| Author | Message | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1708 Registered: 10-2002 |
Kenneth The quality of the turbo's in the GT2 and the Turbo Cayanne is very impressive. It takes a long time to refine something and I think the different Mfg.'s have stuck with what they do best. Best | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2524 Registered: 9-2001 |
KCC, Ferrari has had several turbo models including the 208, 288GTO and F40 as well as F1 cars of the turbo era. I suspect Ferrari will again offer a turbo model at some time in the future. Especially if it finds itself falling behind in power verses some of the new turbo exotics coming out. | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 388 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hi, James, welcome back.  Now, it seems that Ferrari (and Lamborghini) do not go for turbo-charge models at all. Porsche does, whilst Mercedes have a preference for supercharged engines for some of its top models. Are you able to enlighten me why? Friends? | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1171 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hill, A diverter valve is quite different. A diverter valve adds air to into the intake manifold during deceleration. What this does is lean out the fuel/air mixture. In a turbo car it's usually an air system that "diverts" air into the exhaust manifold. Therefore feeding more air into the turbine. A BOV is very different. Turbos spin at extremely high RPMs. Probably around 16k is not unusual for a mild turbo. When you let off the throttle, the spinning comes to a complete stop because the air (exhaust, is more accurate) supply is completely cut off. A BOV slowly bleeds the air instead of completely blocking off. That's why you hear the PFFFFT. That's the air slowly passing through a very tiny hole. This allows the turbine within the turbo to keep spinning (slow down). So, when you get back on the gas and the exhaust goes through the turbo again, you are not starting from 0 RPM. Consequently, the BOV also saves the trubine, which is the little blades and rod inside the turbo. Cheers | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1686 Registered: 10-2002 |
Wm Just got back from a ride in my friends new GT2. He is a good driver, 2nd in class Daytona Grand AM. I don't think you're feeling trubo lag. These smaller turbo come on very quickly. I think you're feeling the variable valve timing keeping you in the torque. You may be going faster that you realize. In the old P days of huge turbos the good drivers used left foot braking and brought on the throttle before they needed it to spool up the Turbos. I don't think this car needs that. The rear pushes nicely and needs steering correction (opposite lock) dialed in and out as needed and you don't want to lift in a turn. The sound the springs make when turning while stopped, (not under load) is normal as is the carbon on carbon sound of the brakes. supercar! Best | ||
| Hill Bullock (Mrpotential)
New member Username: Mrpotential Post Number: 32 Registered: 12-2002 |
Dumb question time: Is a Blow Off Valve the same thing as a Diverter Valve? I think the answer is "yes" and I know the 996TT has diverter valves, although the stock ones are seen as a bit of a weak point which should be replaced by aftermarket when convenient. I have some sitting in my garage now awaiting installation. The reason cited by the 996TT guys for replacing them is that the originals are known to fail relatively early, leading to loss of boost. Even the local dealership acknowledges this, as they replace them with aftermarket UNDER WARRANTY. Maybe these aftermarket DVs will help keep the boost up when off throttle...? | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 402 Registered: 2-2001 |
wm, in lieu of an internet driving primer from a non-pro, would say, as you did, that seat time'll show you the way. Would just suggest staying in/near the active range of the power band when you're out giving it the business and roll on the throttle for progressive helpings of boost. Cool car. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1165 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hill, Sounds like a blast!! I think the factory has the basic setup to protect the turbo, but not for aggressive driving. A good blow off valve will make funny sounds (PFFFT!!) every time you let go of the gas. It almost sounds like one of those bus doors opening, when the hydraulics bleed off the air. OK, it sounds nicer, but you get the point. Maybe a more restrictive BOV will do the job to keep the turbine spinning so when you get on the gas you can start on the lower portion of the boost range. Cheers | ||
