| Author | Message | |||
| Eric Eiland (Eric308gtsiqv)
Member Username: Eric308gtsiqv Post Number: 924 Registered: 11-2001 |
Martin....you have mail (quite a bit I might add)  | |||
| L. (Testaroja)
Junior Member Username: Testaroja Post Number: 66 Registered: 5-2003 |
I drive my testarossa every day, theres no point in owning a car to only drive it a 1,000 miles a year. I would never consider paying little money for a good ferrari, a cheap ferrari means big trouble. | |||
| adrian low (Audionut)
Member Username: Audionut Post Number: 300 Registered: 4-2003 |
Thanks Byron. I'll definitely email you if I cannot get the info I need. A 355 Spider owner I know bought his in the States, and as part of the importing requirements, had to install some bumper part. Cost $15,000 CDN, about $11,500 US. In the govt webpage, the 355 is listed as a car that can be imported as long as required mods are done. Also says all other models not listed cannot be imported. | |||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 991 Registered: 10-2002 |
Adrian, I sold my U.S. '92 NSX to a gentleman in Ontario. He told me that it required the following: 1) Tariffs to be paid prior to the car entering Canada 2) The certificate of title had to accompany the car 3) The car had to be "held" at the border for inspection for a period of ... I think it was 6 days?? Other than the obvious paperwork you have to fill out for the car and duties, I'm not sure there is any really big obstacle to overcome. Sorry I don't have more information - I can get hold of the original buyer if you really want more info. Email me offline. [email protected] | |||
| adrian low (Audionut)
Member Username: Audionut Post Number: 298 Registered: 4-2003 |
Martin, I'd take the car in a heartbeat, but I can't seem to find out all the info about importing TRs into Ontario. The gov't page doesn't even list TR as a model, the implication is that if a model is not listed, it cannot be omported. Yet I know of a guy recently who tried to sell his car, registered in the US, to a dealer in Canada. Apparently it must be possible. Tom Bakowsky, do you know? | |||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 990 Registered: 10-2002 |
Eric, don't let him get away with just lunch. I got a date with a beautiful german girl with my purchase!  | |||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5278 Registered: 5-2001 |
How can I tempt you more? I throw in a lunch in Miami | |||
| Eric Eiland (Eric308gtsiqv)
Member Username: Eric308gtsiqv Post Number: 919 Registered: 11-2001 |
Very true, Martin...was probably being a little too over-skeptical on my part . BTW, the TR you're offering is getting VERY tempting! | |||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5271 Registered: 5-2001 |
Eric, with all due respect, that may have JUST been the story! Why should there be more story to it? we have several members here that do not drive their TRs or other Ferraris for that matter more than 800 Miles in 1-2 years. | |||
| Eric Eiland (Eric308gtsiqv)
Member Username: Eric308gtsiqv Post Number: 918 Registered: 11-2001 |
Yes, Testaroja(L.)...I just saw that car in person a couple of weeks ago, and spoke with the salesman about it. Two owners ago experienced engine damage that required a complete rebuild, and the recent owner just traded it in (for a Maser. if I recall) after only putting 800 or so miles on her over a 1 or 2 year period. I walked away scratching my head and wondering what the real story was. | |||
| L. (Testaroja)
Junior Member Username: Testaroja Post Number: 64 Registered: 5-2003 |
Henryk,,,,I posted the first time after reading your original post, then I started to read all the other posts and I finally understand you You ARE OUT OF YOUR MIND, STOP DREAMING, YOUR VALUE GUIDES ARE ONLY REAL IN YOUR DREAMWORLD, SO WAKE UP AND START DRIVING...by the way testarossa/512 doesnt mean that the guy thinks that they are the same thing, I think that you know better than that, stop playing with words. And are you a car saleman??? | |||
| L. (Testaroja)
Junior Member Username: Testaroja Post Number: 63 Registered: 5-2003 |
I cant believe that you think that the testarossa is worth so low, maybe you dont own one and if you do then it most be a piece of garbage to be worth so little to you. Right now you can check some testarossa cars for sale in the ferrari of north america website. Theres a 1990 with 50,000 miles for $68,000 and I know of it, I live in central florida. | |||
| Brian W (Jetx)
New member Username: Jetx Post Number: 44 Registered: 6-2003 |
JRV, There is also large portion of the Ferrari owners who have a hard time 'affording' these cars. You'll find someone selling <insert> for whatever the average asking price is. These are also the same guys that have place orders for brand new 360s/550s/etc. As their delivery date draws nearer and nearer, many seem desperate to sell their cars, and at huge discounts (and I mean huge). Not because they need the garage space (often the reason specified) but because they need the money. Just another take on it | |||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 2027 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>While eBay certainly isn't the end all be all for pricing and sales, I think it says something about what's hot and what's not. << Ebay has it's place. Like you state, what's Hot & what's Snot...also it's a good indicator of how Liquid those Liquid Assets really are. Ebay has a very short time frame for Ferraris because it typically takes 3-6 months to sell a used Ferrari and want adds in Multiples of places to Find & then put a real buyer together with the car he/she is looking for. Even though there are Lotto winners several times a week nationwide, not all of those Lotto Winners may want a particular used Ferrari. This thread has multiples of guys who claim to have "shopped" for 6-12 months beforefinding the right car for them. That should tell the sellers something. Selling Ferraris is very difficult, expensive and takes quite a long time to find "the right" buyer unless one gets really lucky. Therefore any FAST sale of a Ferrari will be at a steep discount . For example, since putting a BB512i add on the sales site 6 guys have startted threads looking for the best Boxer, only one has emailed me and not a single one has asked to see the car. So there is a Huge Disparity between the number of Shoppers and the number of Buyers at any one given time. | |||
| Brian W (Jetx)
New member Username: Jetx Post Number: 43 Registered: 6-2003 |
I remember when eBay was the place to dump any car and fetch a lot of money. How many actually went through with the deal, who knows. But for 1 month I monitored a bunch of Ferrari auctions to see what sold, what didn't, and what the starting/ending price was. Here are those numbers in an attachment.
