| Author | Message | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 2078 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>Why hasnt someone come up with a better tensioner/bearing that will last longer and preclude this maint sched.<< OR Why hasn't the 10's of thousands of posts talking about Ferrari Service Requirements sunk in yet? and become accepted practrice rather than something to find a way around? | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 823 Registered: 11-2002 |
This is why you never buy an ex-lease car as they really are driven into the ground. Anyway back to the belt versus chain thingy. Cam chains: Do not compare the final chain drive of a motor cycle with a cam drive ... completely different animals. The chain drive for the cams is a oil lubricated precise bit of engineering with the chain running under perfect tension all the time. A bike final drive on the other hand (with current crude designs) has to have the chain loose to allow for rear wheel movement ... plus the chain is in the open and thus lubrication suffers. Chain drives for camshafts are incredibly reliable ... very rare for one to break. The only time I have heard of chain failures it has never been the chains fault but incorrect assembly or the crank or cam stopped turning for some other reason. Thus a good solution for a road engine, ie. reasonably quiet, fault tolerant and importantly inside the engine so guarding is easy and less leaks to worry about. Okay the weight of the chain will slow engine acceleration, but who cares as you drive to the market  Cam belts: Belts are actually superior as they are light, very quiet, as accurate and nice and cheap to manufacture. They are actually extremely strong and very reliable on just about every other type of vehicle, and I expect as reliable on a 'serviced to the book' Ferrari. Most Japanese cars require that they are changed at 100,000 kms and they very rarely break. Why do they give this supposed trouble in Ferraris: 1. It is a myth. 2. All Italian cars leak oil ... bad for rubber belts. 3. Ferrari seem to not be able to design a tensioner as good as the cheapest Toyota model  4. People believe that if your car does not do the miles that it does not need servicing ... which is absolute rubbish, infact it needs far more servicing ... thus you could be actually wasting money, not saving it. Number 1 and 4 are the real reasons. Have you noticed that when you change oil that you get 2 figures for the next change, ie. miles and DATE. This is because the oil gets contaminated with petrol and thus your motor turns into a self reboring machine, as petrol is very abrasive. VERY BAD! Also have you also noticed how rubber if left in the same place for a long time, it takes on that shape. Well think about that F40 (assuming they have belts) with only 7500 km's on it. Those belts have sat in the same position for probably close to a year ... and then all of a sudden the motor is started!!! ... holy smoke watch out for the damage. Also for comparison, notice how your hot tap seal lasts 4 times longer than the cold tap ... why? Because the hot tap seal is kept soft by the heat of the water ... thus please get in your Ferrari and drive the car, and let it heat up and heat all those seals and belts to keep the rubber soft and flexible. In the end: 1. Follow the book and change those cheap belts. Yes they are cheap compared to a stuffed motor, and the many hours extra, plus all the other faults a good mechanic will find ... 2. USE YOUR FERRARI. It is a car, a machine and the best maintenance is using it. This also improves the tuning of your car, as it is being used and keeping itself clean inside and in the carbs, etc. I would rather buy a tidy 308 with 75,000 kms on the clock than one with 5,000 kms, because the garage queen will at the very least need a complete seal replacement. Pete | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 1088 Registered: 10-2001 |
Someone here developed a new tensioner system if I recall; there was much discussion on liability issues! | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Member Username: Davel Post Number: 301 Registered: 7-2001 |
The belts can probably go 100k miles. As Martin stated its the tensioners/bearings that give. Why hasnt someone come up with a better tensioner/bearing that will last longer and preclude this maint sched. | ||
| Ken A (Zff)
Junior Member Username: Zff Post Number: 106 Registered: 12-2002 |
Going back to the original topic.... My mechanic worked on a lot of 308s back when Magnum PI was popular and there were dozens of them being rented out. (I live in Hawaii.) Just about all of these rental places skimped badly on service, so he has a lot of experience with neglected 308s. According to him, the 30K interval on timing belts is extremely conservative for a well used car. He's seen cars go well over 60K on the original belts. The thing you want to be most paranoid about on a negelcted 308 is the cooling system. They have weak cooling systems and the engines react very badly to being overheated. | ||
| Robert Callahan (Rcallahan)
Member Username: Rcallahan Post Number: 286 Registered: 7-2002 |
Chains!, rubber belts!...for a second I thought I had accidently logged on to an alternate lifestyle site | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 910 Registered: 4-2002 |
