| Author | Message | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 465 Registered: 4-2003 |
Brian, obviously there are many shops. The question started with: Who will do the 30K service for $5,000 in the immediate SF Bay Area????? That is what others in different geographic areas have paid for a 30K on a 355. | ||
| Mario B (Lawwdog)
Junior Member Username: Lawwdog Post Number: 70 Registered: 12-2002 |
Thanks everyone! See my other post entitled :post PPI negotiations stops purchase! | ||
| Brian W (Jetx)
Junior Member Username: Jetx Post Number: 52 Registered: 6-2003 |
Off top of my head, in Bay area there are plenty of Ferrari shops all with good reps: - Modena Motors/Tony Palladino [San Carlos](I recommend him) - Skelton Ferrari [Berkley] - Ferrari of San Francisco [Mill Valley] - a shop up in Daly City (forgot his name, Johannes?) [Daly City] - Silicon Valley Bentley (used to be Ferrari of Los Gatos) [Los Gatos] - Cammissa Motors [burlingame] - Sportscars Italiano/Prancing Horse [burlingame] - Italian Performance [belmont] - Patrick Ottis [Berkley] - Veloce [Campbell] So there's plenty of places that do this in the Bay Area, and many of these (Modena, Veloce, etc.) are highly respected. Forget how many mechanics are in the Bay Area, just pick a good one who knows his stuff and is recommended. I'm sure I left a few off this list | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 637 Registered: 6-2002 |
If he drove it REGULARILY, then it's probally fine for another 2 years or more. If he parked it for WEEKS AT A TIME, time to do the belt! Do it, you'll start *fresh* and take it to 8750 (fuel cutout) each and every time! Best! Ben | ||
| Mark Collins (Markcollins)
Member Username: Markcollins Post Number: 300 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mario Have the belts done, otherwise you will always wonder if it's going to fail everytime you drive it, and you'll keep the revs down just in case which defeats the object as the 355 only really comes alive around 6k revs! | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 464 Registered: 4-2003 |
Taek, "few" or " A Lot" are relative terms. There are MANY more shops in Southern California than Northern California I will guarntee. If you read my post it states that it is a function of supply and demand, COMBINED with geographic location. In our area who is doing a 30K (the correct way, not hack job) on a 355 for $5,000 ??? By including the replacment of the tensioners, the total parts will be around 1K with seals and belts . That leaves 4K for labor. I know that on a national level 4k for labor is the going rate, but again who is the shop willing to do it?? If you know of such a shop AND have references of OTHER satisfied customers, please enlighten us as it will help everyone. | ||
| Mario B (Lawwdog)
Junior Member Username: Lawwdog Post Number: 68 Registered: 12-2002 |
Martin, Do those cars have Odometers? laugh Martin..laugh | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1470 Registered: 11-2001 |
eh, martin, are you SURE that car's never been tracked?  doody. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5373 Registered: 5-2001 |
or you buy this 550 which has only 5,500 Miles and has never been tracked! Guaranteed  | ||
| Mario B (Lawwdog)
Junior Member Username: Lawwdog Post Number: 67 Registered: 12-2002 |
Dave, The car that did track events is not the one I'm considering. The track car was used as an example by a ferrari service facility to say " he drove the piss out of the car and did track events..his belt looked good) Mario | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1789 Registered: 11-2002 |
P.Thomas, >>In No. california there are VERY few F-Car service shops.<< I beg to differ. Within the SF Bay Area, you will find a good amount of people who can service your car. I can think of seven off the top of my head. And there are more. At one point this region had the most dealerships in one area. Cheers | ||
| Dave White (Dwhite)
New member Username: Dwhite Post Number: 39 Registered: 5-2003 |
Mario B. Guy drives the piss out of it on the street and does 6-7 track events. How the hell does he have only 11,100 on the odom of a '96 355? Another Ferrari mystery yet unsolved. I bet those darn 355 odometers don't work . . . yeah right. Just do the service and sleep well at night. | ||
| Mario B (Lawwdog)
Junior Member Username: Lawwdog Post Number: 66 Registered: 12-2002 |
P Thomas, Very well said and taken. Thanks for the opinion. Mario | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 462 Registered: 4-2003 |