While eBay certainly isn't the end all be all for pricing and sales, I think it says something about what's hot and what's not. The semantics surround ebay could be debated all day, but I thought it was interesting. | |||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2740 Registered: 9-2001 |
Martin, from our conversation I believe that FOA doesn't have any for sell that cheap because they try to keep top quality cars in their inventory and a $39k TR is not likely to be a top quality car. As a dealer FOA always warrants the cars they sell and service and a $39k TR is likely to be towed in a few days or weeks later for some major work. | |||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5265 Registered: 5-2001 |
Frank: ....yet they do not have one for sale at that price now do they? | |||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5264 Registered: 5-2001 |
Don, does not fit your 308! Trust me! Hendryk, I know how frustrating it can be trying to sell a good car. Some of that frustration you just got. Sorry about that! Your car is worth more and will catch a better sales price than the $40K you were offered. EBay is not a vital indicator for pricing. It is advertising Just as the Ferrari Market Letter is not! (Sorry Gerald) These are market indicators. 355 SPiders are not selling for $135K anymore neither can you buy them for $60K. Your TR is worth $ 50K possibly some below. Your car has high miles (thank God). I know there are dealers that will offer you above the $40K for your car. I concur with you though that it is best to drive it for another 100K Miles and then part it out or sell it cheap but get some tremendous miles driven with a great machine. BTW there is no difference between US and EURO Testarossas in 1985 except some emmissions stuff that lets the EURO look better than the US. | |||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2738 Registered: 9-2001 |
When I mentioned to the sales manager at FOA that I heard of a TR selling for $39k, he responded with "...how many do you want for that price..." Boy, I'm glad I traded my TR for a 330GTC years ago. | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 955 Registered: 8-2001 |
Jeff: When I had my 88.5TR for sale.......totally U.S. original, with Tubis (had the original exhaust also)........I could only get a REAL offer of $40K for the car. I assumed that a Euro version of an 85TR would have to go for less. I concluded, that, due to "minor" problems with the 85, as stated in the ad, this would offset the mileage and major issues.....since my TR had no such minor issues. THAT is why I thought that the 85TR was worth less, and assigned the value of $35K to it. Granted, this was pure speculation on my part, however, some of it was due to my dissapointment when I realized what, and how low, these cars like mine are worth!!!!!!! Apparently, most people think that I am wrong, and feel the prices are higher. Maybe, after 10 months of having my car for sale, I just didn't get those people that wanted to pay more. I REALLY did wish I was wrong........but the $40K offer doesn't confirm it, and the dealer's offer of $35K seemed to support my theory. After review, I felt it best in my interest to just keep and enjoy the car.......seems that I can sell it for $40K any weekend. Martin: You obviously know more of these Ferrari prices than I do. I admit that I was SPECULATING, based on the results of my "one" attempted sale. It seemed that I let the 512TR price issue get out of hand. Sorry for the implication of Florida dealer.....didn't really mean it. | |||
| "The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 6125 Registered: 8-2002 |
Martin, Do you part out 348's? I am looking for a 348 transmission ;) | |||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5258 Registered: 5-2001 |
Jeff, Hendryk started this conversation under: "1985 testarossa for $39,000 TOO much!!!" Although everybody is entitled to his/her own opinion making references to his 25K Miles higehr 88 Testa with an old major service trying to beat on the price of this car is out of line. I may have taken this a little hard since it is a clear reference to my posting on the Testarossa I have on e-bay. He does not know my car, neither has he made an attempt to know the car but slams my car comparing it to his high miles car which co-incidentally did not even sell so he does not have a true variable to compare sales prices in the first place. They are called SALES prices not What I Want to Have Prices! But then I am just one of those shady Florida Dealers we all hear about....! | |||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5257 Registered: 5-2001 |
Funny Ron, I just poped into my leasing file and stumbled over an e-mail from Jan where you inquired about the 512TR. Looks pretty good that Hendryk will finally get these cars at prices we all want them. Maybe I should put some in stock. Ron, BTW did you talk to Kim at Putnum? How did he service you? Just for my info. was nice meeting you as well. We had a great time in LA. | |||
| Ron (Easy_rider)
Member Username: Easy_rider Post Number: 613 Registered: 12-2002 |
Martin, make that 4 512TR's. I am starting my search for a Red/Tan in great shape, service already completed, etc, etc. Hope to see you again soon. Ron | |||
| Jeff Green (Carguy)
