| Author | Message | ||
| Bart Duesler (The_bart)
Junior Member Username: The_bart Post Number: 148 Registered: 1-2003 |
I could care less if my 550 price drops like a rock. With only 3,715 made and I have one, the lower the price the better. Mine will be sold as part of my estate if my kids do not want it. In the late eighties and early ninties, the prices went way up because the Japaneese had more money than sense. Now the prices are more realistic. One buys a toy for the fun it gives you. The better the toy the more it cost. | ||
| thomas daniels (Castex)
New member Username: Castex Post Number: 13 Registered: 6-2003 |
Now I won't say my mother in law's fat, but her school portrait was an aerial photograph. | ||
| V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member Username: Ama328 Post Number: 161 Registered: 11-2002 |
yeah, my 328's gone down in value so much from when i bought it that i'm thinking of rebadging it to a '164'...  | ||
| peter brinzey (Ferraripete)
Junior Member Username: Ferraripete Post Number: 68 Registered: 11-2002 |
arlie, you rock!!! i do not get out here often but i love to read your comments, you are always witty! hey , can you do anything about the snivelling that is going on about the guys that were killed. guess what...no roll cage, high rate of speed, armco...guess what you idiots...you can get killed! can these racer wannabees stop acting so fuggin important? | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1316 Registered: 5-2002 |
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| Tino (Bboxer)
Member Username: Bboxer Post Number: 301 Registered: 8-2001 |
JRV, I would't call my BB unserviced. From the moment I laid my eyes on it in May 1981 when it was a few weeks old to March 2002 when I bid her farewell, It was in my possession, serviced, babied and kept warm all these years with all of its service records). (the sad thing is that it is now sitting at a dealership in Florida, unwanted) . Frank, it was a carburetted BB. I wouldn't call my 22 years experience with a carb. BB unpleasant. Nothing major besides wearables except a clutch, fuel lines, belts, distributor caps and HT harnesses changed. | ||
| peter brinzey (Ferraripete)
Junior Member Username: Ferraripete Post Number: 67 Registered: 11-2002 |
i cherish my boxer and like many, find myself going out to the garage just to see it and smell it after a nice ride. i hope my car will always be owned by such a nut as i! i also find myself wondering with prices being so soft, why ever sell it and what could i replace it with? will these cars ever be 100k cars? could they ever be 30k ? and what really happens to when they cost far more to restore than they are worth? better question...how do the owners ever let them get to that point? | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 443 Registered: 9-2002 |
I have noticed the decline in prices for alot of high tech cars over the years. Look at the resale value of any 90 and newer BMW. You can get a 98 99 745i for around 20k. That car used be almost 100k. Know body wants to deal with the high tech stuff in these cars after the warrenty is up. How many of the 2001 BMW 745i's are going to be sitting in dealer lots after the lease is up,and the warrenty is done? I'll bet they'll have to crush them before they sell them. I look at the last generation of the Corvette. Any do it yourselfer will pass on one of these cars because of the tech involved, and all the "dealer only" repairs. Heck who can properly repair an ABS unit in thier garage with out the use of the proper tools? This is why many of the great technical wonders of now are becomeing the cars to avoid in the car market because of all the whiz bang stuff that people don't want to be bothered repairing. Ferrari is not an exception. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 627 Registered: 4-2002 |
Well, there are some of us young guys who would choose an old classic over a newer, high tech, faster model any day. I was born the year the Daytona prototype came out. I could have gotten a great 355, perhaps even a used 360 coupe. However, to me at least the Daytona is in an whole different league. Same to a 512BBi. Frank Parkers car is just AWESOME. It looks and sounds fantastic. Remember the great line from Gone in 60 Seconds when Nick Cages character is talking to the Ferrari sales guy (paraphrased) "If I get a new 360, then Im just another rich ••••••• poseur... but if I drive up in a 275GTB, well, Im a connoisseur." I'm not at all saying anything against any 360 driver!!! But I do agree about the connoisseur part. I can tell you some segments of the classic car market have been red hot. E-type Jag roadsters are selling like hotcakes. Early 911S Porsches have gone up 30%+ in the last 2 years. Great cars are bringing great money. I dont think 308s are going to be worth $50K anytime soon..... but I do think 512s are undervalued and have room to move up. Same for 365GTC/4. | ||
| Bryan Phillips (Bryanp)
Junior Member Username: Bryanp Post Number: 128 Registered: 8-2002 |
I'm with JRV - low-tech rules. I don't need a computer to work on my car - just some incense, incantations, a synchrometer and my ears for balancing my Webers | ||
| Lou B (Toby91)
