| Author | Message | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 364 Registered: 7-2002 |
There still are some Barn find 246's out there...you have to hunt around but they are there. There was a GTS that was clipped in the back on e-bay about a year ago...for someone with a shop it would have been an easy fix and Forza in CT had a coupe in primer that needed a resto. Having spent a bit of time looking for a half way decent one, I will say that there are a lot of "restored" cars that I wouldn't pay $25k for that people are looking for $65-75K for. On the subject of 308 prices..this past Decemeber I received a notice from Hagerty insurance stating that based upon their research my car 78 GTS was under-insured at $27,500...Their suggest agreed upon value was 32,000...so for a $50 increase in annual premium the car is insured for $32,000. Now, what is a 78 GTS with 72,000 miles, recent major service with belts, water pump, all new hoses, new suspension bushings, rebuilt steering rack, all books and records since day one and with decent/presentable cosmetics worth? I would think that a quote 14k mile car that needs all of the above work would be worth a heck of a lot less....plus, everyone knows that all those 14K-20K mile 308's don't all have such low milage (we know how easy it is to disconnect the sender)...its a joke...14K miles, new paint, new leather etc. | ||
| Greg (Greg512tr)
Junior Member Username: Greg512tr Post Number: 148 Registered: 2-2002 |
What is considered high mileage for a 308? 50k?, 60k? 70k? | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1237 Registered: 11-2002 |
Arlie, Why not go real monster with the project and get an L88 or the aluminum L-89 motors? The tripower is a beast. I drove one a couple of years back. Sick power. Those puny wheels can't take it. And 435hp? What a joke. Feels more like 535! Don't forget to get different lifters or otherwise the thing will ping and die on you. Unless you have race or airplane fuel on that sucker. Cheers | ||
| Dave White (Dwhite)
New member Username: Dwhite Post Number: 25 Registered: 5-2003 |
Arlie, Are you looking to restore and then show it? if not, why not just buy a 67, put a 427 in it or a 327 which could spin to 8K with a flat plane crank - now that would sound nice. I wanted a 65-67 cont. vette once but, felt 20K was insane at the time - who knows where the market will go, I have never bought a car with the thought of making money. I have said more than once on this site, for me, I get enjoyment from driving them, others find pleasure from the scupture. The collector examples start way over my budget for the tpye of cars I like . . .now where is that lotto powerball ticket? | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1320 Registered: 5-2002 |
"All cars that are vaguely cars anymore have been restored and are priced accordingly." Rich speaks the truth on that line. And not just about Ferrari. I've been keeping an eye out for a '67 427 Corvette hulk for years now. I just want an original 427 car that is missing the engine. Don't care what shape it is in. I have the hard to find items like the correct 1967 427 engine block, tripower intake, and air cleaner. But those cars don't seem to exist anymore. They were all restored 10 years ago. So the search goes on. What are the chances of locating a 246 Dino hulk in a barn these days? | ||
| rich (Dino2400)
Member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 279 Registered: 10-2001 |
The "costs of owning a Ferrari" are quoted at much higher amounts than the cost of owning other types of cars whose average owners do most/all of their own repairs. It is not so much the parts costs so much more (only a bit more) as the fact that "the costs" are usually quoted at full mechanic labor rate and brand new top priced parts. To many old car owners, "it needs a master cylinder" can mean as little as $50 for a rebuild kit and case of beer to drink with their buddy while doing it. To the average Ferrari 308 owner, this might be a $1000 problem (the pro mechanics here can let us know the drop it off and pick it up done costs). However, if the 308 owner wanted to rebuilt it themselves, kits are available for about the same price as for an american car: $25. Why do few Ferrari owners do their own repairs then? I suspect it's because most are in the situation that they make more in an hour of their own time then they'd pay out to a mechanic. They may have been in this situation for some time and therefore not had the necessity that teaches people how to do that sort of repair themselves or they may be great mechanics who know how to do it but when faced with giving up a weekend to work on the car vs. just cutting a check, they'd prefer to cut the check. I can see where that would make sense. If you can see yourself being the type who will have to or want to cut the check, and are the sort who only puts 14k miles on a car in 25 years, then you'd best shell out for a low mileage car that still looks pretty sitting in your garage. Since you will drive the car so rarely, you may get away with not having to do anything to it. The old hoses and belts and such may just hold up for the 10 years and 4k miles you'll use the car. And when you want to get out of it, you will have no trouble finding another guy who wants the car to sit in his garage for the next 10 years. For those that want to drive the car and can work on it themselves however, I can see some logic in buying a high mileage car priced at a significant discount, like a $20k 308. If you are going to drive the car, you don't need perfect paint and interior (unless you are very vain) because it's going to get damaged as you drive it anyway. What you need are good mechanicals. You're not going