| Hill Bullock (Mrpotential)
New member Username: Mrpotential Post Number: 31 Registered: 12-2002 |
I would agree with WHart and StickandDice. The situation that most comes to mind where I was out of the boost was after getting hard on the brakes coming into Horseshoe at MSR (a road race course SW of Ft Worth). I heelnToe it to downshift into second, so my RPMs are up, but when I get back on the gas...putputput until suddenly WAHOO! up and out of the corner. I am pretty sure the 996TT has blow off valves, but despite the fact my RPMs are up (not sure exactly where), I am still boostless (or partial boost?) for a short period. Thanks to you guys, at least now I have a little better understanding of why. How does one keep "in the boost" in these situations? Or just take the bad with the good and take solace in the fact that the same turbo I am cussing entering the corner will blow me by the other cars as soon as it spools? | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1164 Registered: 11-2002 |
William, Tenney, I don't particularly think you can easily stay "in boost" when it comes to a car like this. I've driven many turbocharged cars and have a solid yet basic understanding of how they work. The only way to keep the car in boost is by never completely letting go of the gas. Even at high RPMs, when you let off the gas completely the turbo stops spinning. Granted, there will be faster spooling once you get on the gas, but these cars nowadays spool so damn fast it will hardly make a difference. And I certainly can't imagine driving one of these monsters without letting go of the gas once in a while... The only way to really stay in boost or more accurately, partial boost is via a blow off valve. The BOV will bleed air when you let off the gas in an effort to preserve the turbine blades. That way, when you get on the gas again, the turbo is still rotating, albeit at reduced RPMs. Tenney, You are definitely right in that the difference between the 996 and the 930 are not even comparable. That's what I intended to say when I mentioned the 996s boost being subtle. Having driven other turbocharged cars that feel almost dead until the turbo kicks in, this new generation of Porsches do an excellent job of feeding power, not so much dumping it like a sack of bricks. Again, not to be confused with gradual and slow acceleration. Cheers | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1269 Registered: 12-2001 |
Tenney: YOur comment about staying "in boost" raises a question of degree, since there is a huge difference between a little and alot. While it may spool faster once its already turning (scuse my caveman understanding of the thing), going to "full" is still a beat away; its not just the time interval, though: its the radical increase in speed, like hitting an on/off switch. Maybe as i learn to drive the car, i'll be able to refine the gradations. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 397 Registered: 2-2001 |
No expert here, Hill, but perhaps if you're always in the boost there'll be fewer power delivery issues. Think 125cc mx bike (or shifter kart) here - where staying on the pipe is key to getting the job done. Would also agree with those who say there's no real comparo lag-wise 930 v. 996TT. 930 had zero torque off boost. 996 is 550 tractable by comparison. | ||
| Hill Bullock (Mrpotential)
New member Username: Mrpotential Post Number: 30 Registered: 12-2002 |
I am a relatively new 996TT owner (my first turbo), which I have had for about 8 months, but have only had at the track a couple of times. I have much more seat time in naturally aspirated cars on the track, and thought I would throw in my 2 cents on my impressions of NA vs turbo. I agree entirely with Whart. I find that even though the 996TT has very little turbo lag compared to other/older turbos, to an NA driver, it is still quite noticeable, and annoying. With NA, you always know where you are in the power band unless you miss a shift. A little more gas is fairly predicatable with respect to the addition of power, whereas with a turbo, I find myself "waiting for boost" when I would prefer to be in the power. Now the 996TT develops significant torque as low as 2500 RPMs, yet I still find myself out of the power at awkward times, whereas in my NA car, I am never surprised by the level of power available. With time and familiarity, I am sure I will learn to minimize this syndrome, but for now, it is a little annoying. On the other hand, when in the boost, the car is a rocketship. I could come around corners with cars ahead of me who would give delayed passing signals, preventing me from slingshotting, but I could still pass them on relatively short straights as if they were standing still. If only it were a tad lighter. A GT2 sounds great, but for my tastes, it is a bit too harsh and crazy-powerful for street driving. I believe the stories of a high percentage of them being wrecked. It is not a car for the general public. | ||
