| Author |
Message |
Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member
Username: Gilles27
Post Number: 1018
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 8:49 pm: | |
I've debated this with people as well, and I side with what PSk said. In a recent interview, Bobby Rahal alluded to that exact point. Street cars and racing cars are really developed in parallel worlds, and is often the case, road technology can lead that of racing cars. LeMans and F1 cars represent the pinnacle of automotive development--for racing. We are easily impressed, and rightly so, by the technical marvels that go into today's racing cars to sustain them from 90 minutes up to 24 hours. But I think in a way it's more impressive to build a car that will hold up for 200K miles over two decades with only routine maintenance. |
Justin Varghese (Justin_v)
New member
Username: Justin_v
Post Number: 18
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 8:27 pm: | |
Thanks for the replys. Any more additions?
-Justin |
Ken A (Zff)
Junior Member
Username: Zff
Post Number: 79
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 8:42 pm: | |
While I see a lot of "F1-inspired" technology on road cars, it seems there is very little actual F1 technology that trickles down... and what does trickle down trickles down VERY slowly. Computer-shifted gearboxes have been in F1 for what, 15 years now?
I don't know a lot about LeMans, but it seems like the technology is only slightly more "streetable" than F1. I'd imagine WRC yields the most streetable trickle-down technology.
I know auto manufactures who participate in racing always talk about how much road-car research is getting done, but I suspect it's entirely an image thing and the bit about the research is not really the case. |
PSk (Psk)
Member
Username: Psk
Post Number: 514
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 8:26 pm: | |
I think to answer this question you have to go back in history a bit.
It is definitely true that motorsport has moved the car technology and design forward, and thus many things learnt on the equivalent of F1 in the 30's, for example, became the norm for manufacturers like Alfa Romeo. Thus modern engine reliability and performance, etc. can be attributed to motor sport, as can the disc brake, etc.
It is NOT true anymore that F1 technology, Le Mans or any form of motor racing has any impact what so ever on the current road cars. The only current thing is the push button gear change thingy, gimick, and carbon brakes on some top end cars. This is not an example of using F1 technology but simply an advertising gimick to sell cars. The technology was around long before F1 ... remember Cord in the 50's, and other American cars ... and carbon brakes DO NOT work suitably for road applications ... thus a backward step unless you intend to track the car hard.
So lets look at the technology gained from motorracing in the last 30 years ...
The only thing I can come up with is exotic materials, ie. carbon fibre, etc. And not many manufacturers use that for STRUCTURAL members ... only gimicky stuff that cheap and simple fibre glass would do perfectly. Even Porsche are guilty of this with the carbon guards and dash panels, etc. Not an effective use of the strength of carbon at all and many Lotus's with fibre glass panels are just as light and strong enough.
Road suspension design NOWADAYS as little to do with track cars, as does braking systems (road brakes have to work efficiently at low temperatures and little and light use, etc. plus have split circuits for safety)
ABS and ASR (traction control or anti-skid) was developed for the road before racing ...
Aerodynamics/down force, etc. is probably one ...
Thus I would end this debate myself in saying that you both are dreaming if you think that technology relate to either anymore. Racing cars are very specific nowadays and road cars have miles more technology in them than even the latest F2003-GA Ferrari (yep, think of the manufacturing technology that goes into making a road car in 1hr, and all the safety engineering, space utilisation, economy and noise and vibration supression and long maintenance intervals, etc. plus navigational equipment ... )
In conclusion we got to where we are through motor sport technology but our race cars are now so specialised that it really is for prestege that companies race nowadays not to learn something ...
Pete
ps: Le Mans is a good reliability test, but we have been developing ROAD engines/gearboxes and diffs that can handle this abuse for over 30 years ... |
JT (Mightymagician)
Junior Member
Username: Mightymagician
Post Number: 70
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 2:22 pm: | |
IMO, i think it depends on what type of racing the manufacturer is most succesful in. ie: Ferrari=F1, Porsche=LeMans, Subaru=Rally, but i think the majory of it is from formula one. i get a kick out of watching that commercial of the guy pushing buttons to shift a pontiac grand prix. |
Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member
Username: Hugh
Post Number: 889
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 12:37 pm: | |
IMO, you're both right, kinda... technologically F1 and LeMans (I'm talking prototype cars here) develop on what I believe is a parallel track albeit F1 has more money, and progress quicker b/c of that, but none the less both racings series foster innovation at a rapid pace; however, and this is b/c the money's in F1, things develop in F1 first, or are born there, and then get adapted to other racing series; i.e., carbon brakes now on LMP cars. |
Justin Varghese (Justin_v)
New member
Username: Justin_v
Post Number: 17
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 12:28 pm: | |
Allright, here it goes guys. A friend of mine and myself have gotten into a recent argument about modern cars and where they're engineering is based off of. Well my point is that a lot of European and Japanese cars implement the technology gained from Formula One into their road going vehicles. For example, Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes(unsure), Honda, etc all use Formula One inspired something in their cars. He on the other hand claims, if anything, LeMans has a big impact of the current automotive technology. Okay, I don't know much about LeMans, but I'm sure that this type of racing is based on road going cars. So to end this argument, what do you think is the answer. Where do alot of street cars get their engineering/technology from?? Formula One or LeMans?? I think its LeMans. IF there are any other comments please post.
-Justin |
|