| Author | Message | ||
| Chris F. (Chrisfromri)
New member Username: Chrisfromri Post Number: 46 Registered: 1-2003 |
I rarely turn on the stereo in either of my sports cars, as the sounds of driving are what I want to listen to. However, in my quiet sedan (with its optional JBL designed stereo) I have been pleasantly surprised at how natural a car stereo can actually sound. A good car stereo seems much more important in a sedan application. Kind Regards, Chris PS: I have considered myself an audiophile for over 25 years. | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 415 Registered: 10-2002 |
Perhaps it is quieter in a 456?  | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3923 Registered: 9-2001 |
Just my humble opinion but why kill yourself to make hi-hi fi in a car. You have that engine screaming which will affect any music your ears are hearing | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 1008 Registered: 10-2001 |
Let's see...Japan makes some wonderful guitars these days yet has the WORST bands. It's my fave cuisine, reliable but 'souless' sports cars (meaning they don't break like our Italian and British favorites), excellent electronics, bizare game shows, one of the most closed societies yet are the most polite to your face... So they're pretty much like everyone else; some good, some bad. I'm not sure I have a point here... | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 485 Registered: 4-2002 |
Adrian, A most humble thanks. Glad you enjoy the Enjoy the Music.com website. (Humor) LOL :-) i ONLY listen at 150dB on up :-) Seriously, Keith Johnson sounds very familiar. Meet soooooo many people each year due to shows, etc., my brain simply can not store all the information. Have been e-mailing my friend Bill Burton to have my writings in Mobile Electronics. Would like to see more focus on live acoustic music and how to reproduce it. Also, the various intricacies of live music as performed within various venues. Enjoy the Music, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| adrian low (Audionut)
Junior Member Username: Audionut Post Number: 213 Registered: 4-2003 |
Steven, you're an IASCA judge? SAY IT AIN'T SO! Was that you I saw judging my car, you know, the contest where you close all windows/doors, then crank up the audio to see if you can jump the car purely by spl? WAS THAT YOU? LOL. Love your site. O.T.Have you ever spoken to Rick Fryer/Keith Johnson? They are 2 of the men I admire most in the audio world today as they ACTUALLY have REAL consistent access to the music they are trying to reproduce. Really nice and honest guys. | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
Member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 253 Registered: 12-2002 |
Steven, Excellent post. I'll go one step further and say there are sooo many variables even in the electronics stuff. I'm in electronics design/manufacture, and many of the components we use are American (National, Fairchild, AMD) while others are knockoffs of American designs (usually interconnects, switches, etc). Is a chinese-made circuit board worse than a US one? In my experience, the opposite is true - the Chinese have PCB manufacture and assembly down pat. I would say those that dismiss any piece of equipment due to origin and claiming it's inferior as it's not US made are the ones who are ending up with worse equipment due to their biases. JMHO though. Most companies have different products produced in different places... one Bose stereo may be US made and another from Taiwan. You just don't know. Some companies make great stuff, but occasionally release a piece of junk. How do you tell it all apart? Each product needs to be evaluated on it's own merit. Maybe one stereo from Pioneer is great and another is terrible - you can't look at specs alone and you can't consider origin either. Best advice would be to hear honest individual reviews from folks that know what they're talking about and have heard the stuff in question. I would also say that a car is a HORRIBLE place to do any real listening (acoustically speaking), and I've spent hundreds on car stereos and I've spent many thousands on car stereos and I honestly can't say there was much of a difference once you get about about a $3k stereo. Again, JHMO. | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 483 Registered: 4-2002 |
