| Author | Message | ||
| TC (Houston) (Tec)
Junior Member Username: Tec Post Number: 201 Registered: 2-2002 |
Taek, Sorry, I'm not on the boards much on the weekends. The most popular short shifter for the p-cars is probably B&M. Ruf, Evo and Techart also make short shift kits. | ||
| Jason W (Pristines4)
Member Username: Pristines4 Post Number: 569 Registered: 12-2002 |
Dean, who is converting the 959? G&K? Is this it? http://www.carclassic.com/html/DD94.htm | ||
| Joe C (Italiancars)
New member Username: Italiancars Post Number: 30 Registered: 1-2003 |
Just to spice things up a bit.(as a former Porsche owner.) Part of my annual car calander for each year includes the Monterey weekend. However, I did not attend in 1998 when Porsche was the feature and it was there 50th Anniv. When asked why I didn't attend I usually respond that "I didn't think I could take that many Porsche owners in one place at one time. The last time that many blind fanatics got together, Poland got invaded!":-) | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1827 Registered: 11-2002 |
Backtracking here a bit guys...sorry... TC, about that short shifter. Who makes a good one? Bill, Isn't the GT2s shifter different from the run of the mill TTs? I hear they are already aggresively spaced. I, for one, wouldn't mind a short shift for the TT. It feels kind of ropey the way it is now. Dean, That's a fantastic car. Technologically still miles ahead most things on the road today! Cheers | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 343 Registered: 8-2002 |
Porsches 993 and older are great cars, A Porsche is a car you can drive everyday with little hassle, Porsches get looks and attention as well if thats what you want I've had 2 911s and drove the wheels off them, I could park them and leave with little apprehension which is something you can't do with a Ferrari, almost everytime I leave my 328 on a general parking area I'll look back or arrive back to the car and someone will be checking it out Some things I miss about my 911, after I sold it and purchased the Ferrari. I planned on driving it a lot, similar to my 911 but found it was not possible if I wanted to have piece of mind after leaving the car not to mention the added attention which some is positive but some negative while driving so I dont drive it much at all. For those that don't like 911s I say take one for a good fast spin (a 993 or older)and then make a decision | ||
| Pedro Miguel Teixeira (Ayrton_senna)
New member Username: Ayrton_senna Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2003 |
Thank you for the correction Marvin. I didn�t recal exacly the US warehouse name where tou can buy cheap suits. | ||
| Marvin Balagot (Mdb69)
Junior Member Username: Mdb69 Post Number: 87 Registered: 4-2002 |
"Comparing a porsche to a ferrari is like comparing a tailor made suit to a wal mart one." LOL, maybe not WalMart, maybe the Mens Warehouse though? Nothing wrong with buying a suit off the rack is there?  | ||
| Pedro Miguel Teixeira (Ayrton_senna)
New member Username: Ayrton_senna Post Number: 3 Registered: 7-2003 |
Porsche are comon cars. Comparing a porsche to a ferrari is like comparing a tailor made suit to a wal mart one. Porsches are nice but they will never have the prestige and status Ferrari. I had a 2000 911 carrera but i like real sports cars so i sould it. The car was nice but it lacks the real sports car invirnmet and feeling. It lack years of F1 knowledge and pure charme. | ||
| Steve (Steve)
Member Username: Steve Post Number: 449 Registered: 2-2001 |
Although Porsche has grown to be a super car and has great numbers I have never liked them. The style never seemed to do anything for me except for the can am and gtp cars. the other greatest drawback is they are to common (to the layman the all look alike)and you see them everywhere.The Fcar stands out both in style and name.Unless I'm at an F event at Limerock I maybe see 1 Fcar on the road a year which to me makes it special. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Intermediate Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 1240 Registered: 5-2001 |
I think Porsches are great. I love them. I just like Ferrari more. To me it's like preferring a brunette over a blonde. It's not a question of what's better, it's a question of personal taste. | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 259 Registered: 4-2003 |
>>As promised, for what it is worth. Keep in mind that the P car discussed here is a GT-2 which is not necessarily typical of an AWD TT, since its not AWD and has no traction control and more power and torque than a TT.<< Bill, you knew this was coming didn't you? Howza bout comparing a TT to a 550? I have a Buddy with a GT2 and even he has admitted that the car is too much for him on the street. thx | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1524 Registered: 11-2001 |
will - that's a tad more data than i think we all needed ;-) doody. | ||
| Ronin (Ronin)
Junior Member Username: Ronin Post Number: 57 Registered: 6-2003 |
DEAN THAT is a beautiful car! Congrats! | ||
| Dean (Deanger)
New member Username: Deanger Post Number: 30 Registered: 2-2003 |
The 959 is currently in Texas being federalized (read: sterilized). From there it will go to Napa, CA for California Cert. Then I'll drive it for a while before figuring out how much to do to the car. Canepa totally re-vamps them, so that is always an option. As for photos, I'll try to attach one. The car has less than 4,500 KM.     | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 477 Registered: 4-2003 |
