| Author | Message | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1403 Registered: 10-2002 |
Don, good question and if you'd go into any of the racer sim forums you'd get answers ad nauseam. So here my $ 0.02: About once a year I have changed them for something better and newer etc. Finally I caved in and got the MS Sidewinder FF wheel. Why? Couple of reasons: Easiest to install if you use MS OS like XP. All functions instantly supported. Another good reason: Normally wheels and/or pedals only last one season with my driving and then need to get replaced. The real 'bit_ch' about replacing them is that new wheels normally come at slightly different angles for seating etc so if you have a static setup like I do, you need to change everything. MS lacks new ideas  , their wheels and pedals have the same standard form for years... I believe there is now even a Momo version available. That looks a lot better. But in all honesty I have to admit: As cool as my car looks, that is really only for show. Once you are immerged in the game, you won't notice anymore. So a fancy wheel only looks good while you're not playing. Just as important as the wheel and pedals however is a solid stand. My 'car' has an internal steel frame structure to support them. That structure you can buy separately (and build your car around it). Forgot the name, but remind me next time we meet and I'll dig up the name and address. | ||
| Don Norton (Litig8r)
Junior Member Username: Litig8r Post Number: 181 Registered: 6-2001 |
What's the best wheel and pedal setup for the PC? I've been meaning to get one. Not too expensive though. MS Sidewinder FF? | ||
| James Angle (Jimangle)
New member Username: Jimangle Post Number: 47 Registered: 9-2002 |
Yes you can. Mainly on how you set up for a turn. Learn how to play Moto Gp (motorcycle game). It's all about setting entry and exit points. The only thing unrealistic about computer games is that you really don't have any throttle control. It's either, full throttle, or no throttle. | ||
| Ken A (Zff)
Junior Member Username: Zff Post Number: 88 Registered: 12-2002 |
Using some scrap plywood, I built a box to mount my PS2's steering wheel and pedals, then used an old broken office chair.... It was only a few minutes of work, but it made playing GT3 100x more fun.   Certainly nothing like what Andreas has got, but still entertaining. | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 808 Registered: 4-2002 |
In shear amazement I agree with all three of Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12) PSk (Psk) Jon P. Kofod (95f355c) | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 734 Registered: 8-2001 |
I have played them all. I own a PS1, PS2, Sega, and X-Box console. The only games I ever buy are "racing sims". With the exception of a few "street racing" games (like some of the tracks in GT3 A spec and Gotham Racing) the rest are all dedicated race games on race tracks such as EA Sport F1, WRC games, F355 Challenge, all the NASCAR games, Indy games, and sports car games. Most of you have already touched on what can never be replicated in a sim. Fear, danger, excitement/adrenaline rush, the Red Mist, etc.... In my opinion the only things that you will learn are the following: 1) Very good hand eye coordination 2) Learning the various corners of the tracks 3) Learning to mulitask.....i.e. doing a bunch of stuff at one time while at high game speed 4) AND LAST learning setup options and how they effect a car You may also learn understeer and oversteer in a game simulation mode but you will never be able to apply this to the real world of a track. What's missing more than anything else is the seat of the pants feel. That more than anything tells you what is going on with the car. The steering wheel is only one of many things in the car that gives you feedback. No sim can give you real lock up feel or brake fade, nor can you feel the rear tires slipping. The other thing that is still lacking is going off line in a computer sim. I have yet to find a sim that simulates loss of traction, momentum, and grip when you take a corner wrong. All in all I think SETUP and TRACK LAYOUT are the only two things that one can get out of a sim. Just my 2 cents worth. Regards, Jon P. Kofod 1995 F355 Challenge #23 FLATOUT RACING Website: http://neverlift.homestead.com/flatout.html | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 580 Registered: 11-2002 |
No IMO. I have Grand Prix Legends and many others and they are fantastic games. I also have a force feedback steering wheel. The only thing a game can help you with is learning the track ... which is ALL the race drivers us it for. The thing that is missing is DANGER!!! and FEAR, and this is why they do not make you a better driver but a WORSE one. I worry about the young kids getting their driving license after playing those games for years. They think they will be able to drift through a corner at insane speeds and ye ha what a laugh. Performance driving is all about feel. Most of your input comes from your arse, ie. the seat of the pants stuff. The rest comes through the steering wheel and via sight. Sound has a little to do with it but not much. Thus the games are not giving you the necessary sensory load to learn the art of performance driving. Yep you can get good at the game ... as I have on GP Legends (won at Silverstone ), etc. but I have driven cars BEFORE I played these games. I watch my children play these games and they go into corners with the throttle pinned and don't understand understeer, etc. ... and thus how could they because you can hardly feel it on the steering wheel. Just my opinion, but kids have enough trouble surviving the early years of driving without pumping them up and saying that they can learn on a computer game ... where realitiy is far removed. Pete | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2677 Registered: 2-2001 |