to get this on any low mileage car selling for $40k anyway. Even if it has has everything changed, you are going to run up enough miles that at least once in your ownership you are going to be looking at an engine rebuild and more. You're going to need to do the starter, alternator, and brakes. So maybe you just want to get it over with. Take the $15-20k you saved on the car and rebuild the engine yourself right out of the blocks and save what's left over for the future parts that fail. You'll then have the peace of mind that you can drive it the next four or five years without major problems, the peace of mind that only comes from turning every bolt yourself. If you like 308s, consider yourself lucky to have this choice between low mileage perfect cars or restored cars or high mileage slightly rough cars. I want a dino 206/246 and it sure seems like this choice is no longer available. All cars that are vaguely cars anymore have been restored and are priced accordingly. Wish I could find say a #2 or 3 cosmetic car in need of an engine rebuild and suspension work. Such a car would be a nightmare to those who pay to have work done but I'd be on the road $10k later (and with 25 more hp than stock), having a ball. | ||
| L. (Testaroja)
New member Username: Testaroja Post Number: 24 Registered: 5-2003 |
I dont care about market, my 88 testarossa with 31,000 miles its an $80,000, I know this car is right and super reliable, and also that any other that you buy with low miles even when they claimed to have all records and majors done they will take time and more money because of not driven enough. I bought mine with 9,000 miles and it took about a year and a half to get it right, and that was after buying from a factory ferrari dealer and with all records and a fresh 15,000 mile service. Low miles now to me equals large headaches. | ||
| Dave White (Dwhite)
New member Username: Dwhite Post Number: 24 Registered: 5-2003 |
Actually i belive it is condition, condition, condition. Mileage on these cars can be easily doctured, even with all the records. I know some of you felt I was being a snob with my coments, actualy i was just trying to be frank . . .no not Parker. Anyway I still feel that these cars are very expensive and I who have no money have been stagered at some of the bills I have paid. However, I have no children, cars are a passion of mine and I sacrafice some other things for them. I just truly believe that these cars are not for bargain hunters. I have restored cars and do alot of work on cars, but you still have to pay for the parts. My last words on this matter. Good luck to anyone who is looking for one. They are worth every penny. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 820 Registered: 8-2001 |
While I totally agree with James, he is not in the REAL world of Ferraris for sale. Like I said before, there are ONLY 3 things that dictate the value of a Ferrari: and they are; MILEAGE, MILEAGE, and MILEAGE.......not necessarily in that order. I am on my eight Ferrari, and EVERY time I sold one, it was ONLY the mileage that counted, and NOTHING else. Unfortunate, but TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| James (Jim_red308)
Junior Member Username: Jim_red308 Post Number: 60 Registered: 3-2001 |
The irony of low-mileage ferrari's commanding higher values than the higher mile cars. In fact, we've all heard the saying, "use it or lose it". Let us not forget that it is not best for any car, let alone a Ferrari, to sit around it's life and allow the seals to dry up! A driven Ferrari, well maintained, is probably the better bet Vs. it's garaged all it's life counterpart! Yes, one has lower mileage, but which is better mechanically? Hey, it's a Ferrari. Drive it and enjoy for crying out loud! Just my two cents worth! | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 1016 Registered: 10-2001 |
I'm not a gearhead yet, but I'm trying! | ||
| Jonathan Bird (Birdman)
New member Username: Birdman Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2003 |
Yeah! Gear heads unite!! -Jonathan | ||
| Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 559 Registered: 11-2001 |
Quote: ----- There are very few Ferrari owners that could be considered as "gearheads", even fewer that would consider having a "project car". IMHO ----- For a glimpse of how many gear heads are on this board, look over the Technical Forum. I'll start with Ric R, Steve M, Verell B, 75_308GT4, and the list goes on. Many gearheads (myself included) get as much pleasure fixing brakes as washing and waxing cars. There is room for everyone. | ||
| Collin Hays (Chaysintexas)
Junior Member Username: Chaysintexas Post Number: 135 Registered: 4-2002 |
What will be interesting to watch with the 308/328 series is where those values end up in, say another 20 years. As more and more are parted out and off the streets, fewer are available to actually DRIVE. And since the 308/328 series is considered by many to be one of the favorite pure sports car DESIGNS of the 20th century (having nothing to do with performance), it's going to be interesting to watch. | ||
| V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member Username: Ama328 Post Number: 158 Registered: 11-2002 |
If you buy a car not intending to sell it(ala, keep for the lonnnng term), then the resale value question disappears, leaving only these questions: * how much to get into the car. * how much $$ to keep it maintained/going. * how much for insurance costs. I know someone(  ) who did this with a 328(see him all the time), and he doesn't worry about resale value, just looks at older Fcars as future cars he'll own that are slowly working their way towards him... | ||
| Mike Dawson (Miked)
Junior Member Username: Miked Post Number: 106 Registered: 2-2001 |
