| Author | Message | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 632 Registered: 4-2002 |
Did someone say mountain view and a GTS :-)  Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| BILL CHIUSANO (My355)
Junior Member Username: My355 Post Number: 175 Registered: 3-2003 |
DITTO!! Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 9:29 am: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Every time I go out for a drive I am very glad that I held out to find a suitable GTS. Especially when I drive in the mountains where the view out the windows is only a fraction of what is out there. I own other convertible cars and dealing with the GTS roof panel is completely painless by comparison. If you like the looks of a berlinetta, just have the roof panel painted - then there is hardly a visual difference in appearance. IMHO rididity is an insignificant issue. DITTO!! | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 922 Registered: 4-2002 |
"Windows down ? You must be kidding ... You're not even getting a 3rd of the howl you could enjoin without the top. " I have damaged hearing from too many rock&roll concerts in my youth (and some loud motorcycles). I never drive with the windows down except when mandated at the track. I get plenty of the howl I so dearly love, and by keeping the noise at a reasonable level, I will be able to hear it for many years to come. Tubi needeth not. In addition, even with the windowns UP, I still have to treat the leather about once a month to keep the soft supple feel (rich smell and deep color) of the original leather. I see no reason (expecially in Texas summertime) that a GTS or convertable is even remotely more fun than a GTB. The loss of rigidity, leaks in rain, loss of storage, and general loss of handling is not worth the cost in mu opinion. The fact that I have 2 feet of hair does not incline me to want high velocity wind blowing hair into my eyes (even with glasses on). | ||
| John A Sanders, PhD (Sandersja)
New member Username: Sandersja Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2003 |
Every time I go out for a drive I am very glad that I held out to find a suitable GTS. Especially when I drive in the mountains where the view out the windows is only a fraction of what is out there. I own other convertible cars and dealing with the GTS roof panel is completely painless by comparison. If you like the looks of a berlinetta, just have the roof panel painted - then there is hardly a visual difference in appearance. IMHO rididity is an insignificant issue. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1685 Registered: 10-2002 |
I followed Mike Charness' lead for the louvres and used his guy to have mine modified as well. Also had the roof painted. Just like the GTB look better. See my profile for details. | ||
| thomas daniels (Castex)
Junior Member Username: Castex Post Number: 69 Registered: 6-2003 |
Berlinetta! | ||
| Ze Shark (Ze_shark)
New member Username: Ze_shark Post Number: 13 Registered: 7-2003 |
Windows down ? You must be kidding ... You're not even getting a 3rd of the howl you could enjoin without the top. | ||
| Leonardo Soccolich (Lens)
Member Username: Lens Post Number: 319 Registered: 3-2001 |
I waited and waited to find a GTB, and I'm glad I did. I have a 911 Targa, so I get my fill of open air driving with it, and am also familiar with the ridgidity problems associated with targas and convertibles, at least with older cars. Painting the targa top red doesn't cut it for me. I just love the clean, uninterrupted lines of the GTB. I believe this was Pinin Farina's true intent with regard to form and volume. The enclosed feeling also reminds me of Ferrari's prototype racers of the 60s and 70s. I think the bump out under the headliner that contains the dome and map lights is worth the price of admission alone. As for engine sound, I never close the windows anyway, so I get an earful from that beautiful engine whenever I'm out for a drive. | ||
| BILL CHIUSANO (My355)
Junior Member Username: My355 Post Number: 170 Registered: 3-2003 |
The GTS is a much rarer find and IMO is a better catch.I was originally looking for a coupe and stumbled across my 355 gts f-1 and I too am not the open top type of person.Owning the gts has colored my perspective and definatly don't regret the purchase as of now.Not that this matters much but many non-owners as well as both of my f-car certified mechanics have stated that the 99'355 gts f-1 is by far their favorite of "all" the f-cars.My mechanic has also offered to purchase my car at retail market value "if" ever I wanted to sell it. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 770 Registered: 2-2001 |
To me it is just no comparison. The gtb is a great looking car but nothing beats driving with the top out on a beautiful day or evening. Plus the sound is just SO much better with the top out. I have had my car 3 years and have had the top in maybe 10 times. | ||
| V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member Username: Ama328 Post Number: 215 Registered: 11-2002 |