Carlos Montoya swears by video games, he told Car and Driver that before racing at a new track he checks out some video games so he knows the track before he gets there | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1400 Registered: 10-2002 |
Don't quite agree with you Mitch. Modern sim games give you a lot of feedback, it just comes differently to you: If you have a force feedback steering wheel it will tell you whether you understeer or oversteer. Listening to the sound you can tell what your tires are doing. Over time you learn to look at the picture and you know what the 'right' picture should look like. That way your brain starts to recognize early signs of under or oversteer (as in the real world). I do feel the brakes. Yes they always feel the same mechanically, but my brain gets instant feedback from the pictures whether there is any brake fading, tire degrading, lighter weight of the car due to consumed fuel. The clues are all out there, you just have to learn them. That's why it took me a couple years to get to the level I'm at right now. Not that this is exactly like real life where you feel the G forces, but you can 'learn' them. Limits of thrust, power overrun, wrong gear even power oversteer are all out there. I think the main difference of the people on this forum who say 'nay' versus 'yeah' is due to what games/sims they have seen so far. So any doubters are greatly invited to my home and take a lap around a GP track. I'll be happy to show them, that the 'games' don't really deserve that name anymore. Last but not least: There are a lot of better sims out there than mine. Real pros combine them with hydraulics (see my post about the Nascar sim), but you could even do that for home use, but I couldn't go that far for practical reasons (not technological or financial). It is possible. After all think about the F1 sims the real teams use: They're nothing more than cockpits on 7 post hydraulic rigs fed by computer software. It is possible and for far less than 45 mio. | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 805 Registered: 4-2002 |
It would take a 5-axis motion simulator to advance you as far as two drivers education track days. You need to be able to feel the brakes: 1.0 Gs You need to be able to feel the tires.: 1.0 Gs You need to be able to feel the gas...: 0.5 Gs You need to be able to see that the car has taken a different attitude towards the turn than the arc that the car is traveling. You need to be able to to feel the limit of traction as thrust is applied. You need to feel the lack of power on overrun You need to be able to feel the effect of the wrong gears (sound, and push). Basic cost for a simulator that accurately represents these forces in a continuous manner: $15million. In order to simulate continuous operation at more than 1.0 Gs, you need additional simulator mechanics--like the 4 G F16 simulator at Wright Patterson AFB; cost $45M+ The skills you can learn from a simulator at home is: lines through turns. But you can do this in you car at road-legal speeds anyway. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1398 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hubert, there is actually an interesting arcade sim in the States for NASCAR racing. You sit in a slightly smaller, but fairly realistic 'car', which is on hydraulics. Three huge screens are in front of you, some tremendous sound is behind your ears and all 'cars' are linked together for a real race. This thing is darn realistic and shakes the living daylights out of you if you hit the wall etc. Forgot the name of it, but they have it at some of the big malls (like Schaumburg in Chicagoland). Only disadvantage: It is NASCAR... | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1397 Registered: 10-2002 |
Skip Barber racing school was developing a sim for their open wheel (Formula Ford like) cars. However the project fell farther and farther behind in development and so eventually they gave up on it. But it wasn't that they weren't trying. So there must be some benefit to it. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 953 Registered: 1-2002 |
Andreas- on the f335c arcade game you can't change setups, adjust wings/pressures, etc. you're stuck w/ whatever pseudo-setup the games programmed with, and, it's beyond terrible. Unless of course you enjoy driving sideways, then it's the setup for you. Video games and sims are cool, and I'd really like to play one that ragged on you as much as a real car does, at the track, but as of this writing, the only fix I get is in my seat, at the track. hubert. | ||
| matt green (Mattg)
New member Username: Mattg Post Number: 36 Registered: 4-2003 |
If the track and car physics are accurately modeled.... absolutely yes | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Intermediate Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 1345 Registered: 12-2002 |
I dont think it will give you skills as a good driver --that can only come from experience in the real world with real traffic, and a feel for the real cars. However, it can surely help improve reflexes which aid significantly in driving. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1396 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hubert, I don't know about the arcade version of 355Challenge, but the Dreamcast version allowed you to change the setup of the car. If nothing else I have learned how terribly important a good setup is. At least on GP4. It makes the difference of many seconds per lap and basically driving a truck or a race car. Also you learn all the nuances of a wet setup vs a dry one. Also today's top games use GPS data for accurate track representation. And some fans even update the ads after a real GP. That doesn't teach you anything obviously, but adds to the ambiance. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 952 Registered: 1-2002 |