Jonathan, I am glad to see another "hobbyist" here on F-chat. There are very few Ferrari owners that could be considered as "gearheads", even fewer that would consider having a "project car". IMHO, if you don't do most of your own work then you are closer to the poser end of the spectrum. I would be happier doing a brake job than wash/wax my car! Most owners are into other aspects of F-car ownership. Some will pay any price to have the best concours car parked in their garage or the fastest track car. Many want to be seen in an expensive, high visibility sports car and worry about how everyone else perceives them. None of those apply to me, but the reality is that the vast majority of owners/buyers/sellers fall into these catagories and that determines the market. That fact makes originality, documentation, low mileage and PPI's so important to to most people. Ferrari just isn't a "hobbyist" marque in the manner of MG, Alfa Romeo, Lotus etc. Look at what has happened to hot rodding ("gearheads" in their purest form) in the last 10-15 years. Now days almost all hot rods are "professionaly built" with the owners just writing the check. Fortunately there is room for everyone and every interest in this hobby. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 1007 Registered: 10-2001 |
Birdman, you are a man after my own heart! | ||
| Jonathan Bird (Birdman)
New member Username: Birdman Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2003 |
Hi Everyone, I am one of those guys that has been looking for a not-too-expensive 308. Not because of the prestige, not so I can be snobby, but because I have always wanted a 308 since I was a kid watching Magnum P.I.! I recently bought a '77 308 GTB that I would call a "fixer-upper". I looked for a car with a good body and frame and prepared myself for some work and investment, just as I would if I were buying a classic Corvette or VW bug. Any car of this age that isn't constantly maintained is going to involve cash to get it up to snuff. My car is never going to be a show car, 100% original, and I certainly don't have all the records. But it's still a beautiful looking car that makes me smile. The car cost me a little under $20K and I expect that by the time I'm done I'll put another $10K into it. But that will be spread out over a few years while I also drive it, tinker with it and enjoy it. For me, that's part of the fun, but maybe some people aren't into the tinkering and working on it. When I see the kind of money that kids these days throw into making their 1994 Civic loud and fast, a few grand here and there to keep and own my beautiful old Ferrari is worth every penny. "Ya gotta pay to play!" I may put more into it than it will end up being worth, but what the hell! For many people, the price of entry is important. I can buy a $40K mint Ferrari and finance it or I can buy a $20K Ferrari and get to enjoy it while I'm putting the rest of the money into it, or I can just forget the whole thing because I can't afford a $40K second car. Everyone has a different solution to the question. Collin, your post is interesting. One of the neat things about having a Ferrari is just that they are so rare. Lots of cars cost $35K these days. $35K will get you a mid-range BMW or Lexus, but everyone seems to have one of those these days. I pass HUNDREDS of $35K cars driving to work. I see several Porsches and Corvettes on the road every day. But Ferraris? How many do you see? I can count on one hand how many I see every YEAR (at least here in MA)! That's what's cool about them and that is why I think they are perceived as being so exclusive. When I mention that I have a Ferrari, most people think I'm lying. Love it! If they want to think I'm driving a $100K car, fine with me, as long as my insurance Co. doesn't think that!! Barry, don't ever sell that car. If you do, sell it to a relative that promises to sell it back if he/she ever wants to sell it! Best, -Jonathan | ||
| Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
Member Username: Owens84qv Post Number: 811 Registered: 10-2001 |
Rick...please remember that Ebay is the last place to be tracking the price of a car, let alone a Ferrari. There are so many of those Ebay car deals that never go through. Most people post their car (Ferrari) on Ebay to get the word out...that's it. By the way, any 308 with an asking price of $20K will have issues and will require a lot of patience and probably $5-8K to make it reliable and look nice. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1263 Registered: 11-2001 |
there is nothing wrong with having two ferraris that you drive! go for it, and ENJOY! life is exceptionally short, dude. doody. | ||
| Barry A. Freda (308barry)
New member Username: 308barry Post Number: 9 Registered: 6-2003 |
Martin: you know I was thinkin the same thing. Why would I want to sell this car. I really love the 360 and it so much faster, modern, smoother to drive and I just want to own one bad. But I have to tell you, I think having 2 Ferraris that I rarely drive is a bit over the top. Please keep telling me that I am crazy to doo this, maybe it will sink in. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4917 Registered: 5-2001 |
Barry if I were you I would NEVER sell that baby! I am sure if you are in the market for a 360 you can find $30K more somewhere. Heck refi the house if necessary but don't sell the 308. 25 years, that is family! | ||
| Barry A. Freda (308barry)
New member Username: 308barry Post Number: 7 Registered: 6-2003 |
