| Author |
Message |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 11:27 pm: | |
good analogy Martin...lol |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 2:58 pm: | |
okay, Iwas wrong:
it is PANIS with the s spoken.
Like Penis with an A. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 2:37 pm: | |
Panis with correct french grammar would be Pa-Nee without the S.
In any other language you will pronounce the s though. But in french it is silent or is it not. Now I am confused!
I will check that in a second... |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Sunday, October 14, 2001 - 11:05 pm: | |
Yeah, I realise that Steve. That's the way I say 'em.
"You say tomato (toe-MAY-toe) and I say tomato (toe-MAH-toe)" J |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
| | Posted on Sunday, October 14, 2001 - 12:19 pm: | |
Peter -- My point was that I don't think that there's a simple answer to my question. Doesn't D. Bell say Ma-NOCK-o and somehow I think the "s" does come thru a little on Panis -- at least it seems to me that the announcers don't put a hard "knee" on the end (although with Panis' result today they didn't call his name much)... |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2001 - 11:19 pm: | |
Monaco = "Moh-na-co"
Panis = "Pa-nee" |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2001 - 7:03 pm: | |
Can someone explain to me why you guys don't also blow a gasket when Varsha-Hobbs-et Al. seem to vary at random "HOCK-inen" with "HACK-inen" (I noticed they did it several times each during Suzuka qualifying). Sure, ABC gets a C- at best for lack of content (unfortunately the status quo for most US racing coverage), but to bash Bob Jenkins for stumbling over mispronouncing Sauber once was a bit unfair IMHO since it's not his usual turf. Several other words/names in F1 I'd like to know how to pronounce correctly someday: Monaco, Panis, etc... |
chris cummings (Entelechy)
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 8:09 pm: | |
Just had to chime in about all the heat Jason Priestly is taking on this thread. I didn't see the race (luckily, it sounds like), but wanted to relay what I just read in Bob Bondurant's book on High Performance Driving. I was SHOCKED to discover that Bob praised Jason as one of the best and most talented students he's ever taught, which is impressive if you know Bondurant's clientele. I don't know how he came off on the program, and I don't know what he's like as a person, but his passion for racing seems to be genuine. Still, if he was commentating, that may be a bit much...anyway, just felt I should come to his defense in terms of his skills and interest. If I hadn't read that in Bob's book, I'd be asking the same questions some of you were with the same level of indignation. |
Matt Karson (Squidracing)
| | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 8:45 pm: | |
My FML subscription ran out. Would someone who has an online subscription to FML please copy and paste the article, and email it to me? Many thanks. |
TomD (Tifosi)
| | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2001 - 12:07 pm: | |
check out the great editorial in the Ferrari Market Letter blasting the coverage |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2001 - 2:08 pm: | |
before we start this again...
THIS IS MY OPINION. EVERYBODY ELSE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN! |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2001 - 2:07 pm: | |
Because the dates clashed with a wedding and because he lived in Monaco for a few years and saw the "real" F-1 in action from a balcony by just looking down... .
Gheez, I admit it was not meant that way!
I still consider NASCAR racing "redneck-racing". It was the most unfulfilling experience I had after driving in Sebring the day before in my car! |
Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2001 - 1:59 pm: | |
If all the Formula 1 fans are so rich then why were they at home watching it on T.V. A rich person should have been there. |
Mark (Mnmark)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2001 - 1:19 pm: | |
For anyone interested, Peter Windsor was the pit reporter for FoxSportsNet, then when they didn't renew the F1 contract, he got hired by Speedvision. He is also editor of F1 magazine. If you are into F1, you need this magazine. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2001 - 11:43 am: | |
NINE O TWO ONE INDY! |
TomD (Tifosi)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2001 - 5:53 am: | |
I think you are thinking of Peter Windsor - he is a Brit, I think he is also the F1 beat writer for the Times in London - he does do a good job. |
Matt Karson (Squidracing)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 8:04 pm: | |
I dont know his name, but the guy on Speedvision who does the reporting from the paddock, now that's how it should be done. Insightful, well spoken, obviously very well versed in the sport. He knows his boundaries, and understands what the F1 viewer cares about. Not some amateur racecar driver like Jason. Seriously, what in the world was ABC thinking? |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 6:33 pm: | |
I'm not gonna say his boy toy reputation and his pathetic performance at commentating are anything but that, but Jason Priestly is a decent race driver from what I understand so I can see why they thought he might be good as an announcer. Just my little insight into why they have the boy toy with the real racers. |
Jay P. Ross (Eilig)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 5:16 pm: | |
No kidding! The boy-toy from Beverly Hills 90201 trying to make "buds" with the legends of racing, and the other blubbering idiot was just too much! I turned down the volume and watched it without sounds. Just couldn't take it any more! PATHETIC! |
Mark (Mnmark)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 3:31 pm: | |
Glad I was at the track. I have heard those guys do other races, and they are terrible. Speedvision? Sam Poseur? Get real. He truly is excited, but tries too hard to be ... something, and is terrible. Give me the crew that did the FoxSportsNet broadcasts two years ago.
