| Author | Message | ||
| Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
Junior Member Username: Scott63 Post Number: 102 Registered: 4-2003 |
It's assembly number 27689. Even some 98's had lower assembly numbers. Sorry, I do not have a copy of the service bulletin. I just copied down the number. | ||
| Bo Bo Bear (2cool)
New member Username: 2cool Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2003 |
Scott: Do you have a copy of the FNA notice with number? What dealer showed it to you? | ||
| Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
Junior Member Username: Scott63 Post Number: 101 Registered: 4-2003 |
Don't get confused with assembly number versus VIN number or engine number. This is based solely on assembly number. I have seen the service bulletin from FNA stating the numbers. The recent 97 with the problem had an earlier assembly number.... My dealer showed me the service bulletin and I was able to confirm it through FNA over the phone. | ||
| Bo Bo Bear (2cool)
New member Username: 2cool Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2003 |
Good luck by going by assembly number..there's a old post with a number..then a recent one that was built significantly past the number..which turned out to be bronze. FNA..was no help...all dealers I contacted,,couldn't confirm..and the true only way is looking into the engine..impossible during a PPI. Anyone else have better luck?? Would like to know..been a deal breaker for me. | ||
| Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
Junior Member Username: Scott63 Post Number: 99 Registered: 4-2003 |
You are able to confirm the composition of the guides by the vehicle assembly number. The factory switched over to steel after a specific vehicle assembly number. Check with your local Ferrari dealer or call FNA for the changeover number. | ||
| Bo Bo Bear (2cool)
New member Username: 2cool Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2003 |
I just past on a "98" that was manufactured in Nov 97. No one could confirm if the car had bronze v. steel guides. No one. And if the problem came up...50/50 chance I was told...I would be looking at $15K in cost. Put a real damper on an otherwise great deal and a dream come true. Should I start looking for at 99?? | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
Junior Member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 193 Registered: 3-2003 |
Martin, You gotta love those inexpensive solutions. Glad to hear you got back "on track" quickly. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4915 Registered: 5-2001 |
Andy, the Challenge had fouled spark plugs. Good I caught it because the seal for the spark plug housing was bad and water was retaining under there coroding on the spark plugs themselves. New plugs, new seals and she is cranking! I agree Scottsdale has done right and are to comment for their honesty. I said it is much easier to do and find out now since the engine is out anyhow. It will cost significantly less, since you do not have to drop the engine to do it. As for the 1997 cars, I heard that too but the official recall was only on early 95s. I believe there were in fact 2 individual problems with the valves. One valves, one guides? | ||
| Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
Junior Member Username: Scott63 Post Number: 97 Registered: 4-2003 |
Dave and Martin, I was happy with the price that I paid for this car because of the condition and service history and the reputation of the dealer I purchased it at... While trying to negotiate, the dealer was happy to show me what he paid for the car and the associated costs for the service and a few other minor requests that I had asked for (front spoiler repaint and mobile phone removal). Everyone is in business to make a profit. Given the facts, I now think the dealer is under water because the profit on the car was roughly $5K. In any event, I would definately buy another car from Scottsdale Ferrari! | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
Junior Member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 190 Registered: 3-2003 |
Dave Helms, Thanks for the perspective. Its logical and could be the true explanation. Andy | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1751 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>Bottom line is it was a class act none the less, dealer or independent! << Have to agree with you. Scottsdale Ferrari definately deserves credit for honesty and integrety in this situation! >>>Anyone that thinks that is related to the fact it is a "dealer thing" only is a few bricks short of a full load! <<< Totally agree!! >>>As long as all parties are happy, its a grand slam, and the people involved should be proud of a well done sale.<<< Absolutely!!!! Too bad more deals don't have such happy endings. | ||