Hi Everyone, Was avoiding posting on this thread as one of my "hats" are as a high-end home audio reviewer and another "hat" is as an IASCA (car audio) judge (and more hats as a musician, member of the Grammy Awards, yadda yadda yadda). In the end i LOVE MUSIC and desire ways to enhance my enjoyment thereof. Doody is indeed correct when he says various components may be sourced from all over the world to make a final product. This goes for those that CLAIM to be "Made In America" as the circuit boards might be actually made in Korea, China, etc. i will not begin to TRY and cover who actually makes the individual parts (resistors, transistors, capacitors, circuit board, mosfets, digital to analog converter chips, potentiometers, etc) that make up a finalized electronic product as that alone LITERALLY fills an amazingly huge book. So you feel your Ferrari is made in Italy??? Who makes the electronics in it and where are THOSE parts sourced from? How about other components? Do you REALLY feel your prized Ferrari is COMPLETELY "Made In Maranello"? Wake up and smell the espresso! (Basically) In the end what TRULY matters to me is that a system allows me to Enjoy the Music and is reliable. High price alone does not necessarily mean a product is "better" than one costing less. In high-end home audio there is also a system synergy that may be taken into account. The mobile environment has its own unique variables as compared to the home (or concert venue) environment. To make a blanket statement against everything offered from a single country is not only shortsighted and narrow-minded, it might also be considered as being racist/bigot. No matter how many audio products and reproduction technics i have tried, the more knowledge i realize i DO NOT know. It follows along the lines of the saying: "The more we think we know about, the greater the unknown". More of my favorite saying... "If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark" -- St. John of the Cross "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye" -- Antoine De Saint-Exup�ry "All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be" -- Pink Floyd My point being, in great words of George Clinton (P-Funk/Funkadelic) FREE YOUR MIND AND YOUR ASS WILL FOLLOW :-) And as i end virtually all my articles: In the end what REALLY matters is that YOU... Enjoy the Music (Pink Floyd The Wall, song titled "In The Flesh" right now, Steven R. Rochlin http://www.EnjoyTheMusic.com "Fagot.... So ya thought ya Might like to go to the show To feel the warm thrill of confusion That space cadet glow I got some bad news for you, Sunshine Pink isn't well He stayed back at the hotel And they sent us along as a surrogate band We're gonna find out where you fans really stand Are there any queers in the theatre tonight? Get 'em up against the wall Now there's one in the spotlight He don't look right to me Get him up against the wall And that one looks Jewish And that one's a coon Who let all this riffraff into the room? There's one smoking a joint And another with spots If I had my way I'd have all of ya shot" | ||
| John Tennant (Jtennant75)
New member Username: Jtennant75 Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2003 |
I'd recommend the McIntosh amplifiers instead of the Fosgates. You can check them out at www.mcintoshlabs.com. I had a "Mac" system in an Isuzu Trooper (with MB Quart speakers) that was amazing. I also saw a 911 with the Mac amps and the appearance and quality are consistent with your car. McIntosh is American made (but was just purchased a couple weeks ago by the parent company of Denon). I have McIntosh home speakers (the 360s) and love them. If you demo the Mac stuff locally and like it, send me an e-mail and I can tell you where to get it for a discount (McIntosh is very strict about their dealers not selling out of territory). | ||
| adrian low (Audionut)
Junior Member Username: Audionut Post Number: 209 Registered: 4-2003 |
WHart is right. Japan makes some REALLY incredible stuff. There's a magazine called "Stereo Sound" that will have you drooling. The pics are incredible, and you should see the collectors...they remind me of the Ferrari collectors who have some of the rarest stuff! Japan has the capability to design and make some of the very best, though like most things subjective, the buyer chooses what he likes. Unfortunately, there is a very small market in North America for Japanese exotic audio, so most of us never get to see them. | ||
| Crawford White (Crawford)
Junior Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 87 Registered: 3-2003 |
With my 328 and Tubi, a stereo is almost useless. The sound level inside the car is in the low to mid 80's decibels. To turn up the stereo loud enough so that you can hear it is just asking for tinitis. Lane and I did a lot of driving yesterday (were in Huntsville with the film crew from "Full Throttle TV"). When we got home, our ears were both ringing from the noise of the Tubi. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1292 Registered: 12-2001 |
Rob Walker: I am not accusing you of being anti-japanese, but you are clearly missing a whole level of hi-fi that you might be unaware of; not the stuff that's usually shown in salesrooms stacked with dozens of boxes. At the hi-end, there is no "japanese room." In passing, i just happened to find a review, apparently written by another member of this board on one such product. http://www.positive-feedback.com/pfbackissues/0701/rochlin.ongaku.7n1.html Adrian Low, another contributor here, could also provide info on this stratospheric level of musical reproduction where the japanese are very much in "play." Regards. | ||