Member Username: Carguy Post Number: 394 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'm baffled by this thread. Is the issue that the for the '85TR that $39k is too high a price, did somebody actually say this? Personally I think it's kinda low, a heck of a deal in my opinion for a sound car. I feel they are worth more, but I think that the bad TRs out there that are misrepresented are bringing the good TR values down. And most who want to sell finally "give in" cuz they don't want to hang on to the car forever. Looking through previous posts, I don't see where the Martin/Henryk issue got started. And it's none of my business to get involved. But I would like to ask: Henryk: Is your position that the 39K price is actually too low? That's my impression. Martin: Is your position that Henryk is saying your car is not worth your price? I get the opposite impression. I hope you gentlemen don't mind my asking these questions, as this conversation is out in the open. Thank You, Sincerely; Jeff | |||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5249 Registered: 5-2001 |
What is childish about saying out loud that your service was done 15K Miles away and mine 8K? You yourself said your service was 15K old! I can prove mine was done at 33,500 Miles! FACT! You, yourself state that your car had 65K Miles when you tried to sell it and mine has just shy of 41K, all I have to do is look at the odometer! FACT! I personally do not like Boxers! That is a fact, those that know me (and you are not one of them)have heard me for years say it. I plain do not like them! To me a boxer is valued at NOTHING, because I would not buy it! Since you are so smart: Value of a Testarossa should be $35K right but you did not sell your car. So I guess value must be higher then! Since value is determined by what sells and for how much that means your car is worth more than $ 40K. As a challenge to you, since you are so smart and know pricing so well: find me 3 512TRs at the $65K in good condition I need two red and one in pretty much any color except white! Since I am a slimy dealer from of all places Florida, I will pay you a $1000 commission per car! put up or shut up! | |||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 982 Registered: 10-2002 |
Henry, Whoa... lay off here, man... >>You are a dealer, from Forida no less.......your ONLY interest is to buy low and sell high........for PROFIT......nothing else. My interest is to own, drive and enjoy the car!!!!!!!! << Martin may be a re-seller from Florida, but does NOT deserve to be lumped into the same category of some of the other illegitimate dealers out there. I have not seen the 85 Testarossa in question, nor have seen yours. However, for you to say that all Martin does is buy and sell for a profit, nothing else? That is ridiculous. He loves these cars... he lives and breathes them. Hell, he probably drove more miles on his 348 in 3 years than you have in your 88.5TR going for $70k. Don't slam the guy for trying to sell a car. Just enjoy yours and hope someone else can be as fortunate as all of us to own such a great car as a Ferrari. | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 954 Registered: 8-2001 |
Martin: "Your last major was 15K old, mine is 8K old" "Your car has 65K Miles, mine has 40K Miles" Then you state you wouldn't want a Boxer for free. These, to me, are childish remarks!!!!!! You are a dealer, from Forida no less.......your ONLY interest is to buy low and sell high........for PROFIT......nothing else. My interest is to own, drive and enjoy the car!!!!!!!! This makes for a BIG difference in perception of the value of a car, even a Boxer. | |||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5248 Registered: 5-2001 |
So Hendryk, you have never seen my car! You have never talked to me about this car! You have no idea about any condition etc on this car! Your last major was 15K old, mine is 8K old You car has 65K Miles, mine has 40K Miles. Why should your car be worth more? Your boxer is worth nothing in my eyes since I hate the look of the boxer. It is one of the few Ferraris I would not want to have for free! Rather buy a 250GTE. Great that you think your car is worth so much more but since we do not have the two cars sitting next to each other....it is purely opinion and that at best clouded opinion since you are comparing to your own car. My tracktor is worth more than yours. | |||
| Tim Barnett (Tim_barnett)
Junior Member Username: Tim_barnett Post Number: 62 Registered: 4-2003 |
Henry, I applaud you for starting this thread. In reading your statements: 1. Looks were the real reason you bought your Testarossa and 2. No one would notice the difference between a Testarossa and 512TR unless you are on the track (an odd assertion given you admit you've never driven the 512) I thought you were in for a smackdown. However it was pretty subdued. (Is this now a kinder, gentler board?) I have to give you credit for at least driving your TR though. Fact is there are a great many Ferrari owners who care a lot about performance as well. Your assertion that TR owners care mostly about looks may be right, however I would suggest that those that purchase the later models (i.e. enthusiasts) are willing to pay a premium for the better car. | |||
| Robert Oglesby (Testar1988)
New member Username: Testar1988 Post Number: 23 Registered: 5-2003 |