| Jack Fried (Jack360)
New member Username: Jack360 Post Number: 39 Registered: 6-2001 |
Bgomez: Stock to stock, the Turbo is a bit quicker but the cars are close. Of course, the 360 doesn't push you back in the seat quite the same way as the Turbo. However, the 360's gearing and overall agility make up for some of the torque deficit. Once you do a simple ECU/exhaust mod to the Turbo, there's no contest in the straight line acceleration category. | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 387 Registered: 10-2002 |
WHart, Taek, and all, Many thanks. Have a good day! | ||
| Bill Gomez (Bgomez)
New member Username: Bgomez Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2003 |
Jack360, How does the acceleration of the 360 feel in comparison to the 996TT? Thanks, Bill | ||
| Jack Fried (Jack360)
New member Username: Jack360 Post Number: 38 Registered: 6-2001 |
Bill: All the 996 Turbo models have a little turbo lag -- the X50 and GT2 (with the larger K24 turbos) have a bit more than the standard Turbo. However, when I compare my former 993TT and 996TT to my '86 930, these newer Porsches have NO turbo lag. The theory of relativity.... Enjoy the new car! | ||
| Jack Fried (Jack360)
New member Username: Jack360 Post Number: 36 Registered: 6-2001 |
Duplicate post deleted. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1159 Registered: 11-2002 |
William, Sounds like the turbos in the GT2 are a lot more pronounced than the normal Turbo. What I meant by subtle was a comparison between my own and a 930 Turbo I had driven in the past. The power just seemed a lot more controlled and gradual. The 930 at the time felt like the rush of power from the turbo caught the car by surprise. Not that the kick was stronger than the current ones, just that it didn't seem as predictable and controllable. The analogy that worked for a lot of my friends in explaining turbo driving dynamics were as follows. Kenny, Think of the car with 2 gas pedals. Floor one and off you go. A turbo almost feels like once you are at speed and the turbo spools up (boost) someone presses on the second gas pedal and all this power you didn't know was there rushes the car at even greater speeds. Cheers | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 900 Registered: 1-2002 |
Darn, Bill, sounds like your gonna need to upgrade to a single turbo now. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1266 Registered: 12-2001 |
KCCK: I am hardly an expert on this car, let alone turbos in general, but the power delivery is hardly linear. It is no boost; boost on; full boost. The latter mode is not subtle. What i meant was there was a more linear increase in power to the normally aspirated 12. It sounds like the GT 2 has restored some kick (and perhaps lag) that has been absent from the Porsche turbo since it has gotten more refined. Does this make any sense? | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 384 Registered: 10-2002 |
Whart, Please elaborate more on why you miss the linear ability of a naturally aspirated engine (as on a Ferrari), as compared to a turbo-charged engine (as in a GT2), could you? | ||
| Erik (Teenferrarifan)
Junior Member Username: Teenferrarifan Post Number: 232 Registered: 2-2003 |
WHart thanks for the follow up. The GT2 is awesome. To bad you don't see them that often. The car has a really cool looking profile when it is parked with all the air and cooling ducts. Erik | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1262 Registered: 12-2001 |
Glad for the views, all. Spent alot of time driving it Sunday, clear and dry. Some more thoughts: The difference between on boost and off is not subtle. There is also a big difference between mild boost and deep throttle at speed. I don't know what the figures are, and have had no seat time in some of the other cars mentioned (just out of curiosity what is the weight difference between the Lambo and P car being compared in this thread), but this thing is relatively light, and small and it goes like hell! Brakes (which i refrained from stepping on too much Saturday in that constant downpour) are the least mechanical i have encountered. Hard stops occur with no drama. I am still approaching the car with respect, and have not pushed it to my limits, let alone the car's. I can tell you that i did many of my usual roads (including that stretch in front of Caramoor, between Cross River and Bedford) at