| Author | Message | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1552 Registered: 11-2002 |
James, The 288 GTO did have a racing counterpart. They just got rid of that whole racing group. Left the Porsche 959 quasi stranded until they figured to use it in rallying. I LOVE 288 GTOs. So no, no slagging here, and as for my balls...That's none of your business!  Cheers | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Junior Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 183 Registered: 4-2003 |
Front engine, V10, same wheelbase as the 250 GTO. Make it as light as possible, but street legal. This would truly be a car worth $600K | ||
| James Lee (Aventino)
New member Username: Aventino Post Number: 14 Registered: 6-2003 |
Taek, "not just a butchering of the name to make a few bucks". Slagging off the 288, on the Ferrarichat forum? Tell me, do you have trouble with airport metal detectors and your balls of steel. :-) | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 702 Registered: 11-2002 |
Absolutely. The GTO MUST be 100% a race car ... nothing more, nothing less. Pete | ||
| neal (95spiderneal)
Junior Member Username: 95spiderneal Post Number: 204 Registered: 3-2002 |
to get back on topic, what should a 200x gto consist of? front v mid, 8 v 10 v 12, 6sp vs f1, etc? | ||
| Greg (Teflon)
New member Username: Teflon Post Number: 18 Registered: 5-2003 |
Taek-Ho, Very well said. I disagree w/only one of your statements:
That is blasphemy Have you been hanging out with Allan? Greg | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1499 Registered: 11-2002 |
Greg, The point I was making with Marlboro is that, like Ferrari, it is a brand with inelastic demand. As a matter of fact, in college, Marlboro was the poster brand for inelastic demand. I devoted my final project (for that class) to showing Ferraris have inelastic demand and the ramifications of this type of product in the marketplace. I think Ferrari's fervor lies mostly in their F1 program and their "hand me down" technology can only mean that there is an inherent desire in what goes into their road cars. The matter of Ferrari not building the best road going F1 style transmission... Could it be because they simply can't do it? It is altogether possible that BMW is better than Ferrari in one aspect? BMW has proved to be no slouch at the track. The F1 transmission in road cars is an ongoing project (355s F1s are a far cry from current 360 F1s and this is currently BMWs second iteration of the SMG tranny), so I don't think it is fair to pass judgement on Ferrari because theirs is currently not "the best". Another thing. Faster shifting does not always mean the best shifting. Just seeing an evolutionary trend in products is enough to convince me that they are indeed trying. Cheers | ||
| Greg (Teflon)
New member Username: Teflon Post Number: 17 Registered: 5-2003 |
Taek-Ho, I was only commenting about your reference to Coca-Cola and their advertising and marketing practices. I don't think it applies to Ferrari's strategies. Also, the same reason you state for Ferrari's lack of advertising is exactly why I don't think Ferrari has a burning desire to create truly innovative and revolutionary vehicles. People line up to buy whatever car Ferrari build. I am veering wildly OT now, but a lot of the reason Marlboro ads have disappeared from magazines such as, "Road & Track" is a direct result of the Tobacco Co. lawsuits and the general public's negative image of that industry right now. Greg | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1496 Registered: 11-2002 |
Greg, >>I can't remember the last time I saw an ad on television or in print for a Ferrari road car.<< Good you mention this. Do you know what the most recognizable brand in the entire world is? Marlboro. Good luck trying to find adverts for it (at least in the US). Ferrari does not have to advertise because they don't need to. Ferrari is easily one of the most recognized car marques in the world. Ferrari's advertising is all the people who wander around wearing Ferrari T-Shirts etc. When they come on sports channels winning races and when they are in print announcing their new models. Cheers | ||
| Greg (Teflon)
New member Username: Teflon Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2003 |
Taek-Ho, This is an example of what I mean: no one seems to care that the F1 transmission in all of Ferrari's cars shifts slower than what BMW claims for their SMG II. The Ferrari team is the ultimate in F1, yet the company doesn't make the best road going trans based on that technology. Does that stop people from buying Enzos or 360 F1's? Not at all. I've heard the F1 trans costs $10,000 on 360's. I know it's about a $2400 option on M3's. So, what incentive does Ferrari have to dramatically improve that system and make it the best one offered? Coca-Cola has extreme competition in their marketplace. Selling cola is a bit different than selling $150,000+ cars. Different type of customer, radically different markets. Doesn't Ferrari have brand recognition on par, if not closely behind, Coke's? I can't remember the last time I saw an ad on television or in print for a Ferrari road car. Ferrari has enjoyed a very long period of limited competition. It hasn't started to heat up until recently, but I don't think it has the company all that worried...yet. Greg | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1488 Registered: 11-2002 |
Greg, Coca-Cola sells billions of dollars worth of drinks and merchandise a year. They still advertise and come up with new things as much as they can. If Ferrari rest on their laurels their cars will eventually be a poor caricature of what made Ferrari what it is. Cheers | ||
| Greg (Teflon)
New member Username: Teflon Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2003 |
Taek-Ho, Here's why I think it won't make any difference: they already sell every car they make. Why bother working on all of that expensive technology when they don't need it to sell their road cars? I'm probably 100% incorrect, it's just a feeling that I can't shake. Even though I have that feeling, I'd love to see a Factory effort in ALMS and at Le Mans. Maybe that would get Porsche back into the top tier too. Nothing like a little competition, right? Greg | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1484 Registered: 11-2002 |