I bought my 79 308GTB (Carbs) from Wide World in 1979 for $36,500. I am the original owner, car has 14,500 miles. I have been offered 28k from Wide World against a 360 Modena. I have cared for this car for almost 25 years. If I can't get 32-33K for the car, I'll keep it and give it to my grandkids someday. All in all, to lose 4-8K ain't bad in comparison to the rest of the wheels out there. Barry | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4890 Registered: 5-2001 |
So Collin, since you did not buy any of these 348s you also know to walk away and the sellers still have their cars. When we are talking about prices dropping it means what actually sells. Ther eis 360 Spiders in the FML for absolute outragous prices. Yes, they can ask for anything but the market is what actually sells not what is asked. Why should you care what others think as long as you enjoy the ride and the fun you get out of whatever your car is worth. Smiles are pricelsess! As for the intended question, yes, I agree the uneducated public thinks $100,000=Ferrari. When you tell them, no you can buy one for as little as $20,000 they can't believe it and when you tell them the Enzo is not $100K but $700K they have the same reaction. | ||
| Collin Hays (Chaysintexas)
Junior Member Username: Chaysintexas Post Number: 134 Registered: 4-2002 |
Martin, thanks for the calming words. Actually, though, like I said, I couldn't care less what someone thinks my car is "worth", be it $1K or $100K. My earlier posts I was just reiterating, that what something is "worth" varies from person to person. I know that from experience in looking for a 348. I've told a few guys "...your price is above market..." And they say "So...???" In other words, "Do you want the car? Here's the price." Screw the market. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4887 Registered: 5-2001 |
Collin, You may feel like someone stepped on your toes reg the price (worth) issue. This was merely as a perspective of price, since the question was are 308 prices dropping. Let me answer your question as this: The 308, no matter what engine type you have is a beauty and worth every penny, how much ever pennies you had to pay for it. It is classic and the lines are acceptable to a museum as being art. Don't get hang up on price and what your car is exchangable in Dollars today. As you have said yourself you would not sell for $30K, well since the market is lower that simply means you will not sell and that is more than okay. Prices for 308 have been most stable since I can remember. I bought 308s in 1991 for $39K (308QV) and today they are just a little less. Why get hung up about it. | ||
| Collin Hays (Chaysintexas)
Junior Member Username: Chaysintexas Post Number: 132 Registered: 4-2002 |
A little off the subject, but it's been my experience from comments that, to the lay person, every Ferrari from top to bottom is a "Ferrari", and it's automatically perceived to be a $100,000 car. To you 360 owners (and others) that's probably an insult, but it just seems like everyone thinks "Ferrari=$100,000 car". Now, I couldn't care less what someone perceives my car is "worth", but it still is interesting. Has anyone else observed this? | ||
| Peter B. (Gts308qv)
Junior Member Username: Gts308qv Post Number: 248 Registered: 5-2001 |
Every car is different and the purchase price does not always reflect the condition or tells you what is waiting around the corner. I bought an '85 QV a couple of years ago. Absolutely immaculate, inside and out. 25k miles, all documented, all service records etc.2 owners.BUT the car sat around for the last 6 years in a garage with a dust cover on it. Luckily I do my own service and repairs so it has been a fun project over the last 2 years. Due to the car not been driven regularily, I had to repair the following: Rear caliper seized, so re-did complete brake system/master. Heater hoses rotted out so needed replacing. Water pump rebuild. Major service with new Cam belts and tensioner bearings. Valve clearances, had to change 2 shims. Power windows seized up. Radiator hoses needed replacing. Radiator header tank rusted out. Gas tank hoses replaced. Koni shocks rebuilt.Aircon resealed and gassed. New ignition leads made up with new rotors installed. Metric Wheels changed to 16's as still had the original TRX's which were dry rotted and deadly. My point, even the most immaculate low mileage car can require just as much TLC as a high mileage cheaper one. So, there is no such thing as a cheap or problem free Ferrari regards less of how much you spend.The end result is of course I now have a reliable trouble free 308 which is fabulous to drive!! | ||
| rick catalano (Tatcat)
Junior Member Username: Tatcat Post Number: 93 Registered: 9-2001 |
just seen a nice one on ebay. went for 19000. | ||
| Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
Junior Member Username: Jjfinland Post Number: 176 Registered: 3-2001 |
The latest statistics from Europe, the avrage price for 308 was 40950$, there is 20 for sale in AUTOSCOUT.DE JJ | ||
| David McAlexander (Stuttgartdavid)
New member Username: Stuttgartdavid Post Number: 23 Registered: 5-2003 |
If you want to know what the current market is, try watching how long particular cars stay on the market. There are only 2 types of cars for sale: those that are merely listed for sale, and those whose owners want them sold. Act accordingly. | ||
| Jeffrey Wolfe (86mondial32)
Junior Member Username: 86mondial32 Post Number: 97 Registered: 5-2003 |
Dwhite.. I am so glad that most here think you were being a jerk. I personally have passed on 308's for low 20's that were in excellent shape and also have passed on 308's that were high 20's and in awful shape. I turn my own wrenches on everything except my Ferrari's ( Lotus, Maserati and Jag) and have found that your stupid comments about the price of ownership to be very offensive. IF I let the dealer do my work, Yeppers it would be excessive.. but I have found many independant shops that do just as good work for about half to two thirds the cost. And if you shop out your parts you can almost get down to the Corvette level. Save the ego boosting snobbery for the golf course ahole's... | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 533 Registered: 2-2001 |