considerably higher speeds than usual. The car tracks flat, like a race car, has no body roll, the steering is direct and the assist is not detectable. Do i miss the elegance of the ferrari? Absolutely. Am i having fun? You bet. (Ironically, as i was tooling down 22 S toward White Plains, a black barchetta passed me going in the opposite direction. Have no idea who that was.) I have by no means "abandoned" ferrari. I miss the linearity of a normally aspired engine that can launch, rather than the somewhat binary quality of a turbo. In answer to your question, Larrybard, the ideal ferrari (today, don't ask me tomorrow) would be something little bigger than a 911 or Cobra or new Z, with a 12 cyl engine, all stripped down, meant not as a GT car, but as a hot rod. Sure, put the technology in it; i'm not looking for a retro-car. But make it small, light, hard and go like hell. You know, when i was admiring that 375 MM a few weeks ago in the rain at Reading, it struck me how small that car really was. (BTW, the dealer was Brandywine, where my friend, Frank Donatoni, who used to manage Algar, is now, so that's the Philadelphia connection). | ||
| TC (Houston) (Tec)
Junior Member Username: Tec Post Number: 108 Registered: 2-2002 |
Whart, Awesome. I can't wait to hear what you think after you've had a chance to drive it a little more. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1150 Registered: 11-2002 |
James, I see what you mean now. I was simply addressing the usability spectrum of the cars from my standpoint. In racing terms I have no idea how to gauge any of these cars unfortunately. Not only have I had no track time with either car, but even if I did, I would drive it like an idiot. I was just trying to provide some insight as Kenny requested and address what Keith (Kds) was saying about his first hand experience. I too believe track time is a true measure of a car's capabilities, but sometimes, for the daily grind nothing beats seat time in an aggressive daily environment. Of course, that all changes depending on what you use the car for too. Cheers | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 506 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jim, The difference between a car developed for racing and a road car ... and why I have little respect for the new Enzo and Lamborgini. Like Jim states nothing impressive about pulling big numbers, but heaps impressive about winning races and especially handling that sort of abuse for 24 hours. Pete | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1656 Registered: 10-2002 |
Taek Terry's quote of Derek Bell is what I was trying to say. There's a big difference between a car that can turn impressive #'s and one that can win the 24 of LeMans. The P that won Daytona and finished 1st in class at LeMans today is fairly close to Wm's GT2. The Pagoni can turn impressive numbers. At LeMans and Daytona it was a joke. Best Jim | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 609 Registered: 4-2002 |
Porsche has always been very conservative in HP and performance figures they associate with their cars. The HP figure they publish is the minimum. IE: When an engine has completed assembly and is dyno tested, if it does not meet the minimum HP figure it is not allowed to be used. Most/many of the engines have more HP than the published minimum. Also, I agree with James. The measure is not just 0-60 times, top speed or skidpad G's. There are lots of cars that can put up great looking numbers. The difference is some cars put up these numbers AND will not fall apart if you drive them in that manner all the time. Porsche builds a car that you can simply beat the living crap out of and it just keeps on going. Its like Derek Bell said... if you were racing at Lemans and you wanted a chance at victory, you drove a Porsche plain and simple. | ||
| Nick Berry (Nickb)
Junior Member Username: Nickb Post Number: 100 Registered: 8-2002 |
The GT2 is a great performance car. However it is also a "drivers" car. It is raw uncontrolled power. It has little if any of the safety features to bail out drivers. VERY few people have the ability to drive the car let alone driving near its limits. There is a rather astounding number being published on various website stated that 25% of the GT2's have been in serious accidents on and off the track. If true, it is a car to be wary of and really cannot be considered a car for the public. | ||
| Kds (Kds)
New member Username: Kds Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2003 |