"A Volkswagon On Steriods" | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2833 Registered: 2-2001 |
saw a gorgeous blue GT2 today that gave me a Woodie | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1426 Registered: 8-2001 |
Wow, a 959! Any pictures? | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1558 Registered: 12-2001 |
Dean, we do. This discussion is far more civilized than the usual debate over F v. Lambo. Is your 959 one of the ones that is now being legalized for US street use? | ||
| Dean (Deanger)
New member Username: Deanger Post Number: 29 Registered: 2-2003 |
Having had a string of Porsches culminating in the GT2 before joining the F-car club with the 575M, I thought the 575 would be a "phase" car. I'd like it for a few months and then move on. Afterall, Porsche are drivers' cars and Ferraris are eye-candy, right? Wrong. I am stunned at how every day I like the 575 more and more. Yes, it is a GT class car, heavy, at times ponderous, but it continues to inspire pure visceral enjoyment when I drive it. And while I am not claiming it "competes" with a Porsche, it is as much fun to drive in a different way. I guess that is my point -- I really do think Ferrari and Porsche compliment one another, as opposed to compete. Very different, equally amazing. As of now the GT2 is gone, the 575 remains. We'll see what happens when my 959 is finally ready for the road. In the immortal words of the great Rodney King: Can't we all just get along? | ||
| TC (Houston) (Tec)
Junior Member Username: Tec Post Number: 191 Registered: 2-2002 |
Bill, Speaking of which, weren't you supposed to have that operation this summer? Summer's almost over. BTW, why not do the short shifter now. It's a real simple mod (easily reversible too), and huge improvement in the shifting feel. It will shorten the throws and you'll get a much more precise positive in, positive out. | ||
| Ronin (Ronin)
Junior Member Username: Ronin Post Number: 56 Registered: 6-2003 |
"sigh" WM....you just shattered my whole image of the typical Texas female...LOL...maybe I watched too much "Dallas" growing up or something.... | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1557 Registered: 12-2001 |
Yeah, Ronin, but alot of them are conversions, ie they started life as men. Now, not that there's anything wrong with that, but... | ||
| Ronin (Ronin)
Junior Member Username: Ronin Post Number: 55 Registered: 6-2003 |
I have a 02 C4S which I love. Porsche makes a great performance car that you can comfortably drive everyday but being somewhat of a gearhead I also love Ferrari, I just wish I had the funds to own one. I think most people that are on this board appreciate all types of performance cars. Ferrari does have the more exotic look but I do get a lot of looks in the Porsche. As a matter of fact I was driving home the other day behind a Ferrari 456 and people were looking back and forth at the two cars, and this is in Connecticut were there are a fair number of performance cars. Hey DAVE (Marranelloman) I find it hard to believe that you haven't come across a woman with the same combo as Denise Richards in Texas. I here they grow'em like weeds down there! | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1556 Registered: 12-2001 |
TC: Initial upgrades: Ruf exhaust with racing cats; Bailey diverter valves; racing seats, roll bar and harnesses; air filter. Then, yes i would like to try it on a track. After that, maybe a short shifter and possibly a chip and different intake manifolds. If i am serious about track work, i will also buy a second set of rims with more track friendly tires. That's all for now. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1425 Registered: 8-2001 |
There's something about a 993 twin turbo that makes me smile everytime I see one. | ||
| Reiner Kaiser (Reinerkaiser)
Junior Member Username: Reinerkaiser Post Number: 96 Registered: 2-2001 |
I had a porsche 928 before I got the 348. I loved the engine of that car, great sound and performance. But believe it or not, the Ferrari is actually more reliable!! I wish Porsche had come out with a lower, face-lifted, meaner looking version of the 928, and forgot about that egg-shaped hatchback style design, perhaps with mid mounted engine, but UNDER 400k!!! I would have been all over that! Sorry but all current Porsche designs look too boring, typical german understatement... | ||
| TC (Houston) (Tec)
Junior Member Username: Tec Post Number: 189 Registered: 2-2002 |
Bill, What are you doing to the car upgrade wise? I think you mentioned mufflers before, anything else? Also, have you had a chance to play around at the track yet? | ||
| Dave White (Dwhite)
New member Username: Dwhite Post Number: 41 Registered: 5-2003 |
I was just looking at a twin turbo yesterday. Very nice! Maybe in the future. I believe they terrific performance, but not quite the cache of a ferrari. Still with that said they are unbelievable. | ||
| Clax (Clax)
Junior Member Username: Clax Post Number: 111 Registered: 10-2002 |
My P-Car thoughts: Purposeful Very well-built Strong performance (996TT) Boring appearance Design does not excite me Too common (for my taste) Would not buy any of the current models That said, I highly respect Porsche. If I had to drive a sports car every day, I may consider a Porsche. But, as a second or third car, the P-Car would not be my pick. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1555 Registered: 12-2001 |