Junior Member Username: Toby91 Post Number: 209 Registered: 4-2001 |
You all may be right but comments like "its a short term market correction" and "intrinsic value still intact" sounds like what most of us were saying in '01 when the stock market turned south. My view is don't worry about market value, enjoy, drive the hell out of them before your heirs do. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1787 Registered: 11-2002 |
Tom hit upon one of the real issues. High Tech this & High Tech that sounds cool from the mouth of the used car saleman, but repairing High Tech is HIGH BUCK. Old cars were fine and repairable with "low tech". And a heck of a lot of fun to own and drive. Along with the pride of knowing your old car is beautiful, serviced and perfect thru diligence, perserverance and hard work. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1786 Registered: 11-2002 |
Greg, old collector car prices have bottomed and are moving up. Yes there are guys like Reggie Jackson still asking stupid money and being turned down. But there is a lot of interest building to secure a "true collectable" before prices start really moving up and sellers become more secure saying no to low ball numbers. The fear is deminishing. I know what the buzz is...my phone rings just fine. | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 441 Registered: 9-2002 |
I think once all the 360's are out and that car is replaced with a new model...these cars will become cheap to buy,expensive to maintain. The 360 has too much tech in it. I think this will lead to a big drop in price because of the cost to fix anything on this car with no warrenty. Just look at the prices of the 550,456 etc, not to many people want to buy a car like that with no warrenty. 308/328 prices I think will not get any lower. The deamand for good clean 308/328's wiil always be there. | ||
| Greg (Greg512tr)
Junior Member Username: Greg512tr Post Number: 139 Registered: 2-2002 |
JRV wrote"On the inside of the game nothing has changed, it's just a different part of the cycle" By this do you mean collector car market is at a low point and now is the time to buy? The "insiders" have seen the cycle before? | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1784 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>find myself not wanting to buy a recent ferrari unless i can steal it<< The newest Boxer is 19 yrs old and made in finite numbers. 308, 348's and especially 355's and TR's were made in huge numbers in comparison, not to mention the view points of modern buyers is so so different than the old days. Now people want free lunch because they saw another get free lunch. Older cars require responsibility which leaves all the good time charlie, fast buck, easy money flippers out of the game. On the inside of the game nothing has changed, it's just a different part of the cycle, on the outside of the game marketing to the masses has created a mind set that finds being responsible distasteful. Bling Bling! | ||
| peter brinzey (Ferraripete)
Junior Member Username: Ferraripete Post Number: 66 Registered: 11-2002 |
is unemployment down in your neck of the woods...i suspect not. looking at the stock market even quarterly is not a good indicater as there are those that really know, are still hard pressed to find rational valuations. getting back to the Ferrari issue. I having decent earning power find myself not wanting to buy a recent ferrari unless i can steal it. i would otherwise be concerned that my ability to sell it well would be tough as it really seems the market is so soft. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1783 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>>For the same money, you could be tooling in a slick Mercedes two seater, a noble aston, <<< With a Warruntee!!!!! Yes we dwell in a finite corner of the market place. ;-) | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1305 Registered: 12-2001 |
Add to that, the fact that enthusiasts coming up to purchasing power now were not smitten, as some of us were, with cars like the Daytona. Its pre-history to them, if they know the car at all. And, for that occasional ferrari driver who may, for the first time, want to add one to his/her stable, they will probably think long and hard about buying a 30 year old car: they may be committed, but not that committed. You really have to love the cars for what they represent, and the whole gestalt of the noise, shape, funky italian interior styling thing, to lay down for one of these. For the same money, you could be tooling in a slick Mercedes two seater, a noble aston, or a pretty mint 355 convertible. Granted, i would have the daytona over all of those (well, those 355 spiders are looking pretty good after 2 weeks of sans ferrari), but then again, i have the sickness, as most of us on this board do.Postscript: i realize you were addressing "post" daytona, but i think the same reasoning might apply on a slightly lower eco-scale; to wit, testarossa with some serious maintenance costs, vs. say, an M3 convertible? 308 or WRX STi/Lancer Evo? And, given the increases in performance over the years, the ferrari has more competition in these price ranges. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1782 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>Incidentally, who really believes that the economy is really on the mend? We are optimistic but not stupid! << Maybe in your neck of the woods things still look bleak.....but other parts of the country are definately on the mend. | ||