KCCK.... Car and Driver recorded 3.8 for the GT2 and AM+S recorded 3.6 as 0-60 times. This goes to prove Porsche's habit of presenting pessimistic acceleration stats to the media, as these two publications are often considered to be the best when it comes to real world testing. Regardless of mere statistics however, that is why I made the statement about "perception". I've driven "almost" everything in my career and this car delivers on "stats and perception"....for me anyways, my technician...and the new owner. Taek.... I find the GT2 to be more like the old 930 I used to own in terms of how the boost comes on and how the car feels under full boost.....the current 911 turbo (to me anyways) feels like it's on novocaine.....probably due to the extra 220 pounds and AWD system. Don't get me wrong....the regular Turbo is a great car, and I personally find a premium of $60K USD for the GT2 to be a little on the high side. My Diablo seat time is quite extensive and while the car is undoubtably fast, it's also a heavy car which affects my perception of the entire package. Needless to say.....I'd love to be able to own either own. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1142 Registered: 11-2002 |
Bill, The 4.3 for a Coupe and 4.5 for a Spyder. Stradale will do it in 4.1. 3.98 for a Turbo. The figures in my previous posts are for 0-62mph. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1141 Registered: 11-2002 |
James, My comparison clearly states how the cars personally feels. I didn't go by any magazines. I even mentioned I didn't know what the magazines said. My only allusion to a magazine was me having read from some publication that Porsche cars are pessimistic with their figures. My comparisons were based on two cars that I own/ed and one I had the privilege to borrow for a week. The Murcielago, 996 Turbo, and Diablo 6.0 respectively. I also mention in my previous post that it's my personal opinion. I'm no track star, but that's how it felt to me. Also referred to very little information from word of mouth from friends who have owned GT2s, Turbos, Diablos, etc. Cheers | ||
| Bill Gomez (Bgomez)
New member Username: Bgomez Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2003 |
What is the range of 0-60 times for the 360 coupe. How does it compare to a non-x50 996TT. Thanks, Bill | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1653 Registered: 10-2002 |
Kenneth/Taek Guys stop looking at magazine times and go for a drive. I've driven both. If you took both to LeMans fully stock two things would happen. The Lambo wouldn't finish and by the time it broke down which wouldn't be long the GT2 would have lapped it many, many times. If you're looking for performance look at LeMans. Alan's favorite the Pagnoni? A joke. The P cars First in class. Lambo's didn't even enter. Lambo's are what they are and if that's what you want cool but unless VW puts a Lambo badged body on their Audi Racecar as they did for their brand Bentley they aren't in the same league as the GT2. | ||
| larrybard (Larrybard)
New member Username: Larrybard Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2003 |
Bill, congratulations and thanks for sharing your observations. Interesting too how although you're in the NY area apparently you sometimes purchase cars in the Phlly area, evidently having developed dealer relationships here, not just with Algar if I recall correctly buy also perhaps the likes of Holberts. In any event, I wonder what Ferrari might produce (short of the Enzo) that would tempt you, from a performance standpoint, to give up the GT-2. That car may certainly be a leap in performance over the likes of the 550, and in aesthetics over more commonplace 911s, but what eventually brought me into the Ferrari fold from my 911 (though I still have it) was as much appearance as performance. I know the 512TR is not everyone's idea of a classic design -- I readily concede that though visually striking it is perhaps too flamboyant -- but the 911 is IMHO a rather unimpressive design (and I hate wings, which I believe are as a practical matter rarely functional). Sorry for rambling on. And thanks again. Larry | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1140 Registered: 11-2002 |
Sleep? Who, me? Hi Kenneth! I was actually heading to bed but checked the board before my slumber. Cheers | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1139 Registered: 11-2002 |
