| Author | Message | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1092 Registered: 1-2002 |
allan: august 9&10 a possibility? deatails, here: http://www.speedtrialusa.com/buttonwillow.html | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1967 Registered: 11-2002 |
When This BIG DOG is on the Prowl all you pups better stay in da house!! ""From 0 to 300 km/h in under 14 seconds To blink even once, for a fraction of a second, could mean missing part of the excitement: the Bugatti EB 16-4 Veyron all-wheel-drive sports car needs scarcely 14 seconds to reach a speed of 300 kilometers an hour - an unsurpassed figure, though admittedly a largely theoretical one. What determines the Bugatti's character even more convincingly is the engine's unbelievable flow of torque. When exposed to the full 1,250 Newton-meters (922 lbs-ft of torque), the resistance of the air and even the force of gravity itself seem to have no chance: the EB 16-4 Veyron eats up the road as if these physical laws had just been abolished. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 770 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hubert ill be in Maui by then. | ||
| V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member Username: Ama328 Post Number: 181 Registered: 11-2002 |
the heart of what's being discussed here relates to a phrase i heard lately in the computer biz: 'the technology of good enough'. Do you really need a x.x GHz laptop with 1Gig memory and a HUGE hard drive. For most people, no, you don't. Same with cars, EVEN Fcars. Since Fcars can be reverse engineered, and we all know the actual raw materials/manufacturing cost is a hell of a lot less than what you pay at the dealer, I've been wondering for some time how long it's gonna be until 'pipsqueak motors' puts out a 400hp engine, fat tires, and a decent design/interior for, say, $50 large...when that happens, you'll know the car biz has entered an entirely new phase. Most of us are old enuf to remember the days when, to get Fcar performance & styling, you had to buy an Fcar...say it ain't so, baby, but those days are GONE...only thing stopping some car maker from putting out something as nice/exotic/vroom as a 328 or 348, priced at $30-40k is a desire to do so. As a result of all of this, i no longer desire a 'new' Fcar; mind you, i'll just buy stuff that's more fully depreciated. I personally don't care if what i've got is the latest & greatest, i'm just interested in neat cars with styling, performance, handling, and good sounds.  | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1089 Registered: 1-2002 |
upcoming events in october and september. but there are events at buttonwillow (here in so. cal.) in late august. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 767 Registered: 6-2002 |
Oh that looks fun. Wonder how far away from it is? Any track events up in the next few weeks? | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1087 Registered: 1-2002 |
http://www.braggsmith.com/track/index.html | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 763 Registered: 6-2002 |
What is Pahrump in Nevada? | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1478 Registered: 12-2001 |
Martin: will you please explain "head problems" in a Lambo? Did you ever hear of the tragic end to film director Murnau's life? He had a similar problem... (As to Allan, i thought he was just starting to have fun). | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1086 Registered: 1-2002 |
how 'bout pahrump in nevada? | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 762 Registered: 6-2002 |
Martin, id love to go, but i live in Scottsdale, which is quite a bit away, soon to be Maui. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5210 Registered: 5-2001 |
Clax, I still am not happy with the fact that you guys ar ejumping all over Allan. He has made a valid point in the first posting and has been put on defensive since. I do not agree with his "findings" but do not see my offer as an open challenge to him in person but to give an opportunity to come and see where the two cars shine. Glad to take a ride with him in the Lambo (although I have head problems in the Diablo  ) and will gladly take him in a ride in my 355. Its a friendly offer not a challenge. | ||
| Clax (Clax)
Junior Member Username: Clax Post Number: 91 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hey Allan, Looks like you've sufficiently peeved off enough people that they are willing to use their time & resources on wasting your Lambo. You got the stones? Or are you going to continue to hide behind the keyboard? | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5207 Registered: 5-2001 |
Allan, Moroso September 6th hosted by Performance Driving Club. $ 175 entry. I will be there with my 355. Did a 1.452 on the new track with the new esses and was not pushing (had a client flying in the next day to look at the car). | ||
| Jason W (Pristines4)
Member Username: Pristines4 Post Number: 511 Registered: 12-2002 |