| Yoshi Ace (Tiger_ace)
Junior Member Username: Tiger_ace Post Number: 67 Registered: 5-2003 |
I read this thread expecting something negative said of Japanese stereo. Then I really couldn't understand what people are talking about as I didn't know many of brands discussed here. (I used to think Bose was Japanese, as a word "Bose" means little boy, and thought that's why their speaker is small...) As some of you pointed out, many products became global nowadays. OEM system enables many items designed & made by the same maker, but sold in various brands under various companies names. I buy things based on design, price, & some degree of spec I want. Isn't that what most people do? Personally I am taking out some of the sound system from 328 I got, as I bought Ferrari because of its design, & the sound of engine roars (this include joy of driving F-car) I don't need 12 CD changer & amps. Basic CD stereo should be fine (of course, I still don't know yet as I never driven this car w/ music playing) as I don't even play stereo when I drive other cars. It's interesting to know something very important for one person may not be important for others. I guess that is what we call the difference in value. | ||
| Robert Walker (Rockn_ferrari)
New member Username: Rockn_ferrari Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2002 |
Didn't intend to start a war here. I'm not anti-Japanese every time I shop for something. I'm just well informed. I wanted a decent 35mm camera and bought a Nikon F4. I'll probably pass it down to grandkids someday... and I don't even have kids yet. It's built like a battleship. Could have been a Canon too. The point is that there's no American made cameras in the same league and that I didn't buy american for the sake of buying American. I even have a Japanese Stratocaster, and was I ever excited to pick one of those up for a tenth the cost of an American standard in the same shape and from the same period. It's in excellent shape and has a great sound... and yes, I bought it because I knew the reputation of Japanese Strats (need a fine tuning knob though if you know anyone who has one). But if you think that audio equipment "developed in, designed in, or born in Japan is superior to anything else", you are just simply not very well informed. Walk into a high-end audio store and ask to see their best stuff, and it's very likely that you will not be directed to the Japanese room. That's down the block in the high-volume, made-for-the-masses electronics superstores. Check it out for yourself. I was in the business for a long time and I know what I'm talking about. Believe it or not people, the good old USA design and makes some of the best stuff out there (so does Europe and a few other non-Asian continents). We do live in a global economy, as most of you pointed that out. There's no pure American computer or Japanese computer. Same with cars. Same with most stuff manufactured by large corporations these days. The point is that I do not worship Japan, nor do I buy Japanese just to buy Japanese. I do still own Nakamichi tape decks and a few Pioneer Elite products... but would I buy Japanese amps or speakers? No. There.s no reason to... especially not for a Ferrari. OK... maybe it's not sacrilegious to put a Japanese head unit in your Ferrari. I personally believe that Enzo would ot be happy, but it's a matter of personal taste. But... if you buy Japanese speakers, you are doing it either out of habit (a bad habit) or for your love of all things Japanese. There is no reason to buy Japanese speakers, other than wanting red drivers to go with your red amp and your red underbody lights on your red Honda. [Incidentally, BostonAcoustics manufactures ALL of their own components, as well as components for numerous other brands]. I posted these shots to help out because the only door enclosures that I saw on this site were on a Fiero... probably a replica or it wouldn't be here. That is sacrilegious. And as most people point out, it's difficult to hear the stereo some of the time� especially with a Tubi exhaust... but there are times on the way home when you feel like giving the engine a break, and not letting the neighbors know how loud your car can be. It's times like that when I let the speakers speak louder than the Tubis. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 652 Registered: 11-2001 |
