| Author | Message | ||
| Richard L. Diasio (Putpark)
New member Username: Putpark Post Number: 12 Registered: 7-2001 |
The Putnam Park website is HTTP:/www.putnampark.com | ||
| rossa4sale (Rossa4sale)
New member Username: Rossa4sale Post Number: 12 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jason- Keep the Viper. I just sold me TR because it had very little power off the line and other than "look/ego" appeal, was not that fun to drive. It cost me about $10K in repairs over 2.5 years and was a major headache. The 348 is actually slower than the TR and has many more issues than the TR also. Viper will have less problems and more fun to drive, since it has much more torque and power you can truly feel. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 810 Registered: 9-2001 |
The TR was still Ferrari's flagship of the 1980s as the F40 was not considered a "production" car. If you include non-production cars, the the Ferrrai F1 car would be the flagship of the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s,1990s and 2000s . | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 801 Registered: 6-2001 |
Richard, is there a webstie with a schedual of events? I'd be up for taking a road trip after ap tests because i dont really have to go to school anymore. | ||
| Richard L. Diasio (Putpark)
New member Username: Putpark Post Number: 11 Registered: 7-2001 |
Tim, Putnam Park Road Course is a 1.8 mile circuit located about 40 miles west of Indianapolis. An SCCA license is not required. Our website at putnampark.com shows the schedule and all car clubs except Corvette and Viper allow any marque to drive in their events. The track is very safe with plenty of runoff in the turns and FIA gravel traps at the end of all long straights. I designed the track in 1990 and supervised construction in 1991. We repave every five years so the surface is always smooth. During the week pro teams use the track for testing. We've had many Challenge teams test with us over the years. If you get the chance you should try it out. It is definetly a horsepower track with big sweeping turns. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 783 Registered: 6-2001 |
Richard, where is putnam park and do u need an scca license to drive on it? | ||
| RM Valher (Rmv)
New member Username: Rmv Post Number: 21 Registered: 4-2002 |
I would agree; the F40 was the only exception that I am aware of to the correct assertion that the flagship Ferrari is a 12 cylinder. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 176 Registered: 3-2002 |
generally a flat 12 is ferrari's flagship car, but because of what the f40 was it was ferrari's flagship of the late 80's..thats the only exception I know of | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
New member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2002 |
I would agree, but I do see the point Willis is making. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 427 Registered: 2-2001 |
I would have to say that at one time the F40 was the Ferrari flagship, V8 or not. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 640 Registered: 8-2001 |
F40 was a special limited edition car conceived during the turbo era. Ferrari's flagship (meaning top-of-the-line) production cars have alway been the V12 and flat-12 cars. The V8s are entry level Ferraris. Entry level doesn't mean lacking in performance or low quality. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 695 Registered: 12-2001 |
Flagship meaning most recognizeable. Most will know a 308 over a 512 any day. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
New member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2002 |
F40? I thought that was *at one time* the flagship car? | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 803 Registered: 9-2001 |
The 80s Ferrari flagship was first the 365/512BB and then the TR. The 3 series Dino was the entry level car. A V8 has never been Ferrari's flagship car. And never will be. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 162 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ken you hit in right on the money..ive been saying this to my friends for years and no one believes me..im glad someone else thinks this way!  | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 693 Registered: 12-2001 |
I agree that the 80's Ferrari is the 308 too. Not that the TR isn't an 80's Ferrari but the Flagship is the 308 IMO. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 692 Registered: 12-2001 |
I think that this is not a hard decision to make. Life is about experiences and living. I would not think twice about a Ferrari. I am not a fan of the Vipers styling. You guys hit it right on it looks very cartoonish and it doesn't sound, smell, feel, act like a Ferrari which is what I enjoy. I think after you own a Ferrari you never go back. From the pics of most Vipers the fit, construction doesn't appear very good. If you have to ask them maybe don't buy. For me it was no question. | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 240 Registered: 3-2001 |
It is all just a matter of opinion. To me the 80's Ferrari is the 308. Magnum PI, all of the movies they were in Cannonball Run etc. So, see difference of opinion. My point is that from what I read you know how the cars perform, look, etc. now you just need to make a logical decision. | ||
