| Author | Message | ||
| Kevin Deal (Tube_guy)
New member Username: Tube_guy Post Number: 24 Registered: 5-2003 |
I am having ArmourFend installed now on the nose and mirrors, and replacing the factory stuff on wheel wells. I am having second thoughts though about doing the lower portion front of the hood on my 360. Though I know it vulnerable. My Porsche gets it there bad. Any feedbank is appreciated. I will post results. ArmourFend has the best patterns. There is a difference in the number of cuts, etc....that will effect appearence. | ||
| Bryan (Gmblack3)
New member Username: Gmblack3 Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2003 |
Vince, Thanks for the welcome!! The installer I used then is no longer in business. I'm dealing straight with xpel to get the pieces (three for the front) replaced. I figure if they are going to send me more for free might as well get it reinstalled. | ||
| Vince (Manatee)
Junior Member Username: Manatee Post Number: 246 Registered: 6-2002 |
Bryan, welcome to f-chat! Who installed it, and would you use xpel again? | ||
| Bryan (Gmblack3)
New member Username: Gmblack3 Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2003 |
Guys, Thought I could add my experience with Xpel here. Even though I don't own a Ferrari, I am a big fan. I know a couple of the members in the area. These pics are of xpel on my 01 Z06. It has been on for 20 months and 34k miles. As you can see from the pic it's starting to yellow. They have a 4 year warranty against yellowing, so they are going to replace the front bumper pieces.  This pic is after I removed the Xpel. I used some heat from a hair dryer. I just started by pealing it off at one side. The only residue it left was at the outline of the product. That was easily removed when washing the car. Just a little extra elbow grease required.  Just a few more pics of the xpel removed. The finish does look different from the hood to the bumper. The rest of the car has about 6-9 coats of zaino on it where the bumper has none. I wish I would have had it done to other areas of the car. Areas aft of the wheels wells could of used it.   | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 733 Registered: 8-2002 |
 | ||
| adrian low (Audionut)
Junior Member Username: Audionut Post Number: 242 Registered: 4-2003 |
THANKS! Don't you ever sleep? | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 727 Registered: 8-2002 |
On my 308QV, I put the 3M material on the front euro/long spoiler, and on each of the small lower panels behind each wheel. I didn't really want it anywhere else. On newer Ferraris, it's actually less noticeable than on the older Ferraris. Newer Ferraris with clearcoat are often not fully wet-sanded by hand to have a smooth-as-glass finish found on the older cars like mine. The material has a surface finish almost identical to the newer paint jobs. I didn't buy pre-cut kits, but instead just bought the raw stock, made paper patterns, and then cut the film to size while still on the backing material. Applying the material isn't difficult, just a bit tedious. For the small panels it was a breeze, but for the spoiler took time to do it right since it was such a large panel. If I was having a full kit done, I might pay a professional to do it. Basically, though, you clean the panel, wet it with water with a little baby shampoo in it to make it slippery, position the film on the panel, then lift a corner and spray it with a water/alcohol mix. That will make it actually stick in that corner. You squeegee it down in that corner. You then lift more of the film on that piece, working your way around, spraying with the water/alcohol mix and squeegee as you go. If you do have any small bubbles when you're done, if you can't work them to an edge, you just use a pin in the middle of the bubble and then squeegee the air out of it. If you buy raw material from www.xpel.com they'll send you a free teflon squeegee and an installation video. I don't know about the places that sell the pre-cut kits, but they probably do something similar. For your area that you've gone through to bare metal, you need to spot prime it, even if it's with just a tiny paintbrush, so it doesn't rust. You can then use some red touch up paint followed by the Langka stuff for a temporary repair of the rock chip that will look pretty good and still be almost unnoticeable unless you already know its there. There's info on the Langka.com site about "deep scratch repair" that fits your circumstance. | ||
| adrian low (Audionut)
Junior Member Username: Audionut Post Number: 238 Registered: 4-2003 |
How hard are Stoneguard/3M type films to apply? Where would you apply it, lower rocker spoilers only or including the front hood and fender areas? How high up to cover? Should these be applied by a professional? Where can I find info on these materials? I recently had an "incident" with a meteorite! Left a nice sized ding on the lower hood, REALLY noticeable, and I can see bare metal. Also, what would you guys recommend I do to touch this up? Saw Langka's stuff for buffing out excess touch up paint. Any help would be appreciated. Just trying to delay painting the hood 'til next spring/fall | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 726 Registered: 8-2002 |