Yes, there are better tracks in the USA. I agree with Murray Walker, Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin has the best track. But where we stay? Milwaukee? Then how to get to the track? OK, who pays for the buses, and what time will they leave for the track to get us there before the AM practice on Sunday? Indy answers all those problems. Having attended both F1 races there, the whole weekend, I had the opportunity to sit all over, and it's tough to find a bad seat. I managed for one of the practice sessions, but had to work at it. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 10:31 am: | |
I didn't see the ABC coverage because I was at the track watching it live for the second year in a row. I did like the ABC graphics on the track diamond screen though which showed the tach and speedo. Was that shown of the TV coverage ? Until Speedvision is offered on all cable networks we will have to live with ABC I suppose as it gets into millions more householes. Indy is the best place for an F1 race in the U.S.A., period. The facilities are outstanding, the locals love racing of any type , know how to treat F1 fans and it has the intrastructure to handle 200,000+ race fans without chaos. There is no other track in the U.S.A. that could come close other than maybe Daytona. I have been to other F1 races and the Indy facility is the best thus far. |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 9:53 am: | |
Rally guys are nuts as you said Peter, also those guys that race 800HP trucks across the desert are pretty insane. Something about 120mph in and out of boulders, cacti the size of trees, and over 6 foot ditches makes me question their sanity, or at the very least suggests they have big gagoots. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 6:23 am: | |
Didn't we have the NASCAR discussion a while ago? |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 6:20 am: | |
Sorry if I stepped on your toes guys.
Yes Matt, after the anger subsides it is kind of radical, isn't it...oopps.
What I meant to say is that there are two different kind of spectators. Hm, maybe I should send them a revised one.
The high income statement is a fact. No it has nothing to do with it and will hopefully change with more and more people getting interested in this sport (here in the US). At this point people that watch and follow F-1 are either true racing fans, car maufacturer fans (like us) or have lived in other countries and were exposed to F-1.
Again I hope that this will change soon. It would be great to get to show people driving skills that you can not demonstrate on an oval track. Heck in NASCAR you don't even have to shift while you are on the track. Gas break gas break gas break.
Anyway, did not mean to offend anybody. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2001 - 9:50 pm: | |
My opinion is the best form of racing is rallying. Its just you, the car and the clock. Controlled chaos. Sliding a car with 400+ HP at nearly three-figure speeds, into a corner, on a dirt road demands utmost respect. |
James P. Smith (Tigermilk)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2001 - 4:26 pm: | |
Bashing NASCAR? As much as I hate to admit it, I love some NASCAR - Watkins Glen, Sears Point, and the short tracks. There's nothing better than 43 cars bumping and diving in and out at Bristol. If you like racing, you should like some NASCAR. If you solely like technology with little racing, F1 is it. Face it, there's not much excitement during an actual F1 race. You can almost count the number of passes for a season on two hands. The most exciting part of F1 is the qualifying session. CART has better racing (driver against driver rather than car technology vs car technology) IMO. Still, the ABC broadcast did suck. |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2001 - 12:14 pm: | |
Sorry Paul, I didn't mean to offend Monday Night Football with a simple mistake. Don't worry, I wont let it happen again. Thanks for pointing out that they both start with Dennis, I almost missed that one. |
Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2001 - 10:10 am: | |
Bret,
Try Dennis Miller.
yes both names start with Dennis. |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2001 - 8:35 am: | |
This whole thing reminds me of when Dennis Leary started doing Monday Night Football, unfortunately he still does it though, with work this will have a different result. |
david schirmer (David)
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 11:43 pm: | |
Nice letter Matt, I wouldn't tear it up at all. I know I couldn't have done better. I only wish I had an opportunity to sign it. |
Frederick Thomas (Fred)
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 10:26 pm: | |
I don't know but for some reason an awful lot of people come to see this place and drive it. There must be something about it. Yes it is a big world and they still come. Drivers and spectators alike. Is there any racetrack in the world that draws bigger crowds? One thing I agree with you guys about. WHAT was Jason Priestly doing there??? |
Matt Karson (Squidracing)
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 9:57 pm: | |
Martin, getting a little radical at the end there, no?