As promised, for what it is worth. Keep in mind that the P car discussed here is a GT-2 which is not necessarily typical of an AWD TT, since its not AWD and has no traction control and more power and torque than a TT. External Appearance: 550 wins, at least from the crowds. I have been inured to the look of this model, so while i take pleasure in it (and i do think the coupe looks more balanced than the barchetta) and tend toward italian designs generally, the 550 is not the best pf design in history. The P car does not elicit the same "oohllala" from the girls as the F car; it is well recognized by gearheads, though. And, with the wing, and low profile, it looks pretty serious. Ferrari probably takes this category even among car buffs, and clearly wins among the masses, since the P car look is ubiquitous. That also means attention when you don't necessarily want it; hey, it can't be all things at all times. F car wins here. Interior Appearance: F car probably wins hands down. P interior boring. Control layout: like the gated shifter better than the P shifter, but the P shifts nicely. Wheel and pedal layout, seating adjustments,support, comfort, visibility of gauges about equal. Steering: P feels much less power assisted. F car feels "virtual" at moderate speed, and while it tightens up at speed, you can still feel the assist. Brakes: awesome on both cars. Driveability: The P is much stiffer, less lux and i prefer it. The 550 is a big heavy car and it never really lets you forget it. (My bid would be for a stripped-down 12 cyl for street use).The power comes on in the P car in typical turbo fashion; there is an abrupt difference once the turbos kick in hard. The P is much quicker than the 550 and so far, i haven't scared myself,but i am conscious of the rear engined nature of this beast, without any traction control. The F car feels totally at ease at speed, which is not a disguised complaint about too soft. Even my manly 512 BBi was pretty calm to drive at high speed, as long as you didn't have to worry about putting the back end out. With the 550, you don't have that worry, and you can drive the car hard without fear. I still think the P has more "feel" and bite and is more thrilling to drive than the 550, aesthetics and comfort aside. Fit and Finish: The P is a little plasticy, but well engineered and made. The F has higher quality interior stuff and it shows. Exhaust Note: Pretty mild on both cars in stock configuration. Mods/Upgrades: Depending on your viewpoint, the P wins here; its all about the aftermarket. I think most people who own ferrari road cars for street use don't do alot of fiddling, other than perhaps the exhaust. My comparison is based on stock versions of both models,although i have now begun to upgrade the GT-2. Overall: I think the 550 has more road presence, and is more "exotic" in appearance, design and interior fittings. Performance differences are probably academic for most purposes on the street although the GT-2 will be quicker off the line, and probably maintain an edge up to top speed. The F car will provide power more linearly, but it has a harder time putting all its power to the ground without spinning. Handlingwise, i think the F car is more GT than raw performance car, and it really shows when you jump into the GT-2. Cost effectiveness: Given that used 550's are trading in the 130k neighborhood, its a much better value. As investments, forget it. Drive the hell out of them. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1554 Registered: 12-2001 |
As soon as i get a little time, i will post my driving impressions of the 550 and GT-2. | ||
| todd montandon (Sllade)
Junior Member Username: Sllade Post Number: 164 Registered: 7-2003 |
lol yeah but we are dumb enought o try it again god must be a woman.lol.T | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
Junior Member Username: Minuke Post Number: 126 Registered: 7-2003 |
Todd, Do you know why divorce is so expensive? answer: It's worth It! | ||
| todd montandon (Sllade)
Junior Member Username: Sllade Post Number: 159 Registered: 7-2003 |
drtax stay married and cheat its much cheaper and there is no way a damn wife should screw you out of your toy, been there thats the first thing they want and oh yeah all your money and of course when you get married they say oh i would never do that.lets get a pre nup oh your already demeaning our marriage no i just want to make sure it isn't all about the money.damn women which they weren't so damn fine.T | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 255 Registered: 4-2003 |
As someone who, for now anyway, owns both, I sure hope that F-people and P-people don't get caught up in the same kind of bs that the Harley riders do, i.e., burning up a Honda at a rally to prove some kinda point. As a die hard, motorcycle guy, if it has two wheels and a motor, I like it. Some I like better than others, but I like all of em. When it comes to cars, I'm actually going through a personal test. For reasons that are not worth explaining, I somehow have got lucky enough to own a 2001 Porsche C4 and a 1998 Maranello at the same time. Unfortunately, one will have to go. (Getting divorced is expensive. Plus, my wife is a lot smarter than I am.) Problem is that even though both are sports cars, they are completely different cars. If I'm gonna make a run on the local back roads, there is no doubt that I'm gonna grab the keys to the Ferrari. GREAT GAWD ALMIGHTY! It's gonna take many a drive before I can say that I have mastered that car. Geeze Lousie, can that monster romp! But if I'm planning a road trip to Pebble beach, gotta take the Porsche. Not only is the Porsche more comfortable for a 6'2" guy; but those damn Germans, you just know that everything is going to work, everytime. This is important if you are waking up somewhere in Nevada, and it is time to boogie. Whenever, I drive the Ferrari on a trip, I can't help but to think about all them little valves doing their little valve thing and how little it would take for everything to just go chunk... Plus, the C4 is about balance. Instead of romping and stomping, and fussing and fighting like the Ferrari, the Porsche floats likes a butterfly. Driving smoothly becomes important. Yes, Grasshopper, life is good. Ah, what's a poor boy to do? | ||