Why wouldn't a factory effort make a bit of difference. Ferrari is AMAZING at taking race technology and applying it to their cars. Also there are a lot of folks who think endurance racing is the truest form of motorsports. Brutal on driver and car. The analogy I like to draw up is boxing. F1 would be Olympic boxing. Highly technical, rounds (distance) limited so that the athlete (car) can go 110% and still make it to the end. Endurance racing is like pro boxing where the biggest and baddest make it to the top. Extremely punishing (no headgear), time limits that see the drivers and cars exhausted by race end, big fixes as the race progresses (fixing cuts on a boxer's face), and such. I agree that F1 in many ways is the pinnacle of racing. I feel that races like Le Mans are the truest form of racing though. Some of those privateer and backmarker cars can probably be used as daily drivers too! Cheers | ||
| Greg (Teflon)
New member Username: Teflon Post Number: 13 Registered: 5-2003 |
Guys, I agree with you both, but just a small part of me feels that a factory effort for OA at Le Mans won't make a bit of difference. Having said that, I still want to see it happen. Ben, I too am a very big fan of the F50 GT. Several years ago I saw what is probably Art Z.'s F50 GT in the showroom at Ferrari Beverly Hills. I didn't know it was a factory built car or how rare it was at the time, but I knew I loved it. However, I believe that the F50 GT would not have been competitive against the CLK-GTR. Greg | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1481 Registered: 11-2002 |
Andrew, I agree with the butchering. I do think it's a necessary evil in some ways. Rosso Corsa didn't show too well on TV and now it looks better. Color should now be called Orange. Wait, that's a different sponsor isn't it? Greg, Audi uses racing as a marketing strategy, not so much (in some ways they do) as a technological test bed for road cars. Audi's major demographic is not one to watch endurance races. Ferrari, on the other hand would benefit quite a bit by making a factory effort. I mean this in the best way, but I feel that Ferrari campaigning an Enzo as a Maserati is a cowardly act. If the car falls flat on it's face, then it's the Maserati marque that will shoulder most of the shame. If it wins, Ferrari will step in the limelight and raise the trophy. That's one reason I respect Audi. They proved themselves as winners and THEN introduced the Bentley racers, which eventually took the cake (yes, I know the parent company is VW, but it's not like they won with Audi and then rebadged them VWs). Cheers | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 555 Registered: 6-2002 |
Greg- though the 550 in GTS class kicked ass, it's still not "the crown" of LeMans (nor was it a factory effort.) I say this with all due respect to the Prodrive team! Audi's sales are going backwards because the new A4 and A6 aren't as pretty (or classy looking) as the older cars. They now look much more like their VW sisters, and less like the simple beautys they were. No stick in the S6 isn't helping my buying dollars either! ;) I guess what you're hearing is a guy who REALLY wanted the F50GT to really kill OA (esp because it was a real evolution of the street car.) Best! Ben. | ||
| Greg (Teflon)
New member Username: Teflon Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2003 |
Taek-Ho, Not at all. I understand what you're saying, but what good does an OA win do? Look at Audi. They've won OA at Le Mans the past 4 years (this year's Bentley is a camoflauged Audi). How has that helped their road cars? Not at all. In fact, Audi's sales are going backward. I did mention in my previous post that the Enzo(as a Maserati) will be racing and that Ferrari--through some outside source--is going to build 550/575 factory race cars. Greg | ||
| Andrew-Phillip Goalen (Andrewg)
Junior Member Username: Andrewg Post Number: 162 Registered: 9-2002 |
Taek, unfortunatley Ferrari for the past few years seems to be all about butchering for a few more dollars, hence change in Rosso Corsa, addtional 50 Enzo's, Filla tie ups etc. The funiest thing about the Filla thing is that the week that they announced the latest pair of shoes Rubens Barichello was on the front page of Autosport (English racing mag) wearing a pair of trainers (sneakers whatever you guys call em!) that were made by Diadora!!!!! one more reason to like the guy | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1480 Registered: 11-2002 |
Not to be abrasive but a GTS class win is not conquering Le Mans. Conquering would be a 1st OA win like in the good old days. Also, a factory effort would be nice. Prodrives cars are extremely modified versions of the road cars. Cheers | ||
| Greg (Teflon)
New member Username: Teflon Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2003 |
Ben, The prodrive 550 won the GTS class at Le Mans this year. The Enzo is supposed to be racing soon as a Maserati. It seems that Ferrari doesn't really need to build a factory car for Le Mans--even though they are. Greg | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 554 Registered: 6-2002 |
The Enzo is not an F60... that's still 'due' later. The GTO name is due for a resurgance. Ferrari is spanking F1, why not conquer LeMans too? I wonder.... Best! Ben. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1479 Registered: 11-2002 |
I wonder what engine configuration it would use? The thought of it alone gives me chills. What race would it be homologating a model for? The O part of GTO should be real, not just a butchering of the name to make a few bucks. Cheers | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
New member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 22 Registered: 4-2003 |
The Enzo, along with the F50 and F40 are (were) supposed to fill that role... | ||
| DESperately awaiting Friday (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 5337 Registered: 8-2002 |
2006 seems to fit the equation... Let's hope they see that, too... | ||
| Gabe V (Racerxgto)
Junior Member Username: Racerxgto Post Number: 76 Registered: 4-2003 |
1962 GTO 1984 GTO 200x GTO ??? Do you think that is the end of the GTO line? Or speculate Ferrari may reveal another GTO in the works? Perhaps the 360 replacement as mentioned in another topic? I know I've asked many questions here, but do you have any input on the subject? |