It's "you're." | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 751 Registered: 6-2002 |
I think your wrong. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5205 Registered: 5-2001 |
Allan, since Moroso is my home track and I am very familiar with all the Lambo guys out here, since my mechnaic is one the the few factory trained Lambo mechanics in Florida I can tell you that these were uneven matches. Yep it looks so cool to a Lambo guy when a Lambo blasts by on the front stretch. Go to the time lap of the 360Ch and the Lambo and you will see a complete different picture and would not quote the LAmbo in that race at all. At Italia fest (done by the FL Lambo Club, Jim Kaminsky) you will have the best selection of Lambos in Moroso and a decent selection of Ferraris. On the twisty turns of Moroso your Lambo will not stand a lap time chance vs the 360 and I would take a nice bet not against a 355 either. You are obsessed with 1/4 times. Nitpicking what the Lambo will do beter but losing sight over the big picture. I hope the Audi engineers will not do the same because then Lambo will never be competition to any Ferrari and I hope they achieve this soon. Till then they are just not! | ||
| "The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 6051 Registered: 8-2002 |
Allan  | ||
| Pat Pasqualini (Enzo)
Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 775 Registered: 2-2002 |
go to lambo-talk com | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 741 Registered: 6-2002 |
Oh all this racing talk, lets see, since Lambo does not race, how do we all know that a 360 will beat a Diablo on a roadcourse? If you look at the Nurburgring lap times, a course that is very difficult, lots of turns, hard braking etc, both cars posted the same lap times, and the Sv used was 510hp early model with lesser brakes than mine has, also sans the adjustable suspension that mine also has, not to mention the additional 20hp mine has. Both the Murcielago and the Diablo Gt, destroyed any Ferraris posting. I also have on video, a guy in a 360 Challange car vs a guy in a Diablo roadster at Moroso. Through the turns the 360 could outrun the Diablo, which by the way is the heaviest and slowest, worst handling Diablo, but the Diablo could stick close enough to it to blow right past it again in the straights. | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 360 Registered: 11-2002 |
Well, I've been out of the market for a while, but when I sold 'em, they were going for about $360,000. That was in Sept of 2001. I'm probably waaay off with that figure today...but then again, I've been a starving college student for the past two years, and the last thing I wanted to do was torture myself by looking at 350 prices! What are the spiders going for now? Coupes? | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1394 Registered: 8-2001 |
$300K for 360? If that's in US Dollars, that's way too much even for a 360 spider. Where did you get your figure? | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 359 Registered: 11-2002 |
How can anyone here say that HP doesn't matter? If Ferrari is attempting to create suspension that rivals Lambo or BMW or whatever, GREAT! If Ferrari is attempting to create aerodynamics that rivals Lambo and BMW or whatever, GREAT AGAIN! So why all the fuss if Ferrari is attempting to create an engine that surpasses Lambo and BMW?? And my love with Ferrari started with the F40 back in 1987, when I read the R&T article claiming that it had 488hp. From what I've read on this website, everyone states that the F40 is a real beast with gobs and gobs of power. Why not put that power in the 360? When Ford is putting out a Cobra with 390hp (supercharged) and a Cobra R with 385 (n/a); when Dodge is putting out a Viper with 500+ n/a hp; when Merc is putting out 500+hp sedans; when Lambo is putting V10 hp monsters in it's read cars; why should Ferrari sit in the back and stay below the 400hp mark? Back in the day, Ferrari OWNED the hp market, and no American car company came CLOSE to the power that Ferrari put out in a road car. My opinion, I LOVE hp....there is NO replacement for it. And if I can buy a Cobra with 390 hp, great braking, .9g's of handling, and a great exhaust note for $35k, the $300,000 360 looks like an overpriced Rolex. Just my opinion.... | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 659 Registered: 11-2001 |