Here is the scoop. 1) In No. california there are VERY few F-Car service shops. Supply and demand, exasperated by living in the HIGHEST cost of living Metropolitan Statiscal Area in the Nation (including Hawaii) results in the market value (cost) of a 30K running in the $7,000 plus range. That includes fluids, belts, tensioners, and seals. Add a water pump to that and some ancillary items and you are closer to 8K plus. By the way, in So. California where there are more F-Car service garages one would expect to pay around 5K for the same service. Again supply and demand combined with geographic location. 2) Guys, it is not so much of an issue of the belt being the primary cause for failure, the TENSIONERS are often what causes the belt to go slack and mash your valces into the pistons. 3) >> The car has never been revved over 6K<<<. Cars that are left sitting in a garage can develop cracks from the idle tension and could still fail. Yes some belts crack over time and some belts are perfectly fine after a 5-7 year period, but again what is happening with the TENSIONERS?? 4) It is entirely your call: Think of it as INSURANCE. A new top end will run 20K if your tensioners fail/belt breaks or goes slack. What is your risk tolerance to a 20K service bill if the catsrophic does occour?? Please do not let anyone make that decision for you. It is your car, your money, and you take the risk. By the same token, I would never let someone influnce me on when to replace my tires. I make that choice and I take the risks if I decide to postpone, or I pay today for piece of mind. | ||
| Toy 911 (Toy_911)
New member Username: Toy_911 Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2003 |
test | ||
| Jeff (Jeff_m)
Junior Member Username: Jeff_m Post Number: 185 Registered: 9-2002 |
Remember,the belt change is at the 30k service not the 15k. The "time" issue is not mentioned in the manual, it was created by the service people to drum up business by making people feel insecure about what will happen if thebelt breaks. That said, I am sure belts break but I would bet more often than not when the belt is replaced it is fine.I think if you want to drive it till the end of the summer you should be ok. | ||
| Clark Driggers (Clark)
Junior Member Username: Clark Post Number: 111 Registered: 11-2001 |
I bought a 95 355 with 5900 miles and FOA did the major before I purchased it . They told me they did it because it had been 5 years. The belts were in great shape. Luckily it was part of the deal and I did not have to make a decision. I did get a copy of the service order and for the major (belts, tensioners) it was around $4900 by Ferrari of Atlanta. I would have it done for piece of mind but not for 7500 Clark | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1466 Registered: 11-2001 |
scheduling your major with your mechanic well in advance (6 months to a year) so you can slot it into their dead-time will get you a better deal. for example, majors done in may are full price plus :-). doody. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5359 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mario, we talked a while about all kinds of cars. I hope you take my opinion to heart! Do the service but shop for it $ 7500 is WAY overpriced! I said is million times, it is not the belt that fails! It is the tensioners and pullies. Those are critical and they will allow the belt to slip! Don't be an idiot. It took you months to convince the wife, months to make the $$$ to pay for it put another few days of work into it and do the proper thing and save the hassle. There are guys in the SFO area that will gladly help you find a good mechanic to do the work. It will pay to have the car shipped to SFO and let them do the service for $4500. That is what it costs here. Make sure they call you when the engine is on the floor! See what else is needed then. The waterpump may be a good thing to rebuilt at that time. It was maily sitting in water and never properly used! | ||
| Mario B (Lawwdog)
Junior Member Username: Lawwdog Post Number: 65 Registered: 12-2002 |
TC, Nice analogy..don't women live lives like the Ferrari i'm buying? You know always getting close to the red-line but never really being at red line! I'll speak for myself...I'm getting to red-line sooner or later. And, Good point..I will probably do the major this winter. I don't want to lose driving time for the next 2-3 months. Jon, all of you back east must be getting price breaks. I'm not squeeking at the $2500 diferance but I need to make a purchase price adjustment based on the $7500 15K service. I want to be fair.. | ||
| TC (Houston) (Tec)
Junior Member Username: Tec Post Number: 159 Registered: 2-2002 |
Man, driving that car without redlining is like making love without, well, finishing. I'd get the belt done now. Not just for peace of mind, etc., but also because you're buying the car from a friend. If the belt goes a week later, you guys probably ain't gonna be friends any more. $7,500? I assume that the fact that the car needs service (and that service apparently is really expensive in your area) is reflected in the purchase price. Good luck. I'd like to pick up a 355 myself soon. | ||