I have one of those undesirable 2V FI cars ('82 GTSi; for about $2k you can get them to perform as well or better than a carb car (K&N, test pipes, Krank Vent and direct fire ignition; add another princely sum for good exhaust system and it will REALLY get up and go). What I like about mine is it starts right up, hot, cold, sea level or 11k ft. here in the Rockies. Smooth acceleration, no spitting or backfireing through carbs, less prone to fire; a 4v would of course be the best choice for those who want the ease of driving that comes with FI. As to resale, I know I can't demand a premium price but will ask a fair price. I would keep it or part it out before giving it away though. | ||
| Norm (32storm)
New member Username: 32storm Post Number: 24 Registered: 5-2003 |
There is nothing wrong with buying a high mile, or even ratty 308. The buyer just needs to be intelligent enough to recognize the cost to restore and/or service the car. But, it's not necessarily a bargain to buy a car that may need paint work, interior work, and requires service. A 20K car that needs a paint job, interior, and major service is not a 20K car. You need to compare the overall cost vs a nice example that may not require all those items. Even with proper documentation & service, still possible for the sh-t to hit the fan. A buyer shouldn't be naive to think just because a car had a major that it couldn't smoke a t-belt. Always possible for receipts for service to be fakes( or EPA/DOT papers on euro cars).But, people have been stamping vette blocks for years to have matching number cars. Any car, Ferrari or not, needs to a good look over prior to purchase. Just because an owner has receipts for new plug wires, were they actually replaced? How much enjoyment will one get having a cheap car sitting in the garage because you can't afford to fix it? Sean, if you want a cheap car buy a cheap car. Just realize the cost you may have to make it into a nice car, if that is your goal.Price a set a plug wires, or seat covers for the 308.....these aren't Corvette/GM type prices. You'll find as Dorothy said in the Wizard of Oz "I don't think we're in Kansas anymore". Arlie, would love to see that junk 308 at Pebble Beach or Cavalino. Could create a new nastiest road warrior class. Hell, add a set of K-Mart wire hub caps, some neon lighting around the heat shield, a little fur on the dash.....could have the makings of a future trailer queen. | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 220 Registered: 2-2003 |
Collin, Let me rephrase, The 2v Injected cars have less power and are generally not as sought after as the 4v and early 2v Carb cars. No offense intended earlier. | ||
| Collin Hays (Chaysintexas)
Junior Member Username: Chaysintexas Post Number: 130 Registered: 4-2002 |
Sean: Just recognize that the term "least desirable" is subjective. For my personal tastes, the 2V is more desirable than the carb's, but less desirable than the 4V's. You might think different, and that suits the heck out of me. However, if you find a 308 you want to make an offer on, 2V, 4V, or carb, don't bring the argument up to the seller that "Your car is the least (or second to least and so on) desirable." All you'll do is piss him off and he'll jack the price on you another $10K just to see you walk. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4864 Registered: 5-2001 |
Dave, somewhat cheap shot there. Sean, also not very diplomatic although I have to admit I was thinking the same as you were. Arlie, we should try that one day. I would love to see the faces at Cavallino, when you roll in the beaten up 308 and lay out the leather pouch and tool roll on the lawn, flip open the chair and umbrella and sit next to your beaten up hunk of steel. Gosh looking into those faces would be just priceless  | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 219 Registered: 2-2003 |
You're right Doug, I better buy something else. I can't keep up with the arrogance of some of the owners, especially on this board. | ||
| Dave White (Dwhite)
New member Username: Dwhite Post Number: 23 Registered: 5-2003 |
Sean - what are you currently driving? Please note, what you read next is not meant to offend you or any other prospective buyer. I think you should buy something else, you will not be able to afford the car. These things cost big money, this is just some advise( I am not trying to disuade you but, you sound very unaware). These cars were 60K new in 1983 - my QV windowed at $64K+, who do you think was buying them and what do you think ferrari symbolizes? be prepared to pony up for that prestige. Just a fact. Everone here who ownes and drives knows what I am talking about. Go buy a perfect corvette or a older viper, reliable, fast and no matter where you go no one will care . . . well maybe the viper. If you really are serious these people here will help you but, you must open your mind and listen. Many of the people here are very knowlegdable and extremly successful(sans me). I have learned and met some wonderful people thru this site. good luck. | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 218 Registered: 2-2003 |