"When you replace one, don't you replace it with one manufactured the same year as the original one? If so, what is the difference between one in your car in your climate controlled garage and one off the shelf at a dealer that is not even climate controlled? Pardon my ignorance, but just asking...?" The cam gear is held onto the cam itself by a flange. There is a system of holes in the cam Gear and cam takeout flange. A pin is used to set the timing between the gear and the flange. This allows ~0.75 degrees of accuracy to be used to set the cam timing specs. Therefore, the belts can be of ANY size that can be brought to correct tension with the tensioners. It just can't change length after being put into service. | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 300 Registered: 2-2003 |
Anyone who buys a car that needs the service, better factor in the cost of same I wish more sellers would understand this! Just because both cars were made in the same year, are the same color and have the same miles doesn't mean they're worth the same money. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 711 Registered: 2-2003 |
Chains here too. Sunny | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2199 Registered: 6-2001 |
If you buy a car without the service, then you need to factor in the cost of same. Anybody who drives a TR, 348 or 355 who doesn't service it when its due, is taking a chance. Anyone who buys a car that needs the service, better factor in the cost of same. A lot of these cars have quite a bit more mileage on them, than shows. I'd bet at least 50% of them have had the odometer checked. A tell tail sign is the driver's seat. They don't get the color out of them in just 10k, but most of these low mileage cars have been re-dyed. You figure. Art | ||
| Don Vollum (Donv)
Junior Member Username: Donv Post Number: 126 Registered: 1-2002 |
I think coachi has a good point. If the belts are subjected to lots of use and hot/cold cycles, well then you'll have accumulated lots of miles and thus be due for the service on a mileage basis. I suspect this is why people like Sheehan say changing the belts on a calendar basis is "bunk." | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 326 Registered: 8-2002 |
Coachi, The replacement belts are newly manufactured, the belts on the cars are under stress from the tensioners, and experience stress from starting the engine as well as heat cycling Rubber gets old and dries out, unless you put them in a humidor like a cigar. | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 552 Registered: 5-2002 |
The S2000 has a timing chain in it also. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 977 Registered: 8-2001 |
Back to the thread: While it is bad that owners don't service their cars, I believe that this trend will continue to increase as time goes on....less and less properly serviced Ferraris. While prices of Ferraris go down, the price of service, and parts, keep going up!!!!! How long will it be when it will cost $10,000 for a major, on a $30,000 car? Who, in their right mind will pay that? Since I do all my own service, I feel lucky.....and most parts can be gotten for much less than the dealer, at other sources. If it wasn't for this, I really don't think I would own one. Maybe parts will become cheaper as the low priced Ferraris start to become parts cars. | ||
| Eric Stringer (Vette79)
New member Username: Vette79 Post Number: 17 Registered: 12-2002 |
the one in your car has been subjected to many, many cycles of heating up and cooling down along with the fatigue of being run in an engine. especially a very HIGH rpm capable engine such as a ferrari. thats sorta like asking why a set of spare tires in your garage stay in better shape than the set on your car | ||
| Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Member Username: Coachi Post Number: 328 Registered: 5-2002 |
one important question about belts. When you replace one, don't you replace it with one manufactured the same year as the original one? If so, what is the difference between one in your car in your climate controlled garage and one off the shelf at a dealer that is not even climate controlled? Pardon my ignorance, but just asking...? | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Junior Member Username: Beast Post Number: 112 Registered: 5-2003 |
Ken; While a gear drive for the cams is the ultimate for precise can timing, there are a few down points. 1. Most gear drives set ups are very noisy since they are straight cut gears 2. There is a lot of inertia to over come on a gear drive if it made to last. 3. If the head or block is milled then you have to change the diamiter of the gears in order to get them to mesh properly. 4. Very exspensive to manufacture 5. Very time consuming to set up properly and just as easy to make a mistake and cause damage to the motor. Anyone who has performed Cam gear fitment on a Harley Davidson Evo engine or on a 750 Super bike, can tell you about how many wasted hours are involved measuring gears making a trial fit, only to have to start from scratch again. In every enginerring solution that are several choices to be made that require compromises to balance out the bad from the good. At least with a belt you can be assured that with proper service intervals the possibility of a failure goes down. Inspecting a cam chain would be more time consuming and messy than a belt. Also the chain cam look to be perfect and in length specs and fail with out any warning. | ||
| Jim Avery (Boxer12)
Junior Member Username: Boxer12 Post Number: 60 Registered: 6-2003 |
The major service on a TR includes about 50 hours of labor, and that is the biggest reason for the cost. Yoshi, it is required every 5 yrs or 15,000 miles, whichever comes first. Chains break too, in fact, I broke more chains on my older Harley and have never broken a belt on newer ones. Go figure. And guys, if Lambo is so smart, why aren't they in F1? | ||
| DGS (Dgs)