| Dave Helms (Davehelms)
Junior Member Username: Davehelms Post Number: 61 Registered: 5-2003 |
1) the valve guide problem extends well into 97, as I have a 97 apart for that problem now! 2) The 95 with redone valve guides is close to the ultimate 355 (if you can overlook the problems with the 2.7, fouled plugs, chk engine lights....) They are MUCH quicker than the later cars. 3)My bet is the dealer cost for the guides is near $30/guide x 40. The machining cost is significant, not to mention having to remove both heads and all the related parts (ie. a MAJOR job, with a very real expense!) 4) Dealers, or anyone for that matter, dont just give things away. Its about that "for profit" thing. Most likly the past owner payed for it on the trade, and there was some give and take on the salesman end ..... Bottom line is it was a class act none the less, dealer or independent! I have seen and delt with quite a number of independents that have done the same, its all in the numbers, either they bought it right, or they sold it right, or both. Anyone that thinks that is related to the fact it is a "dealer thing" only is a few bricks short of a full load! As long as all parties are happy, its a grand slam, and the people involved should be proud of a well done sale. | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
Junior Member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 186 Registered: 3-2003 |
Martin, I can't say that I have done Ferrari valve guides yet but I would imagine you can't install new guides with just the cam covers off. The heads would have to come off then the cams come off, valves, springs, retainers, etc come off, then you can start to replace the guides. I would estimate this at a $5,000 job if done right and I doubt the dealer would do this repair out of the goodness of their heart. By the way, what was the final solution on your Challenge Car's starting problem? I recall that it started in the garage but wouldn't after sitting outside all day. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4861 Registered: 5-2001 |
Scott, congrats, you will love the 355. I start to get used to them as well. Even the power steering kind of "grows" on me now, although I still enjoy the Challenge car and its heavy feel. My comments, Scott, were not directed at you or the car. I just get pissed when I read the "Klugscheisser"'s that think they know everything and make the service so important and know that 1990 348s have a 2.5 Motronic and all those tales. You have a great car. As Steve R would say: enjoy the ride  | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 4860 Registered: 5-2001 |
"It's a well known fact that 1995 355's had bad valve guides. With all the research that you did how did you overlook this!" as answered before, there was a limited, early number of cars that had the problems. Discrediting 95s in general is dumb and proves you did not do the research yourself, otherwise you would know. Further proves my point that you do not want to buy a low miles car. Buy someting with miles and the problem has either cropped up or is a none-issue. "see, it does pay buying from an authorized dealer!" sure the dealer can pay for the valve guides. They pay virtually nothing for them and had the cover off in the first place. So no real expense for them. Also they probably overcharged the customer in the first place and now have only a few hundred bucks extra to cover. Here is what I would question: If this car is a 1995, why is the 30K service done now???? Where are all you nay-sayers? The proper 15K service was not done in 2000, why would you buy this car???? Ah, maybe it is not that important? | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1731 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>What color is the sky in that special place? << Hope it's Blue...so he can consider himself wealthy with all the Blue Sky he's been sold while he lives in LaLa Land. My how soon they forget that their House of Worship designed & sold the failed product in the first place, then denied it's existance, then finally admited to a few anomolies, then completely changed the design! | ||
| Dave Helms (Davehelms)
Junior Member Username: Davehelms Post Number: 60 Registered: 5-2003 |
JRV, couldnt agree with you more! What color is the sky in that special place? Pretty classy move by Simon. I had many good experiances with Jim at Scottsdale on a dealer to dealer level. Very impressed! | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1729 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>>Even if FNA did have a stealthy or public warranty extension on this problem, an **unauthorized shop** couldn't take advantage of it.<< That type of BS statement and the attitude behind it cracks me up!!! | ||