I used GT3 sparingly to help me out before I went to laguna seca for a lapping session; I get there only to find that the track is much wider, bigger than portraied, and has some nuances not transposed onto the electronic version. Doh! However, I will say that from a general perspective - I did about 100 e-laps- I found that, yes, it did aid in getting a mental picture of the track, whilst without all the topographical data; i.e., the rainey curve in the game was pretty close to the real life feeling, but didn't transpose the cavity at T5 on apex, and just how violent the burms are on the corkscrew. I'd use it for getting an idea for what to expect, but only being there gives you a true indication. Also, about the f335c arcade game --the sim that you sit in and play-- that is not realistic, unless of course; real 355c's understeer like pigs, are twicthy at the limit, understeer some more, and have no high speed stability. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1395 Registered: 10-2002 |
One more cool thing about sims: You get to drive on tracks you couldn't otherwise. Point in case: Fiorano (ok, ok, if you're rich enough, you can take an official F driving instruction there) The Fiorano track was part of the 355 Challenge game. Also I wrote a version of it for Grand Prix 3 (the predecessor to GP4). | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 778 Registered: 9-2002 |
Did anyone read the article (CAR?) a year or two ago where two developers of Gran Turismo were invited to drive at Spa? Thought they knew the course well, stuffed the car. Think it was a WRX or Evo too. --Dan | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 709 Registered: 11-2001 |
The original Atari "Hard Drivin'" game ( http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=H&game_id=8072 ) was a great simulator. You could actually teach someone how to drive a stick using this game. While nothing replicates the real thing, sims (especially full-motion immersive ones) can teach you better driving skills. | ||
| David J. Smith (Darkhorse512)
Junior Member Username: Darkhorse512 Post Number: 225 Registered: 10-2002 |
"Will a sim computer game make you a better driver?" Everyone may be different but I know that arcade games have made me 10 times the driver I am today. 1993's Sega "VR virtua racing", 1994's NAMCO "ACE Driver" and Sega's INDY 500. ACE Driver in particular was a Champcar inspired game with seats that had speakers around your head and butt. They would swivle left and right with steering input and vibrate heavily when you were in another car's slipstream. The steering would kick back in a way where you could feel your inside tire going up and over the curbing at a corner's apex. The brakes were sensitive enough to tip you into a spin if not applied in a straight line at the end of the long straights. The throttle was very sensitive and only needed 2 inches of travel from idle to full. It was a pretty rare game I've only seen and played one model. I've heard they are about $45K (A good 328/ A less than average. 348?) for the side by side 2 seat version. What it didn't teach me about real driving was hand cramping, the physical strain of G-loads, sweating, how a car's handling will change after being pushed for several laps, mentally overcoming the fear of real injury and real liability. But I did learn the cornering sequence and how to blend them together. | ||
| James P. Smith (Tigermilk)
Junior Member Username: Tigermilk Post Number: 174 Registered: 7-2001 |
The pros to racing games include - course visualization - reflex training - awareness on the track - learning about lines through turns - braking zones Sure it's not the real deal, but you can learn quite a bit from them. | ||
| Don Norton (Litig8r)
Junior Member Username: Litig8r Post Number: 179 Registered: 6-2001 |
That's a hoot Andreas! | ||
| chris cummings (Entelechy)
Member Username: Entelechy Post Number: 321 Registered: 5-2001 |
Andreas - that is amazing! Bravo! | ||
| DGS (Dgs)
Junior Member Username: Dgs Post Number: 100 Registered: 5-2003 |
Just to get technical: A "flight sim" in FAA terms, must include full 3-axis motion, and a realistic cockpit environment. Anything that doesn't jump around on gimbals is a "Cockpit Procedure Trainer" (CPT). CPTs are useful for practicing instrument navigation (where you can't see anything out the windows), and often for practicing fault recognition - where the instructor will, for example, slowly spin down your gyro instruments to see how far the student will "chase the needles" before recognizing the failure. CPTs are pretty useless for teaching visual landings. Computer driving sims probably have the same type of limits. Good for some details -- such as learning the track, and bad for others. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 1022 Registered: 10-2001 |
I'll never make it to F1...but that sim DOES look like a LOT of fun! And I can see I underestimated the complexity of the software...and if you want to replicate the adrenaline, just race a friend and bet BIG bucks on it. That'll get the fear factor working IF you bet enough money! LOL | ||
| Raleigh Smith (288gto)
Junior Member Username: 288gto Post Number: 84 Registered: 10-2002 |
