| Author |
Message |
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1345
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 4:33 pm: | |
Bill,
The stuff I've picked up of the net seems to show that FNA handled it on a "case by case" basis, but pretty much has dodged this issue since the late eighies or 1990. It appeared to be very few cars involved, and I would figure most have been repaired by now. That or they must be oil sucking pigs by now! :-) Actually, I have heard rumors that the oil consumption of these early FI cars can, and have been improved by using the Krank vent system by Nick over at Nick's Forza Ferrari. Mark G here on this thread says it helped him, and I have seen a few other posts on this site from Krank Vent users having similar results. Maybe it works. |
Bill V (Doc)
Member
Username: Doc
Post Number: 394
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 4:14 pm: | |
Dave--do you know if there was a recall on the rings? |
Bill V (Doc)
Member
Username: Doc
Post Number: 393
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 4:12 pm: | |
Mark--you never cease to amaze me! I'll never forget the ride you gave me in your 308--unbelievably fast! And now you're making it faster--all I can say is, WOW!!! Best of luck with the project. I'm anxoius to hear how it turns out. |
Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member
Username: Me_k
Post Number: 624
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 12:45 pm: | |
Mitchell,
I haven�t started the work on a 2Vi yet, but will as soon as I finish my car, couple weeks maybe. On my QV a got 55% with a simple roots blower at 10 psi. I am almost finished with a screw type and intercooler that should be good for 550-620 hp at 20-24 psi on pump gas, I�ll post some thing when I get it running. The 2V cars should make similar number since it mostly just about displacement. I�ve started designing a system for a guy with a 2Viw ho wants everything that can possibly be done. The design is for 24-30 psi, he�s switching to GT4 cams and dropping the compression a little, bigger exhaust , 91 octane pump gas. That should be well over 600-750 hp depending how low the compression needs to go make 91 octane work. It probably will be 6 months before it�s finished. Again I�ll post something.
|
Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member
Username: Tbakowsky
Post Number: 484
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 12:37 pm: | |
heck I drive my 308 probbably 15,000 to 20,000km a year and all I've had to do is the oil changes.(of course I've changed the belts,adjusted the valves etc) But i do all this work myself because I'm a mechanic anyway. All told since I've owned the car I've spent maybe $2500 in service costs. These cars are not that bad!! If they were I would never beable to afford to own it, even being a mechanic!! I think alot of people like to say they've spent thousands of dollars repairing their cars beacuse it makes them feel speacial. Heck If anycar car cost me thousands of dollars a year to fix, it would be out the door so fast you wouldn't have time to say Honda. |
Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member
Username: Yelcab1
Post Number: 595
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 12:15 pm: | |
quote:
Below 5 MPH drives like a truck, above five MPH its like making love to Cindy Crawford - a treat for all the senses!!!
End of quote.
Mark, are you speaking from experience??
My 75308GT4 with 4 carbs ... rule. I can't say that it is making love to Cindy Crawford because I have never had the pleasure. |
Dave (Dave)
Member
Username: Dave
Post Number: 546
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 11:59 am: | |
Your right Bill, there was a change in the piston rings at one point that caused the oil problem... |
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1336
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 11:52 am: | |
Bill, you can check the archives on that subject. I have never met or spoken to anyone with first hand knowledge of it, so I would think the problem was rather limited in scope. |
Bill V (Doc)
Member
Username: Doc
Post Number: 392
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 9:57 am: | |
I thought that i heard that some bi-valved injected models sufferred from a bad oil consmption problem. Is this true? Someone , at some point, also thought that there was a recall for this. Does anyone know the facts about these rumors? |
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1334
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 12:21 am: | |
I try to do as much work as I can, change oil, install Tubi, etc. Start driving your car 10k miles a year and you will start seeing the bills; assuming you wish to keep up with the prescribed maintanence. Thus far, you have not driven your car sufficiently to even require an oil change.... |
Collin Hays (Chaysintexas)
Junior Member
Username: Chaysintexas
Post Number: 139
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 11:09 pm: | |
Dave, excellent point! Trouble is, I work and am raising small children. My only CHANCE to drive my beauty is after 9pm!
Seriously, the car gets drive quite a bit more in the warm months. It might go a month without getting out of the garage in the winter, though I start it and let it get good and warmed up once per week.
I really do think the repairs and maintenance is way overblown. Way. The myth is fed by a variety of sources - the dinstinguished marque itself, the fact that the cars are rare, the fact that mechanics consider both and crank up their labor rate from $60 p/h to $100 p/h when the F-car drives ups. Plus the fact that many Ferrari owners feel as if they "went on the cheap" if they spent less than $250 on an oil change, etc.
I let a local oil change place change all of my cars - Mercedes, Lexus, and Ferrari. The MB actually takes the most time (you have a few more things to unscrew). All use similar filters and almost identical oil. All have a fill on the top end, and a drain on the bottom end, etc. etc.
