| Author | Message | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 2167 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>I know that one of them definitely should be!<< Yea ONE for sure {  }!!! Happy probably barely describes how ONE of them feels !! { } And whatever Slick Pitch Man was in the deal for the Commish is likely tickled Sh!tless also!! { } Let's see....is the restored version of that POS going to pop up in a few years with Potentate Lineage? Or does that 'rumor' already exist and now it's just a matter of creating, I mean finding the papers? | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Moderator Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 2256 Registered: 8-2002 |
JRV, the car has sold and, reportedly, for a handsome amount of cash. Both parties are said to be pleased with the transaction. I know that one of them definitely should be! | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 2166 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>Asking price? I'd say that Ms. Wilson is entertaining offers above $30k.<< If someone pays that, it will once again validate P.T.Barnum! And validate my post about the aluminum 328 that all that car needed was a slick pitch man to knock some fools wallet in the dirt with tales of windfalls and blue sky coming on the morrows sun! | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 2244 Registered: 7-2001 |
She ought to be shot and buried while bleeding for letting these cars rot. | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 153 Registered: 4-2003 |
I've posted pictures of the others here: http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/364/301953.html?1060477465 http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/364/301926.html?1060477243 http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/364/301886.html?1060477077 And please, don't attack me. I didn't buy anything, just passing the info along. Besides, I had more fun hunting these down than trying to find my ball on the Robert Trent Jones course this morning. | ||
| TWS (Au_fan)
New member Username: Au_fan Post Number: 21 Registered: 5-2003 |
The 330 America is one of my favorite Ferraris. I realize that it would be financially foolish, but if I had more money than I knew what to do with, I would love to restore it and then drive it. While it makes much more monetary sense to buy one already in good condition, people tend to have a lot more passion for a car that they have restored with their own hands versus one they purchased ready to drive (and it isn't always about the money). Someday there will be no 330 Americas left, and only then will the car receive the praise and attention that it (and every Ferrari) deserves. Its too bad that I wasn't aware of the car the 9 years I lived in Auburn. I would have loved to have gone to see the vehicle. TWS | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5557 Registered: 5-2001 |
James, I for one would not do it either. I stated my offer for this car. I would take the body off the car and hang it on the wall, use the Chassis for a GTO replika. Here is one on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2425574259&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ARECO%3AUS%3A2 What I am saying is that there is a market for everything. There might be that guy who loves restauration and this car has some connection to him and his past and he does not mind paying for it! | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 861 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jim,
Each to their own, but luckily we all have different tastes otherwise we would all be lusting after the same woman ... and man she would soon be tired of all the attention. To keep the car world interesting we need to save and restore a cross-section, even a few A to B boring cars. If all the cars were GTOs and Daytonas we would bore of them quickly. Pete | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2258 Registered: 10-2002 |
BTW if anyone wants a very nice fully restored 330 with redone Borani's and chrome there's one in this months Hemmings for 42K. | ||
| Tony Fuisz (Fuiszt)
Junior Member Username: Fuiszt Post Number: 115 Registered: 10-2002 |
I visited this place a few years ago-there had been an ad in the Birmingham paper advertising over 100 cars-avantis, citroens, etc. I dragged my wife down and we wandered through a field filled with cars-maybe 10 were driveable-most were parts cars at best. I never saw the 330-just the maser mexico they had under a tarp. At that time they had visions of early 1990 money for the cars they had, and the mexico seemed beyond restoring. It was sad. Like the time I saw a 250 gt in the parking lot of the NY colliseum covered with dust and four flat tires-that was about 30 yrs ago. My Dad tried to buy it, but the garage owner knew what he had and was trying to get the car himself. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2257 Registered: 10-2002 |