| Bill Gomez (Bgomez)
New member Username: Bgomez Post Number: 9 Registered: 2-2003 |
Nicholas, It wasn't me but I sure wish I could have been there for the weekend! Bill | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 475 Registered: 4-2003 |
www.askmen/deniserichards bla bla bla.com (Dave's link). On the home page it reads: "Rent the movie Wild Thing and fast forward to the part wher she is in a threesome with Neve Cambell". One word: Schwing! | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 474 Registered: 4-2003 |
I get ragged on all the time for my 355 "only" having 375 horsepower. The 3.0/ 3.2 SC/Carerra only had around 190 HP. I looks fast as heck but that is not a lot of ponies by today's standards. The regular Boxster only has 215 (appx. as I am going of off recall) and linked to a 5 speed transmission. The "S" had the 996 calipers and rotors, around 20-25 more HP and a six speed. The power is derived from the top end of the RPM range and is a bit sluggish of the bottom. The lap times are very similar (slightly faster than the BMW Z3 roadster). It really is a well balanced car, and anything I said was only in fun. Heck, I have owned MANY P-Cars and quite frankly they just don't do it for me anymore. I do not judge ANYONE for what they drive as I really do not care. Life is way too short for that. Enjoy. | ||
| Nicholas Johns (Rexcoltrain)
New member Username: Rexcoltrain Post Number: 15 Registered: 2-2002 |
Bill, Were you in New Orleans this past weekend? I saw a red/tan 360 that looked like a recent purchase a few times in and around the french quarter. I almost wrecked saturday night turning to look at it! | ||
| Andy Barre (Abarre)
New member Username: Abarre Post Number: 22 Registered: 7-2003 |
Nice shots! Great pair of cars.... | ||
| Dr. Shelbee (Shelbee)
Member Username: Shelbee Post Number: 446 Registered: 12-2002 |
Keep Ferraris for guys and Porsche for Ferrari wanna be and female spouses' Make sure it is tiptronic too | ||
| Bill Gomez (Bgomez)
New member Username: Bgomez Post Number: 8 Registered: 2-2003 |
David: As requested here are some pics. 500 miles so far on the Ferrari and still have a grin on my face! Bill        | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 916 Registered: 4-2002 |
My take: Porsche makes great engines, great chassis chassis, competent well sorted suspensions; But Porsche mas never made a car I would want to be seen inside. Its just me, the 911 shape just does not push any of my buttons. THe 993 was the only shape even remotely on my desirability list. Now, if Porsche made a 917 short tail like found in the movie LeMans. Sure. But the current lineup, no. | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 117 Registered: 4-2003 |
Most of the bickering back and forth between owners of each is just playing. I give my mechanic hell about having 2 911's and 3 944's, but he's always going on about my V12 Fiat. Different target audiences and different products. Comparing apples and oranges. Both have found a customer base that is willing to pay for their products and make money in the process. I did see a quote that I found quite humorous the other day "911, every German dentist can't be wrong" or something to that regard... They're nice, but I have no desire to own one. Mainly because I don't fit in most of the 911's. | ||
| Adam (Fasttalk)
Junior Member Username: Fasttalk Post Number: 129 Registered: 8-2002 |
I own both, a Porsche you can justify as a somewhat practical car, but a whole lot of fun and relativly low maintenance to drive every day, not to mention a total blast when you want to push it to the limit. There is no way to justify the F-car, you buy it just because you want it, and love it. The f-car makes me smile every time I open the garage, and I thank my lucky stars. | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 253 Registered: 4-2003 |
>>Denise Richards is married to Charlie Sheen, and has one of the best combinations of face & figure I have ever seen. << Geeze, I really need to get out more.... Last movie I saw was Toy Story. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Moderator Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 2201 Registered: 8-2002 |
"Porsche has really sold out on its image and reputation by making the Cayanne which is something you will never see Ferrari do." You're mistaken. Ferrari LITERALLY sold out to Fiat (who builds all types of vehicles). Porsche builds income-producing vehicles like the Cayenne in order to remain one of the last independent sports car manufacturers. They also build world-class performance machines like the 911 TT, GT3, GT2, and Carrera GT. Everyone here knows I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Ferrari nut, but I also have a great deal of respect for the Porsche marque and what it stands for. And, of course, my daily driver is a 996 Carrera that I've used and seriously abused for over 60,000 miles with NO PROBLEMS (only changed the oil about once every 15,000 miles!). | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2407 Registered: 1-2002 |