Hey Martin, I understand and not to confuse anyone that I'm trying to compare a 91 348 to a Diablo in power as it's obvious in comparison but just a step up for me and reliability issues is a big difference even comparing to newer Ferraris from my understanding. I feel weather you are driving a Lambo or Ferrari what's important is what makes you feel better about it, could be the sound, could be the growling torque, the looks, etc. and the reality is comparing the 2 cars and trying to put it in the same category doesn't seem to match in my books as they are apart from each other in my books till the Gallardo came out. I'm not taking sides on these 2 marques as it seems the models don't have any comparisons for me to consider as they do different things for me weather convertible or hardtop, 4 seater or 2 seater. I can sit in every car and they all give me a different feeling and that feeling is more important than the marque itself, the car has to please me for how I drive it and not to expect what the car can do for me. As I said before there is no substitute for experience. I remembered when I asked a question regarding why did you buy a Ferrari before and there is an obvious reason or reasons for it and that goes the same with Lambo. For the most of us I'm sure being able to afford it is the first otherwise we'd all have Enzo's and F40's and knowingly since you have what you drive it's also easy to defend your pride. I've passed that stage and from the ownership and driving experience with many makes I can now decide what is good for me and only good for me and not anyones else, so now I feel this war on HP or marques should come to an end as if you wanted my opinion on this I would say who gives a sh** because I don't, they are both money sucking toys in which the streets can't match their performance anyway. Gotta go now, you guys figure this out if you can...can't buy time..... | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1570 Registered: 11-2002 |
Clax, >>I wish this type of conversation would happen in person. I highly doubt Allan would be as ballsy.<< So true! I've had many discussions with other board members in person about Lamborghini vs. Ferrari and Porsche vs. Ferrari vs. Lamborghini and other marques as well. Classics vs. contemporaries etc etc. In every single instance people have been very respectful even when some comments (which could be construed as abrasive online) are mentioned. Most of the guys I've met from the chat are very pleasant folks who appreciate ALL cars. They just happen to hape Ferrari tops (or close to it) on their list. Cheers | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2722 Registered: 9-2001 |
Martin, it depends on what type of "real" track use ? While the 360 may very well run quicker lap times around a tight road course, the Lambo would kill the 360 around an oval or a high speed road course such as Monza . The Lambo would win at the drag strip and on top end too. So one out of five is not bad for the 360 I suppose. | ||
| "The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 6044 Registered: 8-2002 |
Yes Martin....Let's look at them!!! | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5202 Registered: 5-2001 |
As for my fellow Ferrari friends, making the argument of Lambo being Audi/VW be careful here. Ferrari is Fiat in the same sense that Lambo is Audi. Except that Audi has the better racing heritage than Fiat does! Especially with last decade racing. So the technology advantage is on the Lambo side here guys! Just look at the new gearboxes they produce. They are years away from Ferrari in that department. Just a thought! | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5201 Registered: 5-2001 |
What I am saying is that the overpowered Diablo does not hold with the girly underpowered 360 in real track use. If all one can do to impress by adding Nitros....God, you may as well buy a Pinto and achieve the same result. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5200 Registered: 5-2001 |
Allan, I am not sure why you will not let go defending the Lambo so bitterly. Apparently you think you have to. A very good friend of mine and Squid Brother had 2 Diablo GTR (race cars) as well as a 360Challenge. He liked both cars but at the end of the day the 360 got more track use than the GTR. He also owns a XJR15 Jag race car (which I have for sale BTW). He sold his two GTRs and I believe his F40 and will take delivery of his new.....ENZO in two weeks. Since he owned both the 360CH and the Diablo GTR he has the best comparison of them all. He sold the GTRs, that should put an end to that discussion. I can let you know what he will think of the ENZO by this winter when he had some track use in the car. Go figure! | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
Junior Member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 170 Registered: 4-2002 |
David: I agree with your observations. I guess I must admit that I always associated Lambos with the "gold chain crowd" which was more interested in being seen in the trappings of wealth whether it be a big house, Rolex, or an expensive car with flash. I always wondered if that generalization was unfair. Certainly, Allan seems to fit that stereotype. He really is rather pathetic. Lets just hope he eventually gets tired of his juvenile rantings and goes to LamboChat or somewhere(anywhere) else for good. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2720 Registered: 9-2001 |