Dr Eric I don't lose sleep over anything. Why would I care about FIA papers? I drive my cars on the street. As I never plan to sell them I really don't care what they're worth either. They've been to Pebble and they've been to the local cruise night. I've enjoyed both equally. I've enjoyed driving into the sunrise with my teenage daughter more. FIA papers are easy. There are pure replicas and "continuation" cars with FIA papers. The purpose of my posts are simply that if one wants a 330 America you can find one already restored or in original cared for condition that wasn't left to rot for much less than this plus restoration costs. No more, no less. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1401 Registered: 5-2002 |
DJmonk, I'm always lurking. Sounds to me like she is just auctioning the car and the bidders just don't happen to be standing next to each other while the auction is ongoing. Typical neglected car in the barn. The owner's don't think it's worth putting a sheet of 10 buck plastic over to protect it from the elements, yet they think it's worth $45,000 dollars. With this much publicity over a car that was never advertised for sale, she will be lucky that some ner-do-well doesn't show up in the middle of the night with a wrecker and haul it off! | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 5514 Registered: 8-2002 |
Whoa... Awesome...! Restoration dream or not, this is certainly a story who's (hopefully) soon-to-be disclosed details will prove very interesting... Granted, i'm not a big fan (or a small fan for that matter) of the 330 america - it just doesn't do it for me... But just looking at the photograph, there, underneath what appears to be an aluminum roof, is a piece of Ferrari history... In my eyes, it makes no difference what the car is worth, what the restoration costs amount to and so on; right there, sitting in the grass, is a piece of long-forgotten Ferrari history, suddenly and somewhat quietly uncovered... Doc, if possible, please continue to post about this, the buyer, the restoration, more photos, etc.... Maybe no one here wants this car, but there might be someone out there who's been looking for this car for ages... The best part is that just because collectors out there with big $ may want this car, there chances of getting this are equal to everyone else's; this is not in someone's private museum, it's practically in the jungle and, until recently, apparently, its whereabouts haven't been known or made public... i see rich flavor in this story's future. | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 135 Registered: 4-2003 |
James: It might not be an interesting car, but whoever buys it and spends the money on it, won't loose any sleep over getting FIA papers for it. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1838 Registered: 11-2002 |
I'm a 330 America fan and have actually inquired about them about a year ago (to Michael Sheehan who didn't have one at the time). That said, I agree with Jim 100%. I think that anyone who knows how much restorations cost will run from this one (or laugh at it). To get an engine like this properly sorted by the right people can easily cost upwards of 30k. Probably upwards of 40k if it has been sitting for 20-30 years. Then you got many other things like chassis, suspension, panels, brightwork, etc, etc. It just seems a bit unfair to sell the car only to someone who is willing to restore it and then ask high "parts car" prices for it. These cars do show up at auctions fully sorted for much much less than what the restoration cost of this car is going to be even if the car is given away. I don't have the insight into restorations the way Mr.G does, but this is a carbon copy (albeit different marque) of the purchase I've been struggling to make for the past three months. I've talked to all sorts of experts on what would need replacing and general figures. 30k is definitely an absurd figure. Then again, you'll probably get someone who will profess their love for the gorgeous 330 Americas. Next thing you know the parts will be for sale and someone will have a nice recreation 250TR. There are 330 America fans out there. But I would be willing to bet that these fans would not go through with this much of a cash investment when they can just purchase a 250 GTE and spec it to 330 standards with a lot less money. Keep in mind, the body is virtually identical. Also, as much as I love these I'd rather get a plexi Daytona any day and still save a good amount of cash. I also remember seeing a 330 America for sale about a year and a half ago. The car had a race spec engine on it and the owner had used it as a track car. He had the original drivetrain, transmission, etc. Sold the entire package along with a spare race engine, and parts for around 35k because the bodywork was a bit rough and someone would have to put in a good amount of money into throwing all the original stuff back in the car. This buyer too, did not want the car to be sold in pieces because he loved the car. Difference is, that he priced it accordingly. Keep in mind the components were all fully sorted and you get two engines and other stuff along with the original stuff. Cheers | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2256 Registered: 10-2002 |