Dale, no. Denise Richards is married to Charlie Sheen, and has one of the best combinations of face & figure I have ever seen. http://www.askmen.com/women/10_denise_richards.html  | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
Member Username: Drtax Post Number: 252 Registered: 4-2003 |
Bill, tell me more about the GT2. How does the rush compare to a 550? >>more fun to drive than Denise Richards<< Is this the gal who used to be guy GP motorcycle racer? | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1551 Registered: 12-2001 |
What the world looks like thru the windshield, how the car feels in your hands, and what it does when you stomp on the gas, the brake or twist the wheel; what does it feel like to you? When you are not behind the wheel, does just looking at it excite? Alot of owners here will readily admit that they've traded off some performance for the aesthetic, both visual and tactile, of the ferrari. I just bought a GT-2. Its more fun to drive than Denise Richards. What was the question? | ||
| David Stoeppelwerth (Racerdj)
Member Username: Racerdj Post Number: 342 Registered: 1-2003 |
Hey Bill Gomez, How about a pix of your new car? | ||
| Jim Avery (Boxer12)
Junior Member Username: Boxer12 Post Number: 92 Registered: 6-2003 |
I drove an '85 Euro Carrera for 13 years, partly because the bottom fell out of the resale market for the car and I always thought it was better than anything I could get in trade within reason, even a new one. Now, I have a '91 Testarossa, and it is much more thrilling to drive, and much more pleasing to admire, inside and out. No comparison in my book, unless you are talking numbers. I also must add that nobody ever passed me in the esses in the mtns in that Carrera, not once! Not on two wheels or four. (OK, once a guy on a rice rocket passed me and then almost piled into a rock wall on the upcoming corner as he broke loose braking...then I passed him and he stayed behind) I hope to become that competent in my Fcar someday soon. | ||
| TC (Houston) (Tec)
Junior Member Username: Tec Post Number: 182 Registered: 2-2002 |
Here's some P-car F-car love. I could outrun him in the corners, but he blew by me on the straights. Sounded awesome.  | ||
| TC (Houston) (Tec)
Junior Member Username: Tec Post Number: 181 Registered: 2-2002 |
Dave, sorry, I really wasn't meaning to stir up a debate about the merits of the Boxster. My comment was in response to P. Thomas' comment that it's the "Slope Nosed Audi" and it was purchased by Yahoos. As I think about it more perhaps that's true to some extent. It is no coincidence that only about 1 in 20 Boxsters I encounter on the street will ever return a wave or a flash. Sorry to be overly defensive. I am a bit biased.  | ||
| will h (Willh)
Junior Member Username: Willh Post Number: 151 Registered: 3-2003 |
Have a '99 360 and a '93 911 Cab. Love the older Porsches, particularly the 356s. Wouldn't mind having a GT3, for that matter. But my heart is in the Italian cars. There certainly do seem to be a lot of Porsches in the world today. Was down in the Palm Beach area over Christmas, and every other car seemed to be a 996. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 472 Registered: 4-2003 |
>>You can find a ton of used Boxsters in the 30's now>>. Update that to the low to mid 20s for the early models (not the "S") | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 726 Registered: 4-2002 |
Both are very good cars. I have a 328 I used to track. I also have a modified 944T that I currently track. They are the premier sports cars. I like both. They are different. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 471 Registered: 4-2003 |
The old SCs required a special check valve on the intake systems, without that an unkowing P-Car driver cranked over his beloved SC on a cold start and KABOOM, it sounded like a bomb went of 6 inches behind your head (it would blow up the air box into a million pieces). The valves ran a very tight (.004) clearance as I recall. If you did not adjust your valves every 5K to 7.5K miles then you could easily fry a valve as the exhaust valve seated. Today the P-cars have hydraulic lifters which never require any adjustment, and utilize a really cool variable cam timing on the 996. They are putting Mobil 1 in for oil and the Dealer will not touch your car for service if your 15K interval is not reeached (there is no 7500 intermediate service). This is pretty cool for the owner, but with that it has brought a new bread to their marque. Many of the enthusiast are no longer around (or it seems that way through dilution of all the "new" era P-car owners). That is the part that puts me off the most. Now young Joe College Grad. goes out and buys (leases) the slope nose Audi , very, very common to lease those cars. I ask him a basic question and he has that deer in the headlights look.The guy knows noting about his car or P-Cars in general. Again, just a whole new breed of owners. My .002 | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1423 Registered: 5-2001 |
