| Author | Message | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 923 Registered: 4-2002 |
You know; Ferraris and Income have little in common; However, Ferraris and Outgo have a lot in common..... | ||
| Jason Paro (Jason_79)
New member Username: Jason_79 Post Number: 13 Registered: 9-2002 |
I agree with dale paying cash for you new toy is a good thing, I always buy my toys in cash it keeps me from having to write out another check for a bill to pay, plus the wife's happier that way. When I bought my 308 i was going to use it as an investment but its to dam fun to drive. So now my investment turned into my every day toy for me and like my wife said and I do have to agree it costs less to drive my 308 than keeping her hidding in the garage cause all i have to do is keep her maintained right and up to par instead of mainting and then fixing everthing that can go wrong with keeping her in storage especially here in ohio our weather kinda sucks here. | ||
| Paul Loussia (Bumboola)
Junior Member Username: Bumboola Post Number: 137 Registered: 3-2003 |
Andy, the "proper" saying is: "Son, when I was a young man, I spent 90% of my money on good whiskey, fast cars, and even faster women. The other 10% I just pissed away!" | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 729 Registered: 2-2003 |
KWM, good to hear. I support my father financially now and then because, overall, whatever it takes to make his life easier to get by brings a smile to my face and makes me happier spending time around him. I too would give up everything to keep that. The happier he is in these years the happier I am as a result. Bill, thats better than I expected, so there's hope yet for a 355 of my own. Sunny | ||
| Randall (Randall)
Member Username: Randall Post Number: 615 Registered: 1-2003 |
I don't have a problem with this question. Just keep in mind that your other bills (house, family, food, etc.) will affect what you can afford. For a 308 (what I own) you can own one on an income of $40k a year with ease. The problems arise when you have breakdowns, just make sure you don't have a problem getting your hands dirty and having the car parked for a while. | ||
| KMW (Spiceglider)
New member Username: Spiceglider Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2003 |
Sunny, Would I give up my cars and property? In a heartbeat. I've always said I would rather be poor as a church mouse and still have my father with me, than have whatever he is able to leave me and not have him in my life. He is the one who taught me that material possessions mean so little. And, 'tis better to give than to receive. We give to charity and receive the gift of happy faces and genuine gratitude. And we take the 365 to charity events to give rides to kids when we can. The car came with the fiance. I came with pets. Love me; love my car. Love me; love my pets. Mjames - My fiance was able to find a mechanic that would help him work on our car. He'd show Erik how to do some of the simple stuff. And, he'd drop his price some. But Erik's is a '75, and it's pretty straight forward. Must go take a nap. All this philosophy is putting me to sleep. Besides, if my soapbox gets any higher I'll need a cherry picker to get me down. | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 919 Registered: 4-2002 |
"You are either wealthy or poor.The wealthy are never happy because they can afford anything and not care about it." I have found that there are two 'kinds' of wealthy people. The first kind spends all of his/her energies making more and more and more. The second kind spends all of his/her energies making more until they 'understand' that they have accumulated enough, and can get off the treadmill. This first kind is never happy, not so with the second.......... | ||
| Michael C. James (Mjames)
Junior Member Username: Mjames Post Number: 57 Registered: 6-2003 |
This is getting alittle huffy/preachy/philosophical.....yawn. When I bought my first Ferrari, I really couldn't affort it. I mean REALLY couldn't afford it. Not because I couldn't swing the car payment, but because if anything broke, I didn't have four-figures of cash sitting in my savings account to fix whatever broke. When the next F-Car comes, I won't be in that situation again - I couldn't really enjoy the car when I was so overextended. Ferraris haven't gotten any cheaper to fix over the years since I had mine. Almost everyone my age and tax bracket has absolutely no clue how to fix a car, so if anything bad happens under the hood, off to the dealership it goes with a $85/hour labor rate. Many Ferrari owners do not also admit to being strong mechanics, but I do know a few who do. Those that do, fix their own cars and save huge $$$ fixing their car-problems themselves. After all, its only an internal combustion engine - and if you can fix it yourself, parts aren't that hard to come by for Post-1975 cars. Ferrari-specific tools can be rented from places like Ted Rutlands (ever have to retorque head bolts on a Testarossa because some GOOBER forgot to do that as part of the 15K service???) when you need them. The fear factor in tearing into a Ferrari engine when you're not mechanically inclined probably prevents most people from attempting simple service themselves, thus the cost of Ferrari ownership for these folks is quite steep..... I'm going to have to conquer that fear, or my garage will remain empty for several months more. | ||
| BILL CHIUSANO (My355)