| peter brinzey (Ferraripete)
Junior Member Username: Ferraripete Post Number: 65 Registered: 11-2002 |
I think the issues of the economy are the primary driver to the deflation of the "post Daytona" Ferrari market. Add to that the fact that, Ferrari is no longer a "boutique", they now pump out cars at alarming rates...this cannot help either. I think the discriminating Ferrari buyer will have a ballance in tact enough such that he/she can indulge in buying something collectable and rare. So...who is going to help preserve the value of the mid engined cars that that it seems are (only an observation...nothing to back this) bought by younger folks that look at Ferraris as status symbols...still just a car?! Incidentally, who really believes that the economy is really on the mend? We are optimistic but not stupid! | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2563 Registered: 9-2001 |
Tino, yours was a BBi correct ? I note the CPI and other market reports show the 365GT4BB, BB512 and BB512i all slightly up in price . I know I had rather have a BBi myself, but those carburated cars sure sound good. In any event, it takes a little longer to sell a Boxer than a 308 or 355. Its not old enough to attract the old timers yet but its too old to attract the young newer car buyers. A non-serviced BB512i did recently sell at FOA for low $80s . | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1780 Registered: 11-2002 |
Tino, If you got all the money on a non serviced car good for you. Lucky for you the buyers didn't realize that that "most" desirable boxers by buyers are the 83-84 FI cars ...and the reason is use & maintanace issues...with the used car sales people/brokers/talking heads dissin early FI cars and carbed cars. So for an 81 $75K "is all the money and then some". But the tide will turn, do you think the US econom y being in the shitter and the US going to war was supposed to elivate old car prices? I'm on the inside of this car game looking out. | ||
| John Ashburne (Jashburne)
New member Username: Jashburne Post Number: 32 Registered: 9-2002 |
Good for buyers, which we all are, aren't we? Buy that dream car that used to be unaffordable! John Ashburne 1983 400i 5 speed, silver/black | ||
| Tino (Bboxer)
Member Username: Bboxer Post Number: 300 Registered: 8-2001 |
I am afraid, not so, JRV. My 81 BB sold for $70K one year ago (fair price as I had been the only owner for 22 years); it subsequently was driven 500 miles,had a $9K service including belts and has been sitting at a dealership in Florida for a few months with no offers at $75K. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2562 Registered: 9-2001 |
JRV is correct. On Saturday I saw a Boxer that was in very poor shape . The car's odometer showed a little over 3k miles. But, from the car's condition it was obvious that the car had more like 50k miles or more. It is a car like that that skews the numbers for the better than average or concours examples out there. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1779 Registered: 11-2002 |
IMO from watching the market Boxer prices have moved up considerably. 2 yrs ago they were trading hands in the 60's-70's and now they're in the mid 70's to 80's. and with the long term economic outlook turning up I think you'll see a move even higher for the best cars. What one can't see from the outside looking in is what type cars (condition) sell for the low numbers. I see both sides of the coin and rough to fair cars are the ones that sell at so called bargain prices, while the nicest cars remain firm. And you certianly can't judge the most desirable of models values by the huge offering of very poor condition 308's, TR's, 348's that have flooded the market. Not to mention that very very few buyers get info from mechanics but rather from wholesalers, brokers and used car salesmen that traffic in cheap cars to make their spread. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1303 Registered: 12-2001 |
The boxer prices were depressed several years ago when i bought one, and they have not gone up. I wouldn't worry about the market value of the car; its fairly rare, and a great drive. Enjoy it. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2556 Registered: 9-2001 |
I believe it is a short term market correction. Once the economy gets back up to speed the rarer cars such as the BB and BBis will hopefully stabilize or maybe appreciate a little. The higher volume cars will likely continue to depreciate . | ||
| peter brinzey (Ferraripete)
Junior Member Username: Ferraripete Post Number: 64 Registered: 11-2002 |
Folks, I have been noticing that prices on ferraris post Daytona have been going south...and considerably. There seems to be a huge spread of what is being asked and what is the sale price. The 360,355,328,308,all tr's,and bb and bbi's. What gives. As a boxer owner, I am sad to see my cars value dimminishing (intrinsic value still in tact). |