But you drive the F-Car into your local hot shot import repair shop and, PRESTO! It's a $250 oil change!
Dave, THAT'S WHY "nothing comes close in repairs and maintenance costs..." as you say. It's a total racket. But what a great car the Ferrari is, agreed? |
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1321
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 1:11 am: | |
Collin,
of course you have no maintanence, you are not driving your car. I put on 10k a year on my current car and my previous 308. No other car comes close in maintanence or repair cost for 10k miles a year driven....
I mean seriously, based on your 3.2 miles per day, you've driven roughly 1600 miles in the last 18 months, what kind of "ownership experience" is that? I've put over 35k miles between two cars in 3.5 years. Okay, I'll take a "chill pill" and lighten up....no harm meant, buddy... :-) |
Collin Hays (Chaysintexas)
Junior Member
Username: Chaysintexas
Post Number: 138
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:44 pm: | |
My '82 308 GTSi is rock solid. The only thing that doesn't work is the A/C, and that's just because I don't give a hoot about fixing it - I only drive the car with the top off and on mild days. About to hit 30,000 miles. I bought it 18 months ago. Mainly did cosmetics, new tires, and a few nickel and dime type repairs. At least with my car, the idea Vthat these cars are maintenance/repair hogs is a misnomer. I have a Mercedes Benz that's the same way. Take care of the car, and you will have few problems.
By the way, the similarities under the hood between the F-car and Mercedes are striking - tons of Bosch electronics on both. Heck, the Ferrari engine is more German than Italian.
My 308 gets drive exactly 3.2 miles per day (except Sundays when it stays in the garage). It's my "snow cone" car.
The 2V's are definitely not perky for the light. I'm not into that so I couldn't care less. The car looks like a million bucks.
|
Vince Canipelli (F308vc)
Junior Member
Username: F308vc
Post Number: 75
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 10:07 pm: | |
My '80 308GTBi,bought 3+ yrs ago from original owner. now has 22,000 miles, burns no oil and never had electric problems !!! Never let me down. Starts every time. Have added crank vent . |
Oldslow308 (Djparks)
Member
Username: Djparks
Post Number: 402
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 9:46 am: | |
Case in point; A 1985 Testarossa for sale at Cavallino Motors last week for 48,900 is now on Ebay (posted by Cavallino) with a 39,500 reserve!
DJ |
Stephen E. Schroeder (Seschroeder)
Junior Member
Username: Seschroeder
Post Number: 62
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 8:12 am: | |
The first guy brought the car because he/she appreciated and understand what a Ferrari really is. By the time the fifth guy gets the car it is only to impress - not appreciated. The sixth guy purchases the car (that would be me) and gets to play catch-up on delinguent maintenance. Do I have more in the car then I will get out - YES. Is it worth it? Well, it is a Ferrari; I like to think I understand and appreciate the true heritage the vehicle (it deserves to be taken care of!); I would do it again? IN A SECOND!!! |
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1313
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 1:51 am: | |
Gary is right. Have the cash, act disintrested, make and offer and if they don't bite, leave. You have to know how to negotiate. If some guy is offering a nice 82 for 34k tell him you will give him $25 and leave your number. He'll call and try to negotiate something if he is really interested in moving the car. |
Gary Reed (Gary_reed)
Junior Member
Username: Gary_reed
Post Number: 132
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 5:57 pm: | |
DJ, you are right... it pays to shop around. Have the cash in your hand and be ready to make a deal. I bought my first Ferrari, a 1981 308GTS 2-valve for $23.5K about six years ago... had it for a year (Ferrari learning lesson) and sold it for $27.5K, then bought a 308 QV that I own now and am thinking of selling soon. Deals are out there! Don't pay any attention to the "asking prices." |
Oldslow308 (Djparks)
Member
Username: Djparks
Post Number: 397
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 4:09 pm: | |
I think what Dave is alluding to is being at the right place at the right time. Mentioned before on this site, 'Cars don't always sell what they are advertised for'.
I have seen and heard of some pretty good deals lately that don't reflect the market advertisments mainly due to the soft market. The good ones don't get advertised because of 'word of mouth'. The really good and proven cars sell quickly.