I've driven a Diablo, but not a GT2. The closest comparison I can give is a 6.0 Diablo or Murcielago vs. a normal 996 Turbo. The Lamborghinis are faster. They definitely feel faster as well. The Murcielago handles like a sorted 6.0. Very stable and comparably tight through weaving and turns and rough roads. The acceleration between the 2 does seem pretty similar. I don't know the actual figures though. I have a Turbo now and the car is much more my speed. It does get attention, but nowhere near a Lamborghini (which is a good thing for me). It's plenty fast for this fool to handle and it's low maintenance. Agree with William about the stalks though. They feel like they're going to break if you nudge them too hard. Feels like cheap brittle plastic with a glossy plastic piece with the desciptive pictures on them. I like how the shifter feels but agree there's nothing like a gated shifter, which Lamborghinis also have. I also noticed less of a tendency for the Turbo to wiggle on the bridges. The Lamborghini was scary at times over the bridges. It used to "tramline" a bit too much and required attentive corrections. If you weren't careful you'd end up in the other lane or scraping the wall. Haven't driven a Ferrari in the rain, but the Lamborghini did not feel too bad once at speed. In the beginning it can be tough for the wheels to find traction. Turns were not bad in the rain at all. I have yet to drive the Turbo in the rain so I don't have a basis for comparison. The power delivery of the Lamborghinis is also a lot more linear. The Turbo is surprisingly subtle in power delivery considering it's a forced induction car. Gone are the 930 days when the turbo would feel like a giant just kicked the car from the back. Don't mistake it with mild acceleration. It is extremely brisk and it'll scare the crap out of you if you are not used to driving fast cars. If the fastest car you've driven is a BMW 330Ci, you'll soil your underpants after a jaunt in a Diablo, Murcielago, Turbo, GT2. One of my employees took my car to the gas station and came back visibly shaken because he had almost crashed into someone. He had no clue a car was capable of accelerating that fast. Which brings me to the brakes. The Porsche has the Lamborghinis beat here. At least as far as how comfortable and predictable they felt to me. Keep in mind I'm no track star and if my right rear tire is 5psi short of air I'd have no clue. I never had a panic stop in either Lamborghini, but I did have one in the Turbo and that thing STICKS! The GT2 will do an even better job. So imagine a cartoon where a cartoon character steps on a piece of gum and is stopped on its tracks. That should pretty much sum up what those brakes probably feel like. Many people have felt the feeling of being harshly pushed from the back during acceleration. It is almost as visceral to have the seat belt stopping you from smacking into the steering wheel without having hit anything. The factory brochure and numbers for the Turbo show it as 4.2 on the sprint to 100kph, which is only .1 off. From what I have read from publications, Porsche is notorious for giving pessimistic figures. Other professional drivers have had faster times I hear. From what I have heard from other GT2 owners the performance difference between the 2 cars won't show itself until you hit higher speeds. Also the GT2 tends to feel faster because of it's more minimalist approach to luxury and comfort, or so they say. Again, I've never driven a GT2 so this is from word of mouth. Are Euro GT2s the same as US? Cheers | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 383 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ah, I forgot. I must hear from Taek-Ho Kwon as well, of course. Where are you guys? Sleeping? | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 382 Registered: 10-2002 |
Oh, I have not yet given up hopes of acquiring a Lambo, but now this - the GT2 feeling faster than the Diablo? My figures for 0-100 km/hr :- P GT2 = 4.1 Diablo = 3.95 For horsepower and torque :- P GT2 = 462 ps/5,700 rpm; 63.2 kgm/5,700 rpm Diablo = 550 ps/7,100 rpm ; 63.2 kgm/5,500 rpm Very nice description, Keith, but for once I miss the views of AllanLambo. Where are you, Allan? | ||
| Keith (Kds)
New member Username: Kds Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2003 |
I just delivered a GT2 last week to a client who also has a 360 Spider in his garage. Aside from the surprising compliance of the suspension when you are driving the thing around town like a sedan.....the accelaration is the most amazing part of this car. Absolutely amazing to be exact !!! The first phone call I received the next day was along the lines of "gawd...is this car ever ------- fast !!!" This is from someone whom I have sold cars like Diablo's, 996 Turbo's with Autothority Stage 3 kits....3.8 RS spec "converted" 964's to...etc...etc.... "It's like when Hans Solo jumps to hyperspace in the Star Wars movie" "First gear is useless.....all you need is second and third and then you go to jail" Etc...etc... Needless to say, Porsche was determined to defuse criticism of it's "ordinary" and "easy to drive" 911 Turbo and