Junior Member Username: My355 Post Number: 168 Registered: 3-2003 |
$7,200/15k miles on a f-355. Including tires,brake pads,major services I could be wrong but this was my research. | ||
| Andy mathieson (Andy)
New member Username: Andy Post Number: 12 Registered: 4-2003 |
I spend half my income on my cars, good wine and enjoying myself. I squander the rest. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 727 Registered: 2-2003 |
Yes, like love, compliments, companionship. That list can go on forever and contain things we far too often take for granted. Yet, you have a Ferrari in the garage with two other cars and at least one property. But why? Why the collection of material objects? This thread is about money and passion, that owning a Ferrari (or property, or a huge fishing boat or...) will enhance our enjoyment of life. I'm rich enough already, but I still want a Ferrari. Why? Because I'm greedy and I want one, not that I need one. Will you give up your Ferrari and your property? Not if you can help it. Sunny | ||
| KMW (Spiceglider)
New member Username: Spiceglider Post Number: 6 Registered: 7-2003 |
The best things in life are free. And, if you don't understand that, you are far poorer than you can ever imagine. | ||
| DaveE (Banzaiboxr)
Junior Member Username: Banzaiboxr Post Number: 179 Registered: 8-2002 |
You only live once .You are either wealthy or poor.The wealthy are never happy because they can afford anything and not care about it.The poor class which is 90% of the population have to work extra hard to get what they want and if it is expensive they will care for it and treat it like gold whatever they have to do - most cases BE IN DEPT!!!!!I do not understand those who insist cash is best - 90% of everyone borrows money some way or another! Investment or want -this is the question and not for everyone.You only live once and die hopefully not before you own a Ferrari. | ||
| RockStar (Remix)
Junior Member Username: Remix Post Number: 54 Registered: 3-2003 |
Wow, Superkal. If you need some hot, young silicone-stuffed stripper type chicks with loose morals between 18-24, give me a call. I have more of those hanging around than I can handle. Got my first NSX at 24. Ten years later I meet more double X chromosomes than ever and few of them ever get to see what I'm driving! It ain't what ya got, it's how ya werk it. REMIX | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
Junior Member Username: Minuke Post Number: 124 Registered: 7-2003 |
Neal, 20,000 for a engine rebuild seem's cheap, I recently saw receipt's on a 308 rebuild it was 25,000. I would think a 348 would be even more. | ||
| Kevin Butler (Challenge)
Junior Member Username: Challenge Post Number: 188 Registered: 9-2002 |
Spiceglider - welcome. Pretty arrogant first post. My take on the whole financial situation thing is don't ever overextend. If you must finance a car because you're getting older and your net worth is not increasing at the same pace(gottahaveitnowitis), then at least purchase a car which has flattened out on it's depreciation curve. | ||
| neal (95spiderneal)
Junior Member Username: 95spiderneal Post Number: 213 Registered: 3-2002 |
back to gary spent 70k on fcar 2 months later had to spend 20k on engine rebuild didnt matter and still worth it to me make sure you can afford that kind of situation | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 115 Registered: 4-2003 |
Don't worry hun, he was attacking KDW, who ever that is (it's one thing not being able to spell, entirely different to not even be able to transcribe 3 letters). Guys, no picking on my better half, please. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 722 Registered: 2-2003 |
KMW, that is soo true. There's so much more to life than money as well, so why nitpick on how or when we spend it, as long as we enjoy it in the way that makes us happiest? My point I was making below these flames was, who has a right to impose those ideas on another.. unless it was a parent/child relationship when some guidance is necessary. Sunny | ||
| KMW (Spiceglider)
New member Username: Spiceglider Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2003 |
>> Can't win the argument so you attack the person who is stating the argument. I am not the person you describe but even if I was how would that change anything? << It was a simple question. >>Did I post anything that made me sound like I was that type of person << Yes or are you just stereo typing all the young adults here? << No. Don't do stereotypes. I break too many of those myself. >>Your the one that needed a lesson in basic economics (and it appears now logicial reasoning). << I don't need a lesson in basic economics. I have a degree in business administration and accounting. >>With your 1st post ever starting in this thread I'm calling Troll on this one. << Who is Troll? BTW - It's not "sir". | ||
| Kal (Suprakal)
New member Username: Suprakal Post Number: 46 Registered: 4-2003 |
KDW Sir you had my respect up until you made a stupid ignorant childish comment like that. This is a perfect example of Argumentum ad hominem! Can't win the argument so you attack the person who is stating the argument. I am not the person you describe but even if I was how would that change anything? Did I post anything that made me sound like I was that type of person or are you just stereo typing all the young adults here? Your the one that needed a lesson in basic economics (and it appears now logicial reasoning). With your 1st post ever starting in this thread I'm calling Troll on this one. | ||