Jim, RIGHT on!! I also have HRE rim's, doing Tubi this winter, with test pipes!! I had it out Saturday, lot's of head's turning!!! I Love it!!!! | |||
| Jim Avery (Boxer12)
New member Username: Boxer12 Post Number: 45 Registered: 6-2003 |
Buy one. They turn more heads than any other car on the road, even 360's and 550's.I, for one, wanted a Ferrari that still had that new car smell, so I found one with 6K miles. The car is awesome, and with a Tubi exhaust and HRE wheels, there is not a better sounding or looking car on the road. | |||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2768 Registered: 2-2001 |
The original TR was 1 of the most beautiful & most controversial and visionary auto designs of the 20th C. It had a great body & a great engine. With the 512TR it got a great chassis though the brakes & transmission still suck LOL | |||
| Robert Oglesby (Testar1988)
New member Username: Testar1988 Post Number: 22 Registered: 5-2003 |
I agree with Jeff, I looked for about a year for My Tr, I wanted black, 88 1/2 (5 lug) and the 30k done!! I looked all over the country/even thought about euro model and covert to usa!! They were much cheaper 30-40k range..the prices I found here in the us were from 50 to 80k, for black, 30k miles and under, and the 30k done!! I just don't see the prices I am hearing on this tread??? I would have loved to pay 40K for mine, but did not happen!! There was a ton of red one's in the low 50's, but not black when I was looking!! | |||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 586 Registered: 10-2001 |
Jeff- the photo in your profile of the black TR looks Great! Glad your enjoying it. I don't know any other car that looks soo good in Black, Silver, Red, Yellow and even maybe White. I've never seen a bad color on a TR | |||
| Jeff Green (Carguy)
Member Username: Carguy Post Number: 385 Registered: 10-2002 |
I bought my TR for a good price, but as many know I've worked my butt off for months getting it sorted and right. If you can get a TR well sorted and serviced, with a few trouble-free years ahead of it for 39k I think that is a great deal. I looked high and low before buying mine, and you do get what you pay for. I do not think it is fair to pay the same as "dealer trade-in value" for a TR because a dealer must also have room to make money on the car. I believe a good price is one that's somewhere in between trade-in and dealer selling price. I do understand that we all want the best deal, but low-balling and holding out doesn't get you in a car that you could be enjoying TODAY. And I think in the long run, hammering down prices hurts the value of these cars for all of us, even the new cheapskate buyers who don't even see they are shooting themselves in the foot. If I'm biased ( I know I am ) it's because I love TRs and hate to see them disrespected and thought of a second-class Ferraris. There is a heck of a lot of car for the money. I wish I could afford a "perfect" TR but I can't. But I would pay good money for the right car and not regret it. There is lots of talk about TR prices....people see a price of 65k and say I've seen others for 40k in Tightwad, Pennsylvania. I say "you better go buy it then!" They make it a game throwing out other's prices, that may be real or NOT. I suspect NOT most of the time. Bottom line, when you can buy a good TR for less money than a slightly used C5 Corvette, something is wrong with this picture. Lastly, as with any car, newer is usally better. You can say 512s are better because they are. But there wouldn't be any 512s without TRs first. It's a natural progression. TRs are not horribly designed, or to be scoffed at, just because there are newer more refined versions available. I think they age like a good wine, which by the way is what I'm doing in this post - whining. Well, I've spoken my piece and Thanks to all of you for listening. | |||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2767 Registered: 2-2001 |
I like the looks of the 512TR best of all the TRs & I couldnt see paying a $50,000 premium for titanium con rods & ugly wheels when I can upgrade to titanium con rods for less $ & buy much nicer looking wheels. Right now my 512TR makes as much hp as a 512M and had much better brakes. Will probably add Penske shocks next year so she will outhandle the M as well | |||
| Kds (Kds)
Junior Member Username: Kds Post Number: 75 Registered: 5-2003 |
Brian W..... Fair enough......I was just commenting because I always get the "dealer X will give me $$$ for my car....why are you offering a lot less ? and upon questioning it was on "trade" that dealer X quoted the number. Dale..... My thoughts exactly. I can't afford a cheap 512 Boxer......but I can afford a $35-50K TR plus a lot of recon cost. If I have to put another $25K into one over 1-2 years to sort it to my perfectionist tastes...so be it. It really doesn't matter what year and mileage you buy IMHO....they all need fixing sooner or later. It's going to be purchased as a keeper. I'd rather buy something "quite used" and pay the best guy in the business to bring it back to "my" standards the right way....and to keep it that way. I too think these cars are very undervalued......waaay more than they should be....for the reasons JRV and others state. That is one of the reasons I want one over a similiar priced 3x8 series car (which I think are very overvalued by some owners)....that and those 12 cylinders exploding inchs behind your cerebral cortex. | |||