ok, Mike, thx for the update. Always wondered why the gas cap entry was lockable on a GTS, but wide open on a GTB...hmmm, must be statistics showing fewer Bs are messed with than Ss  | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 787 Registered: 8-2002 |
V.Z... GTB louvers can't be fit to a GTS. You have to modify the GTS louvers to look like GTB's, but there's more to it than just cutting out a few vanes, as a new piece has to be molded in along the bottom edge to cover the otherwise exposed window rubber molding. You can see details and more closeup pictures at www.mlcpartners.com/ferrari/308GTSB/  The guy has done similar work now for a couple other guys that liked what I'd done. His contact info is there at the link if you're interested. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 331 Registered: 8-2002 |
Ze Shark is spot on, With a GTS you have a split personality car, totally different sensations with the engine sounds with the top off. I have driven GTBs and the difference is unnoticable on the street and even if there were who cares as open air motoring is worth it Ferrari has always had open cars for racing as well from the early Barchetta the 250MM, to the original TR, open tops are not an American idea or request Wire to hold the doors together in corners? Good Idea, never thought of that, I keep having to buy rolls of Duct Tape at Wal Mart for my GTS | ||
| Ulf Modig (Ulf308qv)
Junior Member Username: Ulf308qv Post Number: 80 Registered: 3-2001 |
Mike, you got the best of two worlds! | ||
| V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member Username: Ama328 Post Number: 212 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dave328, thx for the numbers update... Mike Charness, is there much involved in swapping out the big GTS louvers for the small GTB louvers? Like the look in your pic. | ||
| Ze Shark (Ze_shark)
New member Username: Ze_shark Post Number: 9 Registered: 7-2003 |
Well, I happen to be a convinced GTS owner. All the stuff about rigidity and squeaks is probably true, but my 355 GTS is rigid enough for me even on the track, and I do not have the priviledge (nor the tire budget) to go lapping that often. Aside from the sunshine, the breeze and the view, which are all subjective, I'd confidently claim that a GTB owner misses 50% of the pleasure of owning one of these beautifully high revving V8s: it's all about noise (music), guys ! The top on, even with windows wide open, makes my 355 sound boring in comparison with the howl I enjoy with the top off. I am more than willing to give up a marginal bit of rigidity for that. This said, I am not in the business of convincing everyone to buy a GTS, I just don't regret a second buying one. Pictures of the beast in http://www.ferrariforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=736 | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 780 Registered: 8-2002 |
I agree with Ulf, but with simple mods you can make to a GTS, I'd say it looks just as good as a GTB. In fact, I call mine a GTSB! I get the looks of the GTB, but removable top of the GTS.  | ||
| Ulf Modig (Ulf308qv)
Junior Member Username: Ulf308qv Post Number: 79 Registered: 3-2001 |
The 308 GTB is one if the most beautiful cars made IMHO.  | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 648 Registered: 1-2002 |
I have had GTS and GTB versions of both QV's and 328's, so here is the straight poop.... Many think you will only notice the GTB's superior chassis on the track. This is not true. You can tell the difference the moment you move the car. A GTS feels pretty jiggly by comparison. The GTB's are much better cars. Period. For most, the opportunity for open air is worth the compromise, for me it's not even close. And then there is the looks. You can paint the top if you want, but it's still not the same. There are supposed to be 40-41 US version 328 GTB's. I have about 20 VIN #'s so far. Dave | ||
| V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member Username: Ama328 Post Number: 204 Registered: 11-2002 |
ok, my $.02(for FREE!): * if weather where you're located is nice most of the time, look at a GTS, figure you'll never put the top on, so who cares. * if weather is NOT always nice, tilt towards the GTB. I bought a GTB cuz where i live, the wind ALWAYS blows, and it's harder'n hell to keep a car vacuumed out. Also like the lines a bit more, but if i had the $$, i'd find a GTS and stash that in the stable, too. John Roberts, where'd you come across that 'only 35 1989 GTBs were imported to the U.S.' info? Thought it was in the neighborhood of 15-19, but never could get solid info. In 1989, there were about 45 U.S. dealers, if memory serves, and they pretty much all got an allocation for one GTB each, so that would substantiate the 35 number. OTOH, was a short production year, so maybe there wasn't the full year's allocation or much dealer interest. L. Wayne, after reading the thread you pointed to, i'm gonna go out in the garage and loosen up the doors on my GTB a BUNCH...can't wait to see them thar doors floppin' in the wind as i corner on two wheels, "eatin' the pavement" | ||
