| Author | Message | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Junior Member Username: Ross Post Number: 62 Registered: 3-2002 |
it was interesting to read thru some of these responses - i like this website. here's my 2 cts if it can help your purchase decision. i always lusted after the tr but then the 512tr came out and that seemed like the ultimate 12 cyl mid-engine exotic. i had a 348ts but was never happy with that car's build quality or reliability (maybe it was just my car in particular). anyway, visited the dealer till i drove them crazy, but drove the tr and then the 512tr. there was a world of difference in exactly the areas you noticed on your brief drive in bruce's car. more torque provided low end grunt amongst the many improvements. all the other guys are right though when they say the true force of this car is only experienced at higher levels of speed and stress - it delivers flawlessly. so if you can either find the money now, or wait a little longer i would hold out for the 512tr. but don't wait for me because i will seriously never sell this car ! | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Junior Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 209 Registered: 4-2002 |
hey john thanks for the good words..ferraris are not known to do a speedy 0-60, or a 1/4 mile strip time, but once they get going...goodbye btw, my wife drives me around in my durango on the weekends as i refuse to drive other than the f-car  keep in touch..actually ken, the thread setter here like me bruce | ||
| John A (Jarends)
Junior Member Username: Jarends Post Number: 87 Registered: 7-2001 |
So Bruce, other are on to you. Good to see. Look forward to getting together soon. Have a good show next week.John When it comes to models, I picked up the 328, changed the belts (car sat for over a year), parked it in the garage, drive it on weekends (wife drives me around) and that's all the money spent. Hope it stays that way. If I want to rocket 0 to 60, I just get into one of the T/As and floor it. I'm just sitting behind an engine and wheels in those things. | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Junior Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 207 Registered: 4-2002 |
ken still no 308? i guess ill see the alfa this weekend at reading..then you will have to get a real ferrari...thE TR BRUCE | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
New member Username: Kdross Post Number: 28 Registered: 2-2002 |
Thanks a lot Bruce. And I thought we were friends. Ken | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Junior Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 116 Registered: 4-2002 |
HEY KEN MAYBE INSTEAD OF THE KITCHEN, MAYBE STEP IT UP TO A 512TR...SELL YOUR 308 AND REACH FOR ANOTHER 70K AND GET THAT POWERFUL TR... ILL SEND THIS EMAIL TO YOUR WIFE BRUCE | ||
| F-J'87EuroTR (Ferrarijoe)
Junior Member Username: Ferrarijoe Post Number: 115 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ken, I guess I am going to join the cause here, and it is because as others have stated, the TR is the best overall package for looks, the price range and power. When I started looking for a Ferrari, I thought I would get a 308 because I could almost afford it. However, the first time I saw a TR in person and up close, I knew it was the Ferrari model for me. This meant I would have to save and wait awhile longer, but it was worth it! Like Russ stated, I started looking in the FML and found my car listed there. I was leery at first because it was a Euro-spec and much cheaper ($15K) than the US-spec TR�s. So I set out and did some research and found that because of the stigma of gray market cars in the 1980�s, most people who where interested backed off Euros because of the EPA and DOT certifications that should be with the car after it was imported privately and converted to US specs. It seems for one reason or another that not all of the G-M cars had this very important paper work so people were concerned about its legality. Mine did not have them either but I was willing to take the risk. And if anyone can elaborate on this point, I would appreciate it. 4 months after seeing it in FML, I bought it and brought the car to Wash. State and while registering it for the first time the clerk said the VIN did not match a US model and I needed to have it inspected for EPA and DOT certification. I setup an appointment. I got the emissions test first and it passed. Under the EPA and DOT inspectors� scrutiny, it passed and he affixed an EPA-DOT seal to the door pillar and that was it. It was well worth the small hassle (less $15K) and I think it helped tremendously when I showed him the emissions certificate first. He never looked under the rear deck lid. My car was built in Sept. 1986 but designated a �87 year model with the high mirrors and knock-off wheels (non metric). It had been well kept with 24K miles on it with the 30K service done as part of the sellers deal (I saw most of it done). I have never regretted my choice once, and believe me I have had my fun with maintaining it (nothing major). I thank my Father for teaching me early on how to maintain cars. I, like other Ferrari owners, have had other sports cars that might have been faster out of the box but none of them had the lines, power, design and overall mechanical package that the TR has, IMO. Good luck on your hunt, Joe | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Junior Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 113 Registered: 4-2002 |