| Brian W (Jetx)
New member Username: Jetx Post Number: 40 Registered: 6-2003 |
KDS, basically what I meant. Most people refer to it as 'trade in' even if they're not buying something else on the lot. The point is the same, and often the difference between a trade in and a check being written isn't that big of a difference. | |||
| Kds (Kds)
Junior Member Username: Kds Post Number: 74 Registered: 5-2003 |
Brian W.... "I am not interested in buying anything on your lot....what would you write me a cheque for today" yields the actual value of your car....the trade-in game needs no explaining as all the numbers in that scenario are inflated. | |||
| Brian W (Jetx)
New member Username: Jetx Post Number: 39 Registered: 6-2003 |
>>Until you have some data to back up your claim, it's nothing more than a personal opinion with no factual basis. No offense. << If you want factual "what are they worth" go to your dealer(s) and tell them if you were to trade in <insert> with <insert>, what they would offer you is what the car is worth. And that's what I used to buy my Ferrari. No, owners aren't offering their cars dirt cheap. but most of the cars for sale remain for sale a looooooooooooong time. Eventually they buckle. | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 946 Registered: 8-2001 |
I'm not here to argue with anyone. The value of a car, to me, is not that important. Since I now know the "real" value of my car, I will just enjoy it. I pity those of you who insist on low mileage cars.....you want them so that you could keep it low miles.......hence, not drive it much......then you hope to get your money back. WHY, on earth, would you NOT drive it that much? I have the answer, but it would only start an argument. I just got back from an ice cream cone cruise......total of 75 miles! In previous posts, I read of people calling the TR's engine "bullet-proof".......where is the logic in that statement, when high mileage cars are so feared? William: I have bought my car to only impress ME. You are an exception, since most people don't track their cars. If you bought it to track, then why didn't you go for the 512M, instead of the 512TR? | |||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2765 Registered: 2-2001 |
Henry the Tr may look like the 512TR but the 512TR is a far superior automobile. Thats why it gets a premium over the regular TR. I for 1 didnt buy my 512TR to impress people, I bought it to drive the H out of it on race tracks | |||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
Member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 284 Registered: 12-2002 |
HenryK, Where is YOUR data on actual selling prices that shows the 512 is $40k more than the TR? You say I can't argue with you because I am using asking prices - SO ARE YOU! Did you sell your TR for $35k? Until you have some data to back up your claim, it's nothing more than a personal opinion with no factual basis. No offense. Many people have come on this thread and said that the 512 is a much better car than the TR. The asking prices reflect this also. But you cling to your assertion that the 512 is not worth the money. People on this thread disagree. The market disagrees. Let's just say that YOU don't feel the 512 is worth significantly more than the TR - and that's fine, because you must be happy with your TR and I'm happy for you. | |||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 825 Registered: 7-2001 |
I think the wheels on the 512M are awesome!! | |||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1994 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>Folks, the real problem with the prices on TRs is that Ferrari made so many of them AND they are expensive to maintain. >> AND THAT'S THE FACTS , JACK !! ;-) The secondary market does not want a car with $2k plug wires and $6K tune-ups!!! Later Model Used Car Buyers are not looking for used cars that will beat their wallet to a pulp, even the original owners didn't want that, and it gets exasterbated as the buy in price falls to lower escelons of the food chain, when based purely on looks and price there are TONS of cars that are more appealing to those that want low maintinance used cars in their garage. I've driven quite a few 512TR's and they truly are the only way to go in the TR line, as they are light years ahead of the previous series imo. | |||
| James Lee (Aventino)
New member Username: Aventino Post Number: 40 Registered: 6-2003 |
Those wheels on the F512M were butt ugly. What were they thinking? | |||
| Greg (Greg512tr)
Junior Member Username: Greg512tr Post Number: 170 Registered: 2-2002 |
A BIG reason for low bid's on Henry's car was 63k miles, that is HIGH mileage for a Ferrari and lots of buyers will just pass on it. I attended via phone a government auction in LA and a 80 TR with 10,000 miles sold for $76k. So you can see why the asking prices for a low mileage 512TR are up there. Also there are so many fewer 512TR for sale at any one time it helps. Production numbers of 2,200 compared with over twice that for the regular TR's. 85% of the car changed from the TR to the 512TR. I don't see the 512TR and 512M pummeting in price like the 85-91. I like the description of the 512TR that it is a cleaner design and thus evolved into a more "classic" design than the original. | |||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2764 Registered: 2-2001 |