| KMW (Spiceglider)
New member Username: Spiceglider Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2003 |
Sunny, Life is so much more than material things. After a while you realize that they don't matter at all. Nobody cares what you own. In 100 years it won't matter. Hell, in an hour it won't matter. | ||
| KMW (Spiceglider)
New member Username: Spiceglider Post Number: 3 Registered: 7-2003 |
Okay, I'm back. You said you're 23? Do you walk around in pants 5x too big, wear your hat backwards with a du-rag underneath, slouch, and mumble? 'Cause that would explain a lot. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 721 Registered: 2-2003 |
KMW, your appreciation of your life and experiences, but appreciation of material things is greater when you age? I don't completely agree with that. A person doesn't automatically appreciate a Ferrari more at 50 then they do at 25. As people have inferred on here, some like Kal and I would rather have 25 years of ownership at 50, then 25 years of ownership at 75. Sunny | ||
| KMW (Spiceglider)
New member Username: Spiceglider Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2003 |
Kal, I'll be back in a few minutes. I have to publish a magazine. But, you learn to enjoy things more as you age. Yes, life is short, but don't kill yourself looking for satisfaction | ||
| Kal (Suprakal)
New member Username: Suprakal Post Number: 45 Registered: 4-2003 |
Infact with good credit your going to pay 4-5% interest to finance a car << And, if you pay straight cash you won't pay ANY interest. Did you not understand my point about having money tied up into a car vs tied up into an investment that WILL better the intrest rate your paying on the car? Also you missstood what I mean about going out with a young woman and having a good time. I didn't mean I would use the car to pickup the girl I merely meant I wanted to have the car to enjoy my time with the girl. Chances are when I'm 40 I won't be going out with 20 or 21 year olds for a variety of reasons (including of which I will hopefully be married and have children). What I mean to say is I wanted to enjoy some of the best things in life (Beautiful young women and beautiful exotic cars) while I'm young and not while I'm old. Also you never know what happens tommorow. Not to say that you should life wrecklessly but you gotta know how to enjoy life and live it at the moement to the degree since the future for us is not set you never know what will happen. | ||
| john w. houghtaling, II (Johnhoughtaling)
Junior Member Username: Johnhoughtaling Post Number: 192 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dave: From your posts, I'm quite sure you are going to enjoy the Bourbon Street balcony Party at the New Orleans event. | ||
| K M Wagoner (Spiceglider)
New member Username: Spiceglider Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2003 |
>>Infact with good credit your going to pay 4-5% interest to finance a car << And, if you pay straight cash you won't pay ANY interest. >>Also what about the people that want to enjoy such a car in their youth? To them its worth paying for the interest on the car. << Instant gratifaction is a major let-down in the long run. What will you do when the market tanks (again) and you have no money to pay for necessities? Live in the past? >> I personally am 23 and if I can afford to make payments on a 360 in a year or two you can bet I will be driving one. Why? Because I rather enjoy a car of that caliber at 25 then when I can pickup a hot young 20 year old date and go and live it up and make memories to last a life time then when I am 50 and have already experianced so many things that an expensive car will not be likely to bring such great memories and experiances. << You're kidding yourself. My 49 year old father picked up a 21 year old woman without a fancy car. They were married for 15 years and are (after the divorce) best friends. Now, at the age of 87, he is dating a 47 year old, and has the hots for a 26 year old Finn. He does not have fancy cars, fancy jets, or huge houses. Nor does he have any debt!!! He never has. He always saved up for what he needed or wanted. Do you know what it feels like to have no debt? You sleep very well. I know this because there is a Ferrari in my garage with the title in the filing cabinet, right next to the titles of my houses and two other cars. And, I'm 36, and was not born with a silver spoon anywhere in my body. If you really want the types of women who only want people with large checkbooks, you are worse off than I imagined. And, you deserve what you get. If you are only interested in chesty airheads with no other ambition than to be somebody's f-buddy, then you will be very dissapointed when she leaves you for a larger checkbook and faster car. My mother always says "When you marry for money, you earn every penny." It works both ways. | ||
| Kal (Suprakal)
New member Username: Suprakal Post Number: 44 Registered: 4-2003 |