| JON BAER (Bobaer)
New member Username: Bobaer Post Number: 48 Registered: 5-2003 |
In my opinion, I would do the Major service sooner than later. If you plan on keeping the car for a long time and would do the service at some point, there is no time like the present. As far as the $7500.00 cost goes that sounds pretty high. A major service here in the northeast would be $3500.00 for an independent and $5000.00 for an authorized dealer. Just think of it this way $5000.00 now or $20,000 when the belt goes. Also, most belts look good when you take them out, even after 5-8 years, however I would not take the chance. | ||
| Mario B (Lawwdog)
Junior Member Username: Lawwdog Post Number: 64 Registered: 12-2002 |
Mitch, Again, the owner is a close friend. He never took it to a higher rev band because "the car is quick enough for me without going there...these cars are beautiful to listen to(it has Tubi)at mid level RPM. He primarily took the car on trips of 300 - 600 miles at least 4 - 6 times per year. The last trip was 2 months ago to Santa Barbara...an 800 mile round trip from the Bay Area. | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 2455 Registered: 4-2002 |
ACTUAALY A FULL 30K SERVICE WILL COST ME ( HOPEFULLY NOTHING ELSE EXTRA LIKE A NEW CLUTCH, ETC) ABOUT 5100.00 LESS A 10-15 % DISCOUNT FOR THE WINTER SPECIAL BY A DEALER..THOUGHT THAT WAS VERY REASONABLE FOR A TR... REGARDS, BRUCE | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 908 Registered: 4-2002 |
Depending upon where you are, and whether to use an independent or the factory guys: A 30K/5yr belt change should be closer to $5K than $7500--Unless there are other things wrong with the engine/ancilaries. 11K miles is only 2K miles/year, almost garage queen teritory, and more likely driven more in the early ownership than in the latter. You, on the other hand, need to use the other 1/3rd of the rev band. Did you ask the present owner why he did not use the whole power band of the engine? In any event, you need to pull the engine and address the belts, if not immediately, then soon. | ||
| Mario B (Lawwdog)
Junior Member Username: Lawwdog Post Number: 63 Registered: 12-2002 |
JRK, Thats what I was planning on doing..I think that's sound advise....but it's nice to hear what the F-car brothers and sisters have to say. | ||
| Mario B (Lawwdog)
Junior Member Username: Lawwdog Post Number: 62 Registered: 12-2002 |
Bruce, Your ingnorance is pardoned....you bet $7500 but it does include all of the parts, fluids, and seals that Scott mentions. Shoot Bruce...you have a TR....you should be around the same $$$$$ for your service? Scott, The service I was quoted sounds damn close to what you said. | ||
| J R K (Kenyon)
Member Username: Kenyon Post Number: 554 Registered: 10-2002 |
Mario, Buy it, drive it for the summer anmd then change the belts during the winter months.... | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 4257 Registered: 9-2001 |
why wait, if you are going to own the car for a while give yourself the piece of mind now and enjoy, 8 years on a honda belt could be considered pushing it let alone an f-car. | ||
| Scott DeGhetto (Scott63)
Junior Member Username: Scott63 Post Number: 117 Registered: 4-2003 |
Mario, I would get the service done. The car is now 7 years old and should be given a major service. I also don't think the price for the service is that high depending on what is included. The amount of time for a major service is roughly 40 to 45 hours of labor if done correctly. Most dealers charge $90 to $100 per hour (at least in the NY/NJ area) The parts are very expensive, the timing belt is about 200 dollars and the tensioners run about 600. At this service all other belts and fluids will be changed as well as all of the filters, plugs and gaskets. My dealer also replaces alot of the seals including the cam seals and also rebuilds/replaces the water pump. Most good mechanics will also perform a compression and leakdown test at this time. I have heard of 30K services being done for $3500, but I would not touch a car that has had one of those budget services done... | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 2454 Registered: 4-2002 |
MARIO.. PARDON MY IGNORANCE BUT A BELT SERVICE FOR 7500.00?? DO THEY INCLUDE A WEEK IN HAWAII WHILE THE SERVICE IS BEING DONE ?? BRUCE | ||
| Mario B (Lawwdog)
Junior Member Username: Lawwdog Post Number: 61 Registered: 12-2002 |
Dave, I have the compression figures at the office..all were strong and within 5lbs of each other. I didn't have a leak down test done because the numbers were so high. Rick, Belt service here is $7500...I have 2 quotes so far. 1 from dealer and 1 from independant. You have the deal at $1500 - $2000! | ||
| Rick (Bromers)