Rob, Martin, JRV, thank you very much, that is exactly what I'm talking about. JRV has a 10k 1977 GTB for sale for $40K. Guess what, because it is a low miles car, and it has been cared for (by JRV no less) it will command a premium, and it will eventually get it. However, that same car, even with JRV's care, with 50K miles is not going to get $30K. Fact of life. Those who say they wouldn't part with thier 308's GTSi's (no offense, but they are the LEAST desireable of the 308 range) with over 30K miles for less than $30,000 say that because they don't want to sell it. If they did, it would be priced accordingly. Like I said, I've been watching for 6-months. The high miles cars priced like low miles cars are NOT moving. | ||
| Jeffrey Wolfe (86mondial32)
Junior Member Username: 86mondial32 Post Number: 96 Registered: 5-2003 |
AMEN to some of the posts here. When we trusted a VERY well known exotic car dealer,out of state, to locate and check out our MOndy we expected things to be in order. I asked all of the right questions: Does it have all of the tools? Have the service records been kept in order? How is the leather and paint? Does it need a Major? All of the answers were good and also totally wrong! It arrived missing most of the tools. The paint was fine but the seats had been re-dyed ( badly). There were no records and it had not had it's major( but it was due). When we had the car checked out locally we were told it was one of the strongest runners that Shelton had ever seen in a MOndial 3.2 and was very healthy overall. So we got lucky but learn a lesson... you can be told anything and pay top dollar but it does not mean crap. Dealers lie just as often as owners and it's all a gamble. BTW.. the MOndy we almost bought ( with less miles and looking perfect) blew up within a month of being sold. We know this because we saw it on Ebay and talked to the owner. | ||
| DJParks (Djparks)
Member Username: Djparks Post Number: 316 Registered: 2-2003 |
I agree with the points made by Arlie and Martin. All true and valid from my own experience. I would like to add to that by saying there are no guarantees that the service book hasn't been 'short' stamped, the speedometer disconnected for a number of years, that SOME of receipts weren't fabricated (it's been done) to 'round out' the service history, that a belt did indeed strip and the valves on a bank were bent. How would you know, as a first time buyer, that a head has been off the engine? Not many would unless familiar with Ferrari engines. How would you know how many times the car was overheated before the owner got the fans fixed? Or run out of oil? Ran the gearbox dry? The answer to all of this is, You don't! No guarantees! Not just on Ferraris but on all cars. A thorough PPI on the car is the only way to come close to making an educated decision on a purchase and hopefully that will be based on the merits of the car ITSELF and not a stack of paper. Thats the way I feel about considering a major purchase like that. It has also been my experience that paying more up front for a car in better condition is better in the long run that picking up a great deal with cancer bubbles under the paint. What is YOUR time worth?. Hope this helps you in looking for the right car for the right price. DJ | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 1037 Registered: 3-2002 |
One of the car mags, I think Car & Driver--not positive--just ran an article about the best lower market collector cars for investment purposes. Among them was the 308. Another was the BMW 2002. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1301 Registered: 5-2002 |
Martin, perhaps I could buy a junker 308, trailer it to a show, and yet STILL display all the records in a gold inlayed leather pouch. Or at least display all the receipts for all the necessary parts for restoration. Or maybe just the ESTIMATES for a restoration. That way I wouldn't feel "left out". Yeah, I think that's the ticket! | ||
| Dave White (Dwhite)
New member Username: Dwhite Post Number: 22 Registered: 5-2003 |
Martin Bingo, That is what it is all about driving, not looking at. To drive a ferrari will cost you, it is the price you pay for enjoyment. Just like anything in life, want a pool in the back yard -money, play golf a country club - money. The people who think they will find a ferrari bargain are very naive. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4859 Registered: 5-2001 |
Arlie, for one I have to agree with you. However as you can see from some of the other posts the cost of restoring a Ferrari si something entirely different than a old Corvette. It can easily eat a whole in your pocket. Most guys here have more money in their cars than what they are currently worth. Buying a not 100% and trying to bring it to 100% is a honorable thing to do but can become costly. If you know what you are doing go for it. The service book in gold bound leather pouch...I agree, that is Concourse bull that you will not need unless you have in mind displaying your car instead of driving it. | ||
| Troy W Scrapchansky (Au_fan)
New member Username: Au_fan Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2003 |
I not so sure that its people who own Ferrari�s that have the �it better be perfect with all service documentation available� mentality. I just bought my first Ferrari, and while it did have all records from 0-15K and from 21-47K, there was an obvious gap in the records. It surprised the heck out of me that these records weren�t maintained. Did it surprise me because it was a Ferrari? No. I maintain every record for every vehicle that I have ever owned and provide it when selling the vehicle. While I realize that I am probably the freak, I don�t understand why everyone doesn�t do that. For me it doesn�t matter if its my recently acquired 328 or the rusted out, still running 1986 Ford Ranger with 240K in the driveway. | ||
| Tony Roberts (Pantera)
Junior Member Username: Pantera Post Number: 228 Registered: 6-2003 |
