| Author | Message | ||
| Doug meredith (Dougm)
Member Username: Dougm Post Number: 342 Registered: 2-2001 |
I think maint. schedules on all cars are set up on far shorter intervals than needed to protect the Mfg. They put in a time frame, be it Ferrari or Honda, that they know they are virtually 100% safe with. If they put double the miles and years on there, then there will probably be a higher chance of failure and they don't want customers complaining that they followed the intervals to the day and their belt broke. I would be a little more skeptical of cars that sit for a long period of time. I have a friend with a 225,000 mile '94 Jeep Cherokee with the original timing belt/water pump, spark plugs etc...All he ever did was oil, tires and brakes. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Intermediate Member Username: Ross Post Number: 1301 Registered: 3-2002 |
david, you just rebutted your own statement. i will get the belts changed sometime in the near future, but i have to be convinced that the guy doing it really knows his way around and cares enough about me and the car to do it right. as blasphemous as it may sound, the number of ferrari mechanics that fit that description is pretty small, and most of them work at maranello....btw, i am also not 'leaving it to the next owner' since i never plan to sell the car, so the delay is just me being cautious (in a perverse way i suppose) and a little cheap.... | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1176 Registered: 5-2001 |
James, Right you are! I have a 91 Accord that I have owned for the past 6-7 years. Honda has service intervals of 15k miles for a minor service, then a major at 30k. If you study the service manual you see that all they really do at the 15k is change fluids, which they skip at the 30k. So I just have the 30k done and have them change the fluids too, this way I can skip the 15k minor. I have no idea why I am so loyal to my local Honda dealer. The last time they serviced my car I did a quick inspection of their work when I got home and found they forgot to attach a ground strap (hardware missing or I would have fixed it myself), did not replace the fuel filter, and didn't wash my car as promised. I returned a couple days later to correct the ommissions, and they forgot to wash the car again. Annoying since they make you sign a "liability waiver" in order to get the "free car wash"... which I never got TWICE. | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 658 Registered: 6-2002 |
David - I guess there are three things not to talk about at a cocktail party: "Religion, politics, and timing belts." I have made financial arrangements for my unborn grandchildren to have a major done on my cars. It won't happen during these two generations. My kids are 16, 12, and 11-years old. I believe that the WSM and owner's manual call for a belt change at 30k or 5 years for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the financial viability of the dealership network. I suspect that Honda and Toyota dealers are not happy campers selling cars that do not require service EVER! My understanding is that much of a dealer's revenue comes from the service bay. Sure, belts fail. But look at the overall revenue generated by preventing something from happening versus its happening. I, for one, believe that these two curves should cross somewhat closer to the minima. Jim S. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1172 Registered: 5-2001 |
James, All kidding a side, I agree the timing belt thread is pretty tired for all....Why go there again? Bottom line there are these points: 1) Factory recommended replacement interval 2) Dealer recommended replacement interval (sooner) 3) Cheapskate replacement interval...don't change, leave it for the next owner... :-) 4) Over kill, replace every three years, regardless. 5) Something in between, perhaps changing every 6-7 years.... 6) By mileage, does anyone drive enough for this to happen??? (I'm trying...as I drive 1k miles per month on my 328) | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 656 Registered: 6-2002 |
Ross - I like your approach; "If it ain't broken, don't fix it." David Handa, "Question authority." Or is it, "Don't question dogma." Either way, I believe Ross and J Thomas have it right. The car is running fine. I would wait until there is another compelling reason to pull the engine, or when 30,000 miles are traveled. And I would not be too quick to criticize Ross for his observation that "...unintended consequences..." do occur. Would you like to open a thread asking for everyone's experience concerning the unintended consequences of Ferrari service by qualified mechanics? As you can tell, I am on the other side of the belt issue. As mentioned in previous threads, $22,000 later, I have new belts on two cars. We can do a worst-case/best-case logic tree on this, but I, for one, question the need to change belts on low mileage cars. Jim S. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1170 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ross, You are delaying/neglecting service on your car because the mechanic may somehow make things worse??? Dude, you definately have "issues"...in the mean time, your current "issue" is that you have a grenade in your hand with the pin pulled, just don't let go of the "spoon".... :-) Sorry, but you knew you had it coming to admit to to this list of having an 11 yo car with the original timing belts... :-) | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1966 Registered: 10-2002 |
J I think one of our posters Shawn Harris is an authorized dealer near Salt Lake. Moab whould be a great place to drive those cars. I would change those belts and have a major service done on a car that has sat for that long. A timing belt went on my TR and it was a 42K warentee claim. I'd also replace tires that had sat for that long esp. if they weren't moved and took a flat spot set. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Intermediate Member Username: Ross Post Number: 1299 Registered: 3-2002 |