TC, Where in this thread is the Boxster getting "ragged on"? One person commented on not liking the look, another on it looking just like the more expensive cars, and me saying they probably out perform my 16yo 328 (big surprise...) . I think we can all agree the Boxster is the performance bargain of the P-car line up. One arguement made, that has some validity, is that the Boxster raised the performance bar for Porsche to the point that is has backfired in some ways. Like was said before, you can get the "look" and very respectable performance for half the price of their upper tier cars. You can find tons of used Boxsters around now for $30k or so. | ||
| TC (Houston) (Tec)
Junior Member Username: Tec Post Number: 180 Registered: 2-2002 |
Lately we've been doing occasional joint FCA/PCA events. Everyone seems to get along great. | ||
| Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
Junior Member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 222 Registered: 4-2002 |
John: I was raised in a Porsche family. When I started lusting after Ferraris my father would always look at me and say..."where did I go wrong as a father?"...half in jest and I guess half serious! I think that there are still two great sports car companies in the world, namely Ferrari and Porsche. I do think that Porsche has lost its way a bit with the 996 and worst of all the Cayenne or what ever that monstrosity is called. I know they are independent without the financial support that Fiat provides Ferrari but I don't think they are very farsighted at the current time. Having said that, when Porsche puts its mind to it they have always been able to produce some of the best racing and road cars around. They just don't move me the way Enzo's creations do. Regards, Mark | ||
| TC (Houston) (Tec)
Junior Member Username: Tec Post Number: 179 Registered: 2-2002 |
I really don't understand why the Boxster gets ragged on so badly. It's a great sports car. Seriously, there's not another car under $80k that I'd rather own as a daily driver sports car. | ||
| Augustine J. Staino (Azzuro328)
Junior Member Username: Azzuro328 Post Number: 160 Registered: 4-2003 |
I agree with many of the sentiments expressed so far. Ferrari and Porsche have always been my favorite two marques. I've had several Porsche 911 models and I would have one again. They are great cars but they are very different from a Ferrari. To me, they are the functional alternative. I am a big fan of their styling, but I would never go as far as to call any Porsche drop dead gorgeous. On the other hand, most F-cars are painfully beautiful in my opinion! Both companies follow a different philosophy and it can be seen in the cars themselves. I remember reading a quote from the Porsche factory that went something like "We don't build cars that are meant to be something for everyone, but everything for someone." I was always a believer in this idea and I think that it was true with the air-cooled cars. After Ferry Porsche's death though, I'm not sure that that philosophy is still intact. The Cayenne is a perfect example. Unless the engine from this SUV somehow makes it's way into a race car in some form, it would seem that it was made purely with dollar signs in mind. It's my guess that this is the case. I don't think that Ferrari would ever go to this length to make an extra buck. I think that their rigid stance on limiting yearly production totals to 4,000 cars is evidence to that. Still, they are both wonderful cars and companies, just for different reasons. Oh, one more thing. My biggest gripe with the new 996 Carreras is the sound that the doors make opening and closing. All air-cooled 911s have a clunk sound that's awesome. Makes the car seem very solid. The new one sounds like a Chevy. Damn. | ||
| Stephen E. Schroeder (Seschroeder)
Junior Member Username: Seschroeder Post Number: 73 Registered: 4-2002 |
I have a 2001 Corvette that I use as my daily driver. It's fast, handles well, gets great gas milage (22 MPG in town), and is basically bullett proof. I'm pleased with it. I also have a 1982 308 GTSi and if one car had to go it would be the Corvette. Soon I'll replace the Corvette with a Porsche because I've never had one and before I died I will. The Corvette is nice but it lacks the hertiage of a Ferrari or Porsche - it just ISN'T the same. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 470 Registered: 4-2003 |
Coming from a guy (me) that started with a 911s (the studs were notorius for pulling away from the cases), to a 911SC where the tensioners had to upgraded, to a 3.2 Carerra, to a 993 (best car I ever owned), been there done that. P-Cars are WAY too common these days. With the introduction of the "Slope Nosed Audi" (Boxster) every Yahoo now owns a P-Car. Having said that, I do not dislike any of the P-Cars (or owners), it just literally does nothing for me any longer. They are just too common. For the money I paid for my 355 Spider I could have had a 996TT which is FAR more reliable. My F-car has been in the shop twice already in the 4 months, but I REALLY do not mind. | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 559 Registered: 2-2001 |
My 911 ('69 E upgraded to S) best sports car I've owned....would buy another one in a heartbeat | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Intermediate Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 1615 Registered: 12-2002 |