| Gary Shaw (308930g)
New member Username: 308930g Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi all. In terms of discussing the looks of the GTB vs. GTS, let's consider this. The GTB has the GTS beat in the side profile dept. Maybe. An open top GTS looks great too. Quite racey. But, how about when you walk up to a GTS w/ the roof off and the windows down, and can see the sexy interior? Or on the early carbed cars, the aluminum spokes of the steering wheel. The console area etc... As for body stiffness, sure the GTB is a firmer ride, but how many GTS or even GTB owners really are so concerned? The GTS is pretty firm for a targa. Compare it to a 911 targa of the same vintage. I've done tons of track work myself. The sensation of driving an open top car on the track is more fun than thinking about chassis rigidty. How many people can really tell? How many kick themselves that their lap times would have been better in a GTB... Some will say that for all and out track car, get a GTB. So would I, but for the fun factor, the GTS is the one! Have fun Gary | ||
| Bob Briley (Bob_briley)
New member Username: Bob_briley Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2003 |
I originally wanted anything but a red GTS (for all the GTB reasons mentioned, plus the Magnum stigma). Well, I bought a red GTS, specifically this car because of the power difference (Euro), low mileage and price. I didn't think I would care for the open top, but I sure enjoy it. Driving it with the top off is very different sensation. Test drive both and decide. | ||
| john w. houghtaling, II (Johnhoughtaling)
Junior Member Username: Johnhoughtaling Post Number: 184 Registered: 11-2002 |
I'm surprised that you find that the GTS's you've look at were in better shape. You will find that it is true that most GTS owners only drive with the top off, which means that for the majority of the time the interior of the car is exposed to the elements. Most GTS's I've seen that were not reconditioned recently have faded carpets, and dried seats. (or they have been redone) The interiors of the GTBs are in generally better shape. | ||
| john w. houghtaling, II (Johnhoughtaling)
Junior Member Username: Johnhoughtaling Post Number: 183 Registered: 11-2002 |
I also wanted a GTB or nothing. The lines are MUCH better, the chassis strength is Much better. Because of the color of the top the car looks lower and more aggressive. My advice is just to wait and find what you want. I bought an 89 GTB. Waited a long time for it. Love the car. While I track the car, and the chassis strength is important on the track, it is also very important on the streets. In New Orleans we have no shortage of bad roads, and on the bumps you can really feel a GTS shake. The GTB feels like it is made of granite. You will find one if you look hard enouph. Just keep looking. (Once you have it you will really like having something very rare) Good luck. Wait and get 100% of what you want. Compromise something else, not your dream. | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 398 Registered: 2-2002 |
Sean: I was in the same boat a few years ago. I wanted either a 1976-77 or 84/85 QV; probably for the same reasons you do. I decided on the 308QV and started to look for one. Here is my input. Forget about locating a 308QV GTB. The 308QV GTB's are impossible to find, and in three years of looking I never found one that was worth owning. A local owner of a 308QV GTB recently offered me his car, but wanted $100K. While that price may sound crazy, his car is a national winner and he does not want to sell the car. The car is not for sale, but he knew I really wanted a 308QV GTB. I can safely state that his car is the nicest one in the country. Since I could not find a GTB, I looked at many 308QV GTS' before I found my car. While I find the GTB to be a more pleasing car to look at, there is no substitute for driving the GTS with the top off on a nice sunny day. And as many others have already stated, you will probably never put the top on the car. Just remember not to rush into purchasing a car and spend the money for a PPI. | ||
| john roberts (Jr328gtb)
Junior Member Username: Jr328gtb Post Number: 51 Registered: 5-2003 |
It took me about a year to find it but I always wanted the B...ended up with 1989 as well. i love it. Don't track it, just like the looks a lot better and it is a lot more rare....only 35 1989 B's imported into the US I am 6'3" and fit without a problem...as long as I slouch So I guess I am a B snob too... | ||
| Charles Brading (Austin308)
New member Username: Austin308 Post Number: 29 Registered: 6-2003 |
Ah the GTS to appease the US market. Yep that would have been me. Like my Targa top. | ||
| Tazio Nuvolari (Nuvolari)
Member Username: Nuvolari Post Number: 258 Registered: 9-2002 |
