| Author | Message | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Junior Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 212 Registered: 3-2002 |
That's it exactly, Manu. Today, it takes the complete package that Michael has. And that has come at the expense of the "good old days". Not necessarily better or worse, just different. My gripes with F1 reside more in the engineering end of things. And if Irvine is the only kind of "personality" we can expect from drivers today, I'll take a pass. (Sorry Nika--I know you cherish that helmet!) | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 204 Registered: 2-2002 |
I think you guys maybe want a vocal good looking guy who talks a lot and has a different beautiful girlfriend with him on the grid and lets his emotions run wild.... Perhap he can't do the Girl thing etc but the guy is clearly an emotional man..... very emotional: - remember Jerez '97 - emotion got the better of him and he rammed Villeneuve? - I think Silverstone '94 - he ignored the black flag after overtaking Damon Hill on the parade lap becuase he was soo pissed. - Monza last year - broke down and started crying uncontrollably after being told he'd overtaken Senna in the most wins standings. - look at how happy he is when he wins - his face is overcome with joy. - ran in Coulthards unsighted McLaren at Spa in 98 and had to be held back by the Ferrari team to stop him kicking the •••• of Coulthard..... You guys are WRONG about his personality. It is clear that Racing is the thing he values most highly in his life (excluding his family). - it is only natural that his personality be exhibited while racing......... .......out on the track. The old days have gone - Villeneuve SNR was charismatic all right but he never won Ferrari a title...... Any driver can be charismatic off the track and show Personality (eg Eddie Irvine) - but it takes a genius to do it when you race AND WIN. | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 514 Registered: 12-2001 |
Ferrari's budget is over $300 million - Look at Schumacher's paycheck - someone has to pay and it's the sponsors. Any racer must take care of the sponsors image. Being a big sponsor you want some sort of exclusivity as well as a marketing benefit. Gone are the days when talent could get you racing - now you need talent and money to get on the track. | ||
| Robert Jude Klein (Rjklein4470)
Junior Member Username: Rjklein4470 Post Number: 76 Registered: 3-2002 |
I would like to talk about the mystique that is lost with the modern day athlete. In my opinion it is called corporate sponsorship. The athletes are representing corporations, and the corporations are very clear how they want there athletes to behave. Did you notice at the end of the race, Michael stopped to pick up his brother Ralf, and give him a ride to the pits. Now you know that Ralf would have taken that ride if BMW would not have gone ballistic. I do agree I would love to see more passion, Like the time A.J. Foyt's car broke down at indy, and he climbed out of the car and took the hammer away from the mech. and started beating the sh@t out of his car. I love that. Or the time that Tony Stewert crashed into Jeff Gorden after the race for pay back. Now that might be too far, but the point is I would like the drivers to be them selves first, and let the corporte PR people have ther job's back. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 640 Registered: 9-2001 |
Ed Ferraris don't go in the rain, they melt  | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1244 Registered: 2-2001 |
When it rains, all cars are equal. Who is the best driver then? | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Junior Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 203 Registered: 3-2002 |
I respect Schumacher to no end. One championship can be the result of a fluke, but not 5+. However, and I think this is a problem with modern drivers and athletes in general, is it's hard to warm up to them, to "put your arms around them", as someone else once said. There is a missing mystique or romanticism today, and I think that is a big part of the reason we hold on to bygone heroes. | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Junior Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 171 Registered: 4-2001 |
I believe that Schumacher is giving a serious amount of money to charity. Something most of the other well paid F1-drivers don't. That worth something in my eyes. Ciao Peter | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 633 Registered: 9-2001 |
I do understand a little of what you mean and I know you like him but if you think Senna was not arrogant on and off the track I think you are mistaken. He wore a special helmet so people would see him and get out of the way! I think most great drivers are arrogant on and off the track - with obvious exceptions. I think Schumi's problem is he is married and not a wild playboy that would fit the sterotypical racer. His most exciting stuff off the track is the local town in Swiss not approving permits for his 40m home. I would not hold it against him, to me he gives more public credit to the team effort in success than most drivers. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2023 Registered: 5-2001 |
I hear you Bret! Great driver, great skills but shitty personality! | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2516 Registered: 2-2001 |