No problem, just email me your address and I'll stick it in the mail today with a copy of the application instructions. | ||
| RacerNika (Racernika)
New member Username: Racernika Post Number: 31 Registered: 6-2003 |
gosh Mike - 3x5 I'd say - it's the bottom right Eddie Irvine signature I'm trying to save. I'll certainly pay for shipping AND send you some www.racerchicks.com gear!!! | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 725 Registered: 8-2002 |
Nika, I've got some left over, so if you only need a small piece, give me the dimensions and I'll see if I have it and if so I will mail it to you. [email protected] Otherwise, you can order 3m raw material in sheet or strip form from www.xpel.com | ||
| RacerNika (Racernika)
New member Username: Racernika Post Number: 30 Registered: 6-2003 |
Does anyone know where I can get a small sheet of it? Too much work to clear coat the helmet again. ( I want to protect the autograph on my racing helmet since it's starting to smear). http://www.racerchicks.com/motor/helmet_art_2.html | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 724 Registered: 8-2002 |
The CrystalGuard warrantee says, in part, "Vehicles eligible for this warranty must be current model year, new, with less than 5,000 miles on the odometer at the time of application." They also do NOT cover rock chips, just fading or losing luster Again, it says in part, "This Limited warranty does not apply to: damage from pre-existing conditions or damage caused by acts of abuse, vandalism, road hazards, collisions or similar accident, fire, wind, lighting, flood, hail, alterations, stone or sand abrasion, misuse, negligence, bugs, corrosive chemicals, paint chipping, cracking, peeling, vehicle manufacturer defects, alterations of factory�s original painted finish or body modifications." So hey, your paint chips, you're on your own. You get a rock chip, you're on your own. It cracks, you're on your own. Even if you hit an INSECT and it causes damage, you're on your own. | ||
| Chris Coffing (Valence)
Junior Member Username: Valence Post Number: 115 Registered: 3-2003 |
Oh, yeah, if you are using a plastic film and a rock hits the car, you might think everything is o.k. until you remove the film, at which point "divots" of paint can come off too. The film just holds the chips in place. I guess there's adequate protection against small rocks and sand, but don't expect total protection if you're driving fast. | ||
| Chris Coffing (Valence)
Junior Member Username: Valence Post Number: 114 Registered: 3-2003 |
I wonder if you can get crystal guard off. Anyone know about repainting over it? The website says it contains flourine fibers. This makes me think that repainting (crystal guarded) surfaces might be tough. Can you get crystal guard off? It doesn't look like it would peel off like the plastic films. What about taking care of existing swirls and tiny scratches? | ||
| Jason Fraser (Jfraser)
Member Username: Jfraser Post Number: 421 Registered: 3-2001 |
Nick, I'm going to send an email back to you. Crystalguard I'm sure is a very good product, but it's intended application is not as a stone chip solution....It appears to be very similar to Klasse - a polymer sealant. These products bond with the paint surface and form a very hard film. The purpose of this is paint protection against enviromental damage. I'm sure it would give you a nominal level of increased paint chip protection, but it's not going to compare to a ballistic plastic like 3M paint protection film. Frank, I agree with your remarks about Ferrari's being 'touched up' before they are delivered to the customer.....I have an inexplicable 'blend' in my paintwork. I'm sure this could explain why some people experience the paint peel situation. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1353 Registered: 11-2002 |
Nick, What you're thinking of is Perma Plate, which is truly worthless. As soon as you really wash your car that stuff comes off. Crystal Guard is very different from my understanding. Really good stuff. I've been looking for something like it for quite some time for my cars but I'm still in the shopping process. Probably because I'm not shopping too hard, but so far Crystal Guard is one of the front runners. Cheers | ||
| Nick Berry (Nickb)
Junior Member Username: Nickb Post Number: 112 Registered: 8-2002 |
Isn't Crystalguard similar to the applications dealers try to sell you when you purchase a new car? They work with an outside vendor and presumeably requires a full day to apply correctly. My wife bought a black BMW from a very reputable BMW dealer and agreed to the special coating which they highly recommended. Sad to say it was a total waste of money. | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 884 Registered: 9-2002 |
Mike, Find me anything that will effectively deflect a rock chip at 120. Multiple layers of CG are just as effective as Stongard, IMO, but without the goofy lines / marks / warping. As for warranty, doesn't CG offer up to $1M in liability on the repairs? Something rediculous like that. --Dan | ||
| 911 Fan (911fan)
New member Username: 911fan Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2003 |