This months AutoItalia magazine has some great articles on Lamborghini's history and line of cars past and present. While I have owned six Ferraris and no Lamborghinis, I think they are both great Italian marques. The Miura is BEAUTIFUL ! And, remember, without the competition between the two companies Ferrari may not have ever produced the Boxers, TRs nor 550/575s. That competition is what brought us what we call the "supercar". The facts are that Lambos are usually faster in acceleration and top speed than their Ferrari counterpart. The Ferrari is usually faster on a road course. So, buy what you want but understand that both marques are great and dependant on each other. As to racing, now that Audi owns Lamborghini I expect to see them start a winning racing program soon. | ||
| Nick Yim (Yimn)
New member Username: Yimn Post Number: 49 Registered: 11-2002 |
Guys, what are we arguing here??? If HP is the only thing one cares about in a car, then we should all go get a truck with 1000HP with half the sticker price as a Lambo or Ferrari. What you need really depends on what type of road you drive on most. For me living in Hong KOng, I need handling, braking power and light weight to tackle the twisty road. A Lamo (used to be a Diablo SV owner), with its weight, is totally useless to me. I guess if where you live has a lot of open road, a Lambo is better but I can get even bigger HP by mod a Skyline for a fraction of price of a LAmbo. However it is much more difficult to mod a car ro achieve the same handling, downforce etc a Ferrari offers. Net Net, HP is cheap (turbo charging etc) Handling is much more expensive. On this count, I have to say Ferrari wins. | ||
| Clax (Clax)
Junior Member Username: Clax Post Number: 87 Registered: 10-2002 |
I wish this type of conversation would happen in person. I highly doubt Allan would be as ballsy. | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 329 Registered: 1-2003 |
Allan- Are you a typical lambo owner? Before I purchased my "girly 360" I talked to many Ferrari owners and liked what I heard. Not a bit like you. Although I have never met you, your posts reveal much about you. I'm hoping you are an exception to a typical lambo owner, as I'm sure the group would be ashamed of you and not claim your loyalities for the Lambo Marque. Every post you make takes away a little more of my enthusiasm for your beloved Lambo. Please stop before I loose it all. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 570 Registered: 6-2002 |
I think it's the paint... Seriously, I want an F50GT on the road. 1995lbs (yeah.. take that lotus) And *750BHP* at 10,500rpm! Now THAT is a car! Best! Ben. | ||
| jake diamond (Rampante)
Junior Member Username: Rampante Post Number: 124 Registered: 4-2002 |
Mark--You've captured my thoughts pretty well. One more thing I could add, history and tradition are great and important but I don't think they play a major role in a mega purchase today --image, desireabilty and perceived impact are more important to this eras' consumers. So, Ferrari cannot afford to sit back and say "we are Ferrari"; You know--nobody ever thought PanAm would go out of business!! | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 722 Registered: 6-2002 |
Great idea Fiat, Ferrari or soon to be GM guys! | ||
| "The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 6023 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mark, I second that. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 564 Registered: 10-2001 |
Hey Audi! or VW or Lambo... what ever you call yourself now? Forget the Horse Power wars! You want to kick ass with the Gallardo? How about starting a warrenty war? Now! we are talking about something we can all use! Give me a 7 year 70 mile bumper-to-bumper and watch how long the waiting list gets for a new Gallo. Also, if you want to give me some cool innovation...how about a clutch engineered that is easy reach, fast to replace. | ||
| "The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 6017 Registered: 8-2002 |
yawn | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 730 Registered: 11-2002 |
Allan, I disagree. Lets see, many peoples first opportunity to buy a Ferrari puts them in the GT4 or 308 market ... hardly rocket ships. They buy them because they want to own a Ferrari and want to experience the driving involvement. The fact that it does 0-100 is x seconds probably does not worry them at all ... it is a bonus. Now the person who buys an Enzo, that is a different story. I definitely would not buy a new Ferrari, because I like the older more classic shapes, and as long as the performance is acceptable that is all that matters to me. If I want to go fast, I would not waste my money on a Ferrari or Lambo, but go racing in something like the sports sedan series in Australia (6 litre Chev v8s in 600 kg space frame race cars ) ... now they are fast. Pete | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1074 Registered: 1-2002 |
