| Author |
Message |
Lee Sanders (Lsand007)
New member
Username: Lsand007
Post Number: 7
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 6:51 am: | |
I think Terry nailed it. It depends on the rarity of the car. The mass-produced cars will never be collector's items. So if you have a mass-produced car, put on the best parts for the money.
If you have a car of limited production (Boxers and older), non-stock parts tend to reduce the value. At resale time, most buyers will pay premium for original, non-modified cars. They will also pay more for proper documentation showing the preservation of originality.
My 2 cents.
Lee |
Peter B. (Gts308qv)
Junior Member
Username: Gts308qv
Post Number: 193
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 5:16 am: | |
I am big on originality but it has many faces. My rebuilt brakes are non-Ferrari and work better. Waterpump has a superior USA made seal and Japanese bearings. New heater hoses by are made by Goodyear. I put Dayco cam belts on it. If it makes the car perform for less than overinflated Ferrari parts, go for it. BUT, when it comes to appearance items I prefer an original unmolested Ferrari. Everyone has different taste and I respect that, but shudder when I see pictures of 308's with color coded bumpers, mirrors and removable roof, dickie looking 18" wheels with rubberband tyres that are better suited to a rice burner. Ferrari has unbeatable charm and style when they look original. As mentioned in another post, these 308 and onward Ferrari are not collectible, but the ones that will hold their value are "original" well maintained, lower mileage cars (fact). Bret, Edward and others in FC have made non original improvements to their F cars, but they still look original in style & outward appearance. Ferrari are not that common a sight on the road that they need tastless non original customising to look different from the other dozen in the supermarket parking lot! |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 2660
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 11:41 pm: | |
Patrick, This is what this site is all about. Many DIUs log on here and do the work themselves. Also there are those parts places mentioned here that offer the same quality parts at 1/3 of the Ferrari price. Ask your dealer and he will tell you to use only orig. Ferrari parts and "PLEASE" let him install them. Then prepare yourself for a heart attack. A good quality part can be purchased at much lower prices if you look around as suggested here on the F.C.. If you are a DIU better yet. |
Dane Sander (Dane_sander)
New member
Username: Dane_sander
Post Number: 7
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2002 - 9:48 pm: | |
I agree with Terry's assessment of the current value of 308's and newer. However, what will a nice 308 be worth in 30 years? I just purchased a '77 308GTB with a Tubi exhaust. Yes, not TOTALLY original but not a big ding (actually, quite small) at a competition.
My question is, when/if will the 70's become classics? I think alot depends on the amount made.
Your opinions, please. |
Modified348ts (Modman)
Junior Member
Username: Modman
Post Number: 158
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2002 - 3:06 am: | |
How important for modern day cars, real easy, not important at all, why, cars these days are made to be disposable. If they weren't, car dealerships would not be selling thousands per day. I work on cars all day long of all makes of vehicles and the quality is snap together with lots of plastic and you'd have to spend a ton of money to get a high quality vehicle. A dollar saved on a car from an manufacturer is like saving millions of dollars per year on manufacturing, it's simple business.. The only thing better is the mechanics of some makes and then some, but strength is not really there... A classic in reality is when cars were first made and then became legendary for it's name, most of the modern cars made these days won't become classics, more like relics in a wrecking yard...a car becomes classic to you when you become a grandpa. Modern day cars are mass produced, why? because of the mighty dollar!!!! I wouldn't pay and extra 1/4 million dollar more for the same car because it is #3 of 10. It's just more money for the producer, I'll make mine #1 of 1 and do it myself.... I love cars but they don't last forever in the real world....aarrrggghhh... Peace... |
Jack (Gilles27)
Junior Member
Username: Gilles27
Post Number: 140
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 9:27 pm: | |
I used to have a non-stock, '65 Mustang convertible. It was the perfect blend of original aesthetics and modern mechanics. I think as our Ferraris get older, the idea of non-original replacements will filter in more readily. It wouldn't surprise me to see a surge in this area, especially for those 70's & 80's "finicky" models. |
Ken (Allyn)
Member
Username: Allyn
Post Number: 359
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 9:21 pm: | |
This is a subject close to my heart. A museum piece needs to be original. If your car is a statue of a car and up on a pedestal, keep it original. 99% of us drive our cars as well as drool on them. We like them to get us to where we're going and get us home again. This happens a lot more frequently when you put in parts that actually work. As my car, a Lotus Europa, is a testement to The Dark Prince Lucas, I have no compunction about putting in replacement parts that actually work. I expect Ferrari owners are in the same boat especially in the area of water pumps, ignition systems and numerous other areas. Be able to drive your car with confidence! Put in parts that work! Have fun!! The worst thing is to have the enjoyment of driving your car ruined by the fear that something is about to break. |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
New member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 15
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 9:16 pm: | |
I am currently in the market for a '76 or '77 308 GTB. If I can find a car that has non-original but upgraded ignition, water pump, electric windows, radiator fans, A/C system, ect. ect. I would consider it a big bonus. I'm not saying I would pay a ton more for it, but given a choice between a totally original car and one that has had these types of upgrades at the same or even a slightly higher price, I'll take the upgraded car. Why? I want a car to drive and enjoy, not just wipe with a cloth diaper in a climate controlled garage while I track how much its worth.