I'm sure the TR line will be up again but it may take more than a decade, meanwhile we get to enjoy cheap prices and buy our dream cars Thats not bad. The TR is such a beautiful design. I have a Countach 5000QV that I have decided to keep till the economy is much stronger. Maybe then I'll trade it towards an F40 or F50 when I can get some $$$ for it | |||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Junior Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 193 Registered: 4-2003 |
>>seating is better for taller people<< Pls tell me more. At 6'2", I barely fit in a TR. Does the 512 really have significantly more head room? Folks, the real problem with the prices on TRs is that Ferrari made so many of them AND they are expensive to maintain. To make matters worse, they are 80s cars and some folks brought them as an "investment." HW, I predict that someday, who knows when, we will see a resurgence in these cars similar to what happened to the Daytonas. (Remember C/4s sold new for more than the Daytonas.) It may take a while for the closet queens to finally come out; but sooner or later, you're gonna be kicking yourself in the butt saying, "Man, I remember when I coulda brought one of those cars for...." | |||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1992 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>Hmmm, good time to buy a stockpile of TR parts to feed my 512TR race car << Will you sell me some of the parts you don't need to hang on my walls (i'll frame them of course)?? ;-) ps: Ferrari wants $6500 for a new hood, wonder if they'll lower their prices when you can buy an entire car for less? | |||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2762 Registered: 2-2001 |
Hmmm, good time to buy a stockpile of TR parts to feed my 512TR race car Maybe soon I'll get a nice P4 replica with a TR engine, hope James G wont mind LOL | |||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1990 Registered: 11-2002 |
If the prices decline a little more it might be time to buy old TR's cut them up and make furniture out of them, finally getting them out of the garage art arena and into true art forms for the living room, like a nice TR engine coffee table. When this happens will it mean that TR's have arrived? | |||
| Jason Godsil (Godsil)
Member Username: Godsil Post Number: 277 Registered: 9-2001 |
Where can you find TR's for the $35-40K range? I did call Martin on this TR and though it isn't perfect I am considering dealing on the car because of the price. Where can I find a newer one that doesn't have problems for the same price? | |||
| Richard Ward (Lomotpk)
Junior Member Username: Lomotpk Post Number: 63 Registered: 5-2003 |
Steve M, Where are you going to look, NYC, Boston, etc? | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 945 Registered: 8-2001 |
Like Allan has stated: That he would like to "steal" a 512TR for $60K-$65K. The fact that he is willing to pay this price, does NOT make the value of the 512TR in the $80's and $90's (and more), that I see them adverised for......these are cars that are NOT selling. Hence if Allan can find a "steal" at $60K-$65K, then he is NOT "stealing" the car, since NO ONE is paying the higher prices. Hence, Allan is buying at a fair market price. Don't be swayed as to the value of a car, simply because dealers are asking that much for them......and NOT selling!!!!!! | |||
| Steve M (Steve308gtsi)
Junior Member Username: Steve308gtsi Post Number: 125 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks for your input Henryk. I fly out to NYC on Sunday and will check out a few while on the east coast. | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 944 Registered: 8-2001 |
Bottom line.....IMO: TR: $35K-$45K 512TR: $60K-$70K 512M: $80-$90K While the 512M is rare, it STILL looks like the TR. And, since we buy these cars to impress other, non-Ferrari owners, I just simply can't see it being worth the $150K that people are asking for them. Think about it.....you can by almost 3 512TRs for that. NO way is that car worth so much.........except to a museum. | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 943 Registered: 8-2001 |
Mike: The $40K difference is in the price offered for my 88.5 TR vs the prices being asked for the 512TR, and more. I didn't know about the different colors in the body skirt......mine are the same......my car is black. We buy the cars for looks, and most people don't notice the MINOR differences. If you want to pay $40K more for a 7 year newer car, then that is up to you.......you will loose a LOT as you put the miles on. The market place may not agree with me, however, the current market place reflect ASKING prices only, NOT selling prices!!!!!!! Unless you have REAL proof of selling prices, then you can't argue with me. | |||
| Steve M (Steve308gtsi)
Junior Member Username: Steve308gtsi Post Number: 124 Registered: 5-2002 |
The two major visible things I like about the 512TR over the Testarossa is the interior and the 18"wheels. | |||
| Steve M (Steve308gtsi)
Junior Member Username: Steve308gtsi Post Number: 123 Registered: 5-2002 |
