| Author |
Message |
david handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1154
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 5:04 pm: | |
I always thought the AC was fine in my 78 308 GTS for here in Seattle, but I have to admit the 328 is much better. The difference seems to be in the fan, it is much more powerful in the 328. |
Al Johnson (Bigal)
Junior Member
Username: Bigal
Post Number: 110
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 4:03 pm: | |
Stephen, thank ya' kindly! Thats a great shot of your car. I just love the euro!
Steven, you got just under a 1,000 on me. My serial# is 57987.
As far as the AC. Mine is either on or off. The temperature knob doesn't seem to do much. I very recently had it serviced and everything checked out ok. Go figure. |
Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member
Username: Enjoythemusic
Post Number: 521
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 3:52 pm: | |
Peter,
You make excellent points. The 308's visuals and "old school interior" actually are more preferred (to me) than the 328. PLUS fixing the bits on the 308 are very easy and usually less expensive than a 328. The 308 seems more masculine with the mechanical switches and levels than the electronics of the 328. In fact quite a few people are in awe (happily) of the 308's interior MECHANICALS as they appear more sports car than luxury car. This might also be part of the reason i love Patek Philippe mechcnical watches over the more modern "digital perfection" Quartz counterpart.
Of course i'd trade it in for a Enzo in a heartbeat :-)
Enjoy the Drive,
Steven R. Rochlin
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peter james moran (Pjm)
Junior Member
Username: Pjm
Post Number: 59
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 2:06 pm: | |
Hmmm... I can't support the comments about 308's AC. The AC in my 85 QV great cools the interior very nicely even with the top off! I'd even describe the settings on the switches as: Off, cold, meatlocker and freezer. The fan is a bit loud though. Brakes are better in a 328 as well as a bit more power. I went with a 308 for it's looks and prefer the 308's old school interior.
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Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member
Username: Enjoythemusic
Post Number: 520
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 1:04 pm: | |
Al,
58939 Have been researching... seems to be one of the last 10 GTS QV built and the latest model within the USA. MANY thanks for the compliment on the engine bay. She IS a daily driver BTW with about 1k miles a month driving.
Hmmm... nice day out there today. Time for a drive to the Post Office, the tanning salon and then grocery shopping. YUP, grocery shopping in the Ferrari...
Enjoy the Drive... and the Music ("That's Amore'" right now),
Steven R. Rochlin
"(In Maranello where love is king
When boy meets car here's what they say)
When the car hits your eye like a big pizza pie
That's amore
When the Ferrari seems to shine like you've had too much wine
That's amore
The engine will ring ting-a-ling-a-ling, ting-a-ling-a-ling
And you'll sing "Vita bella"
Hearts will play tippy-tippy-tay, tippy-tippy-tay
Like a gay tarantella
When the car make you drool just like a pasta fagiole
That's amore
When you drive down the street with a Ferrari at your feet
You're in love
When you're driving in a dream but you know you're not
Dreaming signore
Scuzza me, but you see, back in old Maranello
That's amore..."
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Stephen A. Thompson, II (Sat4re)
New member
Username: Sat4re
Post Number: 38
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 12:35 pm: | |
Al,
My serial# is 54609. According to the Ferrari owner's site, a late model '84, though I have every piece of paperwork (sales receipts, maintenance records, state inspection sign-offs, title copies, etc.) on this car since it was first purchased, all of which list it as an '85. It doesn't really matter since the '84 and '85 QV's are identical cars. By the way, that's a beautiful car you have!
ST |
Al Johnson (Bigal)
Junior Member
Username: Bigal
Post Number: 108
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 7:23 am: | |
Stephen T. and Steven R.,
What are the serial numbers of your cars? I'm curious how close they are to mine.
