| Author | Message | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2631 Registered: 2-2001 |
sounds like Mike has something to hide | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 758 Registered: 3-2001 |
I second that. I have learned tons from owning 2 Esprits. I still have one and now it is extremely reliable. Its usually something small too. I think they are great cars. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 994 Registered: 10-2001 |
Alex, what a nightmare!! It's too easy to blame the guy for a really haphazard look-see before he forked over his 10k, but still.... | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 993 Registered: 10-2001 |
Mike, thanks for the compliment; I'm okay but no expert. I just realized I could screw up my car for a lot less money than my (ex) mechanic can! But the TC engine is simple compared to a Ferrari engine. It's not rocket science. Most of the battle is just taking your time and realizing that everything has to be done without shortcuts. My mecahnic NEVER tested anything he did so I'd take it back and he'd then try to charge me more to fix what he screwed up in the first place. After too many of these battles I took an oath that outside of an engine rebuild, I'd at least try to fix everything myself. So far, I'm batting 1000. Like I said, it's not rocket science although I've had a LOT of help from the kind folks on the Yahoo Lotus Europa group. When I add a Ferrari to my arsenel, I'm sure the kind folks here will prove invaluable. | ||
| Alex Lee (Alxlee)
Junior Member Username: Alxlee Post Number: 163 Registered: 4-2002 |
Just don't end up like this guy: http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e21/forum.php?postid=3378984&page=1 | ||
| Mike Zimmerman (Spike308)
New member Username: Spike308 Post Number: 27 Registered: 1-2003 |
Ken - you must be a very good mechanic... any other problems, look up the Lotus Corps they are fanatics, and have saved me literally thousands of dollars, and more importantly have given me dozens of hours of help on many issues. Jeffrey - I have often thought that a small fire may solve all the S1s problems (really... it was an accident!?!), but they are pretty cool. | ||
| Dennis in SE PA (Dennis_in_se_pa)
New member Username: Dennis_in_se_pa Post Number: 35 Registered: 5-2003 |
According to AutoCheck this car has no history before 8/12/02. Interesting for an '85 vehicle. | ||
| Jeffrey Wolfe (86mondial32)
Junior Member Username: 86mondial32 Post Number: 86 Registered: 5-2003 |
MIke I owned a Plaid interior S1 for about 3 weeks and then moved on to a S2. Both were rolling nightmares but fun. Now I have an S2 Europa and An Esprit turbo That are VERY well sorted and mod'ed with NO problems. Lotus's are well built machines that just require some input from the owners to be daily drivers... As for Ferrari 308's being troublesome... that BS... built much better from the factory than any of my lotus products... And Thats coming from a hard core lotus lover and Ferrari owner | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 990 Registered: 10-2001 |
Mike, take heart. After $15k of new parts and labor (half of it my own labor after I fired my mechanic) I now have a reliable Lotus. (For the moment!) Nevertheless, I do expect a 308 will be like a Honda next to your Esprit if you haven't finished fixing/replacing some of Colin's less brilliant ideas. | ||
| Mike Zimmerman (Spike308)
New member Username: Spike308 Post Number: 26 Registered: 1-2003 |
Paul - Yes I am set on a QV for a variety of reasons. Know of any, let me know... that $$ is just rotting away in the bank, needs to be driven! I have a 78 Lotus Esprit S1 with the original Stromberg carbs... can be very problematic. As a matter of fact, after having this Lotus for 2.5 years, I have pretty low expectations in terms of reliability for any "exotic" car that is over 5 years old. Lotuses, while fun, and a kick in the pants on a track, are the product of British "engineering", which make them just like Jags, etc... probably the most unreliable car around (save the almighty Pinto). I have learned more about cars with this Lotus than I ever knew before. thanks for all the therapy, guys! | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 988 Registered: 10-2001 |
Jerry, I was referring to the general public at large. My car is way less desireable than any Ferrari which is why they're less money than a comperable Vette or 308. The general public will NOT buy a sports car with an engine out service every few years or 30k miles, not to mention all the other hassles of Ferrari ownership. Those of us here, myself included, see value in a different way than the general public so a mid 30's 308 to us is a real bargain if the car is well sorted. If the 308's had the reliability and maintainence of a comperable Vette, they'd likely sell for double what they do. | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 721 Registered: 7-2001 |
Ken, 308's are big trouble and not desirable cars ha? I suppose a lotus IS desirable? I suggest you own a 308 before you knock them my friend. I have a 1979 that I have had for 3 years with virtually NO problems and have people tell me all of the time that they love my car and ask if it is for sale. Is this not the definition of desirable and trouble free? Get a clue! | ||
| Keith Maxwell (Keith_maxwell)
Junior Member Username: Keith_maxwell Post Number: 95 Registered: 5-2003 |
Mike, I ran through a whole mess of owners just like the one you describe. There is nothing worse than buying your dream car and learning after the fact that it's somebody else's nightmare. A PPI is not much to ask for, especially since you are paying for it. Take a pass on this one and the right car will come along. | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 348 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mike, I was just like you..wanted the car from the moment I saw it...then thought I'd never get one when the prices went crazy in the late 80's (the guy I bought mine from was offered $85K in the hite of the madness..he should have taken it  I'll keep my eyes open (I do live in NY though.. we are not all shady Jerry) set on a QV? I originally wanted an injected car when looking...but I am happier that I found a carb car..great sound and easy to diagnose | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 896 Registered: 5-2002 |
Mike. My blood pressure would go through the roof if I bought the car and found tons of expensive repairs that had to be done. Thank God it wasn't ment to be.. | ||
| Mike Zimmerman (Spike308)
New member Username: Spike308 Post Number: 25 Registered: 1-2003 |