Junior Member Username: Dgs Post Number: 215 Registered: 5-2003 |
"Tick Tock Tick Tock Tick Tock Tick Tock..." Just where would this "time bomb" hide from an engine-out service? What's wrong with buying a car that needs a complete engine rebuild, if the purchase price reflects the need? I would have thought than having an engine-out service by your mechanic (instead of "just serviced" by the seller's mechanic) would reduce the chances of a surprise down the road. It doesn't take an exotic to be found in a barn.  . There are levels of "restorations". | ||
| Ken A (Zff)
Junior Member Username: Zff Post Number: 99 Registered: 12-2002 |
The most significant detail of a "major service" is new cam belts, right? Anything else -- water pump rebuild, gearbox stuff? I'm assuming valve adjustments, fluids and filters, etc. are all there. Besides new gear oil, does a major service include any gearbox work? | ||
| Ken A (Zff)
Junior Member Username: Zff Post Number: 98 Registered: 12-2002 |
How about timing gears instead? | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Intermediate Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 1584 Registered: 12-2002 |
The F40 at Newport Autosport only has 165 miles...Thast just rediculous! | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 595 Registered: 3-2002 |
Gold chains are better than belts | ||
| Crusing (Crusing)
Junior Member Username: Crusing Post Number: 102 Registered: 10-2002 |
"PS high revving Lambo engines have chains." Not Surprising... I bet they're gold! | ||
| William Henderson (Billh)
Junior Member Username: Billh Post Number: 67 Registered: 5-2002 |
I met a gentleman out at Limerock track two weekends ago who had a beautiful 89 TR with 3500 miles. he said he only drives the car to limerock and watkins glen. I asked him if he had the belts changed and he said "what for, it only has 3500 miles?" doh. | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Member Username: Davel Post Number: 299 Registered: 7-2001 |
"Everyone has gotten away from chains. They stretch, they are heavy and they are loud. Belts today are better than chains. Even Harley-Davidson has removed the chain as the driving force for their motorcycle and put on a belt." Ok...well tell that to Maserati and Ferrari who have brought out cars with chains and are bringing out new models with chains. Porsche has chains. Chains work and are stronger but have issues like every other mechanical system designed by humans. Overall chains seem better. PS high revving Lambo engines have chains. Always have. I dont think chains are on the way out versus belts. They are clearly making a comeback. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 662 Registered: 11-2001 |
Man if I went to a dealer that said that "They all leak oil" esp. at a Ferrari dealer, I would take the car elsewhere, cars built correctly and put together correctly should "NOT" leak oil, I would never own a car that leaks oil, I'd fix it or sell it to a person who can deal with all the oil drips in the garage or driveway. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2766 Registered: 9-2001 |
FYI, the black TR at FOA is costing $30k to repair which includes a complete engine, transmission and suspension rebuild as well as various other small repairs. And, he was offered $20k for the car unrepaired by TRutlands not FOA. | ||
| robert biscan (Tn_ferrari_bob)
New member Username: Tn_ferrari_bob Post Number: 21 Registered: 1-2003 |
If a new ferrari blew up you would never get a new car but they would repair it in 4 or 5 months. If you bought a new saturn or something you would demand a new car , it just doesn't work at the fcar store. I know a tr owner who got a major service at the dealer not too long ago and now he has an oil leak that he never had before and they can't get it stopped. They say they all leak. Mine didn't at all. The cost to remove the engine is stopping the fix in my opinion. The dealer doesn't want the repair bill either. | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 591 Registered: 3-2002 |
I looked at a FML 88.5 White TR and had the PPI done by Dikhran at F of BH towards the end of 02. I was just trying to figure out the ins and outs of TR's. I was just getting started. It turned out the owner had no records with the car and a service had never been done. The owner who had the car only six months insisted that since the car had only 10,000 miles, all it ever needed was oil changes. I asked if he would pay for an engine rebuild if the belts broke six months down the road ? He tried talking around that question. | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
Junior Member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 202 Registered: 4-2002 |
Crawford: Yes, it is black. I think an 85 or 86. With regard to the issue of mechanics possibly screwing things up, my father recently had a nightmare experience that actually worked out in the end. As some may know, the BMW M3 2001-2002 models were recalled for a possible defect in the oil pump that may have led to reliabilty issues. Several cars suffered bottom end damage due to cam bearing failures. He was certain that if he let the local dealer open it up to do the repairs that they would surely screw something up. I told him he was paranoid and everything would be fine. Well, he was right. The service took five days and as the Tech started up the car for the first time one of his expertly repaired cam bearings failed instantly!! He came up front and said...."uh, I think there is a slight problem....". Long story short my father got a new car and the mechanic quit the following day. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 2055 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>Then, in your best Mad Scientist voice, throw your head back and cry: "It's Alive! Bwah ha ha ha".>> That's funny...LMAO ! Tick Tock Tick Tock Tick Tock Tick Tock... KAAAAABOOOOMMM!!!!! { } | ||