Any 308, 328, TR, 348, 355, 360 or other mass produced Ferrari has no real collector car value. I think they are rare enough to help fend off permanent depreciation (unlike a toyota which at some point may bottom out at $500, a Ferrari may bottom at $20K), but they are never going to be worth huge money as collector pieces. Just ask someone who paid $80K for a 308 in 1990.
Keep the original parts, put on better quality aftermarket stuff. Drive the wheels off it.
Terry |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Junior Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 116
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 9:14 pm: | |
ALWAYS buy better parts when they are available. You will pay less and get more. If someone wants to keep his Ferrari "stock" then stick with the visible parts like the console switches. You can still win a concours with a GM heater control valve or a VW fan switch. I have yet to see a judge require you to take your door apart to see if it's a "real" Ferrari part that is making the locks go up and down. They are just going to see if it works then move on. Do what is best for your car and your wallet. |
BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2435
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 8:54 pm: | |
I'll never sell my car because I wont have to financially and it doesn't make sense considering the amount of money and time going into it, and what I would get for it. If I was going to sell I would sell it in it's mod state with all the original parts on the side, so it could be stock again if someone wanted. I would consider a car that had been worked on, you can save a lot in buying a worked car if you have intentions of doing so later on. |
Patrick S. Perry (Psp1)
Junior Member
Username: Psp1
Post Number: 71
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 8:35 pm: | |
Thanks for the input - for my car, I don't care if the box the part comes in has a "horsey" on it. On the other hand, I don't think we want the "Pantera syndrome", where EVERY car has been customized.
OK, here's a corollary to the original question - would you buy a car that had been modified as discussed here? If you are selling your car, would you change it back before offering it for sale? What would the result of a dealer prepurchase inspection be - considering how they typically overplay any faults? |
BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2434
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 7:30 pm: | |
Forget about originality in a mass produced Ferrari. Anyone here who thinks keeping any of them original to a T is not looking at the big picture. Sure, keep all the old stuff you change over (injection system, ignition system, cat, pistons, etc). Like the things that are noticeably not stock any longer should be kept. But something like a bearing, wire, hoses, etc forget about Ferrari. I get as much as possible at the local places. The parts are always better made anyways. If something is shot and you want to change it over just throw it out. |
Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Junior Member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 108
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 7:21 pm: | |
Patrick,
The reason your coil costs so much is that it comes in a box with a horsey on it. I think the god of originality may have too much power. I would put in my cars anything that would help with the troublesome and/or expensive parts. Of course, I'm not stupid and would save the originals for the next owner who might care more than me. Last year, at my mechanics shop, I saw him installing an electronic ignition system on a SWB California. The owner likes to drive the car-alot. If he doesn't care, why should I? I see nothing wrong with helping the cooling, ignition, brakes and safety items, like fuel lines and brake lines, especially on old cars. With newer cars, I don't think any magic comes in the boxes with horseys. In fact, Ferrari used off the shelf parts wherever they could to save development costs.
Dave |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1170
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 7:13 pm: | |
My 308 Has an aftermarket complete ignition system and my own timing belt system that consists of all the cam and drive pulleys and idler/tensioner and timing belts. It also has aftermarket power window motors {no better} and power door locks {work great}. Any older car can benefit from newer technology and make it a better performer and add to it's dependability. |
Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member
Username: Fred
Post Number: 435
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 5:46 pm: | |
I have no problem getting another part if it will do the same job, sometimes even better than a Ferrari part and cheaper to boot! |
Patrick S. Perry (Psp1)
Junior Member
Username: Psp1
Post Number: 70
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 5:13 pm: | |
Proper maintenance is one of the biggest concerns that posters have expressed here - a close second is the relative unreliability of a number of the basic systems that were designed into the cars. Timing belts, electric window motors, motorized seat belts, ignition systems, etc. have all been discussed here with alternatives offered to fix the problem - but here's the big question - do you feel comfortable putting a part in your car that wasn't originally designed for your car? I'm not necessarily talking about performance upgrades, but reliability upgrades that are cheaper than getting a replacement "original" part.
This question hit me this weekend when a neighbor asked me to help with a tuneup on an older Mustang. I had just written a check to the credit card company for a replacement coil for my TR - $335 - and the receipt for his coil was sitting on the workbench - $28! What was it about the TR coil that made it cost 12X more - could I fabricate a replacement coil that would function identically (or better!) for a fraction of the price? As an added incentive, Magneti Marelli is going to stop production soon on these coils, so the price and availability is going to get worse instead of better.
How important is it to keep your car true to its original engineering? Obviously this question is not aimed at the Concours contestants, but more at the hands-on enthusiasts who enjoy preserving and maintaining their cars. |
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