DJ
|
Michael C. James (Mjames)
New member
Username: Mjames
Post Number: 36
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 3:25 pm: | |
But from the prices I'm seeing, there's a $10,000 difference between 2V and QV prices, and you'll need another $10,000 to step into 328 territory. Is $20,000 big-money? I'd love to have a 328 (had one before), but right now, I'm teetering toward the 308 series and looking around. Sellers with really nice 2V 308s still demand $30,000+ for their cars, regardless of the HP numbers. There really are no bargains - even the FCA Classifieds approach Ferrari Market Letter prices. |
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1303
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 2:58 pm: | |
SD, you are right, these cars are 20+ years old and now being "affordable" also means a lot of people bought into their "dream car" but never gave a hoot to what it would cost to maintain. There are some shameful, neglected examples out there now. The newer you look, the better the available pool of cars becomes. Realistically, a really nice, well cared for example of a 80-82 car is probably going to SELL in the high 20's to 31k. QV's mid 30's and 328's in high 30's to low 40's (except for the late 328's which people seem to be willing to pay outrageous $$$ for). Your best strategy is to buy a car in great shape, with records of recent work, rather than having to get it done. As you are aware it is expensive. keep looking, good cars are out there. Join the FCA and get involved locally, some of the best cars are often sold between members and are never advertised. |
Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member
Username: Allyn
Post Number: 1056
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 2:50 pm: | |
BI-VALVOLE... LOL
Sounds more Greek to me ;>) |
Bruce McKinney (Bruce_mckinney)
New member
Username: Bruce_mckinney
Post Number: 25
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 2:12 pm: | |
Thanks Dave!!!! |
Bruce McKinney (Bruce_mckinney)
New member
Username: Bruce_mckinney
Post Number: 24
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 2:11 pm: | |
Michael,
I think the K & N mods and Tubi mods are fairly inexpensive mods compared to the porting and polishing route - plus the Tubi makes the car sound SOOOOO GOOD!!!. Heck, if somebody needed to squeeze more power out of the 2V, they should just get a QV as the price difference between the two would probably be about the same as performing all the labor and work on the 2V. Better yet, 328's are pretty reasonable right now and just up the anti a bit and get the best of the 3X8 series. Power, reliability, performance...the 328 has got everything all the 308's lack and still has beautiful styling.
I am going to stop reffering to my car as a two-valve in the future. I think what Enzo meant to call these was a BI-VALVOLE...it certianly sounds more Italian! |
SD (Sers)
New member
Username: Sers
Post Number: 6
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 2:09 pm: | |
Sounds like most of you like your cars.
I find these to be the best values among the 308s. However, I'm having a tough time trying to find one that's in decent condition and that doesn't need a ton of work. Most of what I've found has sat around for the last 5 - 8 years (ie. not driven at all) and will probably need the major service done to them (belts, seals, etc.), and who knows what else. I don't have the budget to do a ton of work. Some, but not a lot. I also find the prices vary widely on these cars.
Anyway, I guess I'll keep looking. |
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1301
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 2:02 pm: | |
Bruce,
you need to post both an exterior AND interior shot of your car in your profile. Guys, his interior redo is awesome! The leather is WAY better than that Connelly crap Ferrari uses! |
Michael C. James (Mjames)
New member
Username: Mjames
Post Number: 33
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 1:53 pm: | |
Most of the mods I'm seeing involve alteration of airflow through the engine - K&N for the intake, bypass tubes and Tubis for the exhaust. Anyone have their heads ported and polished on their cars?
Tinkering with the cams sounds intrusive on the engine and expensive/labor intensive - am I wrong? |
Bruce McKinney (Bruce_mckinney)
New member
Username: Bruce_mckinney
Post Number: 23
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 1:53 pm: | |
I love my 81...and I think she loves me. I have owned the car for 5 years and have NEVER been let down or stranded. Has started EVERY time and havec never had electrical issues. I have put my heart and soul into the car over the years with quite a few cosmetic improvements (new interior, tucked bumpers) and am a "pre-ventative - maintenance - aholic". She's got 85K miles on her and still runs like a top and does NOT drip a single drop of oil. Sure...a bit down on power compared to the other 308's, but, in my opinion, the MOST bang for your buck. Sure, the little rice burners can beat the Hell out of it off the line, but they go home and park a Honda or Toyota in their garage..I am parking a Ferrari in my garage and I bet EVERY one of the rice burner owners would trade with me any day. I have added a K & N filter as well as a Tubi, but did not notice any appreciable difference other than it sounds AWSOME and less back pressure on the down shifts. She's probably as high as I need to go on the Ferrari food chain as I am really not much of a racer....besides, she's part of the family and I think will make a great coffin for me when its time to visit Enzo. |
Erik R. K. Jonsson (Gamester)
Member
Username: Gamester
Post Number: 359
Registered: 11-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 11:32 am: | |
The 20 miles I got to drive my 82 euro before it "got fired" was a blast, it has direct fire ignition. The euro certianly has a noticeable difference in power over USA versions. |
Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member
Username: Me_k
Post Number: 611
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 5:40 pm: | |
A guy out in CA asked me if I could develop a supercharger for his injected 2V.....it will solve the low hp problem if anyone else wants in. Depending on the set up, 40%-200% increases are possible. Another option is to install a set of early (pre cat) carb cams or similar and convert the stock manifold to efi, that would bring it into the 250-280 range depending on the exhaust and exactly which cam you use. |
Mark (Markg)
Member
Username: Markg
Post Number: 552
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 4:55 pm: | |
I did have to replace my fuse boxes; as to the rest of the car I Stabilant-22'd every connection I could find in the car (windows quicker and dash lights a bit brighter after applying it to switches and bulb sockets). Thermo-time switch was bad. No other problems so far .... |
DJParks (Djparks)
Member
Username: Djparks
Post Number: 393
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 4:05 pm: | |
The first Ferrari I drove was a 1980 GTSi. Power or no, I was hooked.