| DGS (Dgs)
Junior Member Username: Dgs Post Number: 214 Registered: 5-2003 |
But there's always the bomb squad approach -- use the car's service history to lowball the price, then put the money into having a very very complete service. Then, in your best Mad Scientist voice, throw your head back and cry: "It's Alive! Bwah ha ha ha". | ||
| Anthony Griffin (Redjeeper)
Junior Member Username: Redjeeper Post Number: 53 Registered: 10-2002 |
He also confirmed JRV's opinion that there are lots of time bombs out there wiating for new owners. | ||
| Anthony Griffin (Redjeeper)
Junior Member Username: Redjeeper Post Number: 52 Registered: 10-2002 |
I just talked to the dealer at Ferrari South yesterday and he said that the owner of the TR is going to have the car fixed even though it cost $35,000. Go figure. | ||
| Crawford White (Crawford)
Junior Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 129 Registered: 3-2003 |
Mark - Was the TR in Atlanta black?? | ||
| Peter Cyr (Pete04222)
Junior Member Username: Pete04222 Post Number: 66 Registered: 6-2002 |
Whart, "So, i will betray my ignorance of engine design here, but why use belts at all? Didn't cars from the Daytona era and before use timing chains? And what about other modern high performance engines?" Everyone has gotten away from chains. They stretch, they are heavy and they are loud. Belts today are better than chains. Even Harley-Davidson has removed the chain as the driving force for their motorcycle and put on a belt. | ||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Member Username: Dapper Post Number: 746 Registered: 4-2002 |
"There was a person on this Chat board who was contemplating delaying a major service because he thought there was more risk in having someone remove the engine and possibly mess something up, rather than leave it in it's "original" state from the factory...things that make you go hmmmm. :-)" Tell ya what, as a result of the times I've had garages f@ck up many of my vehicles over the years when they've been in for service or annual MOT (roadworthy test in UK) I'm rapidly coming round to that way of thinking! | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1516 Registered: 12-2001 |
So, i will betray my ignorance of engine design here, but why use belts at all? Didn't cars from the Daytona era and before use timing chains? And what about other modern high performance engines? | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 775 Registered: 11-2002 |
Idiots. Pete | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1347 Registered: 5-2002 |
"an early series TR at FOA in the shop having repairs to the tune of $35,000 after his cam belt snapped at 55,000 miles. "The dealer has now offered the guy $10k for the car as is. " Please advise everybody on the board if the owner actually sells the car to the dealer for $10,000. I won't hold my breath. Once again, this illustrates a fundamental difference between the Ferrari world and other classic/collectable cars. The dealer KNOWS that $10,000 for that car would be a steal, as would anybody who is UNAFRAID to twist a wrench. (Do you really think that car would sell for only $10,000 on E-Bay?)Buy the car, pull the engine, start removing everything that is broken, evaluate what is left, and start moving forward with a rebuild. Unless of course, one is afraid of getting your hands dirty. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1368 Registered: 5-2001 |
Martin, So the inspection process may catch something BEFORE the prescribed service interval (and I can see the validity of having that done with annual fluid changes), but would you recommend exceeding 6-7 years between changing, and just keep inspecting? I wouldn't. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5351 Registered: 5-2001 |
Dave I somewhat disagree: You can inspect the belts on a regular basis and will find when they come lose. The belt may (not likely but may) show signs of wear, cracks etc. The belt dries from the heat/cold cycles it is exposed to. Truely the tensioners and pullies are the ones that give in most cases not the belt. If they do not hold the belt strong then you jump the timing and bang her eis your disaster. My economical calculation only works if you own the car from day one! On the 348 you can also hear the belt flapping against the housing when the engine is cold and just cranked up. Sign it is getting lose. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1367 Registered: 5-2001 |
Yoshi-san, No warning, and no way to tell or inspect (inspection tells you little). This is why it is recommended to replace them at 5 years or 30k miles (which is probably overkill on a 328). But you will need to have it done on your car pretty soon. I would say that 6-7 years is starting to push the limits of my comfort zone. | ||
| G.Peters (Wfo_racer)
Junior Member Username: Wfo_racer Post Number: 167 Registered: 5-2002 |
A friend of mine leases his 360. He has the fluids changed only and is driving the hell out of it. His car is on a 2 year program. His view point is the car is under warranty and since he will turn the car in less than a year he could care less. Let the next buyer deal with it. Primary reason why I never buy used. | ||
| Yoshi Ace (Tiger_ace)
Junior Member Username: Tiger_ace Post Number: 147 Registered: 5-2003 |
BTW, I forgot to put that I got this car in June. I have been driving about 700 miles now since then. | ||