I love Porsche. Porsche and Ferrari both seem to have rich histories which really interest me. I agree with you that Porsche has seemed to have lost its mystique with the newer cars...I, myself, am partial to 356s, early 911s, and the 914. If my insurance wasn't so high as a young driver, Id be driving a 944 Turbo instead of my Mustang...but the cost of insuring me in a Porsche would have been 3 times more than a Mustang! Nothing can beat the look of a nice 356 speedster though! Ill be adding one to my garage in the future, though after a Ferrari or two | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 2827 Registered: 2-2001 |
I like a lot of Porsches the 930 turbo, 993 turbo, 996 turbo & GT2 are all awesome as well as the 962, 917, I even like the 914-6 911s before the 993 were a bit too froggy looking for my taste | ||
| Lee Hamner (Tennlee)
Junior Member Username: Tennlee Post Number: 120 Registered: 2-2002 |
I have a Ferrari, but would love to add a Porsche to the family. Just don't want to pay for it... ;) | ||
| Bill Gomez (Bgomez)
New member Username: Bgomez Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2003 |
I am new to Ferrari ownership and just recently fulfilled my childhood dream in the form of an 03 360. I only have 500 miles on my car so I am definitely new to the F-car "scene" so I am not qualified to really say how Ferrari owners feel about Porsche. I currently also have an 03 996TT and I can relate to some of your comments. Personally I feel that Porsche has betrayed many loyal P-car owners by increasing production numbers of the 996TT to the point that it has lost value and appeal. I also think it's lost some appeal due to it's similarity in styling and interior with the Boxster costing half as much. In these respects I do think they have "sold out to appeal to the broader masses" but I still continue to drive the TT and think it's a great car. That being said, had the circumstances that enabled me to purchase the Ferrari existed 8 months ago I would have not purchased the 996TT. | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 620 Registered: 4-2002 |
Dave, >>....the Ferrari is for the idiot that thinks with his/her heart first!<<< HEY NOW, i resemble that remark! :-) You make me proud and it is so true. Not sure if i should now be laughing... or crying... yet EVERY time i drive her she puts a BIG :-) on my face. 1985 308QV: $35k or so Major Service: $4-5k The feeling and sound as you drive: PRICELESS Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| John Christopher (Johncj8989)
New member Username: Johncj8989 Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2003 |
I read that 50% of all Porsches on the planet are located in southern Cali. I suppose there are more than a few Ferraris running around there as well. Living in a small state as I do a Porsche will still turn heads but a Ferrari will break necks. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1420 Registered: 5-2001 |
Your first question was "Ferrari owner's attitude towards Porsche". I think you'll find the great majority of owners here to be basically car nuts, and like all types of cars, but with a preferrence for Ferrari. A 308/328 is hardly the "pinnacle of performance" these days (I owned a 308 and now have a 328), but when compared to other period cars, they are pretty good. But what attracts me most to the Ferrari marque is the distinct look (or style) of the cars, the unique sounds, operation and over all driving experience of them. There is really nothing else like it...and bottom line, there is a neat "exclusivity" to owning one, not that they are particulary expensive(at least the 308/328/Mondial series), but they are rather rare. I believe the Porsche meets or exceeds Ferraris when based on similar dollar cost (not by year), when based on engineering and performance; that is my $40-45k spent on a 328 would get me WAY more performance in a P-car. But when we touch on "sex appeal" and "mystique" the nod goes to Ferrari. How many times have you had people literally stop in an intersection and block traffic with their car to gawk at your car? Has happened to me. How many times have people run up to look and snap pictures and tell you how they still dream some day of owning the very car you drive? I regularly let total strangers sit in my car so they can have their picture taken in it, and it is obvious this is a very special moment for them. People hardly cast a glance at a Boxster or 996 these days. I'm surprised my 16 yo car can produce a crowd of people looking it over when I came out of the local Chinese restaurant last night...(picking up some take-out). Porsche is for the "thinking man or woman", the Ferrari is for the idiot that thinks with his/her heart first! Otherwise I would not put up with all the little crap that breaks or wears out prematurely (well, premature for any other car). :-) Porsche have a "place of honor"? Of course, since a Boxster would probably smoke my 328 off the line and on a track. BTW, most of the new members in our local FCA chapter were very active in the Porsche club, they just got bored with the cars, and needed something more exciting... | ||
| Andy Barre (Abarre)
New member Username: Abarre Post Number: 19 Registered: 7-2003 |
My 3.2 Mondial is my first european sports car (even though it's really more of a GT). My decision was between the Ferrari and a 993 cab. Ended up with the F-car for two reasons: Back seats are usable (for toddler seats) and you don't see them every day around here. Or more than 2-3 times per year actually. Other than those, I love 911's and have wanted one forever. My mechanic here is an independent shop that specializes in 911's and 914's and builds lots of race cars. One of the guys there used to work on F-cars in Atlanta. He did a 30K service and put a clutch in my car. According to him, Ferraris aren't that much different mechanically (vintage for vintage) from Porsches. If anything, the Porsches look more complex to me... That all said, I'm glad I have the Ferrari. Much better noises and style - to me. For a cost-effective speed appliance, I think the 911 is probably a better car. But there's no comparison in the attention you get, at least around my neck of the woods... | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