| Jens Haller (Jh280774)
Member Username: Jh280774 Post Number: 848 Registered: 9-2001 |
Scott, Great experience! Nice you got out of that without any disadvantage. Buying from official dealers can be helpful sometimes, I guess! Enjoy your 355 and drive it a lot! The more you drive the better it gets. At least that�s my experience:  Con saluti cordialissimi, Jens Haller | ||
| Tony Roberts (Pantera)
Member Username: Pantera Post Number: 262 Registered: 6-2003 |
Scott, Your very lucky! | ||
| Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
Junior Member Username: Scott63 Post Number: 94 Registered: 4-2003 |
It doesn't really matter to me.... That's what they told me tonight. | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
Junior Member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 175 Registered: 3-2003 |
How can you be sure they are doing it at their expense? | ||
| Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
Junior Member Username: Scott63 Post Number: 92 Registered: 4-2003 |
Andy, FNA is not picking up the tab, the dealer is... Scottsdale Ferrari told me that they would fix any problem they found while doing the 30K service. Even though this was not in writing, they stuck to their promise... | ||
| Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
Junior Member Username: Tuttebenne Post Number: 174 Registered: 3-2003 |
Sounds like Ferrari NA stepped up to the plate. Dealers don't usually give labor and parts away. But as others have said, you are dealing with someone who took care of the problem. Even if FNA did have a stealthy or public warranty extension on this problem, an unauthorized shop couldn't take advantage of it. | ||
| Tony Roberts (Pantera)
Junior Member Username: Pantera Post Number: 246 Registered: 6-2003 |
Scott, Good luck with your car, you made a fine choice! | ||
| Ricky Nardis (Rickyn_f355)
Member Username: Rickyn_f355 Post Number: 375 Registered: 8-2002 |
yeah, same with me for the clutch but i think i'm going to do it anyway... | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1718 Registered: 10-2002 |
Scott It does pay to use good people. Congrats & enjoy! Best | ||
| Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
Junior Member Username: Scott63 Post Number: 91 Registered: 4-2003 |
The car has 8K miles.... They looked at the clutch and it is fine.... I basically had them look at everything because you guys scared the s**t out of me!!!! | ||
| Ricky Nardis (Rickyn_f355)
Member Username: Rickyn_f355 Post Number: 374 Registered: 8-2002 |
see, it does pay buying from an authorized dealer! :-) btw, i dont think u r crazy...that's a big reason why i wont sell my car, because i know the valve work has been taken care of. Are you having the clutch done when they pull the motor out for the 30K? Enjoy! | ||
| Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
Junior Member Username: Scott63 Post Number: 90 Registered: 4-2003 |
Tony, After speaking to many dealers as well as a contact at FNA, the problem has been limited to very few cars ( a few percentage points). Since I know a number of 355 owners who have as many as 50K miles on their cars with no problems, I took the chance. By the way, Ferrari didn't change over to steel guides until late 97/early 98. It is by no means limited to 95. | ||
| Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
Junior Member Username: Scott63 Post Number: 89 Registered: 4-2003 |
Yes, the price included the 30K service. Now it also includes the guides!!! | ||
| Tony Roberts (Pantera)
Junior Member Username: Pantera Post Number: 245 Registered: 6-2003 |
It's a well known fact that 1995 355's had bad valve guides. With all the research that you did how did you overlook this! | ||
| Ricky Nardis (Rickyn_f355)
Member Username: Rickyn_f355 Post Number: 373 Registered: 8-2002 |
scott, did u buy the car from them? | ||
| Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
Junior Member Username: Scott63 Post Number: 87 Registered: 4-2003 |
I know you must think I'm nuts, BUT..... Many of you know that I just purchased a 95 355B from Scottsdale Ferrari. The car has only 8K miles but needed the 30K service. They started the service on Monday and I just received a call from the dealership. When they ran a compression test, one cylinder was down a bit so they pulled the head and found one of the guides to be loose. They are replacing all the guides with the sintered steel guides at no cost to me. My car will be delayed a bit more, but I can put the valve problem to rest for myself as well as when I go to resell the car in the future. The dealer could have easily covered up this problem (by the way, I drove the car and it ran great...) I would not hesitate a second to recommend Gary Simon and the entire team at Scottsdale Ferrari!! |