| Russ Moore (Rem9)
Junior Member Username: Rem9 Post Number: 64 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jason, I have both a TR and a 328GTS. I think the 328 is a great ride and you might be surprized by the power it has. Certainly not up to a TR or 512 but it is pretty nimble. I understand your comment on the TR, but I have to admit not spending much time looking at the interior while it is being driven. The lines of the body though....... nice! Certainly many folks who are "car-guys" and really want the turn key approach are often buying a newer production model. I have suggested to many a motor head in the past they go buy a Miata instead of a finicky old MG or Triumph not to mention an E-Type or Healey. It all comes down to what presses your buttons. Buy the car to please yourself, not what someone else thinks or expresses. Life is too short to not enjoy it. Best regards Russ | ||
| Jason (Smokinv10)
New member Username: Smokinv10 Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2002 |
Thanks everyone for your responses. Most of the comments everyone has posted have been running through my head since I started considering this proposition. I believe most of us like 0-60 sprints. Its part of the "car guy" thing. However, the other part of me appreciates refinement, the heritage, breeding, and the visceral sound of a finely tuned flat 12. If I was prepared to spend $120K ish for a 512tr, I would probably go the whole distance and get a used 360. (ive seen them going for about $140K lately). The 348 was a big compromise on power for me. I drove a 348 spider a couple months back, I didnt push it, but felt that it was "feeble" compared to the viper. I dont really want to compromise so much that i find myself selling this car in a couple of months. That leaves me the testarossa. What gets me about the Testarossa, is its beutiful body and that flat 12. I do have to say that the interior leaves a lot to be desired. The Viper with the Connolly leather package has a much nicer interior than the testarossa. That may be 15 years of technology to account for that. The ferrari just in my mind (growing up watching the TR as the ultimate car in the 80's) epitomizes much of ferrari. Although the 308's and 328's are pretty (dont look as 80's as a TR) I dont think the power could make me happy. So can I give up the power, its addictive, I dont know. DO I like the ferrari you bet ya. Do i like the Viper? Yes, very much so,..Im "snake bitten". Can I keep both? Hmmmm, I wish, but I dont want to take out a loan on a toy. So thats where I am, still thinking..thinking...contemplating.... | ||
| Mark Lambert (Mlambert890)
New member Username: Mlambert890 Post Number: 11 Registered: 4-2002 |
The ironic thing, though, is that those assumptions are probably wrong 99% of the time. That's why the only reasonable thing to do is buy the car that appeals to you and not give a second thought to what (most likely mistaken) perception of you it will inspire in others... Personally, I'd go for the TR if you can comfortably afford to maintain it. If you are like me, you KNOW you can't *really* resist the TR, so just go for it! The only thing stopping me is money and lifestyle (two big ones :-) ) | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 345 Registered: 10-2001 |
ANY car you buy is a statement on who you are whether you realize it or not. Cheap econo box says something as does a Lexus. In the exotic world, it's the same. With apologies to all who own these cars: I see a Porsche I think, "No imagination" I see a Lamborghini and I think, "Look at me look at me look at me look at me" Unless it's a Muira. Then it's "Holy crap, a Muira!!!!" Ferrari says, "I'm willing to put up with anything if it's what I want". I see a Viper and I think, "Loves to drag race" I see a Lotus and I see family; usually an Esprit so it's a cousin. (91 Elan is the black sheep of the family!*S*) Maseratis (Ghibli, Indy) I think, "Tasty...and even more willing to put up with anything than Ferrari owners" So...I know all different kinds of people drive these cars and when I meet them I throw out all these notions but it's the human condition to pidgeon hole. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 109 Registered: 2-2001 |
I dunno, Ross. If you're looking at buying either car to deliver a message about "who you are", a sensible argument might be made to pass on both. On the other hand, if you're shopping with the goal of having fun at the helm, Jason's quandry is pretty understandable. | ||
| jake liddell (Enzoforza)
New member Username: Enzoforza Post Number: 17 Registered: 10-2001 |
I have an 89 328GTS and a 98 Viper GTS "Venom 600". I love both of these cars for different reasons. My viper is a bit over 600 h.p. so 0-60 times are a no brainer. The viper seems a bit more geared to the boy racer crowd and I get many high school age kids that will follow me, give thumbs up etc. Also everyone wants to race you for some reason. The Ferrari on the other hand has a much more refined feel. It has better brakes and I think that the Ferrari would beat the viper on a track if they had identical power. The Ferrari has a less roomy interior (I'm 6'1") but the roof comes off wich is a great feature that Viper does not have. The Viper gets much more attention than the Ferrari. My viper has very lumpy cams and VERY LOUD exaust so that might add to the attention (the Ferrari is Stock). If you are looking to trade the viper I would not get a 308-328-348. I think you might be disapointed with the power compared to the Viper. I think if you could get a 92-94 512TR or a 355, 360, but now you are looking at $$$$$. The performance of these cars are a much better match for the viper. I think that the 308-328-348 cars are great (or I would not have one!!) but going from a Viper with 500hp/500tq to a 270/hp/230tq?? 328gts may prove dissapointing | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