The Glen would be the perfect place for the F1 circus, but as Scott put it quite well, for all pratical purposes, Indy is the only place the U.S. can host one.
Fred, I can't imagine that people who hang out at Interlagos,
A1-Ring, Nurburgring, Magny-Cours, Silverstone, Hockenheim, Hungaroring, Spa, or Monza to mention just a few, would refer to Indy as the racing capital of the world. Indy is a nice oval, and for driving fun, not too good of a road course. The world is a bit bigger, and many tracks are much much better, than Indy. It's the biggest, and best, most well equipped 'television' track that we have to offer.
This is a copy of the letter that I sent to ABC. Try not to tear it up too badly guys.
To whome it may concern,
As a long time F1 enthusiast, I feel compelled to inform you that in my opinion, and the opinions of scores of other enthusiasts I have spoken with in various chat rooms, the commentator coverage of the U.S. Grand Prix was nothing short of pathetic. Their lack of knowledge of the sport was shockingly apparent. Incorrectly pronouncing the drivers names? Showing no understanding of the great importance of the subtle nuances which make F1 what it is. Sounding like a group of all American, apple pie eating, boys who really don't know what is taking place, and certainly do not know how to relay it to the viewing public, is not something that ABC Sports needs. Indeed, if your organization has any interest in putting on a production which anyone involved in the F1 community will have any interest in watching, and not laughing at , you are well advised to see how it is done on Speedvision. For full disclosure, I have no affiliation whatsoever with Speedvision. It is just that they do it as right, as you do it wrong.
During the race, I had friends from all over the country calling me, (as I was calling other friends) laughing at the coverage. This is the first time in the better part of a decade this has ever happened.
Cart or IRL announcers should stay just that. I actually saw the lead announcer, (I do not remember his name) say during an interview that he spent 2 weeks getting ready for this assignment. First of all, this is the best you have? Someone who really does not know the current state of events? Shockingly poor. Eddie Cheever? He was so bad in F1 it is embarrasing he would even consider talking about it in public. Last but not least, what in the world is Jason Preestly (spelling?) doing in the pits? Is your organization serious? I can only hope that the rest of the world had no access to your production. This way, they will not have the opportunity to laugh at us.
I would love to hear back from you in some form other than a prewritten, form letter. If you are interested in getting it right, as opposed to that joke of a production you put on, I and the rest of the F1 fans in the U.S. will be happy to help. |
Tim N (Timn88)
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 8:56 pm: | |
I watch and enjoy nascar very much. It deserves as much respect as other types of racing, such as irl, or cart. nascar is a very competetive because of all the rules to keep the cars equal and letting the car setups, pit crews & strategies, and drivers determine the victor of each race. Even though it isnt as technologically advanced as other forms of racing, it takes skill to run races. Especially without all that telemetry and A GAS GAUGE |
Frederick Thomas (Fred)
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 8:31 pm: | |
I will say it again. I can not stand Nascar! But to imply that the people who watch it or participate in it are unintelligent is very unitelligent. And what the hell does a race fan's income have to do with it? |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 8:09 pm: | |
Here is my e-mail to ABC:
Dear ABC Sport;
although I value the fact that you have taken a chance to broadcast the Formula One race on a football Sunday, I would hope that your choice of commentators will be different for next year. These guys did not have the slightest clue of what was going on.
You have done some homework and said correctly "F-1 is a total different animal!" How true this is. You can not use NASCAR drivers and commentators on a challenging race like F-1. Neither of them knew any of the owners, managers or drivers. These guys can work with people like Newman /Haas or a Jeff Gordon but putting the arm around Mr. Eddie Jordan is so off the charts.
For next years "animal" I hope that you will retain the services of guys who know F-1 in and out because they travel the circus all year long and that for years. Hire the Speedvision guys to do your comets. Better, have nobody comment at all and just show the race. When we see the engine explode on a car we know it just exploded, we do not need Jason Piesley to tell us that.
Here is a link to a very popular Ferrari site. See what others think!
F-1 needs the positive publicity. We do need a network as ABC to take the initiative to broadcast these fantastic races. We all thank you for taking the gamble and hope it did pay off for you. But do it in style and with people that know their business. NASCAR is a sport for idiots. If you have idiots as commentators there is no loss, but in F-1 you have people with high income attending and following these races. Power through knowledge!