dr george nice words and great tr support... bruce | ||
| Dr. George Petito (Doc18015)
New member Username: Doc18015 Post Number: 33 Registered: 12-2001 |
Ken: I have owned many Porsches,Vettes(still do) and can say that the TR is the best PACKAGE of the lot!!!! Character,look, handling, quality of build and that wonderful 12 cylinder boxer engine design and sound has them all beat. No car other than maybe the F-40 or 50 has the charisma of the TR. I have made a few modifications to the engine such as induction (high flow air filter) and the exhaust (custom design free flow) and engine timing with good results. The TR offers the full tilt that others cannot approach. | ||
| Russ Moore (Rem9)
Junior Member Username: Rem9 Post Number: 68 Registered: 6-2001 |
I think Adam's estimate is right on target. A perfect, clean and low milage car will bring a premium. The supurb early TR's will bring that amount. | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Junior Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 110 Registered: 4-2002 |
nice article ken.....hi adam............ bruce | ||
| Adam Goldman '86 TR (Icnsltmfg)
Member Username: Icnsltmfg Post Number: 309 Registered: 8-2001 |
Bruce and I took the two Tr's out two weeks ago and had a blast. His car is in very nice shape, but he still put a few $$'s in just to bring it up to that point. My 86 was a low milage 14K all services done, and I paid a premium for that. I still have had to do a few $$'s worth of work to it to ensure it stay's in good shape. If you look at early TR's in the 40-55 range you will be very disipointed both in the look, milage, and repairs to bring it back. For an 86 in very good shape, with all of the proper and documented services, with a 90% perfect interior and body, plan on spending $65K and above. | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
New member Username: Kdross Post Number: 27 Registered: 2-2002 |
Dave: If I wanted power, then I would not have purchased my 308 QV but a Z06 Corvette instead. What I was trying to say is that I was expecting more in the way of acceleration when I drove the TR. With that said, the TR is a great car and I love the low end torque. The TR is a car that I would like to purchase in the near future, not a Porsche turbo or Viper which have a lot more power. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 164 Registered: 7-2001 |
Like a Supra | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Junior Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 101 Registered: 1-2002 |
Ken, The sad truth is that cars made in the 80's were pretty slow by today's standards, even TR's. The 348's acceleration numbers are on a par with those early TR's and the 355 greatly exceeds them. If power is what you really want, there are plenty of other cars on the market for a lot less money that can embarass a TR or most any other Ferrari for that matter. Personally, I like working the little motors in the little cars to keep 'em revved and in the power band, but if a torquey, put me in my seat kind of car was my bag, I'd buy something other than a Ferrari. Dave | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
New member Username: Kdross Post Number: 26 Registered: 2-2002 |
Michael: I did punch the car in 1st and 2nd gear so that the revs were above 4000 rpm (remember, I own a 308 which does not have power until 5K rpm). While the car was fast, I was just expecting more. Perhaps at another time and place I can drive a TR for a longer period of time and do the 50-120 mph test. | ||
| Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member Username: Man90tr Post Number: 501 Registered: 4-2001 |
Ken, if you never drove the car above 70 then you will be dissapointed. The power range is 4500 - 6800 rpms. If you floored it around 40 in 3rd gear then nothing much is going to happen until 75. 3rd gears best speed range is (75 - 102). Or try second gear from 50 to 80 mph. great acceleration. Also its not an off the mark car -- if you are expecting superior 0 - 60 get a lighter porsche. But between 50 - 130 -- hold on (but the rpms must be in the 4500 to 6800 range to open up he machine. Get a TR, you won't be dissapointed. | ||
| Russ Moore (Rem9)
Junior Member Username: Rem9 Post Number: 65 Registered: 6-2001 |
Ken, One thing that has bitten a few TR owners is the seeming lack of availability of the metric tires some of them used. I have heard horror stories of the Tire Rack even accepting tires back that didn't work out properly. Fortunately I have Goodyears on a non-metric rim. Perhaps someone out there can fill in the blanks I have left here. Certainly in terms of classic lines early and late push similar buttons. Drop dead gorgeous cars, all of them. Even though I have a red TR, I am impressed with just about every other color I have seen. In terms of value, I suppose the old addage of, buy the best condition car you can afford. I am not sure one can find a well kept early TR for 45K. That car may prove to be alot of heartaches and even more additional expense. I have communicated with someone who bought a "bargain basement" TR on the Ebay site. He was lamenting all the expenses he ran into in the first 8 months. The 12K he saved was quickly eaten away by repairs he was uncomfortable doing himself. Sadly, he would have been better off buying a better car in the first place. An economics prof I had 30 years ago at Cornell once stated a phrase I have never forgotten; "...if you want to buy the cheapest oats in town, don't be surprised if