Martin Why not buy a really nice one for less than it would cost to fix this one and start enjoying it right away? | ||
| djmonk (Davem)
Member Username: Davem Post Number: 368 Registered: 1-2002 |
Wheres Arlie!? | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5553 Registered: 5-2001 |
I think there is a market for everything. These cars are underapprechiated in the Ferrari community. Giving there are less than 20 left of these cars why not restore it and drive it. It has to keep some form of value. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2255 Registered: 10-2002 |
Dr. To put the $,time, and effort that it would take to restore this car, which BTW is not is not a very interesting car to begin with compared to a nice Daytona which you could own for the price of this plus restoration costs ain't gonna happen. If someone were to do it IMHO that would be sad. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 1102 Registered: 10-2001 |
With only 17 known (18 now?) beggers can't be choosers if they want THAT car. No one would pay me what my Europa is worth to me either but they have an option of looking elsewhere; 330 America fans don't have that luxury. | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 134 Registered: 4-2003 |
James: This is worth what ever someone will pay for it. Yes, it needs a lot of cash thown at it. Did you ever think that some of us play with these things because we actually enjoy it, rather than if we'll be ahead in the game at the end of the day. Its a better 10 year investment than Enron stock. So you're upside down in it. You still have a neat car you can drive at the end of the day. I think that it's going to make someone very happy, and that's all that's important. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5551 Registered: 5-2001 |
I would pay $ 3,000 for it! actually would pay $ 5,000 | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 630 Registered: 3-2002 |
Correct. You are talking about taking the entire car apart. Then restore every: screw, nut, bolt, panel, repaint, interior, and engine - by hand. What else did I leave out ? Yes the chrome. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5806 Registered: 12-2000 |
I think as Tom says, the car is worth $20k just for parts, but that's very sad if it's broken up like most other Ferraris like this. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2254 Registered: 10-2002 |
30K Lol. This car is not IMHO worth 3K. No one in sound mind would spend what it would take to restore this car. The restoration costs alone would be WAY more than you can buy a very nice example. Major restoration begins at 100k and has been known to top 1000K. | ||
| David P. Smith (Dave330gtc)
Junior Member Username: Dave330gtc Post Number: 146 Registered: 3-2002 |
When I said an easy $50,000-$100,000 restoration I meant it would be easy to spend that much money at least. Read Mike Sheehan's article on restoring the 250 SWB and you can see how quickly the money can add up. I still think it would be great to see the car restored but it is a project that you have to go into with your eyes and your wallet wide open from the beginning. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1837 Registered: 11-2002 |
$30k-35k? Wow that's an awful lot of money considering the restoration costs and the value of the vehicle. I think the restoration costs are going to easily top 75k. Just saw the other pictures from the other links on the thread. I think David's figure of 100k is probably closer to what it's going to be. I've been looking at a restorable 350GT Lamborghini in much better shape and the estimates for that could have easily topped the 75k mark. I would have loved to do a project like this, but I have a feeling that given the economics it really will fall into the hands of someone who will butcher it up and sell the parts.  Cheers | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 344 Registered: 8-2002 |
Does the car run? Rust? Why was it parked? Why leave it outside for the critters and elements? | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 132 Registered: 4-2003 |
Mike: I was worried that you were going to show up at the house with your tools and say that you were the teenager. I'm not planning on borrowing anyone's kids to take this one on. | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 131 Registered: 4-2003 |
The car is original and is restorable. Its financial suicide if you're in the group that just wants to do a quick service and a respray, but this one is very savable. It will make a great project for the right person. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 819 Registered: 8-2002 |