Horsefly, You sure get right to the point! | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1299 Registered: 5-2002 |
"There are a lot of buyers that can afford to pull the trigger, and buy a Ferrari, they just can't afford to maintain it. Let the buyer beware, who gets one of these 20K bargains." Perhaps the above statement underlies a critical difference between a Ferrari owner and other classic car owners. Ferrari owners always seem to demand a car that is FULLY functional with all known records and history. Why is that? Does one have to have a copy of the latest maintenance records as verification that the car is not going to self destruct the first time you punch the accelerator? Most any Corvette buff, Ford Cobra buff, or MG buff would be happy to stumble across a restorable car at a cheap price and grab it up for a future project. But it seems that most of the Ferrari guys will look down upon a car just because it doesn't come with a leather bound, gold inlayed records book? GEEEZZZZZZ guys, can't you just accept the car for what it is? Or are they so delicate that you're afraid that you're buying a ticking timing belt bomb? What are you guys going to do when there are NO MORE low mileage, excellent condition 308 Ferraris to buy? Then you will have to accept reality and do like the rest of the antique car guys do: buy a car and fix it up without any guarantee from anybody. How many 1963 Corvettes or Ford Cobras or Dodge Hemis come with an iron clad guarantee that THEIR engines will last the next 30 thousand miles??? That wouldn't stop a car buff from buying one of those if they found it in a barn. | ||
| Norm (32storm)
New member Username: 32storm Post Number: 23 Registered: 5-2003 |
As far as Ferrari's dropping in price, it is no secret that it is a soft market for most Ferrari's, & Lambo's for that matter. As was noted earlier, the exceptions tend to be the vintage stuff. But, I agree that price seem to be in a relatively stable range on the 308/328's. Every year the factory continues to pump out units, that sooner or later become yesterdays news.Who would have thought Testarossa prices would be found just north of nice 328 $'s. But, the price of a Countach is way down as well. Look at how 456's have dropped in a relative short time. But, as I was reminded when I purchased my Ferrari, buy what you like, but don't buy it as an investment. With Ferrari, it as simple as you get what you pay for. A cheap Ferrari is just an entry ticket to the game. Need a clutch? Major service? Seat covers or interior? New rag top? These are not Corvettes or muscle cars. Parts are not cheap, and you have limited options on service providers who know what they are doing. But, it's the buyer's responsibility to do their homework and get a handle on what parts and services can cost. This is also the reason, you see cheap examples for sale. A testarossa for 45K, but needs 20K in work....a real bargain. There are a lot of buyers that can afford to pull the trigger, and buy a Ferrari, they just can't afford to maintain it. Let the buyer beware, who gets one of these 20K bargains. | ||
| Collin Hays (Chaysintexas)
Junior Member Username: Chaysintexas Post Number: 127 Registered: 4-2002 |
With Ferraris (even 308's), there are so few of them, there really is not "baseline" price that one can accurately rely upon. Each car has its own individual stories and excuses. A 308 that is in excellent condition with documented service records and no mickey-mouse add-ons or repro this or that afixed - just try to go find one of those at ANY price. $25K for a car with some excuses, $35K for a car with no excuses, it all depends on the buyer and what he's looking for. My 2V is a known quantity to me, and it's not worth anything less than $30K to part with. Think that's too high? Well kiss my rear-end and go find yourself one cheaper. It's a free country. If someone's "motivated" to sell ANY Ferrari (and I mean ANY) for a dime under $30K, you'd better make sure you investigate the motivations fully. Not saying that the deal isn't out there, but be prepared to sift through a lot of "excuse" cars on the way to your destination. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4854 Registered: 5-2001 |
The notion that you have to spend high $$$ for a good car that will cost you less down the road is just bull. It comes all down to PPI. And as Rob said, you will find a 2v 308i for $20-$25K. But you will find a good car as well as a bad car for the same price. The owners of the shitty cars think the best of their cars as well as the owners of the good cars are mostly more reasonable in their pricing. A 2v 308i is the least desirable and will not bring more than $ 25K, unless you find a sucker that is willing to spend bling for something that is not there. We have all kinds of guys and girl here . One will tell you you need to buy only one owner cars with oil chnage receipts from 1982, everything else is crap. Yep, pay $10,000 extra for that receipt my friend and still find out a month later you need a new clutch and flywheel and the syncros are going bad because the speedo has been disconnected from 1983 to 1999 on your prestine 5K Miles 308. Prices on the 308s have been mostly stable. All those under $20K are usualy in need of some repairs of re-conditioning but 2v i's are $20-$25K, the 4v QV's are $30-$35K. There are some exceptions. We have a 3000 Miles QV that is being offered to us in excellent condition. This is a hard to price car. I personally thing the car should bring low $40s if documented. | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 474 Registered: 4-2002 |