New member Username: Ross Post Number: 36 Registered: 3-2002 |
i agree with lloyd. have driven both and own the 512tr. the tr is visceral and dynamic and more involving. i think it also depends on what you will be using the car for and how you see yourself. in the end for me, it came down to the question of what car could i see myself in whether it was for going for a sunday spin in my jeans, going to work in a suit, or taking my wife out wearing a tux. the viper comes out looking like a cartoon or some kind of adolescent fantasy, and at the very least it does not vouch well for your taste. whereas, the ferrari delivers all the speed and noise and heritage, but also delivers a totally, and i would say better, message about who you are. then again, if i had the money and garage space to keep 10 cars, i would probably have a viper gts just for fun ! | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 154 Registered: 3-2002 |
Jason it comes down to this: if you like horsepower and dont care about the company who makes the car, get a viper. If you want an all around more comfortable, better sounding, and a more pleasing but more expensive car, get a ferrari..also nothing beats the sound of a flat 12 | ||
| Lloyd Bemis (Lloyd)
New member Username: Lloyd Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2001 |
I had an early RT/10 and now have a 94 512 TR. I can verify the early vipers ability to spin as I did it once on the street. Luckily I hit nothing. The 512 and the Viper are very different and your satisfaction with either will depend on your priorities. If you like to drop the clutch at a red light with 0-60 encounters being a priority, it is hard to beat the Viper. While the 512 is also very fast from 0-60, to do it regularly may cost you a very expensive clutch. It is in the curves and from 50 mph and up that the TR gives me more satisfaction than the Viper. And the sound of a 12 cylinder at high RPM is music. I remember one of the car rags described the early vipers as making "agricultural noises." This was certainly true of my Viper. If money is an issue, the Ferrari service costs must be considered in your purchase decision. I was recently quoted $8,500 for my 15,000 mile service with belt changes. Both cars are a lot of fun, but I prefer the 512. But I always lusted for a Ferrari and grew up with a Fiat X 1/9 and an Alfa Romeo. I recommend you search this site for all three cars, including the Viper. The key is for you to decide what is important to you. | ||
| Peyman (Peyman)
New member Username: Peyman Post Number: 14 Registered: 1-2002 |
I owned, (recently sold a 2000 Viper RT/10) yes it was fast, but it wasn't the kind that sparked passion and made you want to drive the car more, it was just fast period. and the 2000 model still spun out pretty easily, it has horrible brakes, it gets more attention than a ferrari specially from the younger crowd. It was nice to own one once and that is about it. | ||
| Richard L. Diasio (Putpark)
New member Username: Putpark Post Number: 10 Registered: 7-2001 |
Jason, I own a 308, 360 and a Viper GTS. If you like having 500HP you won't be happy with a 348. I assume you have a modified GTS or at least a newer modified RT/10. It also depends where you live. Most of the year I live in Indiana with a lot of rednecks who can't spell Ferrari and don't recognize the Viper is really a cartoon. Not knocking it but it really does look like a cartoon version of a sports car. Last summer I drove to my dry cleaner with my red 360 and the owner looked at the car in the parking lot and asked me what it was. When I told him he responded that it was a nice car. When I returned a few days later in my red GTS the owner and his wife ran out to see the Viper. They couldn't believe how gorgeous it was. I guess it takes all kinds! Tim, The older RT/10's had fabricated suspension that was not at all good for the track. I own Putnam Park and two years after the Viper was introduced we hosted a Viper Club event, the first the club had done. None had any track experience and while they had a good time and no one was hurt there were so many spins that to this day they still hold the track record for driving on the green. The 400hp (at the time) was too much for the suspension to handle. •••• Diasio | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 235 Registered: 3-2001 |
Definitely get a Ferrari. You won't regret the change. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 755 Registered: 6-2001 |
Dont pre-96 vipers spin out really easily? | ||
| Andrew (Enzo250gto)
New member Username: Enzo250gto Post Number: 35 Registered: 2-2002 |
Jason, Depends on the year Viper. If its a GTS I would only do the trade for a 512. If its a 90-94 RT/10 Viper I would trade it for any Ferrari. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 752 Registered: 6-2001 |