Junior Member Username: Minuke Post Number: 120 Registered: 7-2003 |
Kal, I think a well maintained 308 will get more attention than a brand new 996 Turbo! | ||
| Kal (Suprakal)
New member Username: Suprakal Post Number: 43 Registered: 4-2003 |
Well I'm not a porsche or Ferrari owner but I will say this much Porsche has really sold out on its image and reputation by making the Cayanne which is something you will never see Ferrari do. An english automotive website wrote this really good article about it: http://www.pistonheads.com/truth/default.asp?storyId=3809 I always consider Porsche a good 50/50 balance of performance for dollor and reputation/looks. The only bad part is the average person can't tell much difference between a $85,000 Carrera 4 vs $100K GT3 vs $120K Turbo vs $185K GT2. Porsche sells these cars like hot cakes here and believe me there are a TON. Living in Southern California I see more porsche's on the road then civics in the slighty more upper class areas (no joke) so I think a lot of the porsche "pimp" factor has been lost where as a Ferrari is still rare and still holds that Ferrari name and I know people would go way more nuts over a $110,000 used 360 over a brand new $180K GT2. I rented a 2001 996 Turbo for a day and really didn't get that much attention to tell you the truth vs the used and abused 2001 Viper GTS I rented which brought way way way more attention, infact at stop lights I had everyone starring while I was in the viper. I guess that is only a phenomenon here where porsche is as common as mcdonalds. But I enjoyed driving the porsche much more and it is quite a fantastic car for the money. Really comes down to personal prefrence I Guess. | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
Junior Member Username: Minuke Post Number: 118 Registered: 7-2003 |
John, I think with the introduction of the 996 they started going after a more general audience. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 2184 Registered: 7-2001 |
I don't dislike Porsches, nor do I want one. I see 50 a day, so they don't strike me as 'unique'. I think they make a great daily driver for someone that wants a sportscar every day. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 1219 Registered: 3-2002 |
John, I think you will find that most Ferrari enthusiasts respect Porsches, and in some cases own one or more of both makes. Both companies have a rich heritage, on the street and on the track, and have equally earned their places on top of the automotive world. From time to time though you will see a radical Porsche extremist show up and spout off, praising P Cars and slamming Ferraris. That is when the Ferrari community digs in its collective heels and attacks back. It's kind of like the way that it's O.K. to make fun of your alcoholic uncle, but for an outsider to do the same is a serious no-no! | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 2403 Registered: 1-2002 |
John, I love Porsches, especially the 993 & 2002-2003 996 cars. If I didn't have my beloved 1997 M3, I would buy a 996 as a daily driver. In fact, our FCA chapter here does a whole bunch of events with the local PCA folks---we all share the love of fine, high-performance autos, regardless of brand. | ||
| Dom Vitarella (Dom)
Member Username: Dom Post Number: 344 Registered: 11-2002 |
I love Porsches in general, but they are not my cup of tea. I am an italian car guy. I'm a fan not only of the 911's, but also the 914. Dom | ||
| Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
Member Username: 4re308 Post Number: 999 Registered: 6-2001 |
Joel, I love the Porsche 911s. As a matter of fact, I will be replacing my beloved GTI VR6 with a 911 as a daily driver in the near future. I will of course keep my 308 so I can have both. I also had a 95 993 that was fast as hell, but my 308 is more fun to drive. | ||
| John Christopher (Johncj8989)
New member Username: Johncj8989 Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2003 |
First off I am new to your community and I am enjoying it very much. I'm a Porsche owner and enthusiast but will soon be fulfilling a childhood dream by getting a 308 or 328 in the near future. I was curious as to how the Ferrari enthusiast feels about the Porsche 911 as far as sex appeal/engineering/performance and overall mystique goes. This question often comes up on a Porsche BBS that I frequent in regards to Ferrari and how Porsche owners look at them. Ferrari in general is considered by most the pinnacle of performance and style although it isnt everybodies cup of tea. Some are too loyal to their particular brand to give any props to another manufacturer. I do somewhat feel as though Porsche has lost some of its appeal in the last few years with the advent of the 996 body style which is too Lexus for me. Porsche has also limited their involvement in factory sponsored racing whereas Ferrari is very active in F1 and such. Does Porsche in your opinions still hold a place of honor or have they become just another manufacturer who has sold out to appeal to the broader masses? |