Dr. Erik are you basically knocking anyone from Financing a car? There is nothing wrong with credit! If there was there wouldn't be much point to having good credit. I mean if everyone paid cash for their house or car that would mean 80% of the cars on the road would be older junkers and everyone would be renting property instead of owning. It comes down to if you can afford the payments on the cars of your dreams and have the credit to do so you have already reached the goal of owning the car and are not a poser (A person with an average income won't get financed on a ferrari). I consider any true car enthusiest to regard cars as major source of interest in their life and for that reason alone would put themselves into debt to fulfill that dream vs waiting for many years and do it out right. There are a few other aspects of financing a car (especially a Ferrari) that you have left out. First off if you know how to find good deals you can buy a car like a Ferrari drive it for a few years under loan from the bank and then sell it and turn a profit and or break even without putting a huge void in your bank account for those years. It is stupid to lock away active cash that can be used for any upcoming business venture, investment and/or purchase of another car to quickly buy then sell and make a cool profit. Infact with good credit your going to pay 4-5% interest to finance a car and I'm willing to bet that most of the guys on this board are getting way better return's then that on their investments making it much smarter to invest that $150K+ and make payments then to lock $150K+ of perfectly good money up into a car. Also what about the people that want to enjoy such a car in their youth? To them its worth paying for the interest on the car. I personally am 23 and if I can afford to make payments on a 360 in a year or two you can bet I will be driving one. Why? Because I rather enjoy a car of that caliber at 25 then when I can pickup a hot young 20 year old date and go and live it up and make memories to last a life time then when I am 50 and have already experianced so many things that an expensive car will not be likely to bring such great memories and experiances. To me its worth it and you know what if I die tommorow or N. Korea decided to test some weapons tommorow I still had those experiances and memories and the bank can just eat it  . | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 720 Registered: 2-2003 |
Dr. Erik, with all due respect, regarding a 15 year old kid reading this list and wanting to finance a Ferrari, they aren't going to be able to do it unless they have income. Who are we to take away those seeds that create the dreams of wanting to own a Ferrari for the very same reasons we do? You know what I remember at 15 (11 years ago) seeing a gold XJS coupe for the first time? I remember the time of day, the very street and spot I saw it, how fast we were going (40mph), and how it seemed to float along gracefully. I had absolutely NO interest in cars but I was actually reaching out to know more about one. I wanted to know what it was, my father told me it was a Jaguar, they were crap. Expensive and they break constantly. You know what I remembered about Jags and XJS's for years afterward? They were crap. I'm 26 now after getting my license finally at 22. You know what I drive now? Let them read and enjoy our enthusiasm while building up their own. They might have parents who don't dream. Sunny P.S.. its a nice feeling when your old man wants to borrow YOUR car to take your mum out to dinner in, or to show up at a family function because you had the courage to drive something different and proved them wrong. Let alone, share your enthusiasm. | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
Junior Member Username: Minuke Post Number: 119 Registered: 7-2003 |
Arthur, Does that really work! | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2210 Registered: 6-2001 |
YOu need the purchase price and about 10k per year to run a relatively new one, if you're putting on 7 to 12k per year on the car. That figure doesn't include the extra cost of having lost your license driving one because you got 5 speeding tickets the year before. It also doesn't include the 1199 Foundation cost (1400) that will avoid some of those tickets. Art | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 1220 Registered: 3-2002 |
Hubert, you actually rebuild that same old engine? Hell, I just pull it 'n pitch it. After installing a new engine, I usually leave the old one out in the alley for some shopping-cart-pushing Dino owner to come and cart off! | ||
| Jeremiah M. Burke (Bullfrog)
Junior Member Username: Bullfrog Post Number: 57 Registered: 6-2003 |
Bigger Dave! Much Bigger! | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2401 Registered: 1-2002 |
In MY world, they do...   | ||
| Andrew H (Stokpro)
Junior Member Username: Stokpro Post Number: 90 Registered: 6-2003 |
Dave, "they" still don't move. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2399 Registered: 1-2002 |
 | ||
| Brian W (Jetx)
Junior Member Username: Jetx Post Number: 60 Registered: 6-2003 |
>>They are just objects that cost money and if you really think that people will judge you for what you drive/own and not who you are<< I think this is right on the money. The doc can correct me if I'm wrong, but my interpretation is "buy a Ferrari because you want one" and not because it will make you 'a better person' in the eyes of someone else | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 110 Registered: 4-2003 |
