| Author | Message | ||
| Justin (Justin)
New member Username: Justin Post Number: 26 Registered: 4-2003 |
Lee, Thanks for the input. I figured the dealer was talking complete rubbish. I'll let you know if I need anymore help with pricing. Regarding the RHD issue, I know people who have had similar issues after buying cars from France and Germany. Two people I know of ended up using a German car broker to sell the car for them. The car stayed in England until sold and the car broker took care of shipping arrangements etc. The only issue was that the buyers only put up 50% or so until the car was delivered. This is something that you might want to consider if you haven�t already. You won�t get as much money as you would selling it yourself of course, but it will save you a lot of time and unnecessary hassle. Dave, I have a sheet of paper in front of me with pricing for 360 spiders, each with less than 7,500 miles and the asking prices run between $140,000 and $160,000. Now, assuming there is room for negotiation, as there invariably is, these cars could probably be had for between $135,000 and $150,000, which by my calculations is less than or equal to 130,000 Euros. I believe this is the number I quoted somewhere below. Admittedly I misquoted pricing in the very first post as that pricing information was from when the Euro was much weaker and excluded conversion etc. As to barely getting a 355 spider, there was also a 2000 355 F1 Spider for sale with 6,143 miles that had an asking price of $86,000. Oh, and when did the UK become part of Europe? It�s a shame, I lived there for all those years and never figured this out. I�ll have to let my family know that they don�t need to wait in the foreign passport line anymore when traveling in Europe! ;) Justin | ||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Member Username: Dapper Post Number: 743 Registered: 4-2002 |
Justin, If you think a 360 spider can be had in Europe for the figures you are printing you are on some sort of drug mate! Some of the rediculous figures you are talking will barely just about get a good late 355 spider In the UK (which is Europe in case you weren't aware) for a 10K miler, if you could find a car from a reputable source you will need between �120K and �135K sterling, which is about $190K. Agreed 'mainland' Europe is a little cheaper but not to the tune of much more than 20K less. Whilst 360 spiders may be all over the place over there, particularly on the West coast, over here they are still quite unusual on the roads and seen as one of 'THE cars to have'. Consequently prices are strong and firm. I can assure you if 360 spiders could be had over here for the sort of money you are dreaming of I'd be running around in one instead of making do with a 348 | ||
| lee randle (Leer)
New member Username: Leer Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2003 |
I'm from UK and I have a few comments to make. Firstly which ever dealer said that European models are less reliable is rubbish. There all made at the same place with different Ferrari parts for the European/US markets. He's only putting you off, so he can make a living. Secondly, The Euro rate makes a big difference to the amount you spend and recently you guys arent getting such a good deal. However, if you can save yourself $40000 dollar on an import, your never going to lose that amount if you come to sell it. I bought my left hand drive from Germany and have used it in England ever since. I am having trouble selling it in England as everyone wants a RHD, so I'll probably have to take it back to Europe or even US and sell it there. If you want anymore infor on European prices let me know, I have a few good contacts over here. As regards warranty, a Ferrari is a Ferrari wherever it is in the world. don't let those dealers put you off ! Lee | ||
| martin j weiner,M.D. (Mw575)
Intermediate Member Username: Mw575 Post Number: 1091 Registered: 5-2001 |
The catch 22 in all this is that for most problems the computer is necessary for diagnosis which the independents do not have.So one must go to the dealership. Once that "check engine "ideogram lights up it's off to the dealership. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2127 Registered: 6-2001 |
If you're a risk taker this might make sense. I'd want to save over 50k before I did this. Without a warranty, if something did go wrong, this could be a very costly mistake. Art | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 1122 Registered: 9-2002 |
Interesting. I had always believed (maybe I'm completely off) that the Lamborghini dealers are pretty friendly service-wise, with exception to that a**hole Matt at Stanford Euro (although the rest of the Stanford Euro guys are A-grade. Rich was the best car salesman ever). --Dan | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1735 Registered: 11-2002 |
By the way, I didn't mean preowned, which is fair game. But new cars...forget about it. Cheers | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 1113 Registered: 9-2002 |
Lamborghini isn't as bad, from what I've seen. At least the guys I know in the area. --Dan | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1733 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>Depending on where you live, certian Dealers will go far out of their way to make your life miserable if you don't buy through them<< That's not just with Ferraris either. With Lamborghini, if you want to buy a certain car in your area you have to buy from the dealer in your area. Otherwise a big pain in the ass with delivery and other crap. And yes, they will make you wait when it comes to servicing and stuff. Dealers in general just piss me off when it comes to new car sales and service. If it isn't warranty, go independent. Cheers | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 2034 Registered: 11-2002 |