I'm coming off wrong. He is fast as hell, there's no denying that. Personally I almost think he's faster than Prost or Senna, each of them could rise to the occasion though. I like Senna a lot, his wild driving style, coming out of corners sideways constantly. I like to think of him as the fastest in modern drivers, but once again Schumi is no slouch. Wow, it would be a hell of a race to see Prost, Schumi, and Senna together now if we could. There's just something about Schumi that I think is missing. It's not in his driving. Just something like the stories you hear about these other drivers that make them legends. Gilles Villeneuve notoriously doing donuts almost everyday in the factory parking lot in a street Ferrari, Senna's wild driving too. Prost is so composed on the track, but off the track you hear stories about him hot rodding around and almost getting arrested in the States on a jet ski, etc. There's just something about Schumacher that makes me feel he is quite egotistical, he just portrays that arrogance, albeit he can back it up on the track, but off the track it is still there. So, I'm not gonna say he's not the fastest now. I think that the competition is getting closer and closer in skill, but he is still that fastest driver around. I don't hate him by any means, I'm just kind of indifferent about him I guess. His good is balanced out by his mediocre qualities. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 632 Registered: 9-2001 |
watching the william's chief mechanic getting run over was interesting. I saw the replay later in the day and can't beleive his reaction was to stick his foot out to stop the car - a losing proposition. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Junior Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 134 Registered: 2-2002 |
Don't worry Martin, you didn't miss much. It was a typical, dominant performance by Schumacher, which translates into a real yawner. My hat is off to Michael and the team, but ovderwhelming superiority doesn't make for great television. As I was watching my 9 year old son walked by. The current race standings were on the screen. "Schumacher first, Montoya second," he yawned. "What else is new?" And he continued on to other things. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2014 Registered: 5-2001 |
I can not believe this : I MISSED THE RACE ! For some reason I though Barcelona was in a week! CRAP! | ||
| Robert Jude Klein (Rjklein4470)
Junior Member Username: Rjklein4470 Post Number: 75 Registered: 3-2002 |
How about this, maybe all the drives and constructors should be separate, and they should draw out of a hat to see what driver will drive for which team for that race. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 630 Registered: 9-2001 |
Bret How can you say Schui has no personality? He is very carasmatic and articulate in two languages. Albeit a lot of italians don't like the fact that he does not speak try to speak italian he has shown a very emotional side at ferrari. Did you ever see how excited he got for the italian national anthems, until he was critized for not being respectful? The guy loves to win but loves to win more with Ferrari - you have to like that. For some reason I feel the sept 11 tradegy weighs on him - I am not sure why him more than others | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 203 Registered: 2-2002 |
Bret - I think you are overlooking Schumis RAW speed - Schumacher is the FASTEST driver of his generation too. He has been outqualified by his team mate something like 6 times in his whole career. How fast is he? Look at his racing in wet conditions. Although you attribute his success to the TEAM, what were Ferrari before he came? He overcame the politcal cauldron that Ferrari was, he can focus engineers, he can motivate teams, he can drive fast enough to allow Ferrari to consider strategies unavailable to other teams, he doesn't really make mistakes, he is easy on the machinery, he is a rain master, he is an aggressive racer - not afraid to overtake, the list goes on. No he doesn't have much OUTWARD personality - but today that is the cost of winning - he is single minded in his determination to win. He doesn't care about whether WE (the public) think he'd be a laugh to have a drink with - for that he has his family and friends (and the Ferrari team who know muchhim much better). 20 years from now, when Ferrari are languishing mid-grid we will speak of him in MUCH higher regard - in the same tones as Fangio, Clark, Villeneuve etc and we'll be praying for a single minded human computer like him, obsessed with winning, to join Ferrari and bring us back to the sharp end. The man is a genius. Others may come close to matching his speed but only he could have taken Ferrari to the their current level of UTTER dominance. For example even the great Alain Prost couldn't do it. | ||
| Steve Smith (Steve308)
New member Username: Steve308 Post Number: 9 Registered: 2-2002 |
More than anyoneone else Schumacher knows exactly how to get the right team round him. He HAS been the driving force behind rebuilding Ferrari. He's a stunning driver, head and sholders above the field - especially in the wet and I admire the guyy intensely... but anyone notice that for the past TWO RACES it's been Barrichello who's found the right set up for the car first? This last race Schumi only set fastest time after really studying Rubino's set up. At Imola he actually took over and drove Barichello's car himself! There's TWO great drivers in red cars out there. Shame that when it comes to racing Rubens seems to have the worst luck in the history of F1... | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2514 Registered: 2-2001 |