Everyone is different but for me there was never a doubt. I wanted a GTB or NOTHING!!! The lines of the car are much cleaner on a GTB and it is generally a more refined car. For me the GTS will always be Ferrari's attempt to appease the US market rather than a pure-bread design out of Maranello. Certainly GTB's are harder to find and they tend to have their own following but their style is without reproach. From a driving standpoint, the most useful detail on the GTB are its quarter windows. It is amazing how useful these are for checking your blind spot. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1399 Registered: 5-2001 |
I live in Seattle, and rarely have the top on except to wash the car, or if it is raining (hard). :-) Get the GTS unless you are planning to extensively track the car. | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 556 Registered: 2-2001 |
Heck, the doors on my GTS poped open on straight roads (on cold days)!! Cleaned out old grease and they work fine now.... | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 480 Registered: 4-2002 |
sorry about that. good luck with your search | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 297 Registered: 2-2003 |
Thank's Marcus, but it's the wrong year and way to much $$. It's been at that place since I started looking and the price hasn't changed. It's a consignment car and the owner obviously doesn't want to sell it. | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 617 Registered: 4-2002 |
Sean, >>>...yikes, you guys get distracted easily.<<< Ooooh, is that a shiney object 8-) Oooh, ahhhhh... So shiney and sparklie... Glittery too. Enjoy the Drive, Steven Rochlin | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 479 Registered: 4-2002 |
here is a red GTB... http://www.dupontregistry.com/search/srDetails.asp?itemid=107881&sessionkey={50173719-7913-48B2-9250-59BB4195C702} -I am a fan as well hope this helps | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
Member Username: Craigfl Post Number: 655 Registered: 1-2001 |
Charles... I just turn the A/C on if I get too hot but I have to say that it's not very often... Think cool! | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 2148 Registered: 7-2001 |
I love the looks of the B, but never drive on the track so I decided I'd like to have the extra benefit of an open top. I was lucky, my car had a sanded and painted top when I bought it so when the top is on, it resembles a B. (Check my profile for a pic). It's amazing how much fun it is to drive a topless car, especially when it's a Ferrari. | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 295 Registered: 2-2003 |
Maybe I should stick with the single seat, open wheel, formula car,,,,then we'd know for sure whose toy it is.... ;) | ||
| Dave White (Dwhite)
New member Username: Dwhite Post Number: 40 Registered: 5-2003 |
Just remember more Bs were used as race cars so there are less out there. Get what you want don't give up you will find one. As for the wife thing, get what you want. It's your toy right? . . .it is right? | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 294 Registered: 2-2003 |
Back on topic, back on topic!!!! GTS vs GTB.....yikes, you guys get distracted easily. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5708 Registered: 12-2000 |
Oh, to make sure people look I will continue the line of thought from last year... I've had many problems with the GTS, when the termites finally got to my wood dowel door hinges the dang door wouldn't stay closed. First it was just the track driving, but it has got so bad that in reverse with the backwards wind resistance the bloody things pop right open. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5707 Registered: 12-2000 |
That is pretty funny Wayne, that's the first time I've read that thread. What other good threads am I missing. It's not like I'm here ALL the time. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Moderator Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 2170 Registered: 8-2002 |
Where's you sense of humor, gentlemen? http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/251280/105564.html?1029368033 | ||
| TC (Houston) (Tec)
Junior Member Username: Tec Post Number: 164 Registered: 2-2002 |
One could always have the doors welded shut, General Lee-style. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 769 Registered: 8-2002 |
Never had a problem with the door flying open on my 308 GTS/QV when taking a hard turn, and I've done a lot of track days. If it did, it would probably be as much a latch adjustment issue as it would be a body flex issue. And it would likely only release to the safety catch, not actually fly all the way open. | ||
| Lou B (Toby91)
Junior Member Username: Toby91 Post Number: 247 Registered: 4-2001 |
Never heard of GTS doors flying open. I tracked my 328 GTS hard for 10 years and loved it. Never felt there was a body flex issue. It also hard for anyone over 5'7" to wear a helmet in a GTB or taller to even fit inside without layiny waay back. | ||
| Charles Brading (Austin308)
New member Username: Austin308 Post Number: 28 Registered: 6-2003 |
Craig When the temp go's over 100 without the top on you will melt like a Hershy bar in the front seat at a red light. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5703 Registered: 12-2000 |