Martin, I don't want to get involved with trying to solve nightmare F1 trans issues or other electronic nightmare problems (that dealers can't even fix in under 4-5 tries) [  ].. 550's are a different story..they are not a problem, but 360's..only if it is an old time good client..but I'm not going to take on nightmares off the street just for drill, not on 360's anyway. [ ] | ||
| Brian (Bjc138)
New member Username: Bjc138 Post Number: 6 Registered: 9-2002 |
Justin, Ferrari's originating from Switzerland are amongst the cheapest in Europe. Check out these sites for prices. http://www.autoscout24.ch/search/list.asp?make=27&modellike=360%20spider&yearfrom=2001&cur=CHF&zipcountry=CH&tot=11&page=1&language=ger&sort=price&mediacode= http://www.car4you.ch/sea_det.cfm?country=ch&language=de&stylecode=10&step=10&model_index=0&modbck=1016&stylecode=10&referenceID=&make=65&bodytype=10004&model=1016&minprice=&CurrencySea=Local&maxprice=&CurrencySea1=Local The Swiss franc to US$ is 1.3636, making the SFr.210,000 car price equal to US$161,338 (before negotiation!). Let me know if you need a reputable dealer contact here in Switzerland. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5298 Registered: 5-2001 |
JRV, if the dealer does not want your biz then take it to guys like JRV who do apprechiate the biz! Since you have to pay for it anyways might as well go independent! | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5297 Registered: 5-2001 |
Let me make a calculation of what I have seen and truthfull I have not followed the 360 Spider prices lately: THEN!!!! 2001-2002 360 Spider 1000 Miles US model $ 220,000 EURO in US converted for resale: $ 180,000 self import $ 165.000 I would not spend the extra $40,000 for the warranty. My personal opinion. Once the warranty is over the EURO and the US will trade at about $10,000 difference. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 2033 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>Does anyone know of any good reasons not to buy a car in Europe, have it DOT converted and then import it into the US? << Depending on where you live, certian Dealers will go far out of their way to make your life miserable if you don't buy through them exclusively. Houston is a good example of one of those places, probably Dallas also as they're owned by the same people..the phrase they coined to explain this situation goes like this, quote, "If you don't buy from us, you won't be part of the Family"..unquote. maybe that means if you buy cars only through them at whatever they feel like charging, they invite you to Mommas house for spagetti dinner every Wed. night? [ ], but I don't think so. So it would be prudent to check with the Dealers in your locale to see how they feel about Euro Cars and how they treat Euro Car owners. | ||
| Justin (Justin)
New member Username: Justin Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2003 |
Continental Europe. France, Italy etc. The UK is the only place that I know of where 360 prices are equivalent to the US. | ||
| L. (Testaroja)
Junior Member Username: Testaroja Post Number: 69 Registered: 5-2003 |
Justin, where in europe? | ||
| Norman (Storminnormin)
Junior Member Username: Storminnormin Post Number: 200 Registered: 7-2002 |
I spoke to an independant Ferrari mechanic recently, and he said one of his main gripes with Euro-conversions is that the hardware used to convert the emissions equipment is of an inferior quality to that used in US-spec vehicles. I asked him why they don't just use US-spec emissions equipment, and he replied that it is too expensive. The convertors want to maximise their profit so they use cheaper hardware. I don't know how much of this is true. Just passing along what I heard. | ||
| Kendall Kim (Kenny)
Member Username: Kenny Post Number: 359 Registered: 9-2001 |
Warranty is an issue, but FNA is not responsible for any recalls distributed for euro 360's, you have to pay out of your own pocket whereas any authorized Ferrari dealer will fix a U.S model for free.. Depending what the recall is, this could offset much of the money you save on a Euro Ferrari... | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Junior Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 200 Registered: 4-2003 |
Martin, You certainly know more than I do. I had a couple of long conversations with D*ck at Amerispec about this. He had one Euro 550 that came through an estate that was very tempting. All I know is that out-of-warranty Euro F-cars tend to trade at a discount to their US cousins. Why, I'm not sure. I got the speedo story from several places. In my case, I was able to get a really good deal on a US 550. But for a while there, I was really tempted. Thx | ||
| martin j weiner,M.D. (Mw575)
Intermediate Member Username: Mw575 Post Number: 1090 Registered: 5-2001 |
Do not think the speedometer is "replaced" on the Euros. The only change in that area is that Kms are changed to mph but the odometer is not touched.At least that is what happened with my Amerispec 360 euro. This topic has been discussed up the Gazoo.Look under 360 Euro in the search. | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Junior Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 198 Registered: 4-2003 |
Here's my 2 cents, cause I looked at this last year... Amerispec is supposed to be one of the top converters. Just make sure that you go through an approved shop. On a brand new car, of course, the warranty is the issue. $$ to $$, you can save maybe $40k. Is this worth the risk? Who knows? On an out-of-warranty car, there should be no difference, but the market (i.e., dealers) still charges a 10% to 15% discount for out-of-warranty Euro cars. Why the discount? The most commonly heard answer is that you can't verify the mileage on a Euro car because the speedo gets replaced. The thought is that the original owner could have picked the car up in Europe. Driven the hell out of it. Shipped it to a US converter, who replaced the speedo and, bingo, you have a new/used car with delivery miles. How many times this actually happens is debatable. However, enough people believe to cause a permanent discount. What are your thoughts Martin? | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5272 Registered: 5-2001 |