allan: I admire your resiliance, I really do ( no satire. while I'd hope we could talk about this without name calling.) But, somehthing you (and maybe everyone) should try to understand is that there is no "perfect" car, it's an impossible quantity; the means and measures of perfection vary by each person, and by each situation. While some cars come close, or fulfill (satiate, perhaps??) different "needs" not one will do everything, for everyon, perfectly. It's not possible. And while cars may be beautiful, sound glorious, drive with breathtaking speed, it still isn't perfect. There will always be something that I won't like, or you won't like, or any one of the 6 billion people on this planet, and ALL this is irrespective of make. No ferrari, no lambo, no porsche, nothing will ever be "perfect", and while they may come very very close, they still aren't there, overall. I think, and hope, that the automitive industry will continue to orbit the event horizon of the black hole that is perfection forever, because if it ever falls in there, it'll be a boring fu cking world, no? Then again, I'm just a 23 year old reformed science geek. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a slave cylinder to change, a tranny to flush, and some sound deadining material to dry ice out of my car. Have a good night. Hubert. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 718 Registered: 6-2002 |
Im happy being Boobman, aslong as your happy being Assmunch. | ||
| "The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 6016 Registered: 8-2002 |
Hey BoobMan, you have been smelling too much of your aftershave or your goldchain ripped out too many back hairs. Your IQ is showing again | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 715 Registered: 6-2002 |
Mark, to answer your what if question, Id buy an Enzo if that were the case. | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 478 Registered: 9-2002 |
So...Tell me about driving around at High RPM | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 714 Registered: 6-2002 |
Again, comparing a 360 Challange car, set up for the track to stock Lambos. In the turns no doubt you should be faster, on the straights, they will blow past you with no problems. I too had a 360 for a week, not impressed wih it. PSk, if you read, you will see someone else posted about the magazine numbers, i answered the question. Get real. NO ONE BUYS FERRARI NOT CARING ABOUT THEIR PERFORMANCE. NOT ONE PERSON HERE WOULD SAY NO TO MORE POWER WITHOUT SACRIFICING RELIABILITY. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 563 Registered: 10-2001 |
What-if? What if Ferrari made 500 Enzo's a year for the next 5 years and priced the car at $300k I think Ferrari owns the "you can't have one" market. But I'll give the supercar market to Lambo. In my what-if question, would we still have guys like Allan? Jumping all over Ferrari's. And I'm worried that in the Jr Super car Market Lambo might take that also with the new Gallardo. It will be interesting to see what Ferrari does next. Will 460hp be enough? We all had Miami Vice and Magnum P.I. TV shows to bring so many fans to the 80's and 90's Ferrari. And Ferrari was so Wild with its shape and look. No one had that. I know Ferrari never has to worry about losing its old Blue Blood Crowd, or racer die-hards. But what will the new teenagers think of Ferrari 30 years from now? You need a lot of new blood... to keep the used car market as strong as it was in the last 20 years. Just pray Lambo doesn't land its cars in a hit TV show. Ferrari faces a lot of new problems. The market is closing in all around. I wish them luck in the path they take. I hope they continue to impress us all. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 729 Registered: 11-2002 |
Allan, Maturity may eventually find you ... get past the numbers man, it is a road car, who cares! Pete | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 516 Registered: 6-2001 |
Actually, I have been tracking a slightly modified 360 Challenge (420 bhp), and on the long tracks (Pocono), it could definitely use another 50 bhp on the straightaways, as long as the balance and neutral handling don't change. Need this extra power to keep up with the DeTomaso's with the monster big blocks. Thank god they can't brake or turn for s--t or Ferrari would really be in trouble. As far as the lambos, raced against a bunch of Diablos and a Murcielago or 2 and had no trouble holding them off. I'm not that impressed by the Lambos, although they look pretty cool. Give me a 450-500bhp Challenge car any day. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 710 Registered: 6-2002 |
You guys are getting pretty rediculous in your arguments. Since none of you are into hp, everyone is a track racer, no one plays on the street, you should all sell your Ferraris. and go buy the little Lotus Elise, which will wipe the smile off just about every Ferrari owners face. Pretty pathetic. As for Don the Morons last post on the 0-100-0 challange, again, im glad it makes you feel better to compare the 1,000,000, or sticker priced 700,000 Enzo to a Murcielago. My question to you is, where would any obtainable Ferrari, including the F50,F40,575M,550,girlie 360 be in this same sprint? Yes, your right, far behind. By the way, according to Motor Trend, the Murcielago would only be about 1 second behind, with a 0-100-0 time of 12.71. So, when i change the exhaust on my Murcielago, which also saves about 100pds, change the air filters, i'll be right up the Enzo's ass with 400,000+ in my pocket, in a car that is obtainable and better looking. Now when i add nitrous.....lol | ||