Steven R,
Man, great looking engine bay. |
Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 626
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 10:26 pm: | |
Re: a/c
The a/c in my 84 308 sucked, so did the 87 328. The 85 308 was marginal. My 89 328 has the best I've had, including the 94 348 I had. Never understood this, but different cars of the same year and model had different a/c performqnce. Frankly, if it were up to me, I would order cars with a/c delete anyway if available.
Dave |
Stephen A. Thompson, II (Sat4re)
New member
Username: Sat4re
Post Number: 37
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 8:59 pm: | |
I have a Euro '85 308 QV. Check-out the picture in my profile. I specifically sought-out this model. I absolutely love it! In my opinion, it offers the purest form of the 308-328 series of cars. Incredibly beautiful!!! |
Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member
Username: Enjoythemusic
Post Number: 518
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 2:11 pm: | |
Hi Everyone,
My situation may be a bit "unique" as in the garage is a EURO model and one of the very last 308QV (GTS) ever built. Cooling has never been an issue so far. Brakes... have EBC Green Stuff Kevlar composites and the braking seem more than adequate. The rims on the car here are by Etiole, not stock so i have more rubber that meets the road. As for HP, the EURO 308 has more than US version and also LESS overall weight than a US QV. Body style between the 308 and 328 is a personal preference, though enjoy the mechanicals over electric as they are easier to (and generally MUCH cheaper) to fix. Oh, and the uro has a nice 3D prancing horse on the front :-)
Also, the EURO here has no cat. conv. :-)
Will never fool myself in saying the Euro 308QV is "better" than a 328. They are simply different. If i wanted more HP there are plenty of mods. Same goes for "better" brakes. Parts appear to be plentiful either way you go. TRUE upgrade would be going to a 348/TR/etc.
From later 308 to 328 status there are relatively minor "upgrades" in the scheme of things IMHO. Heck, the DRIVER behind the wheel is the one that can truly make a "big difference" between these two on the track. Of course in the end what REALLY matters is that YOU...
Enjoy th Drive,
Steven R. Rochlin
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Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jimpo1
Post Number: 2007
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 2:07 pm: | |
If a 328 has better AC than a 308, the AC on the 308 must REALLY suck! |
alberto bavai (Abavai)
Junior Member
Username: Abavai
Post Number: 85
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 2:05 pm: | |
Ken, the picture of your profile is a the most beautiful than i have seen it. |
Ken Ross (Kdross)
Member
Username: Kdross
Post Number: 390
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 1:41 pm: | |
I purchase my 308QV because it was the car to have when I was a kid (the lambo Countach was also considered a cool car for us kids then too). Since I always wanted a 308QV, I bought one. As to the 308 v 328 debated, it is all personal. I like the styling of the 308QV and the cool interior flip switchs, but someone else may like the 328 better. I do admit that I wish the 308QV had more power, but that is another debate.
As to the differences, this is what I understand the main differences to be.
1. 328 has better brakes
2. 328 has better A/C
3. 328 has better cooling for the engine
4. 328 has a tad more power over a 308QV
5. Better build quality with a higher quality of materials used.
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Al Johnson (Bigal)
Junior Member
Username: Bigal
Post Number: 106
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 11:42 am: | |
I never considered a 328 for the looks alone. For that matter none of the rounded off look cars does for anything for me either. I think the new Audis and Nissan Zs look horrible. I love the look of the euro 308 with small bumpers, passing lights and the spolier. I too kind of liked the retro look of the switches in the 308 versus the plastic in 328s. I got my 308 from the orginial owner who purchased it new in Italy in '85. |
alberto bavai (Abavai)
Junior Member
Username: Abavai
Post Number: 82
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 5:27 am: | |
The ferrari 328 is the most beautiful ferrari of the 80. |
Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member
Username: Me_k
Post Number: 597
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 10:18 pm: | |
Yeah, the carb cars sound cool, but they rarely run the way they should...unlees they're given constant attention....there is a reason they stopped putting carbs on cars 25 years ago....it's a lot like prefering a typewriter to a computer, they sound cool but they're time is past unless you enjoy tinkering and the feel of days gone bye. I guess the only comparison would be 328 to QV and i think it's about a wash. Buy the one you like better. JMO |
david handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1147
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 1:48 pm: | |
Sure Don, whatever you say... :-) Our local club has done numerous dyno runs with our cars (from 330's right up to 456's and 550's) and the numbers almost always coincide with the factory ratings once you adjust by about 15%-17% for driveline loss. The typical range is within 3% of factory almost everytime. The exceptions are usually the carb cars (like my previous 308). They invariably are WAY down on power, until the shop finds the problems. Usually faulty ignition advancers and lean jetting. Mine had the plugs gapped too small and lean jetting. Once corrected, my car jumped to a corrected (at the crank) reading of 214 hp from a baseline of 184hp. |
DGS (Dgs)
Junior Member
Username: Dgs
Post Number: 144
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 11:19 am: | |
The 328's engine has some upgraded bearings, but the QV has those too.
