| Author |
Message |
Jeffrey Wolfe (86mondial32)
Junior Member
Username: 86mondial32
Post Number: 91
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 7:58 pm: | |
Very good point James but I was not talking about the race cars I was referring to the road cars and how Enzo thought of that side of his business. YOur comments about the Ford sale actually proves my point. If you read Yates book it says very clearly that Enzo cared less about the road cars and would sell only if he could keep control of the racing side. The fact that he was ready to take an offer that was undervalued proves his contempt for the road cars. The fact that the deal fell through ONLY due to not having control of the racing proves his contempt for the road cars. His own statements that he only built road cars so that he could race proves his contempt for the road cars. As for the statement about the "tub" on the 512, that was my error. I have been watching Lemans today and was thinking modern chassis.
I agree that it was a different time but there are too many sources that point out the general feelings that Enzo had towards the owners of his road machines. Let's not forget what led Lambroghini to start up... his disappointment at the way he was treated by Enzo.
BTW.. this is not an attack.. I am a Ferrari owner and lover... but Not a huge fan of many of the owners I meet ( but really like Phil Hill and David Piper.. great guys) |
James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member
Username: Napolis
Post Number: 1649
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 7:37 pm: | |
Jeffery
You have to put this in the context of the times. The first Ford GT's were such a mess that it took that it took 12 men, 3 boys, a dog and Shelby to make them right. The first J car (Pre MK-IV) killed Ken Miles it was so hairy. Ford, who had a lot more money than Ferrari spent millions to get it right. The story you cite about the 512 race car needing a tub rebuild, the only problem with it is that 512's don't have tubs therefore you must wonder what else the author got wrong. Donohue/Pensky did spend a lot of time reworking and rebuilding their 512 but if you knew Mark you'd know he did that with EVERY car he ever raced. That's what racers did in those days. Customer race cars were often very sketchy. I recently rebuilt the tub in my Lola. The original welds scared me to death and the roll bar was made out of muffler pipe.
Mr. Ferrari had a small Co. Ford valuled the whole Co. at 18 Million in 64. Mr. Ferrari thought that price was more than fair. Losing control, not price was the issue.
As for owners thinking any car gives them magical
powers for me it's always been the opposite. When I look at the fragility of my P4 I'm amazed at the skill and daring of those who raced it at Spa in the rain. They were different than ANY of us,
as was the man who's Co. built it and who's name is on the little emblem on the nose. |
Jeffrey Wolfe (86mondial32)
Junior Member
Username: 86mondial32
Post Number: 90
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 4:55 pm: | |
It is nice to see that Ferrari owner are not above revising History. I have read countless reports from people such as Tavoni, Chinetti and Otto Zipper along with people like Phil Hill not to mention stories in FORZA and all of the other major mags. Brock Yates in his bio of Enzo. Also the stories about customers left " cooling their heels" in the outer office while waiting to see if their car was ready for pickup on the assigned day.
Granted this was not in the 80's and 90's. But I remember the story of the last 512 customer racer. It was in such awful shape that if required a total rebuild of the tub and drivetrain before it was able to race.
Granted Ferrari owners would hate to admit that they were less than loved by Enzo... but either history is lying or it's being rewritten.
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Mark Lambert (Mlambert890)
Junior Member
Username: Mlambert890
Post Number: 95
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 11:28 am: | |
I would assume that if Enzo had such feelings they were specifically directed at those who cared nothing more for his creations than as a status symbol.
I am sure that any true enthusiast who genuinely appreciated the brilliance of the machinery would have been ok in Enzo's book. I doubt he expected everyone who bought a road going Ferrari to be an F1 qualified race car driver.
Generally, to earn the label "ricer" you've got to be engaging in inappropriate and dangerous behavior on the street (like goading someone to race in rush hour traffic).
Any brand of auto will end up having "ricers" that buy them, but I don't see so many Ferrari owners who fit the bill.
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James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member
Username: Napolis
Post Number: 1643
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 10:48 am: | |
Jeffery
A lot has been written about Mr. Ferrari. A lot of it,much like that which is written about anything, is less than fully accurate. Mr. Ferrari cared about his road cars. I remember the tears in his eyes as they unveiled the last one he was involved with. Those standing nearby, if they listened carefully heard him say. "Bella..."
For me Mr. Ferrari's own words are the ones to listen to.
In his autobiography "My Life of Terrible Joys" He spoke at length about his road cars and his customers.
I remember Mr Ferrari's words to my friend Alberto: "I don't care if the body seams are straight. I don't care if it has electric windows, but when the driver steps on the accelerator I want him to sh it his pants"
BTW Mr. Ferrari was talking about his latest road car. |
Tony Roberts (Pantera)
Junior Member
Username: Pantera
Post Number: 158
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 10:09 am: | |
Jeffrey,
I agree 100%.
Thanks for having the balls to post this.
I am sure the click here will rip you a new
•••••••. Fuckem! |
Jeffrey Wolfe (86mondial32)
Junior Member
Username: 86mondial32
Post Number: 89
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 10:05 am: | |
good point Brian |
Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Member
Username: Kennedy
Post Number: 339
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 10:04 am: | |
The same can be said in any group... Corvette owners, pony car owners, Beamer owners, Porsche owners, and Ferrari owners. Most of them have zero experience in high-performance driving and literally have no clue what their cars can really do. Put them on a road course or an autox against a lowly Neon or such with a real driver and they will get smoked! And their question at the end of the session? "Damn! What do you have in that thing?" Answer, "Nothing... its stock." Response, "Yeah, right."
With that said, in my experience with lots of different car groups, I'd say the Ferrari community has a much lower percentage of clueless drivers than most other groups... partially because its simply an older, more mature group. The ricer crowd is dominated by young kids... with much more bravado than wisdom. But that's where many of the Ferrari owners were a decade earlier (younger and less wise).
Of course, that's all just generalizations. Here's one that's not: 20 years ago I was among the clueless... and thought I was a damn good driver... how clueless I was!
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Jeffrey Wolfe (86mondial32)
Junior Member
Username: 86mondial32
Post Number: 88
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 9:48 am: | |
I was reading yet another book about Enzo and came back to one of his basic beliefs. He had little or no respect for the owners of his street cars. He would often make them wait months past the delivery date and then send them the wrong colors.
He often talked openly and with much disdain for the rich owners. Even when a wealthy patron would purchase a Racing machine they would be refused a current model and often sold a well dogged factory racer with no spares and refurbishment.
I tend to agree with his wisdom.As I listen to owners of modern Ferrari road cars talk about their driving experiences I am amused. As a previous track driver I watch the owners of 348's, 355's, TR's,F40's and 50's and many others on the road at get togethers I notice a mindset. They tend to confuse the cars ability with their own.Itseems that if you can afford a Ferrai you instantly have a cosmic awareness of high performance driving.
I am more and more hard pressed to see much difference between the "ricers" and many current Ferrari owners.
Perhaps Enzo was right... |