I am not saying that a game makes up for real life. It gives you an idea if the game can truely simulate a car race. I also said that the arcade 355 game was good, but nothing beats seat time. A game cannot give you the feel that you need to know how to drive at speed, but it can teach you some thing about braking and accelerating without the possible monetary or life loss factor. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1394 Registered: 10-2002 |
I built it over the years. This is meanwhile version 5. The sidepods contain the computer and the sound system. Obviously pedals and steering wheel are where they're supposed to be. Not on the picture is the overhead LCD projector and the silver screen which is lowered in front of the car for driving. Also not visible is the fan to the side. I went through several iterations of programmes, seats, steering wheels, pedals etc to find the right stuff. This now is pretty good and sturdy. Normally the car needs a complete overhaul at the end of the season. Now that I have a real Ferrari I have to be more precise when talking to my friends about driving the Ferrari. PS: Can you tell, that my heart was always more on the #4 than #3 car... | ||
| JT (Mightymagician)
Junior Member Username: Mightymagician Post Number: 99 Registered: 11-2002 |
andreas! man that thing is serious. did you build it or buy it? | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1393 Registered: 10-2002 |
  To put the money where my mouth is, here a couple shots of my racing sim. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1392 Registered: 10-2002 |
DES you're right about the fear for limb, life and car. That is not there. But trust me, the adrenaline gets going. If you make it meaningful enough. Especially in online racing against other human drivers. I'm driving for the championship (haha) and I have already developed a total fear for my points culture. So I'm willing to let go of a fight, if I can safely drive home some points. I can work myself into a real sweat. Trust me. Flight sims can be very realistic. Obviously real pilots train in hydraulic sims. Skip the hydraulics and you get towards a home based sim. Just recently a copy of the Smithsonian aviation mag had an article about some people's home built flight sims. You would be surprised how realistic these things become. But flying is less of a seat of the pants thing (at least non dog fight flying) and more technical/procedural than racing. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 4832 Registered: 8-2002 |
Raliegh, i don't think there's a video game out there, no matter how real-looking, that can simulate driving the way it should be - especially for pre-drive pointers...! i think the only way to go is to get in the car and practice... Can't afford racing school...? No sweat, grab your keys and get all the practice you need in some DESerted parking lot - say the Jones Beach parking lot, late at night... No one's there, the lot is HUGE and you've got all the time and space you need to practice some things... Like others mentioned, when you lose it in a video game, just hit reset and try again; this cannot, however, be applied to real life... Adrenaline is pumping a lot more when you're in a real car, on a real road, doing real things that are heavily garnished with possibilities and circumstances more real than a video game... i believe this same logic can be applied to flight simulators; after excelling at the most advanced flight simulation game, would you really be confident/willing/able to try it in a real plane...? Crawford's question definitely wasn't a stupid one; in fact, i think it cultivated some dialogue that can and will be quite useful for many... but i still stand by my answer, 100%. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1391 Registered: 10-2002 |
- A good sim would also needs a cramped seat, check - realistic (meaning tiny) pedal box check - and a really good space heater check (well it gets hot in that box anyway) - A fine oil mist spritzer for your helmet or windshield is needed too. Oh, and a hmm, not yet... - big fan to blow the air past you... check - Then the tech stuff like tire wear and air pressure changing, fuel load changing handling, track rubber changing, the thrill of speed and dicing affecting your reflexes....so many variables that really can't be done right. check, at least in GP4 they're all there GP4 has tire wear, throws in technical gremlins, car handling changes with fuel consumption. On average you get faster as your weight goes down, but that is offset by fading breaks and more importantly by fading rubber. You have to be constantly adjusting for that. It is a challenge when played without the driving aids. | ||
| Mark Langfield (Ferrari_co_uk)
New member Username: Ferrari_co_uk Post Number: 41 Registered: 4-2003 |
I have to agree with DES, computer games wont teach you anything and certainly wont hone any skills that would be beneficial. The only way to learn is to get out there and have a go and practice! The only benefit I believe is that you can get an idea about the layout of a track if you have never been there before. Just my 2 cents worth! | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 1021 Registered: 10-2001 |
A good sim would also needs a cramped seat, realistic (meaning tiny) pedal box, and a really good space heater. A fine oil mist spritzer for your helmet or windshield is needed too. Oh, and a big fan to blow the air past you... Then the tech stuff like tire wear and air pressure changing, fuel load changing handling, track rubber changing, the thrill of speed and dicing affecting your reflexes....so many variables that really can't be done right. I just don't see how any sim is any good except for Andreas said: to learn the track. | ||