I think the "improvements" to the cooling and aircon mostly relate to the different nose: The airflow through the radiators is more direct on a 328, with less resistance. (Forward grill and large center louvres (versus fender mounted louvres).)
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Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member
Username: Yelcab1
Post Number: 581
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 10:22 am: | |
I have my carbs all dialed in, and with the Crane Cams in place, they are no longer problematic. Enjoy the sound, the smell, and the knock in the back everytime I step on the gas. I live in California so not even a choke is required. Start up is pretty simple, turn the key on for 10 seconds, pump the gas twice, crank it up, feather the gas for 5 seconds, and it just idles |
Mark (Study)
Member
Username: Study
Post Number: 545
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 10:11 am: | |
So does anyone know more about the upgrades in 328? These seem to be the main points so far.
1. Cooling system
2. electronics
3. air conditioning (did they tweak that also?) |
Don Norton (Litig8r)
Junior Member
Username: Litig8r
Post Number: 190
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 9:16 am: | |
Apples and oranges comparing actual dyno #'s to manufacturer ratings. You can't draw a conclusion that way. |
david handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1145
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 12:23 am: | |
Do understand that not all carb 308's are equal. 75-77 made 240hp, 78-79 only made 205hp (confirmed with my 78 on the dyno). There were significant changes to carb jetting, cam profiles and emission controls on the 78-79 cars. |
Don Norton (Litig8r)
Junior Member
Username: Litig8r
Post Number: 189
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 10:12 pm: | |
I'm biased because I have one, but I like the carb 308's. They're kind of finicky - you have to do some pedal pumping to start it and until it warms up. It gets fuel starved in right hand corners, and it'll spit and cough from time to time and pop on hard deceleration. But I think that's part of the charm, it seems like a more vintage and special car just because of those "faults".
And the engine sound at full blast is incredible with the carb cars. |
stu cordova (Balataboy)
Member
Username: Balataboy
Post Number: 464
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 7:10 pm: | |
It's soooo personal!
Based just on looks alone, I like the 328 over a US 308, but I prefer a Euro 308QV over all. I specificaly sought out a Euro QV when I decided to buy, as they are, IMHO, the best looking of all the 3X8's.
I can't speak to performance differences, as all I've owned is my QV, but with some mods - it ain't all that bad! |
DGS (Dgs)
Junior Member
Username: Dgs
Post Number: 140
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 6:36 pm: | |
The carb'd 308s reportedly have more power than the injected 308s, but are more problematic for maintenance.
Many of the refinements (bearing seals, etc) on the 328's engine are also found on the QV. The 328 has 200cc more displacement, and runs higher compression than the earlier 308s.
The later 328s (late '88 and '89) had a number of suspension upgrades, but have an early ABS system. (I don't really like the '80s ABS systems.)
On the QV/328 choice, it's a matter of taste. Many people prefer the nose of the 308. I much prefer the 328's interior (from the GTO). I've never seen a 308 that didn't have one of those black switch top disks knocked off. The 328's switches don't catch on your sleeve.