My comments were mainly directed at "new" Ferraris, and I agree that most people that have the older cars are true enthusiasts, probably more so than those with the new cars. I'll be happy to drink with any enthusiast out there. Hell, I'll even buy the first round. I just want to make sure that an impressionable 15 year old kid on the list doesn't get it in his head to finance something he can't afford, but rather put it off until later in life when he can appreciate it. Even my better half accuses me of being an elitest from time to time, so I'm used to it and I think its funny since she was the one that had a nanny, a nurse and a tutor growing up. | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
Junior Member Username: Minuke Post Number: 115 Registered: 7-2003 |
John, Your post mirror's a situation I recently had. A friend of my bought a BMW M-3. He has alway's wanted a F-car. I told him for what he paid for his car he could have bought a F-car. He replied " only rich people drive ferrari's, and I'm not rich" Dr.Eric stated " the average net worth of a new F-car owner is 54 million" If that's the case I most likely will never own a new one. I would be happy with a 308 or 328. That goal is attainable for me. | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Junior Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 249 Registered: 4-2003 |
I'll echo John's thoughts about a point of beginning. Five years ago when I first started thinking about buying a Ferrari, my first target was a GT4. Apparently, they still sell today for what they sold for back then. For a lot of reasons, I didn't pull that trigger, but kept saving my green stamps. Then, earlier this year, Joe @ FOH called with a deal on a 98 550 that I just couldn't refuse. I guess that it ain't polite to say what one pays for a car, but I have friends with Twin Turbos who paid more for their cars than I did for my Maranello. In fact, I have friends who have spent more on playing golf than I paid for my F-car. So, it comes down to priorties and being patient, I guess. Good luck. | ||
| Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 612 Registered: 11-2001 |
Ferrari owners come in all shapes and sizes. I know a few posers, and a few enthusiasts. I know a few rich ones, and a few average ones. Although it is true that I do not know anyone who is poor and owns a Ferrari. | ||
| Greg (Greg512tr)
Junior Member Username: Greg512tr Post Number: 173 Registered: 2-2002 |
On the low end, you can buy a Mondial 8 for $13k, don't put collision insurance on it, do fluid changes and just basic maintenance, and drive it. If it breaks, part it out and you will probably break even. Very minimal costs and you still get a lot of ferrari fun factor. The first Ferrari I bought was a Mondial 8 for $14k, traded it in on a TR and got $12k for it. | ||
| john w. houghtaling, II (Johnhoughtaling)
Junior Member Username: Johnhoughtaling Post Number: 189 Registered: 11-2002 |
With all due respect to Dr. Erik, I think his comments are a tad elitist and at best very misleading to an enthusiast such as Gary. I also think views like this: that you have to be weathy, or very weathly, to own a Ferrari, keep many would be enthusiasts afraid and out of the market. I personaly think it is very funny (and sad) that many people who drool over my Ferraris, who can certainly afford either, think they will never have one because you have to be very rich to own one. You dont have to be rich to own a Ferrari. I know many friends with very average incomes who own beautiful 308s and 328s. I myself purchased a 328 in my twenties just out of law school. And I financed it. I wanted it badly enouph and found a way to purchase it. In the many years I've owned it, that car has proven to be one of the most economical and affordable cars I've ever owned. Gary dont be dismayed or turned off by those who tell you that average owner of a Ferrari is very rich and is between making 560k a year and 54 million in liquidity. Give me a break; That's just silly. The FCA's data showed something very very different. That is not to say that many people buy Ferraris to tell other people that they are very rich. There are some very weathly people who own some very expensive Ferraris (For that matter, I know some very weathly people who own realatively inexpensive Ferraris). But, the goal of attaining Ferrari ownership is reasonably within your grasp, and anyones grasp who studies hard, works hard, saves, and is economically responsible. (a very nice 308GT4 can be had for under $25,000) John W. Houghtaling | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 835 Registered: 11-2001 |
Flame away if you must. I've always felt that other people's financial decisions are their private business. It is the height of arrogance to believe that one's decision is the One True Way, and that no other decisions are appropriate for other people. I don't know or care what my friends make, and it never comes up in conversation. Why would it? Everyone I know personally that has a Ferrari is a genuine enthusiast; not a poser in the bunch, regardless of who actually owns the car they are driving. Regardless of this disagreement, I'll still buy you a drink if you get down here, if you can stand being with someone who (gasp!) financed his car | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 109 Registered: 4-2003 |
Okay, I've posted several notes, my turn to start a flame war. Financing a Ferrari means you look wealthy. Paying cash for one means you are wealthy. And yes, Clyde is a good friend of mine. There are plenty of rich posers out there. They are just objects that cost money and if you really think that people will judge you for what you drive/own and not who you are, please don't ever have a drink or dinner with me. Cheers. | ||