I tend to agree that $20k more for a 512TR seems fair. Now hom much more would a 512M be worth? | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 942 Registered: 8-2001 |
Allan: The bottom line is $60-$65K for a 512TR. Based on the offers for my TR, I would agree with you. That is only $20K more, for a more powerful, and at least 5 years newer, with lower miles, car. It certainly isn't the $40K-$50K more that people, and dealers are asking. | |||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
Member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 282 Registered: 12-2002 |
Henry, Where do you get the $40k number? Seems like that may be the difference comparing an OLD TR to a NEW 512, but it's not like a 91 TR is $40k less than a 92 512! Personally, I would not buy a TR, but I would buy a 512. Reasons? First, I hate the wheels on the TR. The 512 has really nice and racey looking wheels. Second, I don't like the black body skirts on the TR. I like the same-color 512 body. Third, there are lots of SMALL changes that I don't notice until I see them side-by-side, that, TO ME, make the 512 look MUCH newer and more modern than the TR does. I don't think there is a $40k difference in price, unless you are talking old vs. new. Is a TR with 40k miles worth 40k less than a 7 year newer TR with 20k miles? To me, absolutely it is. You say "how can one argue...." Well, one doesn't need to argue - the facts are the facts. You say the TR has only slightly less value than the 512, which has only slightly less value than the 512M. The marketplace does not agree with your assesment, however. | |||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 841 Registered: 6-2002 |
60,000-65,000 | |||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 840 Registered: 6-2002 |
You cant say 10% more, because your looking at a big difference in years. So you have to factor that in. | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 941 Registered: 8-2001 |
Allan: I would be curious as to what "steal" price you are willing to pay for a 512TR. Care to share with us? | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 940 Registered: 8-2001 |
Allan: It is worth more......but $40K more???????? Even you admitted that you would only buy one if you could steal it. That saids it all, to me!!!!!! I would go along with Mark's 10% more. | |||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 839 Registered: 6-2002 |
Henryk, i believe that Ferrari stated there were more than 1000 changes to the 512. The front bumper looks much better, the wheels, the brakes, the back, color coded side skirts, engine sits lower for better center of gravity, whole car feels much better when you drive it, and it is much quicker than a Testarossa, which i found to be very dull. To me its worth the extra money. | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 939 Registered: 8-2001 |
clean looks: The difference is the badge stating 512TR vs Testarossa. Mech. upgrades: Only visible on the track. And your going to pay $40K MORE for this......when it comes time to write the check, I truly doubt that you would do it!!!!!!!!!!! If it is only 10% more, than the car should be worth $4K more, NOT $40K!!!!!!!!1 | |||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 576 Registered: 10-2001 |
512TR just adds that last 10% in clean looks and mech. upgrades, that makes the differance between a cute girl and a beauty queen. | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 938 Registered: 8-2001 |
It is interesting how Steve groups the two cars together "Testarossa/512". It seems that, to him, these are basically the same car......as I have stated. So, the question remains......why would a 512 be worth $40K more? As the TR prices come down, the disparity between them, and the 512 becomes greater......hence, lower prices for the 512TR.....AND the 512M. How can one argue this?????? | |||
| Steve M (Steve308gtsi)
Junior Member Username: Steve308gtsi Post Number: 122 Registered: 5-2002 |
I've always loved the Testarossa/512 and it is one of my favorite Ferrari's. To me it feels like a Ferarri. The new ones just don't do it for me although they are still nice. Yes a 360 is probably faster and handles better but I got bored of it quickly. I prefer a manual and the F1 trans probably had something to do with it. | |||
| Steve M (Steve308gtsi)
Junior Member Username: Steve308gtsi Post Number: 121 Registered: 5-2002 |
I've driven the 512TR and the 512M and could'nt really tell a difference as far as performance. The 512M is suppose to have about 12 more horsepower and maybe a little lighter. I have a opportunity to buy a 512M but would hate to take a big hit on it. I am thinking about it. I have just had an itch to add another car and right now it is between a Testarossa/512TR or Diablo. I think it depends on the right car coming along first. | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 937 Registered: 8-2001 |
Allan: What do you mean by "modern design"? They both look the SAME!!!!!! I have never driven the 512TR. From what I read it IS better than the TR. However, like I said, most people go for the looks and not the performance. The TR is MORE than satisfactory, to me, in its performance. While the 512TR is difinitely better, I just can't see it being worth almost $40K more.....I would rather have 2 TRs and use one as a spare. | |||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 835 Registered: 6-2002 |