When I bought (late '99), the 328 wasn't that much more expensive.
But the clincher for me was that the 328 has 1/2 inch more headroom. I find the 328 quite comfortable with the top on.
Oh, yes: The 328 uses "normal" tires on 16" rims, rather than the 308's metric rims. |
L. (Testaroja)
New member
Username: Testaroja
Post Number: 45
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 6:24 pm: | |
I drove a 308 and then bought a 328, for me the 328 its the best one to have and run, but I do like the looks of the 308 better but I like best the 328's interior. For me the 328 blows wawy the 308QV |
Crawford White (Crawford)
Junior Member
Username: Crawford
Post Number: 113
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 6:16 pm: | |
I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned how slow the 308 'power' windows are...
I think the euro 308's look great; the rubber baby bumpers are a little less obtrusive. I also think the front spoilers look the best - they're actually between the size of a US and the optional "euro" spoiler available on 'mercun cars.
The true euro spoilers are metal, not fiberglass, making them more durable. |
Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 625
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 6:07 pm: | |
OK. I'll weigh in. I like 308's, had 3 of them (84 GTS, 77 GTB, 85 GTB). I like 328's too, had an 87 GTS and now an 89 GTB. Here's some thoughts..
For outright coolness, a carb 308 cannot be beat. However, they are more work to drive than the later cars and if reliability/maintenance is important, their age works against them. However, for someone looking for a classic 308/328 shape and don't plan to drive a whole lot (some is neceessary) it's hard to argue with the carb models.
The QV's had enough changes to make them better overall cars with some of the early car's weaknesses corrected. They have lighter controls, a compliant ride and I do like the interior over the 328's even though it is clearly quite dated. The motor is more flexible than the carbs and considerably more power than the 2 valve FI cars, but at the top end not much different from the carb cars. For comfort and "nice driver" I really liked the 85 GTB.
I had the 84 GTS and 87 GTS together for about a month. The 328's power was noticeably greater and the motor more flexible. 328's have taller gears than QV's and this makes some of the comparison hard to figure. The suspension did not feel greatly different. However, over the years and miles, the better build quality of the 328 really shown through, especially concerning small things and the interior held up much better. Both these cars had about 30K on them when I bought them, so that was not an issue.
More recently, I had the 85 GTB and 89 GTB together for about 8 months so really got to compare. 89's have updated suspension and now I found these cars felt completely different. The handling of the 308 felt slow and old (but still good) by comparison. On tracks, I can especially feel the difference.
Getting back to your main point, here is where I think 328's made the biggest improvements, regardless of year..
Cooling system no longer marginal and more reliable
Electrical system much better. 308's have weak electrics, 328 seems to be bullet proof
Brakes are stronger and have better feel plus 308's brakes were often scary until warmed up. Boosters and master cylinders can fail.
Ignition system simpler, more modern (by 80's standards) and less prone to problems plus parts can still be had.
Mechanics have told me that they can see the better quality construction when working on them and my experience as well as others is that they hold up better over time. In my experience, the 328's cost less to own in the long run.
It is now much easier to find a quality 328 I think partly because they are newer and partly because they are better built.
Having said all this, I plan to keep the 328 until I'm dead but I could be easily tempted to add a real nice fiberglass 308 to my garage.
Dave |
Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi12
Post Number: 1481
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 3:05 pm: | |
A couple remarks in response to what has been said here already:
I think the horsey on the 328 ought to be replaced with a 'regular' one like from a 348 etc. The 328 horse is flat and ugly. Other than that I love that front (hey, the US 308 doesn't even have a horse!).
Since so many seem to like the retro look of the 308 switches: Try to replace them when one breaks! Happened to me and I couldn't find a replacement at all. Ended up concocting something with original parts, Radio shack parts and lots of epoxy. Not ideal. |
david handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1143
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 2:20 pm: | |
Mark,
I had a carb 78 308 GTS and now have a 87 328 GTS.