Ken - long story, but I have a 78 S1, if I had not by chance run into guys from the Corps, the car would have 2 inches of dust on it, and would not be able to drive it. They are the greatest bunch of guys, always willing to help fix ANY mechanical problems, always for free. Went to Blackhawk several weekends ago with them... very cool. Think about joining again, several guys have Europas, most know a lot about all the Lotuses. | ||
| sindo rodil (308qv_miami)
New member Username: 308qv_miami Post Number: 25 Registered: 5-2003 |
Good thing you passed. As for 308's being "big trouble", nothing could be farther from the truth. I have a qv with 52,000 miles and aside from routine maintenance, a very happy experince. I've met a couple of guys that have 80k and one nearing 100k. Check out Forza's 308 buyers guide.The engines are pretty much bulletproof. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 985 Registered: 10-2001 |
Mike, I was a member for a year but never was able to make the meetings! Oh well...I'll be at Fox Valley open house tomorrow. In fact, my car is on the front of the invitations! Will you be there? | ||
| Mike Zimmerman (Spike308)
New member Username: Spike308 Post Number: 24 Registered: 1-2003 |
BTW, Ken... I live in the Chicago area too... are you a member of the Lotus Corps? If not, we need to talk! Greatest bunch of guys you will ever meet! | ||
| Mike Zimmerman (Spike308)
New member Username: Spike308 Post Number: 23 Registered: 1-2003 |
Paul - e-bay is just on of about 25 places I regularly look. I've wanted the car for 20 years, now within the past year I finally can afford it, and damn it I am impatient now! I am, however, willing to wait. My true hope in posting this whole waste of my time / learning opportunity was to have one chatter chime in, say he/she was also in contact with the guy, and apprectiated the warning, then had some ammunition to either walk away or get the car for a song, because the seller is a flake and an a-hole. Feel free to pass on any info on a nice 84/85 US red/tan QV, I'm more than willing to pay a fair price. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 983 Registered: 10-2001 |
308's are NOT "desireable" cars. They are big trouble and are toys for only the truly dedicated. It's a buyers market for them, that's why prices are low. How many nice ones are there? Not that many as those serious buyers can attest. Yet in spite of the rarity of good cars, how much do they sell for say compared to a 246? Not very much. Try getting mid 30's for a 308 that's "worth" mid 30's and it WILL take some time. The car in question must have some real problems or the seller just decided not to sell. Here he had an obviously serious buyer that was also willing to pay what the car was worth assuming it was as represented. I say Mike didn't miss out on anything but unexpected repair bills for something major. | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 347 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mike, expand your search...e-bay has some good stuff but often has shady individuals...one of the best ways to find one is word of mouth...talk to service guys who may know of a customer that might be selling....they'll know the car... I found mine through the Ferrari Market Letter almost 10 years ago...it seems to attract more enthusiasts and people who don't want to bother advertising in newspapers or online. | ||
| Jeff Edison (Euro308guy)
Member Username: Euro308guy Post Number: 365 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mike, Let it go. There are plenty of nice ones available. You'll find one. This one has problems, no doubt. Take your time; it'll be worth it in the end. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1281 Registered: 5-2002 |
When it comes to the REAL world of selling any desirable car, be it Ferrari or otherwise, I think that it's really a seller's market. Buyers who demand a PPI may be just protecting themselves, but the seller of any desirable car knows that he won't have to fool with all that PPI "nonsense". There will always be another buyer who will come along and just buy the thing without making the seller dance through some demanding hoops. That's just reality. Doesn't matter whether it's collector cars, real estate, antiques, etc. There is always another fool with more money than brains who will rush in and ruin a potentially good deal because he hasn't done his homework. I say, let the fool loose his shirt. There will always be another, and more likely better, car to be bought. | ||
| Branko Medenica (Branko)
Junior Member Username: Branko Post Number: 88 Registered: 3-2003 |
I know you are disappointed, but count your blessings, he saved you a bundle of cash. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 393 Registered: 4-2003 |
Run as fast as you can. That is pure BS. | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 193 Registered: 2-2003 |
There is nothing wrong with pointing out every little thing wrong. The PPI is really to help point our if anything MAJOR is wrong. The car's 17-years old. There's going to be some bumps and buises on it. If he won't agree to a PPI, forget it. | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 713 Registered: 7-2001 |
All you had to say was New York, that would make me run. | ||
| Tony Roberts (Pantera)
Junior Member Username: Pantera Post Number: 129 Registered: 6-2003 |
He did you a favor. Pass! | ||
| Mike Zimmerman (Spike308)
New member Username: Spike308 Post Number: 22 Registered: 1-2003 |
So, I just had my blood pressure through the roof for the past 2 days, almost bought my first Ferrari... deal fell through, wanted to warn my fellow chatters about this potential problem seller. Car auction just ended on E-bay, 85 308QV red/tan, minimum reserve 33K, did not sell... maybe some of you saw it... I talked to the owner multiple times, got some records, he says other people were interested (supposedly). I had a PPI scheduled for monday (others supposedly could not get one for several weeks... I made 2 calls and got it lined up), they had my credit card number for billing purposes (I told him I would pay for it), it was less than 25 miles from his house. Then he flakes out, saying he does not want to drive it there... then reassured me it is in fine order... but that the inspection will "just point out every little thing wrong with it"... (exactly the reason to get it!) Tells me I can fly to see it (yeah, right.) Did not think it would be prudent to buy it without the PPI (learned that right here!) I am obviously very frustrated, just thought any potential buyers out there would want to know. Guys name is Mike, lives in New York VIN ZFFUA13A8F0058439 any other questions, let me know |