| Sebastian (Sjblaw)
New member Username: Sjblaw Post Number: 25 Registered: 3-2003 |
This thread reminds me of the battles I have read on here about ferrari ownership v. porsche, etc. Ferrari ownership is about FERRARI ownership, not the biggest or most powerful, but big and powerful nonetheless. In the real world, where most of us live, we are not going to procure 0-100-0 numbers, nor should one want to...and really why would you need to!? Who cares if your ferrari has 400, 460, or 560 hp? Its a Ferrari man. It looks good, sounds good, the list as we all know, goes on and on. I have a CL55 which I will tell you is quicker, faster, more comfortable, more reliable, and more reasonable all around than any Ferrari I own, or have owned. And ya know what, with all its perfection, smoothness, and 493 hp... it ain't no Ferrari brother! Let the number-crunchers, the Road & Track geeks, and other gearheads who rather brag that another can can hurdle to 60 mph in 4.2 seconds, instead of 4.3 seconds have their moment in the sun. They cannot appreciate throwing that silver ball through those beautiful silver gates and hearing the engine race as you launch forward. Let them have the .0001 second and the 60 hp, and I will take the smile and the thrill. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 727 Registered: 11-2002 |
Good post Martin, 100% agree. In the end with modern technology there are many other manufacturers that are now producing REALIABLE practical cars that go just about as hard as Ferraris. Look at the BMW M5, 4 seater with reliability that is a far better road car than any current Ferrari ... if you take all the road car requirements in to account. And I am sure Mercedes make an equivalent. It is rediculous that when a mate turns up and you want to go for a drive in your Ferrari, that the wives and the picnic gear have to follow in another car behind. It is time for the top speed and HP wars to stop and for Ferrari to ensure its survival by continuing to make the driving experience extremely emotive and dare I say it more practical and reliable ... we have far to many opponents to choose now a days. No longer can Ferrari continue to make cars that are 50 mph faster than the rest, those days are gone. Cars like a modern version of the 246 Dino are the direction I think they should be heading, ie. enormous fun and rewarding to drive, beautiful and sound fantastic. And all front engined cars should be atleast ocassional 2+2s. The F550 is absolutely huge, and it must be close to the most space inefficient design of any car on the current market. Pete | ||
| "The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 6007 Registered: 8-2002 |
Anyone wonder what Allan "boobmans" take on the 0-100-0 test where the Enzo bet the Merc by 3 seconds? SO much for the 1/2 mile test he loves to brag about. | ||
| James Lee (Aventino)
New member Username: Aventino Post Number: 29 Registered: 6-2003 |
Martin mentioned innovation at the start of the thread and I think Ferrari needs to go at least two variants, a lightweight racer the 360 CS which it does and a regular model that is 4 wheel drive. My reasoning being that more people find the car more reliable and livable on a daily basis than Ferraris before and for a crap snowy freezing rainy night (ie real world conditions) it makes the car more competent. I think that could be engineered in without changing the handling characteristics or weight too much. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 562 Registered: 10-2001 |
The reason we saw the "360 replacement getting 460hp" thread blow-up like wild fire, is because Ferrari has entered a new world. In the past Ferrari looked fast, and was always a mystery car. Many exotics looked faster then they were. Now, many cars look sleek and low. And many cars are faster. And with the web and video games and mags at the news stand, everyone knows it. Now that the 360 replacement has shocked all of us. (come on, how many of you hoped the next 360 would blow all these sub $100k vettes and vipers off the front page of the Magazines, with something like Enzo magic.) 360 getting 460hp has just let us all know that we will be spending a lot more time defending Ferrari. We are paying twice as much, with more small car company problems, for less HP! I don't care. I'm not a track guy anyway. But it makes for more dumb arguments at the local pub. Lots more. | ||
| Me Myself (Kid_enzoz)
Junior Member Username: Kid_enzoz Post Number: 89 Registered: 4-2003 |
