| Author | Message | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 1042 Registered: 10-2001 |
Pete, I disagree that the Sultan's more weird cars have little collector interest. In a well advertised auction, I would think some would fetch considerable money. Not as much as a 250 GTO of course, but I think the fact he owned it and it may be a unique Ferrari would pull a lot of weight. Just my opinion... | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 625 Registered: 11-2002 |
Horsefly, I actually agree with you on this to some degree, but one assumes that a one off commissioned by a filthy rich bastard and implemented by a professional company like Pininfarina is going to be better than 99% of other one-off specials. Thus in the end one-off specials, that are not requested by Ferrari, are all judged on their history and built quality. Obviously if I built a one off special in my back yard and it went and won Le Mans in 2004, it suddenly will become a little more worthy than if I just practised wheel-spins down the local race track for the boys  Thus most of Sultan of Brunei's cars would be of little interest to most collectors because they have NO history ... ie. they sat in his glorious barn and did not move or do anything. Thus they are only of interest to people that have an orgasim over the weird and wonderfully different. Personally I would rather have a non-unique car that Phil Hill won x number of races in , as it has real and important history. Pete | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1337 Registered: 5-2002 |
Faisal, you are right on target. I am familiar with the Bosley. About 10 years ago, Road & Track Magazine did an entire article about the Bosley. But the Bosley was ONE MAN'S CREATION. Not a factory authorized creation by Ferrari or Pininfarina or Fisher Body or any other factory. ONE guy built the car out of fiberglass in his garage back in 1953. Powered by a 354 Chrysler Hemi if I remember correctly. (Facel Vega anybody?) But sadly, the Bosley would not receive the same recognition among the upper crusters as would a fifth rebody of a scrap SWB Ferrari frame by the Sultan of Burrostan. | ||
| Faisal Khan (Tvrfreak)
Member Username: Tvrfreak Post Number: 371 Registered: 3-2003 |
Horsefly, there was a one-off made by an individual that fetched a lot at a recent auction. It was called a Bosley. Very good-looking and well-finished car. Several of the Sultan of Brunei's one-off Ferraris have been sold off. Two are in the Marconi museum, and were written up in Forza some time back. There's some pics of them on my website as well, www.tvrfreak.com. Follow the links to the car collections. Faisal. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1335 Registered: 5-2002 |
If a prototype was produced by Pininfarina at the REQUEST of Ferrari, then it would be a legitimate car in my opinion, because it was requested BY Ferrari. If if was produced by Pininfarina at the REQUEST of the Sultan of Brunei, the King of Kabulistan, or Little Orphan Annie, then it would be an aftermarket hack job, because it was NOT requested or authorized by the Ferrari factory. That seems easy enough to understand. If General Motors requests a one-off car from it's Fisher Body plant, then it would be a legitimate General Motors automobile. If Joe Smith of Tumbleweed, Arizona takes his Corvette to the Fisher Body plant and requests a new body, then it would be an aftermarket hack job because it was never authorized by GM. | ||
| Brian W (Jetx)
New member Username: Jetx Post Number: 20 Registered: 6-2003 |
BTW Arlie, how would you classify the other prototype cars (Mythos, Pinin Farina, Testarossa Spyder) that Ferrari unveiled in their booths at auto shows? Would they be hacks? Even though the Testarossa convertible was a one off (actually two produced) by Pininfarina for Ferrari. I don't see how you can separate the two? These prototypes were built by Pininfarina for Ferrari. | ||
| Brian W (Jetx)
New member Username: Jetx Post Number: 19 Registered: 6-2003 |
"If it was "unofficially" sanctioned, then doesn't that make it "officially" an aftermarket hack job?" No. We're not talking about Strosek or Koenig or Zagato, but Pininfarina. They do design Ferrari's cars and have managed assembly of major components for Ferrari's cars. The fact that the factory endorses (or looks the other way) the cars that come out (they are badged Ferrari with approval from Ferrari) makes them more than "hack jobs" Let's not forget that while the heart and soul is Ferrari and comes from Ferrari, the exterior comes from Pininfarina regardless if an "official" Ferrari model available at your local dealer or not. | ||
| Andrew-Phillip Goalen (Andrewg)
Junior Member Username: Andrewg Post Number: 116 Registered: 9-2002 |
Jim, thats one of the two three seat cars, it was at the owners concours a couple of years ago | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1333 Registered: 5-2002 |
"unofficially sanctioned and approved by Ferrari" If it was "unofficially" sanctioned, then doesn't that make it "officially" an aftermarket hack job? If I took a car to Pininfarina and asked them to do a hack job on it, it would be just another after-factory creation. But of course since it was done for the Sultan of Brunei, then we must all bow down in homage and extole the virtues of the hack job. | ||
| Brian W (Jetx)
New member Username: Jetx Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2003 |
