bearing on modern life at all. All that old stuff has been twisted through history and is all subject to too much interpretation. Blaaaaaaaaa Blaaaaaaaa I guess everyone knows what I think of this thought process...
Charles... Im not Frank would not supposed to speak for him, but here is a quick and dirty:
How about because thats the means God provided for our salvation. To be a Christian simply means you believe Christ was born as God incarnate in man, died on the cross to pay for our sins and was raised up 3 days later. Anyone who believes this and accepts Christ as his savior is a Christian. Anyone who rejects this as nonesense is not. According to the bible, God sacrificed his son to pay for our sins and thus provide a means to be with him. Rejecting this sacrifice is rejecting Gods love for us.
I have often wondered if perhaps God, in infinite wisdom, has provided mulitiple paths to salvation through different beliefs within different cultures. Who knows. According to the bible this is not the case, but that does not mean I dont still harbor this question. Perhaps he has. I certainly dont judge others for their beliefs. I dont ram my own down anyones throat, but share what I have found to be the most amazing thing in life if someone is interested. After all, Christianity is not some limiting, boring and non-fun thing.
I actually see Jesus as a Dino driver. After all, its doubtful he would have a power complex. Being an all powerful diety probably satisfies any HP cravings. I see him more into the beauty of the design and pure asthetics. yup... a 246 Dino GT driver all the way. |
Paul Loussia (Bumboola)
Junior Member
Username: Bumboola
Post Number: 86
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 3:33 pm: | |
Didn't Jesus also have a problem acknowledging anything other than 12 cylinder Ferraris? |
DGS (Dgs)
New member
Username: Dgs
Post Number: 47
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 3:03 pm: | |
Adam and Eve had two children - Cain and Able - both boys.
End of story.
Thus, any humans you think you've met were a figment of your imagination.
So can we get back to discussing Ferraris -- the _real_ dominant lifeform on the planet? ;^)
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Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member
Username: Airbarton
Post Number: 646
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 2:26 pm: | |
Frank, Why does a person have to be a Christian to believe in God and be saved? |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 5286
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 2:10 pm: | |
You rock Mitch! I love it when someone else can articulate what you believe and feel better than you can. Great minds think alike.
#1 - Jesus was a human and did exist and did great things in his life and has been more of a positive influence on the human race than almost anyone else in history.
#2 - The world is not human. Humans are just a part of the world. We're no more special than any other living being on Earth. Yes, fairly good scientific evidence we have advanced mental abilities compared to our fellow beings, but no divine separation. That's the major problem with religion is that they humanize God and "his" message.
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Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member
Username: Mitch_alsup
Post Number: 762
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 1:25 pm: | |
"I can say is that your knee will bow and you will acknowledge Christ one day"
I acknoledge that Jesus was born around April of -04, and was killed by the govenor around +30, and than nobody has seen him in 1970 years!
There is no evidence that any supernatural stuff exists. There is plenty of evidence that we (as humans) are not usefully different than any other mamal (or living thing on this planet.) Therefore, if there is a heaven for humans, then there must necessarily be a heaven for cats/dogs/guinne pigs et.al. |
Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member
Username: Bob308gts
Post Number: 659
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 1:08 pm: | |
Good one Frank |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 2463
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 12:36 pm: | |
Bob, no one needs Jesus more than the Cubs ! |
Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member
Username: Bob308gts
Post Number: 658
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 11:16 am: | |
How 'bout those Cubs |
Craig A (Milo)
Member
Username: Milo
Post Number: 270
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 11:02 am: | |
I found this on Pascal's Wager:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/
|
Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member
Username: Enjoythemusic
Post Number: 467
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 10:56 am: | |
Sheeesh and Jesus H Christ, not another off-topic religious thing on a discussion board! Oy veh, it is simply not Kosher for such things.
May the Schwartz be with you.... always :-)
Enjoy the HUMOR,
Steven R. Rochlin
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Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 2457
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 10:23 am: | |
I hope you guys are kidding . If not, all I can say is that your knee will bow and you will acknowledge Christ one day. I just hope it's not too late for you as Christ has to be accepted in this life, not after it. Anyway, back to the post, I'm glad both Jeff Gordon AND Juan Pablo Montoya are professed Christians. One a Protestant and one a Catholic. I wonder if there has ever been an F1 or Nascar champion that wasn't a Christian ? |
Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member
Username: Airbarton
Post Number: 644
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 10:03 am: | |
Mitch, I really like the thing about Voltaire. What is Pascal's wager? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 1:00 pm: | |
poker casino poker 628 |
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