Due to saftey features and so forth... car's, IMHO will only get heavier... I mean... look at a car from the 1930's and compair it to even a normal everyday Jetta. Nowadays it's cheaper to add more power than to make everything out of composites and leave the safety at home. However, I feel we are in a high hp 'muscle car' era now... (if you disagree look at the Subaru WRX STi/new EVO FQ-300/ the Euro Cosworth Focus and other rally monsters, new BMW M's, VAG supercars, American sports cars with 4-500bhp for under $100k, etc.) I think the tire technology isn't and probabyl can't keep up with engine technology. Plus, it's easier and cheaper to give a car an extra 100 horses than to lighten it 1000 pounds. It would be faster if it was 1000 pounds lighter though... | ||
| John B (John_b)
New member Username: John_b Post Number: 31 Registered: 5-2003 |
Personally, I feel the 360 could use another 100 to 200 HP. But then again, I've never driven a car or motorcycle that has "enough" power. Don't get me wrong though, I love the 360. | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 638 Registered: 1-2002 |
Often it is more fun to drive a car with less power at 9/10ths than a powerful car at 5/10ths, especially on the street. Having just spent Sunday driving my 328 200 miles mostly on twisty mountain roads, I don't have much appetite for big HP. Even at high altitude which sucks a lot of power out and my 6'4" 200+ lb buddy riding shotgun, the 328 had enough power to be plenty entertaining. I would gladly more HP for weight reductions. I just don't like the way heavy cars feel, even if their numbers on paper show blistering acceleration and tremendous grip. I have a 360 replacement on order even though I have no idea if I'll even like it, but I hope so. Dave | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1561 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>And fat pigs to boot.<< Although I'm too young to have lived that era I have had a chance to drive several muscle cars in my time and they are true straight line machines. The engine burble is intoxicating. Just make sure you are in a well ventilated area. Those big blocks have a tendency to make people pass out in enclosed spaces if left running. I'm not track racer so I can't say that the market trend is doing something stupid with all this horsepower. In my limited capacity of street driving and occasional romps through deserted twisties I feel there is more than enough horsepower out there and also think that a higher horsepower car is probably not the answer. Nevertheless, I do find it amusing and pretty cool to have cars out there in the 400-600hp mark. Personally I'm into classic cars, and money aside, I'd take a classic over a contemporary car in the same price range just about every single time. 0-60 of less than 4 seconds is scary fast for me right now. I can live with a car with character that will do it in 7 seconds. Just like we sometimes critisize owners who purchase cars simply for collectibility and rarely street them, I'm sure there are people who track cars who laugh at us fools for getting these road scalpels and putter along highways at 1/10s and never or rarely track them to wring out more of their potential. Cheers | ||
| jake diamond (Rampante)
Junior Member Username: Rampante Post Number: 123 Registered: 4-2002 |
I agree, Lomotpk; Like it or not, Ferraris are status symbols, (as are Rolexes, boats, planes, et.al.). If one does not think so, then you are not on planet Earth. Please take into consideration that the majority of actual Ferrrari owners do not even know this site exists (as I have read in numerous posts). But every owner I've had the pleasure to meet enjoyed showing off his vehicle. Very few are racing their cars on a track; some here may detest the fact that an F-car is a status symbol (i.e. poser), but I would venture to say the rest of the world does not agree. If status/posing is not for you than I would have to assume you purchase no luxury items or if you do, you keep them hidden away. To each his own. | ||
| TC (Houston) (Tec)
Junior Member Username: Tec Post Number: 130 Registered: 2-2002 |
I don't have a lot of experience with high HP cars, and I've only driven the 360 for about an hour or so, but I must admit it has all the HP/torque I'd ever need. I'm a high rev's kind of guy anyway, so this car suits me perfectly. I couldn't imagine it needing more power. Now make it a little lighter, that might be something. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1464 Registered: 12-2001 |
Remember the HP wars in the US in the late 60's before regulation and the gas crisis converted all of us into vega/pinto drivers? Now, those cars (the muscle ones, not the vega/pintos) are cherished collectibles. And fat pigs to boot. (Man, even a vega or pinto is probably collectible these days, given how few there are left). I think the only answer is to have more than one car. You know, the high performance one and the classic. I suppose you can combine both into one car, but there will be compromises at any price point up to the ridiculous. And, even then, the car will have to be designed with emphasis on one facet over another. Then again, if i had some millions, just give me a 375 MM. Classic looks and balls to the wall acceleration, even today, yes? | ||