Hope my comments are somewhat helpful. If you like to respond you can call me at (305) 867-7676 or e-mail me back at: [email protected]
Sincerely;
Martin Wiescholek |
Frederick Thomas (Fred)
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 8:01 pm: | |
Anyone who dogs Indy as a place to have a race doesn't know what he is talking about ... period. The Indy 500 -- I am not a fan of the IRL by any means (the race was much better with CART)-- is still the greatest thing you could ever watch live. I have been 15 times and still get chills every time they drop the green flag. Then there is the Brickyard 400. I hate Nascar, but they get 300,000 to 350,000 people a year to come watch it. Someone likes it. Then there is the F1 race. Attendance was down this year to ONLY 175,000 and that is with all that has been going on. I can't say for sure, but I would bet a pretty good chunk of money that Long Beach or Watkins Glen never drew that many people. They also have Indy raceway park where they hold the drag nationals ( I don't like drag racing either) So why exactly would Indianapolis not be a good place to have an F1 race? It's not called the racing capital of the world for nothing. And the word "history" was mentioned to describe a few other suggested courses. If history is the yard stick, then someone please tell me of a track with more history. There are plenty of F1 champions and drivers who have come to little old Indy: Graham Hill, Mario Andretti, Jim Clark, Emerson Fittipaldi, Jackie Stewart, Jacques Villeneuve, ALBERTO ASCARI, Jack Brabham, Nelson Piquet, Nigel Mansell, Juan Montoya. A pretty good list of drivers that for some strange reason wanted to come to Indianapolis and it wasn't to see a Colts game. |
Scott Anderson (Srandrsn)
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 6:09 pm: | |
I just got back and the one thing I wanted to find out about was how was the broadcast. Obviously it was a travesty! Those guys aren't even good at the stuff they regularily do (IRL). Actually Jenkins isn't bad, he's done motorsports for a long time but if you don't know the material there isn't much you can do.
As far as other venues go, sure there are better tracks around the country; don't forget Road America right here in WI. But one of the major things to consider for events like these are the logistics involved for holding a race of that size. I don't know how many of you have been to Road Am but there is no way you could get 200,000 people in or out of there let alone house them for that week. It was hard enough to find a room just for the Ferrari challege series weekend.
Indy while not the greatest track does have a major airport, relatively easy in/out on the freeways, hotels both in Indy and the surrounding cities and the basic infrasturctue to run a race of F1's magnatude. As a side-bar a few years ago my country club was being considered as a site for the U.S. Womens Open. What it came down to was not that the course wasn't good enough but that there was no place to put all the corporate tents, parking, transportation of spectators, room for spectators on the course, that kind of thing. So I think were stuck with Indy because even though there are better circuts in the country there is no way they will make the investments to get there tracks up to F1 specs when Indy has already done it. I think we are lucky that F1 came here at all. |
Larry (Larry)
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 1:58 pm: | |
i second, everyone. it was too embarrassing for the sport. they,(ABC) would have been better off dubbing over the audio w/an old Murray Walker/James Hunt, GP! |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 10:41 am: | |
I gotta admit that I'd rather see the race at Laguna Seca or Watkins Glen like you said David. Everytime I talk to Ferrari guys at shows etc that track their cars their always talking about one of these two, they've got so much history. But Indy is better set up to make Bernie an even richer man. Just think for a second though how awesome it would be to see Schumacher at Watkins Glen. |
James Dixon (Omnadren250)
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 10:20 am: | |
A combination of being busy with school and a nagging girlfriend have prevented me from watching any races on television lately.
In Canada, we used to get the races on CBC and it would have the commentary plugged in from the actual track. It was a couple of english commentators, ex F1 drivers that did a good job.
John Watkins was one of them I believe.
Its a shame, nothing is worse than having poor commentary. Expecially when the announcers have little knowledge of F1. |
David Prall (Davidpra)
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 10:03 am: | |
What did you expect? The damn race is at Indy afterall...What a joke that is in the first place. Call me a snob, but one of the best things about F1 is no "Jethro Bodines" at the wheel of suped up Chevys (or in the announcers' booth for that matter).
