| Author |
Message |
Ryan Sabga (Sherpa23)
New member
Username: Sherpa23
Post Number: 24
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 2:07 pm: | |
Apparently, the cracking headers are not limited to the 1995 model years. I am looking into getting an F355 at the moment and I have come across owners who have had cracked headers all the way through 1997 models. One thing that I keep hearing is if the car has about 12k or more miles and hasn't had a problem with the headers, the issue will probably never arise. |
Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member
Username: Artherd
Post Number: 520
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 1:11 am: | |
Straight exhaust should not mess up ECUs or O2 sensors.
Does sound like a valve guide problem.
From your description, the shop you are dealing with sounds like a bunch of schmucks, you might be better off finding somebody else.
Car should be solid when you're done, and everybody's gotta change that cambelt anyway!
Best!
Ben |
MarkM (Zan)
Junior Member
Username: Zan
Post Number: 68
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 9:30 am: | |
If it is a 95 US 355, There are push buttons next to the ECUs. Pushing them causes the check engine lights to flash all memorized codes. Codes and procedures are in the WSM. Reader is not needed. |
adrian low (Audionut)
Junior Member
Username: Audionut
Post Number: 235
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 5:15 am: | |
Aren't there also issues with cracking headers? Were these limited to only specific years? |
Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member
Username: Mitch_alsup
Post Number: 835
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 11:19 pm: | |
"I don't think the codes are available to the public for the '95s and/or the readers available are compatible with them?"
The factory shop manual shows the codes. The codes can be read with a) oscilliscope, b)continuity checker, c) LED with resistor, d) voltmeter (if you are good). |
Myles H. Kitchen (Mhkitchen)
New member
Username: Mhkitchen
Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 11:56 am: | |
Hello all: Here's my 2 cents worth. I bought a '95 F355GTS in 2000 with 17K miles on it (with Tubi). It ran GREAT up until it fouled a plug at about 20K miles. New plugs alone didn't solve the problem, and found that it had a couple of wires misfiring. New wires & plugs have it running great again. Only have about 2K miles on it since fixing that, so don't know if valve guides were contributing to the problem or not yet. Guess I'll bite the bullet and do the guides at the 30K service coming up. But have to agree with the other posts on the '95 being a better choice (kinda like the old 308 quantry...QV or webers?). One factor to consider is that a '96 or newer are OBDII and can be self-diagnosed to some extent with a code reader. I don't think the codes are available to the public for the '95s and/or the readers available are compatible with them? Does anyone know? The '95 has twin mass airflow sensors instead of a single on '96+ which allows more airflow and perhaps the reason for more power. Also, did a little research and believe that there were ONLY about 25 or so total USA GTS's imported in '95 by Ferrari. So, they are quite rare as the GTS's availability came along after the Berlinneta and Spyder. 96 and later have much higher numbers imported. |
Michael Green (Michaelg)
New member
Username: Michaelg
Post Number: 16
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 9:51 am: | |
I speak with extensive new experience after buying my 96 355s with straight thru pipes. I will post later with full pictorial of what is being done to the car. Car had 29,000 kms on the clock, with last registered cambelt change at 25k. My favourite colour scheme, inside and out. Love at first site I was always in for a 360 unless I found a 355s in these colours. BUYER BEWARE. Let's just say that if it weren't for the fact I love this little car so much and it gives me such pure driving enjoyment I would have long ago driven it off a cliff.
To any prospective buyer most here advocate having a thorough check up before buying. I thought that was what I was having before I bot the car. But shops work with shops to get sales made. Bottom line I had a problem after the first drive, took it back, they told me it was my extremely harsh straight thru pipes messing with the ECU , thereby screwing the fuel mix, and thereby damaging the engine. It didn't help that I put 2,000kms on the car very quickly , and a good portion of that was driving it on Japanese 'Skylines', which are tantamount to your own personal race track with no cops, and switchbacks the whole way thru very picturesque scenery. Problem became more familiar. I took the car back to my dealer after every drive (only had 4) and they told me it was the exhaust damaging messing the ECU , and therefore the engine. (I must say it was the best sounding car I have ever heard). Problem worsened. I asked if cambelts should be changed- "no it's an exhaust problem".