Tony, Please, with sugar on top and a cherry, LISTEN... There is MUCH wisdom in this thread. Read what others are saying as i, too, looked and looked for a LONG time (years on and off) for a late model 308. PPI'ed four cars total... and that alone cost me over $1k! Three cars being duds but CLAIMED otherwise. Like the folks on message boards, people can say anything. (Said in good humor my friend) i hear you can get a Pantera for $10k... Just a joke!!! Ok, back to being serious as i would hate to see you in deep doo doo in service bills. Wish you the best finding a very sound and solid later model 308 (1983 on up) for under $34k FINAL price. While there might be the odd and rare bargain under $32k, you HAD BETTER be in the right place at the right time. If not, get a $30k car and expect to spend another $5k++ taking care of things within the first year of ownership under "normal" driving. Wishing you all the best... Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin PS: i would rather pay a bit MORE for a car i KNOW is well cared for and properly maintained. The few extra $k is NOTHING if something major goes wrong with your el cheapo 308... or ANY exotic sports car for that matter. Generally... you get what you pay for. | ||
| Dave White (Dwhite)
New member Username: Dwhite Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2003 |
I never take advise from a person who has not owned a ferrari or workedd on a ferrari they don't know the intracacies of the entire package(ownership costs). Sorry for being blunt but, they are just speculators. | ||
| JPM (John_308qv)
Junior Member Username: John_308qv Post Number: 139 Registered: 4-2001 |
PANTERA.NET? Is this a place to find out what 308's going for? | ||
| Tony Roberts (Pantera)
Junior Member Username: Pantera Post Number: 211 Registered: 6-2003 |
Look under bulletin board click on cars for sale. Scroll down you will see 3 or 4 comments about the 308's. | ||
| Dave White (Dwhite)
New member Username: Dwhite Post Number: 18 Registered: 5-2003 |
Rob to further my point. I bought an 83 QV 2 yrs ago. This car was a 2 owner w/ all reccords 47K did a ppi at F of Long Island all was great. They said should do a major after the 1st summer. Did it and replaced a clutch and the rear main seal while they were in there. Then I wanted to have the suspension done and went with 16 inch rims w/ so3s, because I want the best, always have, always will. This ain't no dream of mine this is a serious road car. Why have a 2nd class piece of equipment. Bottom line I have 50K into the car, what is it worth probably just north of 35K compared to the crap i have seen at some of the events I have been to and what I have seen in the market. | ||
| Tony Roberts (Pantera)
Junior Member Username: Pantera Post Number: 210 Registered: 6-2003 |
WWW.Pantera.net | ||
| William Huber (Solipsist)
Intermediate Member Username: Solipsist Post Number: 1118 Registered: 9-2001 |
"I just read on another website that there dropping in price. Do you find this to be true?" What website Tony? Provide us the link. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1720 Registered: 11-2002 |
Rob, SPOT ON ! | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5345 Registered: 12-2000 |
Tony and Dave, I have to disagree with part of what you've said or haven't really said (if that's possible). 1) Asking prices are useless and tend to be more optomistic with Ferraris than any other car. 2) Just because a car is priced at the bottom end or top end doesn't mean the car is at the bottom end or top end. Make your decision based on viewing the car and having a qualified 3rd party PPI. 3) John, price for a good 308 GTSi is $20-25k. Watch out because the price for ones that need $20k in work are also $20-25k. | ||
| Tony Roberts (Pantera)
Junior Member Username: Pantera Post Number: 206 Registered: 6-2003 |
Dave, I could not have said it better myself! | ||
| Dave White (Dwhite)
New member Username: Dwhite Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2003 |
Sean What are you expecting for 25-30K. If you find a good car for 35-40 you will have a good car. There are NO ferrari bargains. Low priced cars need work, work cost money even if you do it yourself, parts are not cheap. This ain't no FORD or even a Mercedes. Dreamer need not apply. | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
Member Username: Milo Post Number: 287 Registered: 4-2003 |
If you want one bad enough you will pay the going price. Supply and demand. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1718 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>80'GTSi with 40K for $35K..yeah, right. 85'GTS Qv with 57K for $39K ... << WOW... Now I know why my clients perfect cars that are for sale have drawn no interest. They're priced to low! | ||
| John Perry (Perryaviation)
New member Username: Perryaviation Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2003 |
I'm holding out to Dec. seems to be a good month, and hoping to pick up one for 20k-25k Rob does this sound reasonable for a 308 GTS/i ?? | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 216 Registered: 2-2003 |
What website? I've been looking for 6-months and it kills me what some poeple expect for thier cars. They don't really want to sell them. 80'GTSi with 40K for $35K..yeah, right. 85'GTS Qv with 57K for $39K ... I'm almost ready to give up hope of finding something I like and use the money for something else. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5344 Registered: 12-2000 |
Most Ferraris have dropped in price over the past couple years. The exceptions would be the classics, I mean vintage, I mean rare, well anyway, you know what I mean. The Lusso is an example of that. | ||
| Tony Roberts (Pantera)
Junior Member Username: Pantera Post Number: 196 Registered: 6-2003 |
I just read on another website that there dropping in price. Do you find this to be true? |