In reference to the electrical problems; I heard that the electronics for the FI in the trunk area was prone to moisture and would cause anomolies. Something I read on Fchat.
DJ |
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1278
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 3:14 pm: | |
Never heard of that. Can't imagine the electricals to differ much between the years, they used the same basic stuff. The big difference for the 80-82 is the additional wiring for the Bosch FI |
Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Member
Username: Ronsupercar
Post Number: 968
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 3:01 pm: | |
I've heard that 80-82 2V had a history of electrical problems in addition to under powered..
Anyone else hear the same??.....
ron |
Mark (Markg)
Member
Username: Markg
Post Number: 551
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 2:24 pm: | |
davehanda - Krank Vent improved the crankcase preasure build up reducing oil consumption more than anything else; test pipes reduced trunk temperatures by 10 fold (with cats on temp would melt paint of off toothpaste tubes!) and does add nice sound ; Haven't added direct fire yet but its cheaper than 2 caps and 2 QV rotor conversion kits, but you are right, without getting into major engine/FI mods these are small additions to HP!
those who have done the direct fire update on FI cars do claim better drivability, but it might just be wishfull thinking.... |
DHutchison (Hutch308)
Member
Username: Hutch308
Post Number: 366
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 2:08 pm: | |
I loved my '82, but needed more power. So, I upgraded to a Testarossa. Now, I'm all set on power. But I greatly miss the removeable roof. |
Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member
Username: Tbakowsky
Post Number: 475
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 12:48 pm: | |
I love my 2v but it is down on power. I'm to scared to race even a stock Honda Civic because I know I will get spanked(off the line anyway) I have installed the K&N filter, but I'm thinking EFI next and direct fire ignition. But I really love the way the car drives, rides and handles. I think they are the best of the bunch!! |
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1271
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 12:47 pm: | |
Mark,
The "hotter plug" recommendation is strictly for the earlier carb cars, not the later FI cars. I would be very suspect that an ignition upgrade would add much hp over the stock electronic ignition. Fellow member John Miles added the system to his carb 308, replacing an MSD, and found no hp difference between the two. I think the difference between the MSD and points was 5-7 hp. The 308 cars are pretty well optimized at each level in their production life, and there does not seem to be huge hp increases from simple bolt-ons. The things you have done so far will certainly improve the sound and perhaps even the throttle response, but doubtful to add more than a few hp. Not trying to knock what you are doing (in fact I encourage it, and do dyno runs and report back), but just the reality of what I have seen from various members cars put on the dyno here in Seattle. Doesn't stop me from modifying too. :-) My previous carb 308 had test pipe, K&N, rejetted carbs, etc. My current 328 has K&N, and a Tubi. But both cars tested very close to stock hp on the dyno...My friend even removed the cat (along with adding K&N and Tubi) on his 328 and still put out the same hp as my 328. We didn't test before, so we don't truly have a baseline, but I never noticed any huge difference after adding the 'extras'.
Dave
|
Stephen E. Schroeder (Seschroeder)
Junior Member
Username: Seschroeder
Post Number: 59
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 12:30 pm: | |
I love my 1982 308 GTSi (2v). It is a little down on power but then I've done nothing but a K & N filter. Below 5 MPH drives like a truck, above five MPH its like making love to Cindy Crawford - a treat for all the senses!!! |
Mark (Markg)
Member
Username: Markg
Post Number: 550
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 12:13 pm: | |
'82 GTSi; bit underpowered, but added K&N, Krank Vent and cat test pipes. Will do direct fire ignition next, and that will solve underpower issue.
No matter how long car sits, or if hot or cold, I just reach in throught he window, turn key and it starts right up. Have gone from 10,000 ft to almost sea level in 2 days, car ran fine at both extremes. Don't have to use the hot bp5es plugs; absolute smooth power band/acceleration. |
SD (Sers)
New member
Username: Sers
Post Number: 5
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 11:25 am: | |
Just trying to get a sense as to who here likes their fuel injected 2V 308s.
I've heard that they are down on power, but still nice to drive and better than the earlier carb cars.
Any thoughts? |