| Author | Message | ||
| L. (Testaroja)
Junior Member Username: Testaroja Post Number: 60 Registered: 5-2003 |
Des... you are so scary, go get your shine box. | ||
| DESperately awaiting Friday (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 5340 Registered: 8-2002 |
That's obviously because they didn't let me drive it...  | ||
| L. (Testaroja)
Junior Member Username: Testaroja Post Number: 58 Registered: 5-2003 |
Henryk and the rest, the cobra 0-100-0 in ten sec. is an "urban legend" The cobra's time of 0-100-0 is well over 14 seconds. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5493 Registered: 12-2000 |
Allan, I think there is no doubt on this board to 99.9% of us who belongs in the looney bin.  | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1934 Registered: 10-2002 |
Allan I sure you'll be able to make up that 2.5 when you add NOS and a parachute to your Murcie. Have a happy 4th! | ||
| David R. (Rodsky)
Junior Member Username: Rodsky Post Number: 110 Registered: 3-2003 |
Allan - Thanks for the picture. The road tests for the Enzo that I was referring to actually occurred in the US in Utah.. Also, I believe the sticker on the F1 was close to a $1M, so I was quoting sticker vs. sticker. Obviously you cant buy an Enzo for sticker now - but anything over $660K is either attributable to a lack of supply or high demand for a supercar that was made in limited quantities. Either way the F1 and the Enzo are very close acceleration wise. However, the Enzo handles better and has better brakes - wherever you test it. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 635 Registered: 6-2002 |
James, do you already suffer from Alzheimers disease, and constantly reminisce about Lemans? I can handle magazine racing, atleast the data is partially substantiated, but when we start analyzing which car is going to win on a race course, its time to call the Looney Bin. James, put your teeth in the jar, and have a Happy Fourth of July! | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1933 Registered: 10-2002 |
Allan Fact are facts. By def. they are neither stupid nor smart they are facts. The 2.5 0-100-0 difference between a Enzo and a Merci would cause that result at the LeMan 24 assuming the Murci finished which so far no Lambo has ever done. As for buying an Enzo for list price there are those here who have and those who still could today. That is also fact. Thomas A McLaren F1 would not beat an Enzo at LeMans today. An Enzo or a P GT2 would beat a McLaren F1 simply because of their ceramic brakes esp. as the course avez chicanes now is vrs how it was in years past. Rich It's more than one time stopping distances. In 67 John Holman wanted to use drum brakes on the GT40 as he felt that would produce shorter stopping distances. It's the ability to disipate heat time and time again which disks do better than drums and ceramic brakes do better than reg. disks. CJ Your right that a Lambo could win LeMans if their parent badged their Audi as a Lambo as they did with Bentley but it would take more than the figure you cite. Finally Allan don't dispair. VW's real super car, the new Bug, which at least one forum member will probably wind up owing will give the Enzo a run... | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 632 Registered: 6-2002 |
Oh Mark, so much hostility for a man with a car that looks like a Supra in the garage, next to the ugliest iteration of the Testicularossa available. Never have i said that the Murcielago performs better than the Enzo in any catagory other than looks. I will say that it will easily outperform any available, currently produced production Ferrari that is in the same price range. Oh look, heres a little clip from the new Autocar test of the new Gallardo: Lamborghini gathered a collection of drivers, along with a Gallardo, a 911 Turbo, a 360 Modena, and the Murcielago at Imola. With the optional sports suspension(only .25sec quicker than with the standard suspension), the Gallardo was 3.1 seconds quicker than the 911 Turbo and 4.5 seconds faster than the 360. The Murcielago was 1.5 seconds quicker than the Gallardo. As final verdict: Hugely credible Lamborghini set to scare the 360 Modena with its combination of glamour,performance,driveability and build quality.Maranello should be worried. Ferrari IS WORRIED. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1377 Registered: 11-2002 |
Lambos kick ass. No need to bicker about it.  Cheers | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 517 Registered: 6-2002 |
ROFL Allen, I laugh my ass off every time I see that pic, hilarious! I think it's the combination of the tounge and the shades. Just TOO funny for words! You're a lucky man Literally laughing out loud, I've got people here giving me the most quizical looks. Just scrolled up again, bawahhH! I love it. Keep 'em on their toes Know what the best thing is about a Diablo/Mercui and Enzo race? Nobody looses! Best! Ben. PS: Sweet SV. Those rotors stock? Insane! | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 656 Registered: 11-2002 |