Most of the best CD head units are made in Japan, I still have the old 7909 Alpine unit and will never sell it even if someone offers me a grand for it because it still sounds better than any head unit out in the market and it's built solid unlike the currently disposable head units, I also have the legendary Clarion head unit like the 7909 which they don't make any more. CD players DO make a difference in sound you can hear like comparing a tape player vs. digital, I do a lot of listening of all types of music especially in acoustic guitars and vocals. Most of the Pioneer speakers are made in China along with other known makes which I cannot mention. I used to build competition sound systems and even had one of my vehicles placed top honors at IASCA finals so I used to be sort of a car audio guru back in the days but I don't have time to get into building such elaborate sound systems but I do have a trained ear for sound at least. | ||
| Scott A. B. Collins (Scott)
Junior Member Username: Scott Post Number: 184 Registered: 6-2001 |
My 360 came with a higher line aftermarket system installed, which I still don't think sounds very good. But I have some general comments about sound systems in our cars. I don't listen to the stereo when I am really out "driving" my car. I think that the aural feedback of engine RPM is an important component of the high performance driving equation. Plus, the sounds Ferrari's make, coupled with the G's they deliver, is just...cool. But, I also sometimes drive my car in stop and go traffic. I take my wife to a store and wait in the parking lot. I sit in my car waiting for others on a drive to get to a meeting place. Etc. At these times it is great to have a nice stereo, and I enjoy it. The price/value equation is a tricky thing to talk about, especially on a Ferrari chat board. I have over 20K of electronics driving 12 year old ADS speakers in my home, and I love the way it sounds. These electronics sound way better than my old mid-priced receiver, and discernably better than another component package that I in home demo'd that cost 12K. Yet I have had the room sonically mapped, and it really isn't that acoustically correct, and it really needs several big bass traps built into the ceiling and side walls to optimize the sound. My point is that even a home system that "knocks your socks off" could be tuned to be even better, or that with almost all audio there are compromises (such as not building a new house just to have the perfectly acoustically neutral room). Its the whole the last 5% of quality/performance/exlusivity costs 50% more. So I salute someone who wants to drop 5K on a sound system in a Ferrari. Is it silly? Probalby. If you do a strict price/value analysis, a $500 system woul probably 80% as good (especially in a moving vehicle). But all of us here have (are would be willing) to spend a big premium over equivalently performing automobiles to get that special tickle that Ferrari's provide. If someone can get that tickle and another one from the sound system within the Ferrari, CHEERS! | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1288 Registered: 12-2001 |
There are levels and there are levels, too. Used to be, japanese stereo equipment was synonomous with "mid-fi" and alot of it made the rounds in the US in the late 60's-early 70's courtesy of the Vietnam experience. At the same time, japanese hobbyists were busy scarfing up vintage Marantz tube amps, etc. There are ridiculous hi-end components coming out of japan, just as there are from virtually every other part of the world, because at the top end, its still pretty much a cottage industry, even if its hi-tech. (And, some of the best hi-fi isn't always hi-tech, but old-tech). At the same time, i'll be damned if i've ever heard a car system that "transported" me, regardless of price; i'm not talking car-show how big are my woofers, but musical. A modest system for the car is probably all that makes sense, particularly for something like a ferrari. I do like music, but honestly find it a distraction when i am concentrating on driving (it also makes me drive faster, which is not necessarily a good thing). | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1266 Registered: 11-2001 |
it's a gobal marketplace. virtually nothing is designed, sourced, assembled, distributed, and sold without involvement from differing countries, cultures, etc. japanese car companies build cars in america. i believe some american companies build cars in japan. german companies build cars in mexico. and on and on and on. gross characterizations are generally incorrect in this regard. if you think "pioneer" speakers stink, that's fine. that doesn't mean "all japanese speakers stink". doody. | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 609 Registered: 1-2002 |