this car did a spectacular job IMHO. There have been few cars in 15 years that have made me sweat after a fast drive and this is one. The acceleration and speed with which the lightened engine spools up is unreal.....the basic rule for your first drive under full boost (if you are so lucky) should be as follow: -Both hands on steering wheel -Car pointed in a straight line -Dry, clear road. -Wear brown pants to hide the stain. Lots of cars are fast by the stopwatch and feel different to various drivers....but this car feels like nothing else I have ever driven. There are faster cars out there to be sure.....and I hope to be lucky enough some day to try them....but for now....this is it. And those brakes.....!!! | ||
| Erik (Teenferrarifan)
Junior Member Username: Teenferrarifan Post Number: 212 Registered: 2-2003 |
Thanks WHart sounds like you are having a blast. Do you miss the click clack from gear to gear of the f-car? Now you can use your car in the rain at speeds over 70mph. Congrats it sounds like you are happy with the pcar I can't wait to see pics. Did you consider the twin turbo at all instead of the GT2? What do you think of those ceramic brakes? Thanks Erik | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 395 Registered: 2-2001 |
Cool car, wm (even though my friends on the Schwinn forum say it's for posurs). Sounds like there's some (more) fun in your future. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1648 Registered: 10-2002 |
Wm Thanks for sharing. So far the P's are leading the 360's at LeMans. (Thought you'd want to know) Aren't the brakes otherwordly? Best Jim | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1256 Registered: 12-2001 |
The comparison is there, ostensibly to justify this as an on topic post. (Of course, the latest trend in OT style seems to be,"_______. Whaddya guys Think?"). Anyway... Got down to my friend's dealership by midday, and for once in a long while, it hadn't rained. The GT-2 next to any other stock p- car looks much lower. Everything pretty intuitive, seats very good so far (no big lateral G's quite yet). Exhaust sound is a little loud, but it seems to go harmonic under revs; sounds like a serious car. Nothing particularly special about the interior; gauge package fairly easy to read, computer assisted readouts a distraction, but speedo is small. Overall good visibility, even to the rear, despite the wing. Side mirrors shaped wonderfully; control switch cheesy. No clickety-clack from the shifter, heavy clutch (i like) and extremely well weighted steering (I hate over assisted steering). Driver sits pretty low, was able to adjust seat/mirrors/wheel to my liking pretty easily. The thing launches, and you don't really have time to watch the boost gauge cause it happens really fast. I suppose i've already adjusted to driving a turbo'd car, having slung our WRX around for the last year, so i know to keep the revs up, and not just punch it, cold. Feels like a large, and extremely fast, torquey go-cart. Pedal dancing pretty easy, got the hang of downshifting smoothly in no time, but for the turbo on/off aspect, probably just as easy to drive as a 550, but with a suprising amount of torque even before the boost really kicks in. The suspension is tight, but wasn't uncomfortable rattling back from Pennsylvania's finest roads, including the NE extension (which if you know it, sucks), thru Joisey, and an hour and a half of torrential rain. Car was entirely predictable, despite heavy ground water, low visibility and crowded conditions. I was able to clear traffic a number of times and get on it a little without any suprises. Still not taken high speed sweepers at high speed yet. I'll wait until its dry, and i know the car better. First impressions are perhaps a blithering insight into the obvious: the appearance of the car is totally steriodal, but not lacking in a certain elegance the comes from the techno-updating of the old bathtub design. It is not, however, an elegant car, but instead, more a brutal sleeper. The wing seemed to attract its share of yahoos right away. Oh, well. Interior nowhere near as elegant or aesthetically pleasing as the 550, but not cheap looking, either. Basic black, sort of boring, but i'm looking out the windshield most of the time. Switchgear like the turnsignal stalk and wiper control make stuff from the FIAT parts bin seem absolutely "bespoke billet"; hardly becoming for a car at this price range. Oh, did i say i drove the thing for several hours thru extremely shitty weather and had a total blast?! I think this thing will be fun to drive, even if it isn't as nice to look at in the garage. More to come, including pictures, when the sun comes out. Regards. |