I love these threads ... keep arguing, I need a laugh! Pete | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
Junior Member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 137 Registered: 4-2002 |
Allan: In what way do you feel the Murci compares favorably to the Enzo?? Certainly not in any performance category. You state that all of the Enzos were tested at the factory. Not true.....Road and Track were kindly offered the use of a private owners Enzo. That test showed a 0-60 of 3.3, 0-100 of 6.6, 1/4 mile of 11.1@133mph for the Enzo. The Murci they tested 0n 5/02 did 0-60 in 3.6, 0-100 at 8.7, and 1/4 mile 12.0 @121mph. The Enzo also handily beat the McLaren F1 which they tested years ago. I will admit that the Lambo probably beats the Ferrari in the garish category, especially those really classy SV stickers they put on the Lambo! | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 630 Registered: 6-2002 |
David that is sticker price for the Enzo, vs the value of a Mclaren F1 today. You CANNOT buy an Enzo at sticker, but in reality, the same cost as a Mclaren. The Enzos, buy the way, were all tested in Italy, by the Ferrari test drivers, on what has been noted as a slightly downhill track. Hey, i'm not argueing that the Enzo is not a great car. I love it, and would choose one anyday over a Mclaren. My arguement is only when you try to compare it to the Murcielago. Yes the picture speaks a thousand words, a special something for you. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2204 Registered: 1-2002 |
Hee-hee! I call it a draw, Allan! Every time I see that picture, I nearly cannot stop laughing!!! | ||
| David R. (Rodsky)
Junior Member Username: Rodsky Post Number: 109 Registered: 3-2003 |
Allan - The Enzo stickers at 2/3 the price of an F1 - $660K vs $1M. At a high-level they are very close in performance. R&T who you say sucks as their numbers are high - had the Enzo slightly faster than the F1 0-60, 1/4 mile, 0-100 (in other words acceleration numbers). Then looking at the other areas - braking (Enzo far better - modern technology of carbon-ceramics), handling (Enzo far better 1.01G and 73 MPH through the slalom). So in summary, modern technology, more cost effective, better braking and handling, meets worldwide emmissions standards for a lower price. F1 amazing in its day and still today. Very close. BTW - your picture speaks for itself. Both the car and the person's action. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 629 Registered: 6-2002 |
Heres one for you Dave!  | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2202 Registered: 1-2002 |
Allan, just for you:     | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 625 Registered: 6-2002 |
James that has to be the stupidest statement out of your mouth yet. I wonder if we should all consider the Enzo a failure, since all along, Ferrari has had the Mclaren F1 as its target to beat. According to all the major tests, it fails. Oh yes, Rich, go right ahead and try and post stopping distances in a 69 Galaxie, that equal that of a modern Miata. I suggest doing this right before the edge of a cliff, same speed in both cars, marking out the Miatas total footage needed. Then go do it in a Galaxy. See you in the afterlife. | ||
| rich (Dino2400)
Member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 325 Registered: 10-2001 |
For the very most high end cars, sure, brakes have improved. But I think that's its mostly their tires that give them lower stopping distances. The brake design comes in handy to prevent fading on repeated stops though. If you look back through old magazines from the 60s, you'll see that stopping distances on huge, heavy, american sedans and coupes with drum brakes were just as good as what the average car of that type has today even though the cars are lighter now. You'd think a modern little car like a Miata would have a shorter stopping distance than a '69 Galaxie, right? You'd be wrong! BTW, if you want a really intense 0-100-0 experience, hop on a motorcycle! | ||
| Craig Williams (Craigw)
Junior Member Username: Craigw Post Number: 156 Registered: 4-2002 |
Rick, that was mph, I'm in the UK, its a race car & you have no idea how fast it was. I had a TVR Griffith 500 at the time, that did 0-60 in 4 seconds and 0-100 in about 10, this thing made my car feel like a bus. | ||
| M.J. Callie (Dream_cars)
New member Username: Dream_cars Post Number: 43 Registered: 5-2003 |
James, To level the playing field, take the Enzo @ $660,000.00 run it for 24 hours then take a Murc @ $290,000.00 give it $370,000.00 worth of mods and run it for 24 hours and see who finishes first. Only reason I say this is now you have two cars of equal value racing not one car racing one that cost over 50% less. Your statement is like putting a Porsche Boxster up against a 911 turbo. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2194 Registered: 1-2002 |