| Matt (Matt_lamotte)
Member Username: Matt_lamotte Post Number: 477 Registered: 10-2002 |
Gary, I can understand your curiosity on this. I too have often wondered what it would take t own one. However with some fairly simple math and knowing what exact model you can get a general estimate not including any damages it might receive. You can't blame anyone here for not saying "Hey this is what I make a year". It's a private thing. I am far from having enough but I do know that if you plan your expenses, save right, and invest well you'll get there just like the rest of the owners. Good luck! | ||
| Vince (Manatee)
Member Username: Manatee Post Number: 276 Registered: 6-2002 |
Gary, to honestly answer your initial question, The Ferrari Club Of America recently conducted a demographics survey of it's membership. I'd suggest you contact them for their results. Good luck, work hard, stay clean, and the desired goals will follow. | ||
| Dr. J C928 (Attitude928)
Junior Member Username: Attitude928 Post Number: 73 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dale - About 5000 maniacs iceboat worldwide (there's ice right now in Patagonia - southern tip of S. America). The "world" Skeeter Championship was held on Lake Champlain, Vermont this past winter. Usually we have to go out to Wisconsin for all the fun. Acceleration off the windward mark has been compared with an F1 race car. Bigtime G forces and just a blur if your looking sideways. Usually your hiking (on two of the three runners) and going 80-110 mph depending on the windspeed. One always has to look out for other skeeters rounding the mark, and, of course, the other skeeters coming upwind at 60. You stop the boat by pointing directly at the wind and then pulling your icebrake for the last few hundred yards. The race course is usually 1.5 to 2 miles long & wide. All the iceboats start on the line at the same time and then race around the marks. When your not screaming, you need to be able to remember to do 4 laps to complete the race. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1404 Registered: 5-2001 |
I'm with Dr.J and Dale, save up and pay cash. You get a better deal that way too! (Clyde over on Ferrarlist says to handle a Ferrari purchase like a "drug deal", dicker like hell and bring CASH.) Financing your house, seems reasonable to me; financing toys seems insane,...guess it all has to do with what level of debt you are comfortable with. I like mine as low as possible. :-) | ||
| Wyatt Hanson (Wyatth)
Junior Member Username: Wyatth Post Number: 125 Registered: 5-2003 |
Live it while you can. If you can manage the payment do it. Don't stretch too far, but tomorrow you might be further from owning the car. Never know what's down the road, good or bad. | ||
| Tyson Hall (Trhall)
Junior Member Username: Trhall Post Number: 180 Registered: 6-2003 |
"tony pantera strikes again..." Good call Robin. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 767 Registered: 2-2001 |
Im am not one that believesyou have to wait and pay cash either. As long as you are not living beyond your means go for it. I financed my 308 for 3 years and just paid it off last friday. I would much rather have it and enjoy it. Life is too short, I could be dead before I have that much cash but I do have a paid off 308 for what its worth. | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
Member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 296 Registered: 12-2002 |
>>>Gary Paying cash it's about $2.50-$3.50 per mile. There are a lot of great cars that can give you a lot of enjoyment for a lot less than a Ferrari. If your lucky enough to be able to afford one NEVER let this stop you from affording something really important like lemonade for your kids lemonade stand. That's what really matters. <<< That is the most relevant and enlightened response to this whole thread! Jim, not to sound like a butt-kisser, but I've followed your love of cars and what you've got and what you're restoring. You obviously have achieved a lot of monetary success. But I am a lot more impressed with your attitude in this regard than even your P4! I remember a thread where someone said "what would you do with $10MM in cash and retirement?" and your response was "spend time with family and friends and enjoy my life". Sounds like you're "rich" in the way that really counts. Oh, and your cars are Ok too I guess | ||
| Robert Callahan (Rcallahan)
Member Username: Rcallahan Post Number: 293 Registered: 7-2002 |
Gary, this is what I think. if you ever have the opportunity to own a Ferrari, do it!! maybe later things will change and you might have to sell. So what! You can always have the memories, you can always tell your grandkids about the RED CAR. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 719 Registered: 2-2003 |
Dale, if you bought your first Ferrari at 50, I'm personally not going to follow your footsteps and wait 24 years... There are somethings in life people want. There are people like me that have simple aspirations and one of my driving goals is to own and drive a Ferrari, like one of my driving goals was a pair of Jaguars. Time is wasting. I'm not going to wait 5 years and buy it cash when I can finance it and drive it when I'm ready. Interest spent vs time wasted not having one is worth the trade off to some people. For limiting your toy box to motorcycles for 30 years, you self imposed that on yourself for other things. I didn't wake up one day and suddenly want a Ferrari. Sunny | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1037 Registered: 10-2002 |