Cut a long story short- car is now having major open heart surgery- cambelt change, both heads open checking the valves, pistons, rings, cams, (which seem to be ok), rash adjuster change (40x), cleaning both sides of engine, and while I'm at it I've asked for them to change the clutch. Total cost (basic engine rebuild), and clutch is in the vicinity of $15,000. I bot her at a discount(oh hello) and probably this is why. WhenI get the F-car back should be in peach condition, but I hate the sound (since I changed back to original) so that's going to an MS exhaust installation later which will be another $4k. All in all a massive learning experience, but I'm determined to get the F-car up to what it should be and cannot compare the enjoyment I've had in it already to anything else I've driven.
Downside tho is that this is all $$$$$ |
david handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1137
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 2:06 am: | |
Mitch,
And anyone else..My understanding of this valve guide problem (explained to me by mechanic, I am NOT an mechanic) that if you have a valve guide problem, a compression/leakdown test will not detect the problem itself, unless progressed to the point of other damage from the problem...That is you could have a leaky valve guide problem for a while and the test would not show it, and while oil consumption might be elevated, everything would appear normal, that is it would drive fine and test fine. Can someone elaborate, or is this incorrect? JRV?
My concern (I would like to get a 355) is that most of these cars don't have enough miles yet to have experienced any problems. Once these cars start hitting 25k or more, then the incidence may go way up. Again, not ALL cars, but a much higher number than we have seen thus far.
To me, the ideal car seems to be a 95, most that have them seem real pleased with them. What is the ballpark to pre-emptively go after this problem and upgrade to the steel guides? |
Ed (Ed355)
New member
Username: Ed355
Post Number: 13
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 12:26 am: | |
Thanks Mitch for the detailed response.
If I have a valve guide problem, I take it the car will go slower. How noticeable is this? What other signs are there for this problem? |
arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member
Username: Art355
Post Number: 1985
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 11:38 am: | |
355s are great cars. Just because its a 95 doesn't mean that there will be more problems. There is an issue about the guides, and an issue about the cylinders. Hopefully you won't have the cylinder problem.
Art |
IJVPF355 (Ijvpet)
New member
Username: Ijvpet
Post Number: 32
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 11:03 am: | |
I've had my '95 for 2 yrs now. It has 17,000 miles on it. (I bought it with 10,000). Its got a tubi, took out the cats and drive it how its made to be driven. I love it! I think this issue is wayyyyyyy over blown. If i'm to get another Fcar - IT WILL be either a '95 spider or a (preferrably) '95 GTS. |
Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member
Username: Mitch_alsup
Post Number: 827
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 10:46 am: | |
"What exactly is a valve guide?"
The valve guide is what holds the valve on center so that it can lift (and allow air in/out) and then drop back on the valve seat (to close the combustion chamber). Since the valve gets opened and closed a lot (and more at higher RPMs) either the valve stem or the valve guide will wear as miles accumulate on the engine.
The F355 engine was Ferraris first road going engine with a) Titanium valves, b) 8500 RPM red line. The titanium valve stems may be more abrasive than the older steel valve stems that worked well in the 348 engines. Or the higher RPM redline may be part of the issue.
In any event, sometine durring the production of 95 F355s the guide issue was discovered (from 348 challenge racers) and the guide material was changed to sintered steel. It has been found, resently, that bronze guides have been found in cars as late as the 97 model year.
"how does one know if he has a valve guide problem?"