Me wants a Saleen. And so does my wife!!! | ||
| thomas daniels (Castex)
New member Username: Castex Post Number: 26 Registered: 6-2003 |
James, what's really sad is that the Enzo would have it's ugly bum kicked all over by the Mclaren F1, which is now over ten years old! Rijk, I don't think TVR know what kilometres are... As far as I'm aware the champions at this discipline are Caterham, who regularly get around 11 seconds with their mental, bike-engined concoctions. I'll look it up - Autocar do this test mob-handed every year. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1932 Registered: 10-2002 |
Allan What's really sad is how slow everything is compared to the Enzo. The Murcie is 2.5 sec slower 0-100-0. If you ran both of them at LeMans for 24 the Enzo would beat the Murcie by about 3 hours or 400 miles. Sad. | ||
| Lou B (Toby91)
Junior Member Username: Toby91 Post Number: 214 Registered: 4-2001 |
Allen: I agree that R&T seems to post lower accel times. Perhaps its their policy to lift throttle at shift points. | ||
| Rijk Rietveld (Rijk365gtb4)
Junior Member Username: Rijk365gtb4 Post Number: 250 Registered: 1-2002 |
Craig Miles not kilometers Rijk | ||
| Craig Williams (Craigw)
Junior Member Username: Craigw Post Number: 154 Registered: 4-2002 |
I was once taken out in a TVR Tuscan race car which did 0-100 in 6 seconds then a further 2.5 back to 0 (the guy did this with me in it), it was like hitting a brick wall when the brakes came on, awesome. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 515 Registered: 6-2002 |
PSK- it's actually amazing to me how LITTLE technology has moved on from the F40. Or rather, how far ahead the F40 was and still is. Sure, it's got a harsher ride than an Enzo I'd bet, but between an F40LM GTE and an Enzo on just about any track, I'd rather be driving the F40! (oh yeah, and I'd bet on it too...) It's splitting hairs though, the difference between the F-cars and others is the Ferrari does 0-100-0 IN A TURN! Best! Ben | ||
| Rikky Alessi (Ralessi)
Junior Member Username: Ralessi Post Number: 217 Registered: 5-2002 |
how about Chris Parr's F40, with the upgraded turbos and brakes? | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 642 Registered: 11-2002 |
Now if I can just get my car to reach 100 mph in 11 seconds (more like 11 minutes ), and find a real strong brick wall somewhere, I might have a chance at beating the Enzo's value. But I guess survival is part of the requirements of a legitimate test ... Those sort of numbers are real impressive, anybody know how slow the F40 is in comparison? I know it could do the 0-125mph in 12 seconds or something ... but technology has moved on! Pete | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 5145 Registered: 8-2002 |
Because if it's the new 2003 Limited Edition E 55 AMG MerceDES, then it already the Viper and the Porsche, and the only thing left to compare it to was the 575. | ||
| Andrew-Phillip Goalen (Andrewg)
Junior Member Username: Andrewg Post Number: 133 Registered: 9-2002 |
Allan, I'll be doing this in the morning, take yout Lambo into the office and post what you do! (you should be way faster than my Strosek 911) | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 623 Registered: 6-2002 |
Road and Track sucks. They post the slowest times for all the cars of any magazine. All the times recorded by them in this issue are approximately 1 second slower than by any magazine. 8.6 seconds to 100mph, which is actually 104mph, in a 2900 pd, 550 hp Saleen is pitiful. Others have it in the seven second range. The Murcielago recorded time, is also approximately 1 second slower to 100mph, than the times they posted for a 6.0 Diablo. Why compare the 575M with the Mercedes, and not the Porsche and Viper? | ||
| David R. (Rodsky)
Junior Member Username: Rodsky Post Number: 102 Registered: 3-2003 |
I would think that an Enzo would be able to do better than 11.7. I think the latest tests had it 0-100 MPH at 6.6 seconds. Then it is transition and braking from 100-0. I am certain that would be much less than 5.1 seconds. Remember the Enzo has incredible brakes. It takes 109ft to stop from 60MPH (188ft from 80MPH). In comparison the Mclaren F1 was 127ft, the Saleen s7 125ft. This translates into a lower 100-0 time. HenryK - brakes make a big difference in the 0-100-0 tests. I remember a few years back that the Viper GTS and Porsche TT, were almost identical 0-100 but the Porsche had far better brakes and was the resounding winner in this test. I would put money on the Enzo over the Cobra - definitley | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 5137 Registered: 8-2002 |
Sounds like SpeedVision meets The Dating Game... Still, words to live by, i suppose... If i ever see her again, i will most certainly try my best to make sure that it won't be the last time... | ||