haha... jordan, that reminds of the funny comment your mom made to me about selling you to buy a nice 308.... I would've reacted and said, "mom, I'm worth at least a 288 GTO!!" LOL That was too funny! | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 108 Registered: 4-2003 |
Jordan: The average cost to raise a kid to 18 is $250k. Ask your parents if they would rather have had a Ferrari instead of you two. Save up and pay cash. Instant gratification is over rated. | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Intermediate Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 1608 Registered: 12-2002 |
Luckily I can never see myself having a kid...so hopefully a Ferrari will be more realistic in my future I think my brother and I have cost my parents a few hundred thousand dollars since birth!?! | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Junior Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 241 Registered: 4-2003 |
Tillman is right >>it's a matter of priorities<< Brand new, my Maranello cost more than my home brand new. (Of course the home is now worth more than the Maranello, but that's a different subject.) Oh, and one more thought... Your most expensive toy will be your first one. If you buy right, you'll be able to roll your equity into the next one and then next one and... | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 832 Registered: 11-2001 |
If you skip these two steps, the Ferrari is easy... As far as "what does it take?" Like anything else, it's a matter of priorities. Question the lifescript and decide what's important to you. | ||
| pete (Pete_peter)
New member Username: Pete_peter Post Number: 49 Registered: 12-2002 |
Robin said >>tony pantera strikes again...<< I agree. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2214 Registered: 10-2002 |
Gary Paying cash it's about $2.50-$3.50 per mile. There are a lot of great cars that can give you a lot of enjoyment for a lot less than a Ferrari. If your lucky enough to be able to afford one NEVER let this stop you from affording something really important like lemonade for your kids lemonade stand. That's what really matters. | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
Junior Member Username: Minuke Post Number: 112 Registered: 7-2003 |
Dr.J, Who am I to argue with a doctor! | ||
| Eugene Angelo (Eangelo)
Junior Member Username: Eangelo Post Number: 61 Registered: 8-2001 |
I too agree with Dale. Pay Cash!! 99% of all F-cars are liabilities. As with all liabilities (including women) they can very expensive to keep and maintain. Remember, it's not how much you earn, it's how much you keep. | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Junior Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 238 Registered: 4-2003 |
Wow, Dr J, is that whut you yankees really do in the winter time. Holey Moley. WTH is ice boat racing? Do you guys hook up a small jet engine on those puppies. And I gotta ask, what do ya use for brakes? Drag yer feet? Ha! | ||
| Dr. J C928 (Attitude928)
Junior Member Username: Attitude928 Post Number: 72 Registered: 11-2002 |
Agree with DrTax. Get the house. Pay it off. Get the kids. Save for all their colleges. Fully fund retirement funds. Pay off all debt. Buy toys with cash. Start with cheaper toys & work your way up. | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
Junior Member Username: Minuke Post Number: 111 Registered: 7-2003 |
Dale, That is excellent advice, thank you. | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
Junior Member Username: Minuke Post Number: 110 Registered: 7-2003 |
Dr.Erik, Thank you for answering my question! | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1164 Registered: 1-2002 |
>>Or you could become a cracker pimp, ha!<< Dale: I take offense. I take my "vocation" quite seriously. I'll have you know. Regards, A1 Cracker pimp extrodinaire | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Junior Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 236 Registered: 4-2003 |
Gary, my rule of thumb for toys is simple. Buy em when you can pay cash. If you don't have enough cash to buy an F-toy, buy a P-toy, or buy a Mini or whatever. Trust me, if you start financing small toys, you'll never have the money to buy the really nice toys. For about 30 years, my toy box was limited to motorcycles. I got into sports cars about 5 years ago. Brought my first Ferrari this year. I'm 50. As far as maintenance and whatnot, just remember that you gotta lift yer leg high if you want to run with the big dogs. In other words, don't let your eyeballs get bigger than your pocketbook. Stay focused and you'll get there eventually. Or you could become a cracker pimp, ha! | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 107 Registered: 4-2003 |
Here's a round about way of answering it. I don't have hard data from Ferrari, but the average owner of an S600 Mercedes (around $130k or so depending on options) makes $560k per year. When I looked at Maybachs ($310-400k), the number I heard was the average buyer has investable assests (read everything but property) of $54 million. I'd put the average new Ferrari owner in between, but remember, lots of them are leased or owned through a business. Without getting into a huge fight, there is a huge difference between income and wealth. At the end of the day, its still just a f$%&-ing car. | ||