| Richard Ward (Lomotpk)
New member Username: Lomotpk Post Number: 42 Registered: 5-2003 |
Performance + Posing = Exotics(Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, cigarette boats, Gulfstream V's, etc.) The ratio of importance of the factors depends upon the audience one is associating with. Two extremes: Hubert (Performance 95%, Pose 5%) Allen (Performance 45%, Pose 55% or more if one is being unkind) My 02 | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1559 Registered: 11-2002 |
At what stage are the HP wars going to get ridiculous to the point that car makers are going to concentrate on taking some weight off these vehicles? I think some of these engines exactly the way they are minus a whole bunch of weight would be just as exciting as an additional 50 or 100 hp. Cheers | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 881 Registered: 4-2002 |
I think this discussion has a lot to do with those who measure cars by numbers and those who measure cars by feelings. I used to want the fastest car on my block, with the stickiest tires, all the goodies,..... Then somewhere in my mid-40s, either I slowed down (not likely) or cars suddenly got fast enough (probably). All in all, I just don't seem to NEED a car that is any faster than about 5.0 sec 0-60. Any car that accelerates this fast has enough velocity at the top end (150+) that an added 50 MPH is YAWN territory; I won't ever use it, so why bother.... If I want something really fast, I can always get on my motorcycle (0-60 in 2.9, 1/4 miles in the low 12s, way faster than am I) What I want in a car is the sensations of feeling at one with a car, feeling the contact patches squirm as they fight for traction, making dozens of millimeter correction to stay on line with the tail hanging out WOT through a 80->110 MPH turn (like turn 2 at TWS). Sure; I like to drive fast, but I get more pleasure out of driving at 10/10s in a car that feels part of me, than going a little faster in a car that is a lot faster. An F40/F50/Enzo at 8/10s can blow off a F355 at 10/10s, but the driver at 10/10s is getting more of his buttons pushed (if he is like me). Life is NOT numbers! Life is feelings and memories. Ferraris are filled with more feelings and memories than any amount of numbers can overcome. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1593 Registered: 2-2001 |
bragging is part of owning a ferrari? since when? It seems as if the only people bragging about why their car is so superior are lambo owners who come here. Go to the Lambo sites and see if any Ferrari owners go there to brag. Ernesto | ||
| jake diamond (Rampante)
Junior Member Username: Rampante Post Number: 122 Registered: 4-2002 |
Why not, that's a part of having a Ferrari. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1073 Registered: 1-2002 |
>>Bragging rights are part of the game. Sorry! Otherwise, you go and buy a pretender to the throne.<< Bragging rights to what? YOur ability to pose well? | ||
| jake diamond (Rampante)
Junior Member Username: Rampante Post Number: 121 Registered: 4-2002 |
Bragging rights are part of the game. Sorry! Otherwise, you go and buy a pretender to the throne. Jake | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1072 Registered: 1-2002 |
Lap times would show the difference, but not neccessarily b/c of hp. THe 355 also has a better chassis (easier to drive at the limit), brakes (later braking, less fade, more consistent pedal feel, better modulation and improved ABS software), and, if it's an F1, then that deducts a lot of time by shifting and revmatching for the driver, lastly the HP difference and more torque would give the 355 an advantage on corner exit (more tug), and on the straights. My 170 wheel horsepower honda can go toe to toe with the big boys in the corners, but if I'm not 4 - 6 car lengths ahead on corner exit before the straight, I'm •••••• on corner entry, unless I want to block and am willing to take it in the shorts for yet another black flag, which my gentlemenly driving etiquette won't let me do. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5199 Registered: 5-2001 |
back to the old question: I think that we are getting sucked into a frenzy of HP right now. The original tread proved that by comments about this and that car "overpowering" the other. The question is, does the 360 need 460HP and who is capable of using these HP other than at the dinner table bragging to their friends. I think the innovative side loses in this battle over HP. Where are new ideas? Where are the new innovations like the F1 shifter in the late 90s, the slip control, ABS in the 80s, airbags in the early 90s. My point is, if I blindfold DES and drive him hard in a 348 and then the 80HP more 355 he will not be able to tell the difference. You know by looking at it if you konw the stats. Thruthfully if you drive both and do not know the stats you would never suspect it is that big of a gap, 25% more HP. What is the point of all of that? |