A leak down test is performed, and one or more cylinders lead down more than what is allowed. This is performed at 30K majors and sometimes on 15K minor services. |
Ed (Ed355)
New member
Username: Ed355
Post Number: 12
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 12:01 am: | |
I have a 1995 355GTS. Forgive me for asking, how does one know if he has a valve guide problem? What exactly is a valve guide? |
Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
Junior Member
Username: Scott63
Post Number: 113
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 3:29 pm: | |
I obviously agree with these posts because of my recent purchase of a 95 355B. I should have my car in a week. The heads are back on the car(the guides have been replaced) and the engine is still out while they complete the major service. I think the car is faster and sounds better even with the stock exhaust than later 355's. |
James Shand (Jrs)
New member
Username: Jrs
Post Number: 3
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 2:56 pm: | |
I also recently bought a 95 GTS , 9k miles , absolutely great - hopefully no valve problems !! Drove a 97 car and agree that the 95 car "felt" quicker |
Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member
Username: Mitch_alsup
Post Number: 824
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 2:41 pm: | |
Don't know how two copies got on this thread. |
Keith Verges (Kverges)
New member
Username: Kverges
Post Number: 6
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 2:35 pm: | |
Glad to hear it - I just bought a '95 |
Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member
Username: Mitch_alsup
Post Number: 823
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 1:48 pm: | |
I understood the issues involved with the soft guides, headers when I bought my 95 F355 with a 1 year warentee at 22,000 miles. It now has 36,000 miles (and over 1000 miles on various race tracks); I run the snot out of the car regularly, and am yet to encounter any valve guide issue.*,** I love this car!
*as seen in a previous thread, even post 95 cars are subject to soft valve guide issues.
**In addition, with the accumulation of track miles, I am expecting to do a top end rebuild around the time of the next 30K engine out (50K miles). I consider this just part of the cost/benefit ratio of cars like this. |
Ron Vallejo (Ron328)
Junior Member
Username: Ron328
Post Number: 218
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 1:44 pm: | |
Great to hear these comments. The 355 is on my list of next f-car to have.
Are there other issues of concern w/ the 355?
Is the major service "engine out?" (Not that the latter is a big deal) |
David A. Spear (Detailman)
Junior Member
Username: Detailman
Post Number: 112
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 1:19 pm: | |
Charles, I bought mine not knowing these things (and mine was more affordable for my budget) but seems I just got lucky glad to hear your experience. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 2616
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 1:17 pm: | |
The 355 is one of the best little Italian V8s out there. |
A.Tonokaboni (Senna1994)
Junior Member
Username: Senna1994
Post Number: 118
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 1:16 pm: | |
Very well said. I have owned my 95 since 1998 and it is a joy to drive. I have knock on wood no problems with Soft Valve Guides (but if it pops up) that is life. I love my 95 and it feels a lot quicker than later 355's I have been in. Scott De Ghetto enjoy your 355 (1995) it will be a great car. |
Ricky Nardis (Rickyn_f355)
Member
Username: Rickyn_f355
Post Number: 405
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 1:16 pm: | |
amen, same here....95 with soft valves cured, a tubi exhaust and no cats! One of my favorite sounds in the world.
:-)
|
Charles Dyer (Charles_dyer)
New member
Username: Charles_dyer
Post Number: 7
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 1:11 pm: | |
When determining which 355 model year is best to buy the conventional wisdom offered by many posts to this site and various publications is to avoid the 95 model yr because of soft valve guides and other issues.. Here's why I bought mine. I purchased the car with 2K miles on it off the San Francisco dealer's floor in 1996. The car now has 45K miles. I could have bought either a 95 or 96. There was very little price difference. Before I made my decision I drove both cars. Why did I choose the 95? Very simple...the car was significantly quicker and just felt like a hotter exotic. Another issue was because of changes in emissions standards in 96 it had a less complex control system. My past experiences with F cars had taught me that leaner means hotter and that means more trouble down the road. Also, I believe that the 95's are slightly lower and that's a plus for me. Yes, I replaced my valve guides at 30k. Over the years now I have been in many other 355's and I have no regrets. When it comes to 355's the 1995 is the "real deal" Having owned F cars for many years,trust me, I've never known a particular model year that doesn't have some idiosyncrasy attached to it, all expensive. Let some time go by and every model year will have one. |