| Ron (Easy_rider)
Member Username: Easy_rider Post Number: 630 Registered: 12-2002 |
Robin, bite your tongue. I hope not. | ||
| Robin Overcash (Robin)
Junior Member Username: Robin Post Number: 174 Registered: 1-2003 |
tony pantera strikes again... -R | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1163 Registered: 1-2002 |
In all seriousness, the "if you have to ask, well..." line is bullshit. Total bullshit. It's not as though we dont ask home asking prices, clothing, etc. if it's on the market; that other BS is just to keep the game "exclusive" and is hogwash. It is fair game, however, to ask "how much will a 355 cost me per year, if I drive it 15k miles per year?" then all the 355 owners could answer by saying, well: rear tires: $xxx 15k service (each year): $xxx oil changes : $xxx (at the dealer) , or $xxx (by yourself) insurance/year: $xxx (sticky b/c it varies, but at least you'll get the names of carries; you ever call progressive to get a 360 quote? "umm, sir... we can't insure that vehicle") That should be extent of said dissertation, but asking how much you need to make (salary) is moot, not only b/c most people don't feel like divudgling the info, but also b/c it entangles the question in other fators; namely, did you finance, did you refi your home and use the equity, did you take out a 2nd, did you pay cash, did you put 50% down, etc. Bottom line: do you have the money to drive it off the lot? and do you have the means to maintain it? If the answer to the latter is NO, then the former is irrelavent. Further, since we all know what the going rates are for given cars, by our own footwork, or others... the only question that remains is the maintenance, and for that you could easily call your own local dealers and your own independants and ask, write down the figures, and add them up. If you wet yourself at the sight of the sum, you're buying the wrong car. And, that stark reality is Ferrari independant. It's fair game to ask "how much does it ,and will it, cost me?" it's an entirely different matter to ask "gee, which tax bracket you in, holmes?" | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2378 Registered: 1-2002 |
We've been down this path before. Dood is right: pimpin' AIN'T easy.  | ||
| peter brinzey (Ferraripete)
Junior Member Username: Ferraripete Post Number: 97 Registered: 11-2002 |
good question however, has there ever been a demographic survey done here? if all were honest, it may be nice info. | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1036 Registered: 10-2002 |
Point taken... I generally follow this rule for myself: "If I have to ask, I can't afford it." Usually keeps me out of trouble! hehe... I think you'll find that if you want to own a Ferrari one day, it's not as cost-prohibitive to make the plunge to "buy" one as it is to actually "own" one. Your question is quite broad b/c modern, late model Fcars range in price drastically... anywhere from 170k to 700k. I'm sure you can do the math from there... figure ~$1-2/mile driven to own and maintain it.... | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1501 Registered: 11-2001 |
yo, g! pimpin' ain't easy, but it keeps the horsies prancin'! doody. | ||
| Ron (Easy_rider)
Member Username: Easy_rider Post Number: 628 Registered: 12-2002 |
Gary, the lesson I re-learned yesterday is if you have to worry about the finances to afford a particular car, then it is probably best if you stick to a less expensive car. P.S. that comment is more directed at me than you. It is always good to have goals though. Best of luck. | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 2499 Registered: 4-2002 |
I RUN NUMBERS AND HAVE A BROTHEL, EAST OF LOS VEGAS.. NOT THE QUESTION TO ASK HERE AS FAR AS F-CHAT MEMBERS INCOME, BETTER QUESTION IS TO "HOW MUCH YEARLY MONEY DO YOU NEED TO RUN A F-CAR AND TO WHAT MODEL IT IS DONT TAKE IT THE WRONG WAY BRUCE | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
Junior Member Username: Minuke Post Number: 109 Registered: 7-2003 |
Byron, I am not asking for exact number's, I am just trying to get an Idea of what it take's to own one of these cars. I am trying to set a goal for myself and see if it is obtainable. If I don't ask I won't know. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Intermediate Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 1162 Registered: 1-2002 |
I sell crack. It's pretty lucrative, if you can manage to *ahem* retire your competition, ya dig? I got so much money I have my personal mechanic, Fabio, pull the engines out every 1000 miles and rebuild them, just to be sure. Highly reccomend the crack industry, it pays dividends, 'til you get shot by a crackhead, that is. | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1034 Registered: 10-2002 |
Gary - with all due respect, this is not really the type of question to ask on a public forum. | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
Junior Member Username: Minuke Post Number: 108 Registered: 7-2003 |
This thread is aimed at F-chat member's who drive late model F-car's. What kind of income do you need to be able to afford these car's. Can you still save money with the high cost of maintenance and Insurance. |