Robert, 328's were shipped from the factory with no head unit but prewired speakers which are of poor quality. Blaupunckt long ago sold out and became Japanese. I am an audiophile and my home system has Austrian speakers and all US front end stuff. I suspect many of the internals are actually made in Japan anyway. Frankly, I don't know why people spend big bucks on audio systems for Ferraris. The constant db level of 75 and greater makes serious listening impossible. This is also true for other cars, but the quieter they are and roomier inside, the more satisfying an auto audio system can be. Still, I'm amazed at how many people spend $500. on a crappy rack system for home amd spend thousands on the car where bang for the buck is very low. I am not trying to be argumentive here. It is a hobby and everyone should do what they want. Clearly you find it satisfying to design and install a system and I respect that. Dave | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 412 Registered: 10-2002 |
So there is nothing wrong with buying Italian, but "sacrilegious" to buy Japanese? | ||
| rich (Dino2400)
Member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 271 Registered: 10-2001 |
I'm not particularly fond of your characterization of things Japanese as "the dark side". I'm not enough of an audio geek to know the brands and where their factories are, and have spent way too much time in front of guitar amps to be able to hear the difference anyway. I have never owned a Japanese car and only my first motorcycle as a kid was Japanese (since then british and italian bikes and german, american and italian cars). But it's quite clear that much that is made in, developed in, designed in, or born in Japan is superior to anything else I've encountered. If that means I've gone to the "dark side" then so be it! | ||
| dave wilson (Dlwilson)
New member Username: Dlwilson Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2003 |
Wow, great system! However, although brands such as Blaupunky/Becker originally were built in germany years ago and Rockford Fosgate, Stillwater Designs(kicker) were originally built in USA, they are all manufactured in asia. If you do find a unit manufactured here the majority of its components will be from asia. I would imagine that if you dismantled your cars engine management unit that there would be many asian parts there also. I wish we could keep more electronics manufacturing here but it is driven out of this country by our expensive labor costs/unions compared to what is available there. | ||
| Robert Walker (Rockn_ferrari)
New member Username: Rockn_ferrari Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2002 |
I like to design stuff about a hundred times before I actually start building something and the audio system for my 328 is no exception. In researching the audio-related links, I was surprised to find that many Ferrari owners opt to install Japanese stereos in a Ferrari. Given the fact that there�s almost no reason to buy Japanese, this seems sacrilegious to me. I'm a middle of the road audiophile. I listen to Magnepan speakers in my home system. The whole house sound system has BostonAcoustics, Parasound and Sonance speakers. All speakers are driven by American-made amps. Any audiophile (or audiophile wannabe) knows that as you go up in quality, the common Japanese brand names that are made for the masses are easily surpassed (i.e., no reason to buy them). In car audio systems, perhaps the least important component is the head unit. As long as it can read CDs and offer some degree of isolation from bumps in the road and a adequate error-correction circuit for less than perfect CDs, then it does it's job. The OEM unit for 328s is made by Blaupunkt. The way that I see it, Blaupunkt makes decent after-market head units and there's no reason to go to the dark side. As for speakers, there's no reason to discuss Japanese. I see that that there a lot of MB Quart fans out these as well as Polk, JBL, J&L, and a few other good brands. I went with BostonAcoustics Pro series components (3-way for the doors, and 2-way for the rear). I'm still designing most of my system, but Phase I is basically done. For now, I'm powering the Boston 3-ways with just the Blaupunkt Miami head-unit... and I'm watching how much I turn it up to that I don't blow the speakers before I install the amps. Phase II will include custom enclosures in the rear of the car (that'll be a trick), and the amp that will power both sets of component speakers. Phase III will be the subwoofer, and another amp to power the subwoofer. I'm going with Rockford-Fosgate amps... not for the same reason as most "tricked out" Honda drivers (i.e., they're cool), but because they were born and bred out of the former David Hafler car amp line. I though that I'd post some shots, even if it means getting slammed from some purists. I just want to emphasize that I am keeping all of the stock parts... so that some future owner can remove my door enclosures (with 4 screws) and replace the original carpet panel. The custom enclosure is covered with Wilton wool... but without the leather trim� for now. PS... Ferrari Rocks... in more ways than one... and it's OK to hear tunes at stop signs.    |