| Andrew-Phillip Goalen (Andrewg)
Junior Member Username: Andrewg Post Number: 130 Registered: 9-2002 |
0-100 is one thing. 100-0 is quite another... Having made an emergency stop and heard the squeall of a cheap hatchback before it ploughed into the back of my car I know what you mean far to well!!!!! | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1929 Registered: 10-2002 |
Des Never let the one you think may be the one get away without taking a shot. Always remember what Neil said. "It's better to burn out than it is to rust." | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1374 Registered: 11-2002 |
Weren't the rear brakes for the Cobras were taken from the Studebaker, along with the rear axle? Cheers | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1928 Registered: 10-2002 |
Lee It's true there's nothing like the real thing and you CAN tell. It's a certian something as you said. Henryk The new brakes are what's amazing. The Turbo Cayanne weighs over 5000 lbs but it still STOPS! In the 60ies compared to today's cars those cars had no brakes. My Ford has a much higher top speed than the Bentley that won LeMans a few week ago but racing with chicanes is now about downforce and brakes. Gurney said he had to use engine braking to haul the MK-IV down from 223 as the brakes just couldn't take it lap after lap for 24. I remember standing in the fields at night and watching the streaks of the headlights and the glowing red hot disks. 0-100 is one thing. 100-0 is quite another... | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 5132 Registered: 8-2002 |
LOL, Mr. G., i keep telling myself that you'r kidding; not about the Countessa's daughter, i'm sure you know her, but that she was the same woman i saw on Tuesday night... It's impossible... It can't be... Although, she was very exotic... Still, i think you must be joking... ...but i never really know with you... | ||
| Lee Pierce (Leepierce)
Junior Member Username: Leepierce Post Number: 149 Registered: 1-2003 |
Saw an original Cobra over the weekend. Quite a sight. There was a replica right beside it which drew most of the looks because of its color (blue), but the heart of the real one was apparent even sitting still. Quite a number for any car, in any case. Interesting to know Carol was a chicken farmer. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 855 Registered: 8-2001 |
Going 0-100-0 requires only horsepower, less weight and brakes.....and a straight line...many of the advanced design features in the Enzo would not apply. It would seem that the only thing that would matter would be the power-to-weight ratio. The weight of the Enzo is given at over 3400 pounds. If the weight of the Cobra was light enough I can see it beating the Enzo.....in a straight line ONLY!!!!! | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1371 Registered: 11-2002 |
Chicken farming explains those overalls too! Hehehe Cheers | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1927 Registered: 10-2002 |
Des Yes. Guys of my advanced age know who the chicken farmer is. For the younger generation I'm refering to Carol Shelby and his 427 Cobra. Best BTW You're right. The Contessa's daughter is a stunner. I hadn't seen her for years. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 5126 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mr. G., are you replying to Henryk's post...? Otherwise, that's really random... | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1926 Registered: 10-2002 |
That old chicken farmer said a lot of things I doubt that one was true... (The # I remember was 14) | ||
| Andrew-Phillip Goalen (Andrewg)
Junior Member Username: Andrewg Post Number: 125 Registered: 9-2002 |
Des if you can get to Chester by 8am GMT your welcome along for the ride!! | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 5123 Registered: 8-2002 |
LOL, Andrew...! Let us know how it goes... Do you need someone to tag along with a stop watch...? | ||
| Andrew-Phillip Goalen (Andrewg)
Junior Member Username: Andrewg Post Number: 124 Registered: 9-2002 |
Somehing to try on my journey into work in the morning!!! TRossa 400i or 964? may even post a vid | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 5121 Registered: 8-2002 |
LOL... Damn, you have a boring life... How do you deal with yourself...? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1925 Registered: 10-2002 |
No the Contessa took me for a ride... | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 852 Registered: 8-2001 |
I recall, many years ago, they where stating that a Cobra could do 0-100-0 in 10 seconds. It just stuck in my mind. Am I right? | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 5119 Registered: 8-2002 |
Are you reading the article over and over like me, too...? This car ROCKS...! | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1924 Registered: 10-2002 |
Enzo 11.7 |