| Author | Message | ||
| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
Junior Member Username: Rumordude Post Number: 152 Registered: 9-2001 |
In the picture below, the fire release is that little red thing you see in the upper corner by the window -- so if i get knocked out anyone should be able to reach in. If the car is on the side, they can hit the fire extinguisher itself directly. I agree the seats don't weigh much and I actually put the second one back in for the 'friend' (read: "driving instructor") to come along. Also they are easy to put in and take out. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4857 Registered: 5-2001 |
Kevin, as for the 2nd seat I would think about that twice. If you get an OMP Kevlar seat they weigh litterally nothing. It leaves for a good day at the track with a friend next to you. (If you don't have any friends, I am always looking for a ride  ) As for the glass the all around glass is probably somewhere 70-100Lbs. I am gessing here but that is where I would weigh this in. The wheels are surely the Speedline Challenge wheels which are much lighter than stock 355 wheels. The wing should not be a whole lot unless you have an aftermarket wing, not the original wing. For side impact in the doors, yes that is true but that is why you have the roll cage with side impact bars. Basically the heavy doors is double overkill. I would add the expense and weight of a direct fire extinguisher system to the car. Have two Fire releases, one from inside easy to reach from Driver and Passenger and one from the outside in case you are knocked out cold in the car. | ||
| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
Junior Member Username: Rumordude Post Number: 151 Registered: 9-2001 |
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| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
Junior Member Username: Rumordude Post Number: 150 Registered: 9-2001 |
Heh, this is already a challenge car, it was raced in the 1998 challenge series. I have raced it in local club events for over a year (SCCA mostly only does solo crap here in WA, there is another club for real racing, ICSCC), but they have finally upgraded my license to go at it with their more senior drivers. The car has been classed into what they call SPM - which is basically a production car w/2.0-4.0 liter engine and no modification limitations, including weight. The primary issue around it is that the the challenge brakes are brembo's which are larger than the stock f355's, else i could probably fit into another class. So right now I am looking primarily at what sorts of weight savings I can muster out of here with emphasis on "removing things" rather than "replacing things". The second seat is on the list but the doors on that car -- man they are so heavy so the glass and automatic window up/down's are probably next to go bye-bye. | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 770 Registered: 4-2002 |
I've beeen thinking about this for a couple of days. If you are ready to make this car a track only vehicle, there is plenty of weight to remove at the front end. The front head lights, turn signals, headlight motors, windshild washer stuff are all removable, front grille, fog lights, interior carpeting, weather stripping. Remove the impact absorbing bumper and associate brackery, then add in just enough support to hold the bumper in place. Fog light location can be used to add a second cold air duct to the front brakes, or to cool the driver. In the middle, you can rip out all the carpets, headliners, leather, radio, A/C, air bags, change the windows to lexan, remove window motors, remove door pannels, remove steel guard beam. Racing seats. In the engine bay, remove the A/C compressor, tubes, computer covers, exhaust computers, change the Cats to test pipes, eliminate the muffler*, remove the inner fenders, remove the cold start emissions controls. Finally, remove the impact absorbing bumper/shocks and replace with light weight bracketry. Then you are going to want to add a NACA duct (at the front of) the rear diffusers to take some cold air and duct it towards the rear brakes. A second smaller set of NACA ducts can be used to direct cold air at the axel boots to prevent the red hot exhaust from baking the inner axle boots every weekend. On a race car; If it doesn't make it go faster, stop faster, or last longer; it doesn't belong. *if do do run a muffler, be sure to put some insulation between the mufler and the rear bumper. I know of several that have melted in spots. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 917 Registered: 1-2002 |
Gruppe M makes carbon fiber door cards, airbox, center console, rear diffuser, etc. check out their site: http://www.gruppemeurope.com/index1.html It's said, that for every 100lbs you remove, you gain 1/10 sec in acceleration (0-60); I'd work most on unsprung weight; i.e., wheels, discs, calipers, etc. I don't know how involved you'd like to get, but you can: remove all the sound deading material, the undercoating, the carpet, the interior sound deadening, the roof liner, all the carpeting and paneling in the nose, the a/c, stereo, heater core, etc... there's a lot in a typical passenger that can be excised... your creature comforts with them. | ||
| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
Junior Member Username: Rumordude Post Number: 149 Registered: 9-2001 |
the glass was high on the list of things to look at in the doors - along with the power windows etc. I wouldn't imagine it weighs 70 lbs though unless you're talking about all of the glass in the car combined? Dare I ask which panels are the heaviest/easiest/most cost effective to replace? of course i'd guess the front and back hoods both of which are aluminum now. (the wing seems pretty damn heavy too though) | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 453 Registered: 6-2002 |
Careful with doors, they have a lot of protective steel in the event of a side collision. CF is definately the way to go with lightweight. The CF parts I build are about 2/3rds the weight of equivlent size aluminum, and are stronger (in tensile, usually in 1 or 2 dimentions) than carbon STEEL... (though they are not automotive parts.) As Chris said; nomex or aluminum honeyconb can produce an amazingly light and strong structure. (Kevin just has to look at the F50! Best! Ben. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4840 Registered: 5-2001 |
I agree here. Body is the first part to go for. Easy and there are easy fixes for it. Chris can certainly help you on carbon work here. He does excellent work. I never realized how eavy the clutch and pressureplate truely is. You may want to look around and see if ther eis a lighter alternative out there. That sucker must be 40Lbs. The other thing is glass. Front and side windows in plastic with stick-on protective foil to peel off. There goes another 70 or so Lbs. | ||
| Chris Coffing (Valence)
Junior Member Username: Valence Post Number: 70 Registered: 3-2003 |
Specific gravity of carbon/epoxy composites vary, but are relatively comparable to aluminum and fiberglass. Structural low-density (commonly foam or honeycomb) cores reduce specific gravity of the entire laminate to unbelievably low levels. Strength and stiffness of carbon fiber laminates, however, is many, many times greater than that of aluminum or fiberglass. So, parts can be made much lighter with c/f because less (mass) of material is used. For example, we just made a BMW M3 hood that weighs about 10 lb. The stock steel hood weighs about 50 lb. Initial installation (using either the stock hardware or hood pins) takes between 30 min. and 2 hrs. I think that the benefit/cost ratio of swapping stock street bodywork for high-performance composite bodywork is actually higher than most other weight-saving techniques. I assume you've already removed sound-deadening material, stock seats, etc. | ||
| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
Junior Member Username: Rumordude Post Number: 148 Registered: 9-2001 |
what is the specific gravity of the carbon fiber you'd use on a car vs. aluminum or even fiberglass? Either way I would still think that replacing any major part of the body itself would probably have a greatly unbalanced "diet:cost" ratio. That is, forgetting temporarily the cost of the parts, the installation process in time/money would probably put these types of modifications out of bounds. I'm looking for the quick and easy stuff for another 50 or 100 lbs. ;) And the first person to say "take out the roll cage"... ;0! | ||
| Chris Coffing (Valence)
Junior Member Username: Valence Post Number: 68 Registered: 3-2003 |
For light weight, it's all about carbon fiber - and that's what we do well. It doesn't have to be outrageously expensive, either, especially compared to stock parts. A lot of other people on this board can tell you how tune your chassis and engine, but we'll make your car lighter. Much of this car is made of really heavy fiberglass and almost as heavy steel. You can save a lot of weight with replacement exterior and (some) interior parts - dash, tunnel, etc. e-mail me - I'm happy to help even if you don't want to buy anything. -Chris [email protected] (F-chat sponsor) | ||
| Jason Williams (Pristines4)
Member Username: Pristines4 Post Number: 403 Registered: 12-2002 |
Wasn't Art doing some major tuning? Taking out his cats or something? | ||
| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
Junior Member Username: Rumordude Post Number: 147 Registered: 9-2001 |
anyone here have any brilliant ideas? I have looked over the offering at koenig and the most obvious is the motronic chip, and if you're really into it, perhaps a twin turbo (And i'm not that into it). The doors on the car seem incredibly heavy (they of course still have the power window up/down crap). The heater and ac are mostly out already. I could rip out all of the extra leather etc but i am thinking < 3 lbs on that type of thing. Does anyone out there have a nice "this piece weighs this much" list? Even better: "weight:removal cost" ratio list? |