Never had the doors open on me and I've tracked the hell out of it several times. 90 is just my personal tolerance. My A/C works decent, so I like to use it anything hotter. | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 616 Registered: 4-2002 |
L. Wayne, The door on the '85 GTS here has NEVER flown open. Naturally when the car arrived i began some minor restoration and replaced the part on the main chassis that holds the door as those are usually very old/worn. We ARE talking about an 18+ year old car so a little common sense is in order. It also never hurts to check ALL lock mechanisms and hold-down pieces. Replace or clean/lube/align accordingly. Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin PS: virtually never have the top on her EXCEPT when driving her in COLD winter. In fact can not remember when i had the top on her. Perhaps in March???? PPS: also check entire seat belt system. | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
Member Username: Craigfl Post Number: 654 Registered: 1-2001 |
I've always found that the hotter it is the more reason to have the top off! | ||
| Charles Brading (Austin308)
New member Username: Austin308 Post Number: 26 Registered: 6-2003 |
Wayne i have been using some bailling wire to keeep the doors shut. So i am ok there | ||
| Charles Brading (Austin308)
New member Username: Austin308 Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2003 |
Rob does the top have to go on at 90 have been waiting till it tops 100. This isn't a Fchat rule is it | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Moderator Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 2169 Registered: 8-2002 |
Don't you guys remember that hard cornering in a GTS can make the doors fly open? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5701 Registered: 12-2000 |
Sean, LOL, first of all Chris is a huge GT/t(B) snob.  . He started his tenure at FerrariChat.com in hot water talking about open tops only being for "hair dressers". A hardtop looks better IMHO and would have an advantage on the track. However, as Tillman, 95% of my driving is on the street where that slight chassis rigidity isn't going to make a difference. What does make the difference is having the top off on nice cruises when the temp is between 40 and 90 degrees. < 40 top on 40-60 top off - heater on 60-80 top off 80-90 top off - A/C on 90+ top on I love cruising with the top off, it really has a convertible feel to it. I really like everyone that smooths and then paints the top. Not orginal, but looks good as a hard top with all benefits of open top. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2153 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'm more like you and loved my B. That said making your wife happy is never a bad idea... | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 819 Registered: 11-2001 |
I bought a GTS for the open top. I almost never have the top on unless the temperature crosses 100 degrees. I haven't noticed much flex, but I'm a highway flyer, not a track junkie. If you like the looks of the GTB, take a look at (I believe I have this right) Mike Charness's GTS/B hybrid. The best of both worlds. | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 292 Registered: 2-2003 |
Starting in about January I began my search for a Ferrari 308. Initially I just did research on the cars to try and determine what I wanted in a car, the model history and most importantly, what I could afford. After much review, I'd narrowed my search to either a 84/85 qv, or an 77 car. Without getting off topic, lets just say this is what I want for various reasons. I also really like the looks of the GTB cars. I've never been much of an open top kind of driver. I hardly ever open the roof on my daily driver (Accord) and I wasn't sure how often I'd want to drive the GTS with the top off. I've also talked with some current and previous GTB owners (and owners of 355 GTB's) and they all claim the GTB is better. Specifically from a rigidity stand point (which is 100% correct) and the car will have much fewer squeaks and rattles than a GTS. Mr. Parr, in fact, quite emphatically told me that "you need to buy a B, you'll be much happier if you do!" and I'm inclined to believe him. However, after talking with a few GTS owners, each commented to me that "I almost never drive with the top on". In addition, my wife LOVES open top cars and getting her to accept their will be a Ferrari in the garage is half the battle (her other choice was a Formula Ford race car). Obviously I'll let her drive the car, and if she has as much fun as I know she will, her acceptance of a "toy car" in the garage will greatly increase. The weather in KC is also agreeable to open top driving 8-months a year. Add to the fact that I just can't seem to find a decent GTB out there, because their just aren't as many, and I must say I'm getting rather frustrated. I've seen a few cars sell that I could have purchased, but they were GTS's not GTB's. Did anyone else get frustrated in their search for a car or am I just being to picky? |