they've already been through the horse once! If you are only concerned about the ownership of this commodity, then you've accepted it's condition." Probably a little cryptic when out of context, but the general message has lingered with me over the ages and guided me on some decisions. No car is bulletproof and any car bought in perfect condition may develop a malady on day two, but what you are doing is playing the odds. Buying a prime vehicle that shows the care by the previous owner is a much safer bet than one bought on speculation and given a quick once over by someone seeking personal profit. I believe there must be a few honest folks out there selling "pre-enjoyed" vintage and exotic cars, but they are outnumbered by the weasels. Caution is advised regardless. Most deals too good to be true, especially when dealing with exotics, will lead to regret. Be very suspect of a car being sold for 15K below it's value. Check out http://www.ferrarimarketletter.com . I found this to be informative and helpful during the process of finding two of the cars in the collection. I just completed the 15K service on my car and did it myself to save a few dollars and become more informed. It's not a task for the weak at heart. Fairly straight forward but lots and lots of busy work. The cost of the replaced parts done as a preventative measure was right around 1K. This service, performed at a dealer would range between 3-6K, but I would know noting of the inner workings. Certainly not a project for every owner. A remote item may also be to check on insurance costs. In some instances the earlier car may be significantly less to insure because of it's build date. This might reflect even more savings over time. Weighing all issues and looking at a few cars, I settled on an 86 that was immaculate with low milage and a clean history. It cost a bit more than the needy example, but it was a choice I am comfortable with. Best of luck and I would also suggest contacting some other TR owners to get their impressions. Russ | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
New member Username: Kdross Post Number: 25 Registered: 2-2002 |
Last night I had the pleasure of meeting Bruce Wellington and his wonderful family. Despite the rain, I drove my 1985 308 QV up to Bruce's house. Bruce was a great host and we had a great time even though we were on a limited time schedule. While visiting Bruce, he was generous enough to let me take his 1988 1/2 TR for a drive. Bruce's car is painted in my now favorite TR color of Fly Yellow with a black interior (pictures do not do this color justice) and is equipped with a Tubi exhaust. My first impression was how big the car is overall. Being 78 inches wide makes for a lot of car. The TR sounds much better than my 308 QV at idle (much deeper) and is much more comfortable to drive. While I was driving around warming up the fluids, I was very impressed with how much low end torque the car has. It was nice to be able to leave the car in 3rd gear when turning onto another street and then accelerating up to speed. I cannot do this with my 308 QV. Once the TR was ready, I punched it and was somewhat disappointed. While the car was fast and accelerated strongly, I was expecting more. I was not pushed into my seat, the tires did not chirp, but the power was constant and plentiful. Perhaps if I would have dropped the clutch at 5K rpm and drove like I stole it there would have been more impressive acceleration and drama, but I never put any car through such punishment. Don't get me wrong, the power was great and the car was much faster than my 308 QV, but I was expecting all hell to break loose when I floored the accelerator. This maybe the result of previously driving a Porsche 911 Twin Turbo (0-60 in 3.6 sec) which appears to have warped my sense of speed. I was also unable to drive the car at speeds about 70 mph, so I was unable to do a 50-120 acceleration test which I have read is the TR's strong point. Another big surprise was how manageable the car was while driving. The size of the car is not apparent while driving it which may cause problems when maneuvering in tight spaces if you are not careful to allow enough room. This could cause problems while pulling up for gas, driving on small two lane bridges, etc. I was also impressed by how much better made the TR is when compared to my 308 QV. The overall fit and finish seemed to be much better than the 308 QV with lots of small touches to make the car more luxurious (fully carpeted truck - aka front bonnet, nicer leather, etc). The car also drove more like a European Sports Sedan in road feel than my "go kart like" 308 QV. The 308 QV seems harsh and difficult to drive when compared to the TR. The TR was also less demanding to drive than the 308. As you all know, to get any power from a 308 you have to drive it hard and to constantly shift to maintain the proper gearing. This is not necessary in the TR where you can basically select one gear and forget about shifting. Overall I am very impressed with the TR and cannot wait to get one. What is the thought of the 1985-1888 cars v. 1988 1/2 - 1991 cars? Is the price premium of about $10-$20K worth buying a later car? One thought is to get an 85-86 car with the updates for $45K-$55K and save your money. The other thought is to find a 1987-1991 car for $60K-$65K knowing that you have a car with most of the updates and have a car that is bulletproof and $50K less than a 512TR. What do you guys think? Thanks again to Bruce for being a great host. |