Indy is a ridiculous place for an F1 race --- Especially when we have so many great courses elsewhere -- Road Atlanta, Laguna Seca, Mid-Ohio, even Watkins Glen would be far better venues. |
TomD (Tifosi)
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 9:32 am: | |
I agree the announcers stunk, I am not any particular fan of the speedvision announcers either. I think any time you are a slave to someone elses video (FIA world feed) it makes tough to put a good overall production together. Not an excuse for them though. I did notice a few perks in the coverage like the team radio and some diff graphics not sure if ABC did this or the FIA. At the end of the day Bernie Eccelstone wants F1 to be ultra exclusive and limit access. Almost the exact opposite of NASCAR. I guess both ways work as these guys just rake in the money |
HEATH VAUGHN (Heath)
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 7:50 am: | |
PLEASE
WHEN WILL THE SPEEDVISION VERSION BE BROADCAST??? |
HEATH VAUGHN (Heath)
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 7:47 am: | |
I HAVE SPENT TO MUCH OF MY LIFE WATCHING THE TUBE.
I FEEL I AM QUALIFIED TO MAKE JUDGEMENTS ON QUALITY OF PROGRAMING.
ABC BROADCASTING PROVIDED ME WITH THE WORST COMMENTARY FROM TALKING HEADS I HAVE EVER HAD TO SUFFER.
THEIR IS NOT A SINGLE PERSON ON THIS CHAT LINE WHO COULD NOT HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB.
I LOOK FORWARD ALL YEAR TO THE USGP AND WHAT DO I GET "S H I T"
I HOPE ABC SENDS THOES GUYS BACK TO ICE SKATEING OR PRO BOWLING AND WILL CONTRACT WITH KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE WHO AT LEAST CAN GET THE NAMES RIGHT!!!!!!!!
VERY DISAPOINTED
HEATH VAUGHN |
William_Huber (Solipsist)
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 10:18 pm: | |
Yes, it was a total crap broadcast. When the question of a future American F1 driver came up, someone said Jeff Gordon. OH GOD NO!!!!!! NASCAR,Auuuuggghhhh! What the hell happened? |
david schirmer (David)
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 10:16 pm: | |
I watched with a group today. We had a great time ripping on the commentators. What a bunch of idiots. Each time you thought you had heard the stupidest comment of the day, they would go on to outdo themselves. At least we appreciated the comedy value... |
James P. Smith (Tigermilk)
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 9:55 pm: | |
Matthew, I did the same. Let SV know just how good they are. A virtual pat on the back is in order for them.
The worst moment was when Bob Jenkins was describing the battle between DC and that "other car." |
Adam Goldman '86 TR (Icnsltmfg)
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 8:22 pm: | |
It was the worst I ever saw. How is the basic American ever going to be interested in finding out why F1 is so great. They should have with all of their "experience" at least shown the diffrences from F1 and CART / Indy / IRL. |
Matthew Jenson (Moab355)
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 8:16 pm: | |
That was so painful to watch. I really hope that people did not turn it off because of those two. I just cannot believe he said "I wonder what a Ferrari engine costs because in about 2 laps we are going to see a Ferrari handgrenade" The coverage ruined what would have been a good race.
I CAN'T WAIT TO WATCH IT ON SPEEDVISION
I sent an E-mail to ABC to let them know how poorly they did and one to Speedvision letting them know just how good they are. |
Matt Karson (Squidracing)
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 7:33 pm: | |
Thanks for the link. I sent an email. |
Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 6:51 pm: | |
Tell ABC how you feel so they get rid of that group for next year. e-mail address is below.
[email protected] |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 3:18 pm: | |
But best would be if they all shut up and transmit engine sound only! Like in the BMW commercial. Tune out the commentators. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 3:17 pm: | |
There is professionals (Speedvision) and there is NASCAR commentators.... |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 3:16 pm: | |
RIGHT ON! |
Matt Karson (Squidracing)
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 3:11 pm: | |
Is it just me, or was that the worst job you have ever seen by a bunch of bozo's giving color on an F1 race?
1. The lead commentator did not know how to pronounce the drivers names.
Who is Baricarole? Hienze who?
2. Ralf Schumacher is sitting in the pits during his first (early?) stop for 11.5 seconds due to a problem with the left rear tire. The brilliant comment was....."that,,,, that..was a long pit stop." No comments on why, how, who, what....
3. Jason Priestly? What is that idiot doing there? Putting his arm around the shoulder of Eddie Jordan? Buddy Buddy?
4. Eddie Cheevers sucked so bad in F1, he couldn't even get into Cart, and had to opt for IRL.
5. Oh, I could go on and on.....
Seriously, did they suck or what? |
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