i have a 92 512tr, bought it 3 years ago with 10k miles and it now has about 14k and have not yet replaced the belts. i know that i should, and have received plenty of advice from the board in this direction. i will get around to it when/if there are other things that need sorting, so it can all be done at the same time. my concern is more that when the mechanic puts the whole thing back together that he will inadvertently mess something else up, and i'll have new belts but some other issue that gives me heartburn. may b irrational but thats my reasoning for the moment. i think the 512tr is a really robust car with surprising build quality, and i have driven it hard (although less often than i would like). so far i have only spent money on routine oil changes, a couple of trunk struts, a new solenoid for the glove compartment, and rear light bulb. period. as i understand it, the belts came from 2 manufacturers, and the ones used on the tr were not great and prone to breaking early, but the factory then changed suppliers for the 512tr, and these belts do not break as often or at all. this may be a myth but worth asking the question from one of the mechanics on the board. i love this car so much i have been tempted to buy another one, just so that i could have a different color ! so i applaud your choice ! | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2717 Registered: 2-2001 |
I have 2 512TR, its my favorite road Ferrari. Serious power  Your shop should be able to handle all the work on the car. Ive had to replace the circuit board on mine. You have to be careful with the power delivery cus its a lot of power for the trans, I already exploded 1 transmission but then again I track mine constantly. Have fun | ||
| Glen C Winters (Wildwarrior)
New member Username: Wildwarrior Post Number: 23 Registered: 3-2003 |
You will love the 512 ,I would do the service if it were me.You will bend valves, and worse if the cam belts break.I think I know this car she is red & the current owner never had her registered in CA. Also don,t forget about the seat belt re-call. Glen | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 4061 Registered: 9-2001 |
call JRV, he might take the trip | ||
| jthomas (Jthomas)
New member Username: Jthomas Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2002 |
Thanks for all of the input!!! I live in a little hole in the wall town in northern New Mexico (near the Four Corners). I currently own a 2001 360 Spider and sometime tomorrow this 1992 512TR. I am about 425 Miles from Denver and about 800 Miles from Los Angeles and it is a pain in the @$$ to have my F-Car transported to the Big City to get work done. Is there anyone out there that you might know that is an F-Car mechanic that I could hire to fly into my town to do the Timing Belts when I get ready and to do any necessary service on the 360????? I own a Chevy Dealership that has a complete shop that they could work out of to do the repairs. The 512TR is being purchased from a private party in a city that does not have an F-Car shop so I do not have any leverage on getting the belts done by the seller J Thomas | ||
| Peter (Bubba)
Member Username: Bubba Post Number: 495 Registered: 5-2002 |
J, I had an alternator belt snap off during a drive. The car ran fine and got me home, but I called the tow truck the next day to take it to the mechanic just to be safe. Got it fixed for like $50 and all was well. Have fun! The 512TR is one hell of a car to drive and corners quite well! Awesome torque and sound too! | ||
| Lou B (Toby91)
Junior Member Username: Toby91 Post Number: 221 Registered: 4-2001 |
When I bought my 1992 512TR in 1997 from a dealer with 4000 miles on it I negotiated a belt change in the price. It may cost you big bucks latter but it costs them very little to throw it it now since their incremental costs are only a few parts and they already have the mechanics on payroll. It will also renew most seals. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1152 Registered: 5-2001 |
Storage condition can make a huge difference in the life of those belts (and this sounds like good conditions)d, but just the same, you should consider a major service in the next year. For now, I would drive and enjoy the car. The belts can and do go on occaision, check the archives, it happened on a TR not too long ago... | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 648 Registered: 6-2002 |
J - This issue has been discussed numerous times on F-chat. Opinions are not lacking, and like armpits, everyone has two, and they all stink. Now, here is my olfactory offense. Drive the car. Don't worry about the belts. I have had two low mileage belt changes during the past year, and despite 20- and 17-year old belts, they looked like new. I would quickly put 26,000 miles on the car and then change the belts. Jim S. | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
Junior Member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 141 Registered: 4-2002 |
Change the belts. You are talking about 7 years during which the car has been mostly idle and I suspect the rubber is not very pliable at this point. During the major they can look everything over as well. The 512TR is one hell of a car. I hope you enjoy it! | ||
| jthomas (Jthomas)
New member Username: Jthomas Post Number: 12 Registered: 3-2002 |
On more item! Has anyone every experienced or heard of a belt failure in a 512TR and what is the outcome? | ||
| jthomas (Jthomas)
New member Username: Jthomas Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2002 |
Is there a way to inspect the Belts or is it something that should just be done after this amount of time sitting idle. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Intermediate Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 1525 Registered: 7-2002 |
Just asking for my own clarification. Does that mean you shouldn't drive the car before having it serviced or just that you might have some leaks when it gets all warmed up and used a bit? | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 4057 Registered: 9-2001 |
seal leaks!!!, belts should be done, your talking 5-10k to get her in driving shape | ||
| jthomas (Jthomas)
New member Username: Jthomas Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2002 |
I have negoitated the purchase of a 1992 512TR with 4,000 original miles on it. It has Service Invoices from Ferrari of San Francisco to document the original mileage. In addition, the car from an apperance standpoint looks like a 4,000 mile car. My concern is the fact that in Jan-1994 the car had 1,000 miles on it. Then in March 1996 the car had 3,800 miles on it when the second owner purchased the car and had it serviced. He has had the car in a Climate Controlled storage (along with 7-other F-Cars including an F-50) since then and has only put 100 miles on it since 1996. The car has not had any work done on it except for Oil Changes and the Ferrari (3000 or 4000 mile)Inspection. What problems should I expect from a car like this (i.e. Timing Belts, Clutch, Seal Leaks, etc) Also, is there anything in particular I should look at on the car to better verify the mileage. Thanks, J Thomas |