Hi Erik: *I* have a teenage child you could restore it with! :-) | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 130 Registered: 4-2003 |
Asking price? I'd say that Ms. Wilson is entertaining offers above $30k. The more detailed pictures that I took will be available through Mike Sheehan's website soon, but there are more in the vintage section. She told me that she did not place the ad asking $45k and is really upset with the car slugs that are trying to represent the car for her when she hasn't made a deal with any of them. I'd be happy to answer any questions about it. As for why I didn't buy it, if I had a teenage child that I could restore it with, I would have pulled it out yesterday. In this stage of my life, I just don't have the time to devote to a restoration to do it right. | ||
| David P. Smith (Dave330gtc)
Junior Member Username: Dave330gtc Post Number: 145 Registered: 3-2002 |
I hope that somebody does buy the car and restores it but it will be a labor of love. This will be an easy $50,000-$100,000 restoration. I am going through this now and I can guarantee that there will be all kinds of extras that will cost time and money. When you are doing a car like this that has been parked for a long time there is no place to cut corners. Whatever you left undone will come back to haunt you. You have to bite the bullet and do it all. I would definitely do it again. You know exactly what you have in the end product; no surprises. You just will have a hard time justifying it financially. You have to do it for the love of the older cars. | ||
| Marvin Balagot (Mdb69)
Junior Member Username: Mdb69 Post Number: 92 Registered: 4-2002 |
Wow, interesting car. Hope it finds a nice home. Anyone care to estimate how much it would take to restore to a 2? Probably quite a bit i'd think. | ||
| mike 308 (Concorde)
Member Username: Concorde Post Number: 260 Registered: 8-2002 |
OK, since Erik started this thread and she suggested we ask him, then Erik, what's the "correct information"? Meanwhile, here's what Debbie said in a direct email to a guy I know in Tennessee: "Hi! I offered the car for best offer, only to someone who would restore it themselves. I do not want this car parted out, or destroyed. I did not run any ads on it. Tom Yang ran the story on his websight and the response has been tremendous. So far I have had a top bid of 38,000 . A gentle man emailed me this morning and said he has restored 2 ferraris already and was willing to pay whatever I wanted for it. There ae only 17 left accounted for out of the original 50. You are more then welcomed to join the bidding as long as you intend to restore and are able to come to Alabama to inspect it. Thanks Deb" Whatever folks are willing to pay, I guess. Cost to restore it will be well beyond the dollar value of a restored car. It will have to be someone who just wants to do it for the love of the car or the marque, not because it makes money sense. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Moderator Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 2226 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mike, Ms Wilson contends that she did not place that ad and that she is not trying to sell the car for $45K. To set the record straight, here is her response as posted on TomYang.net: "Greetings, I just wanted to thank Tom for all the help he has given concerning my 330 America. Erik Nielsen , his fiance' Karen and I just spent the afternoon going over the car and I am really pleased with how well the day went. Erik took bunches of photos and all the serial numbers. We discussed prices and my reasons for wanting to sell my car. "In the last two weeks I have recieved over 70 emails and phone calls. Most of the folks I spoke with were very nice and sincere. Some of you people need to get a life though. Last night I read the message that said I offered the car in an online ad for $45,000. NOt me! I have found a thread which listed the car in three different trade sights though I am really not sure how they got there. I haven't run an ad on anything in over 6 months. Anyone who wants to get the correct information can contact Erik. He is a delightful man and very knowledgeable about Ferraris. Thanks for all the interest! Deb" | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 2205 Registered: 7-2001 |
Are the Maserati's and the Pantera for sale too? | ||
| mike 308 (Concorde)
Member Username: Concorde Post Number: 259 Registered: 8-2002 |