New member Username: Bromers Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2003 |
Not sure why its any different in the US compared to the UK but the cambelts need changing every 3 years here. IMHO I would get the belts changed even if its just for piece of mind. The cost of a belt change here is approx. $1500-$2000. My engineer could fly out there and do the job for less cost than $7500 !! | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1392 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mario, My own opinion is that 7-8 years is starting to push my comfort level. Obviously there is some risk, and there are no garrantees in life...Personally I would go ahead and actually schedule the service for this winter. I would feel pretty good with that. Curious, what were the compression/leakdown figures? I hope to start looking seriously at 355's in the next month or two. | ||
| Mario B (Lawwdog)
Junior Member Username: Lawwdog Post Number: 60 Registered: 12-2002 |
Doody, Thanks for the opinion. I would think not going over 6K RPM is better than consistent red lines. He has kept up with every other service and I feel it's more a postive than negative. Mario | ||
| Mario B (Lawwdog)
Junior Member Username: Lawwdog Post Number: 59 Registered: 12-2002 |
JLM, Thanks! I'm tending to sway more towards your theory. I spoke with a Ferrari specialist here in northern CA today. He just did a 15K service last week on a 96 Spyder with 11,100 miles. He said the owner drives the piss out of the car on the street and does approximately 6-7 track events. he pulled the belt and it looked great. He said the new tensioners and belt designs along with California weather and garages go a long way. He told me not to stress over it. (But i'm still chewing my nails, at least for a little bit) I still like hearing other's points of view. Mario P.S. My 355 did not have any oil leaks! YEA | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1465 Registered: 11-2001 |
two thoughts for you. 1. a 355 major is not a $7500 job if nothing else is wrong,and it sounds like nothing else is wrong with this car. way overpriced. 2. whenever i have a PPI done, i tell the shop flat-out, up-front that they will not be doing any work to the car, so save me the sales pitches. it removes any potential conflict of interest. i have never seen any official data on time -vs- mileage for a 355 major. the conventional wisdom is 5 years, but as jlm and others have pointed out, a lot of perfectly healthy timing belts have come out of these things. my only specific comment is that if your guy has never pushed the car over 6K RPM, is that a good thing for the engine? doody. | ||
| Jean-Louis (Jlm348)
Member Username: Jlm348 Post Number: 620 Registered: 11-2002 |
Mario For what its worth. I bought a 94 348 with 5000 miles last year belt service was highly recommended by a dealer. It was the only thing that came up durring t PPI other then a small oil leak. I wound up doing the major at 7500 miles about 8 months later, mostly because of the small oil leak, and the belt they replaced was almost perfect and looked very good. So all the worrying about the belt going was all BS in my instance- but I have heard of other belts being a lot worse off then mine. The major just gave me a little piece of mind. Bottom line my car was 10 years old when I did the service and the belt was fine. I personally would do the service every 8-10 years in the future or 30,000 miles which I intend to hit first, but this is solely for piece of mind. You are going to do the service at some point. If the car has been properly maintained, and not abused, based on the way my belt looked- you probably will be o.k. holcding off on the service for the 6-12 that you are hoping for. JLM- | ||
| Mario B (Lawwdog)
Junior Member Username: Lawwdog Post Number: 58 Registered: 12-2002 |
I got the PPI done on the 96 355 I am buying. I need opinions please. The car is a 9.75. I know the owner personally. The PPI came back with only 1 issue. The Belt service will be/maybe due. (Reminder 96 355 with 11,300 Miles) All Fluid changes and other service has been done on the button. The owner has not done the belt on the dealers recommendation..."They said I should do the belt at 15K miles or in 5 - 8 years..especially the way I drive" I believe a couple of things: 1. The current owner has never driven the car past 6K RPM...and worships the car. 2. The belt service should be done at 15K or in the next 2 years. 3. The dealer who did the PPI wants to schedule me for a $7500 service tomorrow because they want the business. (I don't think it's absolutely necessary yet) Here is my question open for opinion: Can I go without a belt service in the next 6 -12 months and add approximately 2K miles before doing the belt service without worry? or Should I bite the bullet and do it now? |