I think the fairer comparison would be to a QV, but here are my thoughts: I personally like the looks of the 308 better, especially from the front, surprisingly, I like the back of the 328 better. The front of the 328 looks too blunt to me. Yes, the switch gear takes a little getting used to, but let's face it, the 308 switch gear is very dated 60's-70's look. The overall driving experience is much nicer (my 308 had QV wheels and started out to me as a 15k miles "garage queen"); in the 328, the steering is lighter, brakes stronger, and considerably more powerful (obviously much closer in power when comparing to QV).
The biggest two things that pushed me to get a 328 is that many 308 parts are getting harder to find (esp. some of the interior bits) and the inventory of nice (original) 308's are few and far between. 328 selection is much better, but still hard work to find a nice one. |
sindo rodil (308qv_miami)
Junior Member
Username: 308qv_miami
Post Number: 54
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 2:07 pm: | |
I too almost bought a 328 but preferred the body and iterior switches on my qv for a more retro look. 328 switches look kind of cheap.
|
Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Member
Username: Tillman
Post Number: 752
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 1:50 pm: | |
I've never driven a QV, but I had the opportunity to run a GTSi back to back with my 328. The main thing I noticed is that the brakes on the 328 were much better, and that the GTSi felt less directly connected to the road. Both could have been related to the tires on the car. All in all, I would probably be just as happy with a 308.
I actually had a similar conversation with a local owner-to-be and recommended the 308 over a 328. The 328 is a better car, but it's probably not worth the price difference. |
Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member
Username: Mcharness
Post Number: 734
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 1:41 pm: | |
I got the 308 because it was the body style I wanted. Yes, the 328's are a little faster than my QV, but I've never regretted the decision. I've had less problems with my 1984 308QV than my neighbor has had with his 1987 328, but then again I drive mine more than he does and Ferraris do like to be driven.
Interestingly enough, my neighbor had wanted to get a 308QV, but the dealer sold the one he'd been looking at the day before he went down with check in hand. They had a 328 on the floor at the time so that's what he got instead. But he likes the contrast of the black grilles of the 308QV. If you "euro" your 308 bumper(s) -- I've done that on the front of mine but not the rear -- then it really looks even better.
If you look at the profiles, Andreas and I have both "GTBished" our GTS's, by changing the louvers and painting the targa body color. That's another neat customization you can do.
I see that Andreas also painted his front bumper. That probably would also look even better if you pushed it in closer to the body, euro style.
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Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi12
Post Number: 1480
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 11:55 am: | |
At the risk of upsetting the 328 owners, you don't give up that much if you compare it to a QV. About 30 HP and a more refined interior for certain, but otherwise not too much. Personally I like the 328 better for its nicer looks, but you said, that's quite the opposite with you.
Forza had a buyer's guide on the 328 as well as the 308 series and said, that the "seat of the pants can't tell the difference of a QV to a 328" and that you basically got a similar car for a good chunk of money less. OTOH they also said, that if you have that extra cash, you should go for the 328 as it is a few years younger and has had over 1,400 changes in all over the QV.
I went for the QV, but am not so sure anymore that was the best decision. Also with a 328 you're a lot more unique at Ferrari events. There are rarely any 328 (just like rarely any GT4), but a ton of 308s.
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Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member
Username: Tork1966
Post Number: 782
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 11:53 am: | |
I agree with you Mark. I too do not care for the 328 switches and like the front and rear of the 308 better than the 328. I think that if you put a TUBI on your 308, you will be sacrificing very little in terms of performance. I would actually never give up the sound of my carbed 308 (vs. the QV) |
Mark (Study)
Member
Username: Study
Post Number: 543
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 11:30 am: | |
I've always liked the pointed nose and switches on the 308
How much on advancement and car improvements would you be giving up if you bought a 308 QV instead of a 328? |