According to the info at www.parrotbyte.com/330GTRegistry/Detail%5CSN_4973.html it is a 1963 with 17,000 miles on it, and she wants $45,000. From Collector Car Collector Car Trader Online: "1963 FERRARI 330 America: One of 50 built, one of 17 remaining. Has been restored for 30 years. 17, 000 original miles. All original, paint, interior, tool kit, everything you need to have a legend. Must come and inspect personally. $45, 000. Call 256-329-1517 or email:[email protected] Serious inquiries only!!!(256) 329-1517." The ad was dated as placed 30 July '03. Her contact phone number is there if someone wants to follow up for more details. Of course, that price is outrageous in that condition. As a comparison, see this one on Mike Sheehan's site that has a running, rebuilt engine and presumably sold at or under the asking price of $32K: www.ferraris-online.com/cars/5015/5015a.html On Tom Yang's site message board, someone states that Sportscar Market Magazine 2003 price guide lists 330 Americas as being worth between $35,000 and $47,500 in strong #2 condition (which they describe as "very good to near excellent condition" and "significantly above a 'daily driver' and one step below regional concours") with "no stories attached". That's a far cry from the "barn find" that Erik looked at. There are several examples of "condition 1" or "condition 2" 330's selling in the $40k's. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 942 Registered: 12-2001 |
Oh wow! That would be a dream come true to restore. | ||
| Drew Altemara (Drewa)
Junior Member Username: Drewa Post Number: 172 Registered: 2-2002 |
Here's the link and additional pictures from Tom Yang's web site. Look under the Restoration Diary and Ferrari Message Board for a good discussion. http://www.tomyang.net/cars/ferrari.html | ||
| Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re308 Post Number: 1009 Registered: 6-2001 |
My God, that is a dream for me! I wonder how much the cars are?? Can I buy one?? | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Intermediate Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 1248 Registered: 5-2001 |
That's not far from where I live. | ||
| Michael C. James (Mjames)
Junior Member Username: Mjames Post Number: 60 Registered: 6-2003 |
According to Tom's site, this car has a factory-installed 250 GTO drivetrain...I'm very surprised that this car is still available. I figured someone with $$$ would have snapped this up by now. | ||
| Thomas I (Wax)
New member Username: Wax Post Number: 25 Registered: 7-2003 |
Yeah, I saw that on Tom's site a short while back too. She'll only sell to someone who will restore it, as it cannot be used for parts, or, as Dr. J wanted to do some years ago, convert it to a "more desirable" style. With that clarity of this car's real purpose in mind, not profit motive (she had huge offer$ during the boom), she declined them all. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1835 Registered: 11-2002 |
Wow Doc! What a find! I'd love to get my hands on that thing. A 330 America! My Lamborghini seller is real flaky. Maybe this is the better route to go! Are you aware of the particulars Doc? Originality, overall condition (no, not a joke), and all that? I'd hate to see this thing turn into yet another 250 TR replica . Especially since I'm pretty sure it looks like it would be more profitable as a parts car than a restoration. I know this isn't the most polite thing to do but...do you know how much its selling for? Feel free to ignore the last question if you'd like. Or email/pm me. Any other pics of the car? These are fabulous cars. It pains me to see it in the shape it's in. It needs a good home. Cheers | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Intermediate Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 1640 Registered: 12-2002 |
Now that is amazing! Of all places for a rare Ferrari to be. | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 128 Registered: 4-2003 |
Yes, its Deborah's car. | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 127 Registered: 4-2003 |
4973 is a 330 America, one of 50 made (its the red one, the white one is a Maserati 3500). 4973 is one of the "missing" 330 Americas. Tom Yang tipped me off about it after the current owner let him know that she wants to sell it. I've only known about it since last weekend. There was also a Pantera and a Maserati Mexico there. Same general condition for all cars. The vintage part of the Ferrari world (read: those of us that read Cavallino cover to cover) is going ape-$hit about it. I've posted some more pics of it in the vintage section. Expect to see more on Mike Sheehan's website soon. As for the location which I'd rather not totally divulge, lets just say its somewhere off of US 280 between Birmingham and Auburn. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 817 Registered: 8-2002 |
Is that "4973" the Ferrari 330 America that Deborah Wilson in Alexander City has? Did you already know it was there, or were you just running around at random? That's going to make somebody quite a restoration project... | ||
| Dr. Erik Nielsen (Judge4re)
Junior Member Username: Judge4re Post Number: 125 Registered: 4-2003 |
Its amazing what you can find in a barn in Alamaba. This is 4973 is as found condition. Karen and I went and looked at it this afternoon.  |