Its a close call...viper or 348. I love the ferrari but i love the viper. So what if it has 2 valves per cylinder? If it does the job it does the job. They also look so mean and wide, especially at night with the headlights. They look more masculine than the ferrari, imo. The ferrari looks more delicate. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
New member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 33 Registered: 3-2002 |
Keep the snake. Do you like the 308s? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1455 Registered: 12-2000 |
I want a Viper, but only after the 355 C and the 250 GT and the '70 Boss 302 and the Pantera and Z06. | ||
| Michael Yip (Mightyslash)
New member Username: Mightyslash Post Number: 16 Registered: 4-2002 |
I agree with Ernie. Keep the Viper. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 283 Registered: 11-2001 |
Keep the Viper, and get a TR. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 108 Registered: 2-2001 |
If you're tracking the car frequently and the Viper is a coupe, I'd take the Dodge. If it's primarily a street car, drive both and pick the one that feels most "right" to you. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Junior Member Username: Whart Post Number: 224 Registered: 12-2001 |
Why not a Supra (just kidding, see other thread). You might be happier with the torque(spelled TORK in viperland) of a 12 than you will with that of a 348. Also the older 348's (pre-spider) were known to have some problemos. As to mystique, heritage, race history and the like, though, there is no question: the Supra, hands-down. Good Luck. | ||
| Randy (Schatten)
Member Username: Schatten Post Number: 277 Registered: 4-2001 |
I'd vouch for the TR anyday. Much more power than the 348, and the Vipers - they are fun cars, but I think the fun-factor will last much longer than it would in a Viper. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2392 Registered: 2-2001 |
As per FNA, the F50 is a 5 valve car. Must be the heat. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2508 Registered: 2-2001 |
No question, Ferrari hands down. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2387 Registered: 2-2001 |
Yes the viper is a 2 valve car, but so is the corvette. Most pushrod cars are 2 valve. The 355 and 360 have 5 valves, but I think the F50 has only 4 if I remember correctly. I know all the other cars have 4 back to the 308QV and TR. From there back are 2 valve cars. I would get a Ferrari, I mean come on. I think TRs are out of this world, especially with a set of 18" rims on them. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 148 Registered: 3-2002 |
dont they have like 2 valves per cilender? I dont know much about engines but a 355 and the f50 have 5 valves per and all ferrari's after the 308QV have 4 per..a honda has 4 valves per.. the viper a total of 20 valves for a v10..thats 4 more valves then my 4 cylinder honda | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1454 Registered: 12-2000 |
The Viper is great looking, fast as hell, and a piece of ••••. Ask anyone that has worked on them. | ||
| Toby T (Tobyt)
New member Username: Tobyt Post Number: 20 Registered: 3-2002 |
Yes. I think there is a guy who just did what you might be doing on VCA... he now has a yellow TR. I think. I have driven both vipers and Ferrari's and to me personally they are two very different kinds of cars. I love them both. | ||
| Jason (Smokinv10)
New member Username: Smokinv10 Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2002 |
TobyT, you are on the VCA Forum too right? | ||
| Toby T (Tobyt)
New member Username: Tobyt Post Number: 17 Registered: 3-2002 |
You will miss the "seat of your pants" feel of the viper but will enjoy the "overall feel" of a Ferrari. Vipers are fast and if modified...really fast! Ferrari is fast but its the "overall package" that is so attractive. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 342 Registered: 10-2001 |
Discounting mundane issues like cost, I personally would buy the TR. 12 cylindars can't be beat! Second choice is a 328 (over the 348) but that's just me. | ||
| L.C.Plester (Lcplester)
New member Username: Lcplester Post Number: 32 Registered: 2-2002 |
The previous owner of my TR traded his Viper for it. In my opinion both of these cars are great looking, great going. I've had many American cars and really do like them (last one was a C5), with Viper you get a lot of respect from others (and from me!). Still, if I were you, I would try a Ferrari. When you finally have a Ferrari in your garage you won�t look back! There�s just so much heritage and passion in that car. You just can�t hate yourself after that Go for it! | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 146 Registered: 3-2002 |
I would go for it..vipers made by dodge..which is dare i say worse then even ford..look at the neon! haha (points and laughs) a 348 or a testarossa will be a feast on your senses.. enjoy | ||
| Jason (Smokinv10)
New member Username: Smokinv10 Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2002 |
I know this is going to be a biased crowd, but what would you think about trading a 500hp Viper for an older Testarossa or a perfect condition 348TS? Am I crazy? Am I right? |