I'm just not gonna worship Schumacher. I like him a lot, moreso than any of the other drivers now. I think he brings the team together very well. If you were to say that he was the best driver in this respect I would have to agree. His car evaluation and development is above anyone else. But as far as driving, there are a lot of very good drivers out there. I just don't see Schumacher as definitive a driver as Fangio or some of the other greats, who did overwhelmingly amazing things in a car. And as far as driving, I'm sure any of the past great racers could be quite proficient at driving a modern F1 car. It's not like they're different genetically or something and not capable of learning how to drive a modern car. They obviously have the talent necessary to do so. I just see F1 now as basically a monopoly by Ferrari. Schumacher just racks up wins because there is no real competition for the Ferrari TEAM. 20 years ago you were lucky if you finished half the races, nowadays Ferrari has some ridiculously high finishing rate, well above 90%, I think it's closer to 97% actually. It is a totally different era and you can say you can't compare, but I still will. I'm not retarded, I can understand the differences and have watched F1 for a few years now and read quite a bit about the old days of it. My point is there are several drivers now that if were to switch places with Schumacher would win a lot more. Not as much as him is true, but I'd bet pretty damn close. What about the people that beat him at some points, like Hakinnen when he was winning. Him on the Ferrari team now would be very hard to beat wouldn't you say. I also think Schumacher is boring. I mean he has no personality whatsoever when compared to people like Senna, Gilles Villeneuve is off the charts in this department. My big point here is that there is a ton of team work involved, and they're not just winning because of Schumacher. | ||
| Robert Jude Klein (Rjklein4470)
Junior Member Username: Rjklein4470 Post Number: 74 Registered: 3-2002 |
sorry if I spoiled the race I just thought that everybody would have watched it this am, and not pm. Bret remeber when shumi got to ferrari they were close to the slowest car. The fact remains shumi makes the teem a winner | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Junior Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 72 Registered: 1-2002 |
Bret, Fangio, as great as he was, was from an entirely different era. And, it's been said before that you can not juxtapose drivers from one era into another. Going back that far and bringing Fangio into the realm of a modern grand prix car is not as facile as simply saying that he would outdrive both, hands down. Fangio, I believe, couldn't even begin to drive a modern car at the limit, it would be utterly alien to him. The cars of his time and legend cant hold a candle, technically speaking, to modern GP cars, no way, and the skills required are very different. If Fangio did drive a modern GP car in anger, I would wager that he lose conciosness w/in moments, either under acceleration, braking, or cornering. Had you said, Gilles Vilnneuve, that would have been an entirely different story. There is a prime example of a man, in an inferior car, beating the odds, time and time again! | ||
| David Bob� Jr. (Supraoz)
Junior Member Username: Supraoz Post Number: 100 Registered: 9-2001 |
Michael wins with bad cars, in 96 he won w/ Ferrari and the car was awful. Michael is Priceless | ||
| Randy (Schatten)
Member Username: Schatten Post Number: 292 Registered: 4-2001 |
please be kind and put [spoiler] in the subject line or any other kind of warnings for those of us who have not finished the race yet. sure we can skip reading these kinds of posts, but its just a thought - to be considerate to others. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 339 Registered: 2-2001 |
Bret, that is a deep comment.. of course Schumi wouldnt win championships in the slowest car... who would? Not Fangio and not Senna... Ernesot | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2512 Registered: 2-2001 |
I'd still put my money on Fangio beating either one of them though. I still think the team makes a big difference. Schumacher is the best now, there's no denying that, but if he was driving the slowest car he wouldn't win. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Junior Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 71 Registered: 1-2002 |
Definatly, when you look back and read about the drivers in F1 history that made and broke long established records you come to understand two things, 1). they had a very instinctive brilliance to feeling the car out, conveying what they felt to the engineers, and holding the car on the edge. 2). Nothing but winning matters, period. This was true w/ Senna as it is w/ Schumi. | ||
| Robert Jude Klein (Rjklein4470)
Junior Member Username: Rjklein4470 Post Number: 73 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ok Michael drove a perfect race, and some time ago there was a thread about the amount of $$ that ferrari was spending on there F-1 season, and in some way that there access to capital was the reason that they ware so successfull. But lets look at the man behind the glory. when he came to ferrari they only had a couple of podium finishes, and now they dominate. Every team that he has been with has dominated. I have one statement to make " no driver can ballance a F-1 car like Michael", and that is the reason he is the multi million dollar man. It is one thing to drive a perfect race, but it is another to get your team in a position to be able to offer that perfect race to the driver. |