Henryk, ive driven both a TR and a 512TR, and there is a very noticeable difference in every aspect of the car. it is also a much cleaner and modern design. | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 936 Registered: 8-2001 |
Allan: You wanting to "steal" a 512TR only confirms my point.......I hope you will find one to steal. The problem you may find is that, like me, I refused to sell. Teak: While the 512TR is faster, etc. than the TR, I still don't feel it is worth much more, unless one wants to track it........this is the ONLY place that one would notice the difference. I bought my TR for its LOOKS, like MOST buyers......so why would I want the 512TR, with the same looks, for a whole lot more. The dilema with the 512M is that it also has basically the same looks.......and THIS is what most REAL buyers go for.......NOT the performance.....IMO. | |||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 76 Registered: 4-2003 |
Bob: I'm up but I've got to leave the house for the morning drive at about 6:45, so I'm not going to be around for much longer. Got the note, no way in hell that will go for 50k. BTW, I think Joe was happy when I called him today, I'll give him credit on trying to refinance my main house and the lake house. Too bad (for him) that they're both paid off. | |||
| robert biscan (Tn_ferrari_bob)
New member Username: Tn_ferrari_bob Post Number: 20 Registered: 1-2003 |
Eric Did you get my e-mail and are you awake. I think the 512 is tons better than the tr due to braking, wheels and tires and seating is better for taller people. | |||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 830 Registered: 6-2002 |
I wouldnt, thats why i didnt buy it. There is a big difference between a 512 and a Testarossa though. I would never buy a Tetstarossa. When i find a 512 for a steal, i may buy it. | |||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1632 Registered: 11-2002 |
Henry, >>The problem is, with the 512TR, is that it looks JUST like the TR. Why would anyone pay much more for the basically the same car.<< There are substantial changes between the TRs and 512TRs. The car is a lot lighter and has more power. As for the 512M, I hope you are right (although I disagree) in that they'll plummet in price. I'll snatch one up in a heartbeat. I found out today that for about the same price as my Porsche Turbo I could've had a 512M. I wanted to kick myself. I have an emotional attachment to the car as it is the first Ferrari I've ever driven though. Cheers | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 935 Registered: 8-2001 |
Allan: Why would you buy a TR for $78K, when, after another 20K miles it will only be worth $50K? IMO With used TRs, with 40-60K miles, going for $35-$40K, how can anyone justify $78K, for the same car?.......regardless of miles!!!!!1 | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 934 Registered: 8-2001 |
Erik: The 400i is another car that is a bargain right now......if one wants a 4-seater. Steve: According to my experience, I think the 512TR is worth about $60K-70K, depending on mileage......but who knows when the owner disconnected the speedometer? The problem is, with the 512TR, is that it looks JUST like the TR. Why would anyone pay much more for the basically the same car. Granted, it is more refined, however, one would only appreciate on the track, and NOT on the real streets. Most buyers are buying to show off the car on the street, not the track. I think the 512M will loose BIG time!!!!!!!!! | |||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 828 Registered: 6-2002 |
I could of bought a nice 1992 red/tan, 20k miles, records, for 78,000. | |||
| Steve M (Steve308gtsi)
Junior Member Username: Steve308gtsi Post Number: 120 Registered: 5-2002 |
Henryk, You have a very good point. What would you think a 512TR would be worth in the real world? I have seen guys on ebay with starting bids at $90K and nobody even bids on these cars even though they have very low miles. | |||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 74 Registered: 4-2003 |
A 400i? | |||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 933 Registered: 8-2001 |
I think the 85 TR will go for around $35K, or less. This is from personal experience. I had my 88.5 TR, with 63K miles on it, for sale last Fall thru Winter.......in better shape than the 85.......and my highest offer was $40K. The dealer wanted to give me $35K for the car. The major on my car was only 15k miles old. I think the 88.5 TR (US model) is a much better car than a Euro version 85. Naturally, I decided to keep and drive the car....$40K was just too low, for me anyway. Since then I have put 7K trouble-free miles on my car, and am still driving it. This is the REAL world of TR car prices. I just can't help to think that at these prices, the newer TRs, with 20K-30K miles are NOT worth the $70K range people, and dealers are asking for them. I feel that my TR is valued such that I am better off just driving the car. With 200K miles on it, it still will be worth $30K......any less, then I will part it out. I can now drive my car another 100K miles, and only loose $10K......WHAT Ferrari can match that?????? |
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