Well, it will be interesting to see how these cars look when the film is finally peeled off after a few years. Somehow I find it hard to believe that the film-protected paint will have aged/faded/weathered just like the unprotected paint. I think it will be quite apparent where the film used to be! But I guess if you sell the car after a year or two, that will be somebody else's problem... btw Tube_guy, that's a nice Isetta! | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 721 Registered: 8-2002 |
$175?!? I thought you must be mistaken. They had sent me samples so that I could review it for my column. But you're right -- I just went to their website and that's apparently the only way to purchase their application if you want to do it yourself, other than their "quick" spray, which is still quite high priced. I'm glad you brought that up so I looked at what it cost before I wrote the column. I took several panels on my Ferrari (hood, fenders, decklid) and polished them with Griot's Machine Polish #3 (finest, and I did it by hand rather than with their random orbital buffer) to make sure there was no other finish, wax, or contaminants there... just bare paint or clearcoat. I then did portions side-by-side with single step Liquitech Finish First, 2-stage Zaino Brothers, and the full 3-step Crystal Guard Pro. The quality of the full application of Crystal Guard is excellent, but now there's the issue of "value", and at $175 I can't consider it a particularly good deal, and you'll pay more than that if you have someone else do it for you. I've been using Liquitech's Finish First for years. Frankly, I found that the shine, visual depth and feel to a bare hand on Crystal Guard is better than Finish First or Zaino. But you're paying about a 10x difference in cost to gain only about a probably 10% or less improvement compared to those other two, which are already outstanding in both appearance and longevity. And Crystal Guard is also very time consuming to put on in its 3 stages waiting 2-3 hours between stages, and prone to streaking. Even getting it free, I had already decided to stick with Finish First, which I have to pay for! People have trouble believing that (most of) the paint on my 1984 308QV is almost 20 years old! And I *do* also have 3M material on the 308's long euro front spoiler, and on the lower fender panels behind each of the 4 wheels. I just bought the material and cut it out for the few places I wanted it, making paper patterns first. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 299 Registered: 8-2002 |
$175.00 for Crystal Guard- what a rip off, their claims are its stronger than a clear coat with a hardness greater than nails, sounds like the infomercial scam claims on TV such as ProLong etc. I am sure they will shove it in your face on TV with Bobby Unser standing back throwing rocks from 10 ft at a Viper and you'll see "No Marks" I just ordered a complete 9 piece kit for my 328 from invinca-shield for 198.00, they guarantee a $1000 no fading or damage warranty | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 719 Registered: 8-2002 |
Dan: I agree that Crystal Guard has a great shine and good sealant surface, but don't expect it to deflect rock chips at 80-120mph. I also found it *not* that easy to apply, especially compared to other polymer-based sealants such as Finish First and Zaino Brothers. But potentially worth the effort. I've added it to my recommended product list that will be in my Concours/Detailing Tips column going into the Ferrari Club News publication. | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 882 Registered: 9-2002 |
Crystalguard for over a year, no paint fade, and it lasts this long. THe most amazing this is how easy it was to apply, how hard it is, and - most important, the SHINE! I did multiple layers, but this stuff is ridiculous. I will never try 3m or stongard now. --Dan | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5023 Registered: 5-2001 |
Stongard is a great product. Had it for years on my 348 and worked great. No fading and you did not know it was there till you look for it! | ||
| peter brinzey (Ferraripete)
Junior Member Username: Ferraripete Post Number: 72 Registered: 11-2002 |
Frank, I have used the helicopter tape on my 308 and boxer. i use it on the target areas (rockers, front spoiler lip, inside the fender lip, rear valence where tires kick up trash). I find this works well and have had it on for years w/o any problems at all. I have gotten very good at cutting the forms and applying the film. the best results can be gained by polishing and cleaning the surface well prior to putting on the film. spray the surface w/ fantastic, apply and slide into position the film. when properly in place, use a squeegie (sp?) to work out the bubbles and fantastic out. When all the bubbles are out the film will begin to dry in place and will get more and more clear in the hours to follow. a heat gun can be helpful to make the material more workable also. Hope this helps. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2624 Registered: 9-2001 |
Jason, do you know how many new Ferraris are partially repainted before they are first deliverd to the customer ? In fact Bo just repainted part of the front end and a rear fender on an Enzo a few weeks back that had been damaged in transit. I have seen many new Ferraris from 348s to the recent Enzo in his shop with the window sticker still affixed that he was repainting for FOA before delievering to the customer. I suppose it could be situations like that that result in the paint peeling off. In any event, I still prefer the look of the patina that developes from use. | ||