You may be better off looking at a EURO that is already in the Country and is already converted instead of going through the hassle. Pay that little extra and still save big $$$. My 2c | ||
| steve tsalidis (Hanzofstone)
New member Username: Hanzofstone Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hey fellas, keep in mind now that the Euro is beating the sh*t out of the U.S. $ the price of the euro car will be a bit higher than last year.Good Luck | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 4216 Registered: 9-2001 |
its less attractive now than last year - while prices have come down the euro has appreciated 20%++. there is the euro stigma - warranted or not - no pun intended | ||
| steve tsalidis (Hanzofstone)
New member Username: Hanzofstone Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hey Scott, I purchased an 02 360 spider from Dennig cars last year. Kim Dennig met me in Munich where I picked up the car with 80 kilometers on it. Dennig is a very trustworthy dealer. If you need anymore info e-mail me at [email protected] Good luck | ||
| noel smith (Noel)
Member Username: Noel Post Number: 379 Registered: 2-2003 |
My car is a euro, i've had some problems with it but they are identical to common US spec cars. the cars are basically the same, you pay a premium for the warrenty, that's about it. do yourself a favor and by a 01 euro over a 01 US, you'll come out ahead. | ||
| Justin (Justin)
New member Username: Justin Post Number: 23 Registered: 4-2003 |
L. I don't know where you are looking, but I can assure you that used 360 Spider prices are nowhere near $200k in Europe, or rather, one need not spend nearly that much to get one. Again, I have seen 2001's with relatively low mileage for sale at around $130k Euros. Justin | ||
| L. (Testaroja)
Junior Member Username: Testaroja Post Number: 61 Registered: 5-2003 |
Used 360 spyders in europe are still close to the $200,000, but you can find 360 berlinettas for about $100,000. This conversion thing is worthy with the coupes, the high demand for the spyders keeps the value and price the same here as in the rest of the world. | ||
| Scott Levinsohn (Rennen)
New member Username: Rennen Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hi guys, I'm new here but was going to ask a similar question. I was looking around the Dennig Cars website, which advertises the advantages of buying a Euro car. Anyone have any experiences with them? | ||
| Paul Bianco (Paulie_b)
Member Username: Paulie_b Post Number: 485 Registered: 1-2003 |
Justin, my 360 is a Euro. Very happy with it. It is the 2nd Euro that I have owned since 1986. My first one was a 308. When I sold it in 1996, 10 years later, I got the same $$ as a US car. Don't let anyone give you the bull. IMO, the cars are the same today. | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
Junior Member Username: Minuke Post Number: 57 Registered: 7-2003 |
Faisal, You made your point! | ||
| Faisal Khan (Tvrfreak)
Member Username: Tvrfreak Post Number: 633 Registered: 3-2003 |
Gary, wouldn't that only be an issue while the warranty was in effect, ie. people not wanting to take the chance the FNA would not honour it. After the warranty expires, what's the downside of looking at a Euro-spec car? | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
Junior Member Username: Minuke Post Number: 56 Registered: 7-2003 |
Justin, You can save money by bringing in a Euro F-car and having it converted. The only problem with this scenario is when you go to sell it you will also get less money for it. In the pre-owned F- market I believe most people would want a car that was distributed through FNA. | ||
| Justin (Justin)
New member Username: Justin Post Number: 21 Registered: 4-2003 |
Yah, that's what I came up with for conversion costs. You can actually pick up 360 spiders in Europe relatively inexpensively now. About $110k-130k with under 10,000 miles from what I've seen. | ||
| Faisal Khan (Tvrfreak)
Member Username: Tvrfreak Post Number: 629 Registered: 3-2003 |
No problems. Except for Ferrari having a fit. Don't think the price is that low, though. Closer to $170k, IIRC. It's $12k for the conversion cost, and takes 80-90 days, including shipping to the east coast. | ||
| Justin (Justin)
New member Username: Justin Post Number: 19 Registered: 4-2003 |
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I searched the archives and din't come up with much. I'm just curious what people think of importing Ferrari's and DOT converting them vs. buying US cars domestically. Take the 360 spider for example. If you buy one used, even with moderate mileage, you're likely to pay $180k+ for it. Assuming it is a 2001, you don't have much of your warranty left. The same car, imported from Europe, including conversion costs, shipping etc. would run you about $120k. The financial rational for importing is obvious. There's a $60k+ difference in price at the end of the day. Does anyone know of any good reasons not to buy a car in Europe, have it DOT converted and then import it into the US? I mean, there's the rational the guy at a Ferrari dealership gave me "Why would you do that? The build quality and reliability on the US cars is way better. My mechanics disuade people from doing that all the time because they've encountered so many more problems with European cars than American cars." I had to laugh at that one...I just casually mentioned the idea to my girlfriend when we were gawking at the $225k price tag on the 2001 360 Spider in the showroom and the guy felt the need to set me right. Anyways, I'd appreciate people's input on problems they've experienced, heard of, etc. with importing and converting Euro Ferrari's to US spec. |