>>Rebodied cars are non-original aftermarket products that come from butchered factory originals. Once butchered, forever butchered, regardless of whether the owner is a Fortune 500 member or a factory worker. << Problem is the cars being referred to here (Sultan of Brunei) were unofficially sanctioned and approved by Ferrari and designed, manufacturerd and delivered by Pininfarina. These aren't "butchered" cars as much as everyone would like to believe, but fully engineered examples by Pininfarina. And I know I'm alone here, but I really love the 456GT Estate (four door hatchback). | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 1986 Registered: 7-2001 |
How about the 1971 365P Guida Centrale? Yes, it's a Ferrari. Does anyone know what makes it unique? L. Wayne, you're not eligible for this contest! | ||
| Erich Walz (Deleteall)
Member Username: Deleteall Post Number: 428 Registered: 12-2001 |
Here's the back.  | ||
| Erich Walz (Deleteall)
Member Username: Deleteall Post Number: 427 Registered: 12-2001 |
WOW! Never saw the "Boldie" before today. I'm going to Home Depot this weekend to buy some plywood and urethane foam.  | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 1038 Registered: 10-2001 |
A car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. There are several home made cars I'm aware of that are very, very valuable. There was an example in a recent Road and Track of some hideous yellow race car cobbled together by someone that sold for mucho buckage. A factory Ferrari one off should be very sought after and will generally have some value. It will have Ferrari parts, a cool body (with some noteable exceptions) and probably some goofy engineering aspect that is poorly realized. But collectors love such cars and pay for them. I would not put such a car in the same class as a Ferrari Frankenstein made in someone's garage with spare Ferrari parts. | ||
| Dan 360 (Dan360)
Junior Member Username: Dan360 Post Number: 67 Registered: 2-2003 |
The F50 Bolide was in fact just a "styling-buck" rather than a complete car. At the time it was prepared the Sultan had suffered a bit of a downturn and didn't go ahead and get the car. He does have plenty of other interesting specials including several 4-door 456s and a 456 station wagon. Lots of "one-offs" are actually made in small single digit numbers. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 748 Registered: 2-2001 |
Because someone is willing to pay that price for it plain and simple. And most backyard makes look exactly like they were made in a backyard. | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
Member Username: Milo Post Number: 301 Registered: 4-2003 |
I kind of agree with you Arlie. Why does one abstract piece of art demand millions while another gets not even a second glance. I guess when you have the reputation of a Pininfarino then your work is art but until then it is junk. Doesn't seem right. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1331 Registered: 5-2002 |
No Bill, I don't want all cars to be equal. I want all STANDARDS to be equal. Just because the owner of a rebodied piece of junk is an upper crust big shot, that shouldn't make the car any better than if a time clock punching factory worker owned it. Let's all be mature enough to admit the truth: Rebodied cars are non-original aftermarket products that come from butchered factory originals. Once butchered, forever butchered, regardless of whether the owner is a Fortune 500 member or a factory worker. | ||
| Bill Steele (Glassman)
Member Username: Glassman Post Number: 290 Registered: 4-2002 |
Horsefly, You are exactly right, so whats your point? It seems like you want all cars to be equal. If we don't have anything to strive for won't we just quit? There will always be bigger and better even if you are a Billionare! | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1330 Registered: 5-2002 |
"One off" usually means a one-of-a-kind car built by the factory for some big shot. Of course if YOU built a one-of-a-kind car for yourself or some regular working class guy, it's considered a piece of junk. Unless of course, you actually pay to have some Italian coachwork company hammer a body out of aluminum by hand, then the upper crust car collectors will stand around your car at the swanky concours-de-elegance with drinks in hand and extole the wonderful virtues of your latest "restoration". (Unless of course, you work 40 hours a week instead of being a Fortune 500 high roller. In that case, your "home brewed" creation is a piece of junk. | ||
| Bill Steele (Glassman)
Member Username: Glassman Post Number: 289 Registered: 4-2002 |
Not quite that simple. Not just anyone can do it and get away with it! | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
Member Username: Milo Post Number: 300 Registered: 4-2003 |
So somebody takes a Ferrari chassis, engine, etc and simply builds a different body and different interior around it. Got it. Thanks. | ||
| John A. Suarez (Futureowner)
Member Username: Futureowner Post Number: 757 Registered: 3-2002 |
examples include the one-off F50 Boldie made for the Sultan of Brunei or the Ferrari 330TRi/LM that one LeMans in 1962. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1365 Registered: 8-2001 |
Usually means a special commissioned car for a special customer or a styling exercise. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 616 Registered: 11-2002 |
They only made one of them ... thus very, very rare!! Pete | ||
| Craig A (Milo)
Member Username: Milo Post Number: 299 Registered: 4-2003 |
What does it mean for a car to be a "one-off"? Forza #47 mentions a "one-off Zagato", and I've read about other one-offs. Just curious what the term means. |