| Jason Fraser (Jfraser)
Member Username: Jfraser Post Number: 420 Registered: 3-2001 |
Frank, What he is removing can't be 3M scotchcal....It doesn't yellow!! It must be helicopter tape. Also, it doesn't peel the paint....The remover chemical applied breaks down the adhesive, and the film 'floats' off. The negative is that it's messy. The only paint issue relates to resprayed areas that haven't been allowed to cure before the film is applied. This product comes directly from the aerospace industry, it has been tested up the 'ying-yang'...If you're inclined go to the 3M website, and look at all the test data (all the methods of experiment & results are available)...It includes yellowing tests, impact resistance, peel strength requirements etc | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2623 Registered: 9-2001 |
Jason, call Bo Pirkle at Pirkle Body Shop and let him tell you himself how many Ferraris he has repainted because the protective film either yellowed and when removed it peeled off some paint or just peeled off paint when removed for other reasons. | ||
| Jason Fraser (Jfraser)
Member Username: Jfraser Post Number: 419 Registered: 3-2001 |
Kevin, Firstly Frank is wrong. 3M scotchcal (which is what all these products are) does NOT yellow and does NOT damage the paint. The helicopter tape crap that Ferrari puts on the cars does yellow, peel. Also scotchcal allows UV penetration, so that your paint will not be a different color if in a few years you remove the film. I know that it doesn't damage the paint cos' a mechanic accidently swiped a trolley jack against my front bumper...It destroyed the film (didn't touch the paint)...the film was then removed and reaplied. No problem. Choose a pattern that uses the least amount of seperate pieces.... i.e a single piece for the front bumper...It is more complicated to apply, but gives a better appearance. How it looks is directly related to how well it is applied, done well and despite what Frank says it is as good as invisible (on items with hidden edges) Choose an installer that has done multiple 360's (the one I used had done 20-30 Modena bumpers). Finally, go easy with the stuff, it's easy to get carried away and put the stuff everywhere. I didn't put any on the hood, as that's too much of a visual compromise. The main reason why edges become visible, is because of wax buildup. Use a quick detailer spray to remove the wax and the edge becomes invisible again. | ||
| Scott A. B. Collins (Scott)
Junior Member Username: Scott Post Number: 189 Registered: 6-2001 |
God, the end of the world is here. I tend to agree with Frank--a chip is a chip--the plastic material is tougher than Ferrari paint (then again so is a wet tissue), but it mars as well. I just have my bumper repainted every other year. It is a bit more expensive, but not by much. I have seen protective film on many cars--the edge is more noticable on certain colors than others. | ||
| Yoshi Ace (Tiger_ace)
Junior Member Username: Tiger_ace Post Number: 106 Registered: 5-2003 |
This is interesting post. I am considering to do this coating job on my all cars. The guy was referred by Chevy dealer, and their expensive Corvette are coated already in a showroom. Coating make it look new and no need to wax, maybe once in 1 month (he says it is not necessary) I do actually enjoy washing my cars, so the benefit is looking new w/out new paint. Frank's post is interesting. Do you know what material was used for coating? Don, crystal coating is probably their trade name for products. He said he'll do $700 for 3 cars. (w/ discount, he said) How long has it passed since you done it? | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 881 Registered: 9-2002 |
CrystalGuard is the answer. www.Crystalguard.com, I have done it to all my cars. --Dan PS: If you want more info, feel free to ask me. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1988 Registered: 6-2001 |
Take a look at this: http://www.incero.com/Car_Preparation/homepage.asp This might be a better solution. Art | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2620 Registered: 9-2001 |
Why ? IMHO the plastic look of the protective film looks worst that the patina from a few stone chips. Kinda like the plastic covers some people put on their new couches, ala Archie Bunker. If you are that concerned about stone chips, buy a bra that you can use for track events and long trips and save the protective film for birth control. A friend of mine who does paint/body work for FOA has shown me how this film crap yellows and/or damages the paint over time. You're better off just repainting your front bumper every few years . | ||
| Kevin Deal (Tube_guy)
New member Username: Tube_guy Post Number: 22 Registered: 5-2003 |
I have a 360 and want something that will not be as noticeable. Any info from other owners is appreciated. I did do a search. But I see that there are companies that vary in their patterns and techniques. Envisage here in Los Angeles...on some cars...will remove headlights and such to tuck in seams. Starshield does race cars. They are cheaper. Closer to me. But would rather get quality |