| JT (Mightymagician)
Junior Member Username: Mightymagician Post Number: 97 Registered: 11-2002 |
i agree with andreas, you can learn alot on the tech side, but a sim is not real and only true racing experience can keep you out of harm when your car starts to lose it, your adrenaline level goes through the roof, and you need a split second reaction. but dang they are alot fun though. whats a good one for online racing? | ||
| Raleigh Smith (288gto)
Junior Member Username: 288gto Post Number: 83 Registered: 10-2002 |
DES, are you saying that learning at least the philosphy of breaking before a corner, not standing on the gas from a dead stop and dumping the cluth, slow in fast out, reading lines on the track, and many other things are better learned on the track next to you? I feel that everyone should have to go to racing school if you want to drive a high performance car, period. That's not going to happen though, so a little sim before actually taking a car to a race track can't hurt. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1390 Registered: 10-2002 |
One more note about 355Challenge: I read an interview with the designer and one of his key points for the arcade version was splitting the action onto three screens. That way you not only have peripheral vision, but also the view out front is a lot more realistic: Normally in arcade games the designers have to give you a wide angle view to pack it all in, which is of course now how human eyes see (we have about a 50mm SLR lens eye, not wide angle). That has a big impact: With a wide angle view your depth perspective is biased and things actually happen too fast for you as compared to a regular perspective. An important fact, when it comes to hitting an apex spot on. So with three screens F355Challenge was more realistic. GP4 btw lets you adjust the viewing angle so you can sortof filter the distortion out. The stereo sourround sound gives you the peripheral 'vision'. You learn to hear where your opponents are around you. PS: It goes without saying, that any sim should use Force feedback to make up for the lack of seat of the pants feeling. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 4831 Registered: 8-2002 |
No. No, no, no. No. | ||
| Raleigh Smith (288gto)
Junior Member Username: 288gto Post Number: 82 Registered: 10-2002 |
The guy that developed the game for SEGA is a huge Ferrari fan and spent time behind the wheel of a 355 to make sure his game wasn't just another "driving game". You can buy the arcade version for your home or office. New it is $27K and used it is $14k. That's right $27,000! Each screen has it's own processor for the highest quality in graphics. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1389 Registered: 10-2002 |
Oh and one more thing: A really good sim teaches you the track. One reason why newbies in F1 often practice on their playstations. When I watch a GP on TV I normally instantly know where on the track the shot is from because by playing GP4 you just memorize it all. You also get a deeper appreciation for the real drivers and their efforts and skill. Sheesh, one more thing (can you tell you hit a nerve with me?): The Dreamcast 355Challenge sim (or better yet its arcade bigger brother) were excellent sims. I always wished they had come out with a PC version. But technically they were allegedly very close to the real deal in the car's characteristics. I once even wrote a lengthy letter about it to Forza, but they never published it. Oh well... | ||
| Raleigh Smith (288gto)
Junior Member Username: 288gto Post Number: 81 Registered: 10-2002 |
It depends if you have any experience at all. When Gran Tourismo 3 came out I noticed that the cars were pretty accurate. I have driven a good number of those cars and they handle pretty close to how they play on the game. The Ferrari 355 Challenge game on my PS2 doesn't let you do anything that most video games allow. Meaning that you can't mash the throttle and go because you will spin your tires. If you hit the grass with the tire that gets power you will slow down and lose traction. The arcade wersion of the 355 game is even more realistic. The steering wheel feedback is pretty good and the brake feel isn't bad. When it is all said and done nothing beats real life experience. The video games just allow you to not have major repair bills when you fly into a wall at 85 mph. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 1020 Registered: 10-2001 |
Didn't do Lynn St. James a lot of good...at least as far as becoming world class. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1388 Registered: 10-2002 |
Of course there are a thousand reasons against, that, but IMHO there is a slight chance to make you a *LITTLE* bit of a better driver. From my own sim I have learned to feather the throttle and feed in the power a lot nicer. Also a good racing sim normally gives you a lot of options towards setup, so your technical understanding will improve. But a driving sim doesn't teach you as many thing as e.g. a flight sim, where you can learn a huge percentage of the real deal. I think a driving sim is mostly good for fun. On a side note: Grand Prix 4 is IMHO the best ever racing sim today. Grand Prix Legends was just as good, but not supported under XP. | ||
| Crawford White (Crawford)
Junior Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 100 Registered: 3-2003 |
Would a good quality PC race game (w/ wheel and pedals) hone ANY skills that would be beneficial when driving a real car on a real track. Maybe it's a stupid question, but... |