| Yoshi Ace (Tiger_ace)
Junior Member Username: Tiger_ace Post Number: 146 Registered: 5-2003 |
Interesting posts! How do you know when your F-car needs repair? My car had majors done in 97, and accumulated about 7,000 miles since then. The car seems to run pretty good, and there is no leaks so far. Many emphasizes on taking care of cam/timing belts. Is there any symptoms before these snapps? | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 320 Registered: 8-2002 |
Bryon, No this was a 89, didn't see any other TRs They had a F40 for sale also for $450,000 with 900 miles (probably never serviced either) quite a few 360s,a few 355s, and a 88 328 | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 319 Registered: 8-2002 |
/ | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
Junior Member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 195 Registered: 4-2002 |
Martin: If I had the extra cash and needed another FCAR I think $39k for a car of that caliber with a racing derived V12 is a steal personally. Of course I have always loved the TRs more than most. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1365 Registered: 5-2001 |
There was a person on this Chat board who was contemplating delaying a major service because he thought there was more risk in having someone remove the engine and possibly mess something up, rather than leave it in it's "original" state from the factory...things that make you go hmmmm. :-) | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5348 Registered: 5-2001 |
drive it till the belt snaps appears a good economical alternative to me! | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
Junior Member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 194 Registered: 4-2002 |
Martin: You do have a point there!! They apparently offered him $10k for the car as is, which says something about the real costs to the dealer for repairing it. I just hate to see that type of neglect but from a strictly economic standpoint you are probably correct! | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5347 Registered: 5-2001 |
...now add the $35K to the $10K they offered and you get $ 45,000 for your car or better $40,000 you would have spend through its life (invest the money even and make interest on the $10K every 15K Miles) add those to the $ 10K offer and he is WAY ahead of the game, since the car is not worth anything accordng to some peoples believe! Heck I can not sell mine WITH the service for $39K and only 41K Miles! | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5346 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well think of it this way 55K without service. Accoring to our believe he needed already 3 services going to the 4th @ $10,000 a pop that is $ 40,000 in service so he is $5,000 ahead of the game. | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
Junior Member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 193 Registered: 4-2002 |
I have a good friend in Atlanta who recently saw an early series TR at FOA in the shop having repairs to the tune of $35,000 after his cam belt snapped at 55,000 miles. Hard to believe but apparently the car had never had the belts changed. No cure for terminal stupidity I guess. The dealer has now offered the guy $10k for the car as is. | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1014 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jeff, the last I saw, there was a 91 testarossa at Newport Autosports with 6400 mi asking for about the same price - no service had been done on it either. Is this the same one you're talking about? | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 278 Registered: 2-2003 |
JRV is validated once again. | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
Junior Member Username: Minuke Post Number: 70 Registered: 7-2003 |
Is that why most of the F-cars for sale have under 15K miles or 30K. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1364 Registered: 5-2001 |
Jeff, There a many examples of this. I bought a 78 308 GTS with 15k miles that had never had a major done on it, only fluid changes(car was 22yo at the time)! I personally know of a 91 TR with about 12k miles and no major, and the guy has plenty of dough to have it serviced, but actually believes it is unnecessary... I would estimate that at least 30% of Ferraris have delayed, or omitted services. | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 397 Registered: 2-2002 |
If you can get the car for $60K and have the dealer do the full service, it would be a good buy (assuming it passing a PPI). Ken | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5335 Registered: 5-2001 |
equity rich, cash poor ! | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 318 Registered: 8-2002 |
Whats up with these guys? I was in Newport Beach this weekend buying a Jeep and stopped by the Ferrari dealer on PCH they had a 89 Testarossa with 512TR wheels and 14k miles and were asking $74,900 The car was in exec condition other than stone chips up front, the salesman stated this was the owners first Ferrari and his baby, the owner also had money as he owned the quite a bit of real estate next to the dealership. But the car has never been serviced, not even a 15k, just oil changes and no records, the salesman started the car and was doing his selling bit but quicky shut it off after I said this car is a time bomb and what kind of fool who clearly has the money never changed the belts and put this many miles on it? Then the salesman threw in he'd split the service cost with me which was about $6500 and sell me the car for $65k, what a nice guy. |