| Author | Message | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 779 Registered: 2-2003 |
Bert, I have a 76 XJ12 parts car with (and the rest of the car) 105K miles if needed for a project  5.3L V12 90 bore 70 stroke 240kW/420Nm at 5500rpm/3500rpm respectively. http://www.autospeed.com.au/cms/article.html?&A=0274&P=6 Sunny | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 891 Registered: 11-2002 |
Okay I have done a little investigation and the BMW 2 litre 6 cylinder engine is the way to go. The bore is 80mm, compared to 77mm for the 275 engine (which is what all but the first 250LM used). Plus also the cylinder heads are very similar otherwise. If anybody knows of a site of book that has pictures of a 250LM being restored or built or has chassis drawings, etc. I would be really interested. While I have to complete my Alfa restoration, I can still start the drawing and design process for a 250LM copy ... Pete | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 888 Registered: 11-2002 |
Steven, I think I'll go for sand casting. Maybe even able to make the full casting box at home ... with some guidance . Don't think I will try to actually do the casting process ... but that would be very interesting. BUT please do not hold your breath ... I have a few things to knock over first (and an Alfa restoration to finish ), but I will definitely post pictures if and when it happens. Pete | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 554 Registered: 6-2001 |
Wish you the best of luck. Will you post pictures along the way? What type of casting will you use? Lost wax (or other dissolvable material)technique? Sand casting? I know it's your project, but it's starting to get me excited too. How about machining from billet material with a CNC lathe? Would be a lot easier. You must be one multi-talented guy. Love to see the work in progress. I understand about duplicating the Colombo V-12. It was a terrific engine. Too bad you're in Australia. i would love to watch. Best of luck | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 886 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ben and Steven, First of all the reason for a straight 6 single overhead cam, etc. is so I can create a replica of the Columbo v12 ... that is all. Second joining to motors end to end is also very difficult for vibration reasons, etc. I do not want to create anything else but a replica of the Columbo v12, like in the 250LM. Yes I would need plenty of machinest talent ... no problems there . If you look at an Italian engines block from that period they were all (I think?) open cast with steel liners ... like the Alfa 4 cylinder. This was done to make the casting of the block extremely easy!! I have cast my own bellhousing before, and yes a block is alot more complicated, but still heaps easier than casting heads. Also I do not want to use a genuine Ferrari engine, as I have already debated my negative view on sourcing genuine Ferrari parts for a replica. Anyway, I think it would be an interesting project, over a few years!! I thought about creating a 250LM replica using an Alfa Romeo 3ltr v6 ... which would be a good engine to use with a Porsche box hanging off the back ... but then I thought why not go that extra bit further. Many people have created v engines from 2 inline engines. There is a guy that has made v8's, v12's etc. from motor bike engines ... although this is easier as bike motors use separate crankcases. Anyway I still have engineers blood pumping through my brain and would enjoy the challenge. Pete | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 702 Registered: 6-2002 |
Casting a new block? Hope you have DEEP pockets! (or a really good machinist, and a laaaarge aluminum billett, and lots of machinist talent.) It's a cool idea, but price it out before you start. Might be cheaper to buy a factory new Enzo motor. Best! Ben. | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 551 Registered: 6-2001 |
PSK- why a straight 6, and why a single overhead cam? Lots of torsional vibration in that long crankshaft, if you plan on racing it. The breathing ability of a single overhead cam wouldn't be that great either. Why not start your replica with a real Ferrari engine? You could start with 2 V-6 Dino engines either head to tail or in a W configuration. I'd bet that mounted head to tail they would not be much longer than a straight 6, and side by side in a W config they would both fit in the back of my Dino if i gave up the trunk. End up with a 4.8 liter V or W-12 making about 400 bhp bone stock. These engines are small, extremely durable and light. While i wouldn't cannibalize a Ferrari dino, the Fiat dinos are much cheaper, even if you had to buy the entire car. Check with Superformance in the UK, they may have some spare engines already rebuilt and ready to go. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 881 Registered: 11-2002 |
Just love this quote from http://homepages.tesco.net/~enrico/image/home11.htm
I think even I would be pissed ... after too many nights Pete | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 880 Registered: 11-2002 |
Bert,
You are right ofcourse. But I would cast a new block for a 60 degree v12. When you think of complicated a head casting is, then being able to use an existing head would save heaps of work. To do this properly one would also have to make a new crank ... but you could do what (some of) the aircraft engines used to do (still do?) and make conrods that share the big end bearing. This would mean that both V's would be inline, ie. no offset. The Nissan Skyline engine that Bravo mentioned sounds interesting ... thus you could make a good 330 P3/4 replica engine. I also think that Nissan may have made a single overhead cam 2 ltr 6 (thinking 330GTO replica), BUT the BMW cylinder head design of the 320, etc. is very similar to the Columbo Ferrari design, ie. single overhead cam, hemispherical combustion chambers, outside plugs (ie. on exhaust side). Paint the camcovers black and it would be fairly convincing. Plus both the BMW and Nissan 6's are good motors. Anyway, would be an interesting project for the engineer in me Now I am going to have a look at that site BobD mentioned Pete | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Moderator Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 2246 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jeff, that wasn't an inspection port, it was the "quick drain" oil port. | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 503 Registered: 12-2002 |
I used to have a Triumph Vitesse convertible that had a 6-cyl pushrod engine of 1596cc. It had an unusual crankshaft inspection port in the side of the block, with a connecting rod sticking through it. Had to install a 2-litre GT6 engine. | ||
| Andrew-Phillip Goalen (Andrewg)
Member Username: Andrewg Post Number: 289 Registered: 9-2002 |
Pete / Bobd got one but it's a little bit rare MG did a 1.4 Supercharged for I think the K2 cars of the thirties (maybe be cheaper to gut a 400 or 365 2+2!) | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Moderator Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 2242 Registered: 8-2002 |
BobD, awesome site! | ||
| Bert Kanters (Bert308)
Junior Member Username: Bert308 Post Number: 69 Registered: 11-2002 |
From such engines you could only use the heads, how about the block, cutting 2 6-inline blocks at 45 degrees and welding together??? Easier to use a 12 from a Jag or BMW, enough supply. Lot of work to make the BMW engine work in another car with all those embedded electronics, but of course you'll want 6 Webers for looks & sound! | ||
| Johnny Bravo (Johnny_bravo)
New member Username: Johnny_bravo Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2003 |
I could be mistaken, but I believe the RB20DET out of some of the lower spec Nissan Skylines is a 2.0L I-6. DOHC with a single turbo hanging off of it. | ||
| Gary Reed (Gary_reed)
Junior Member Username: Gary_reed Post Number: 150 Registered: 2-2002 |
Wow! Some very cool vintage engines on that site. I really like the 1929 dual supercharged V16!!! AMAZING for that era.  | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 1443 Registered: 3-2001 |
PSK, I found it (but I doubt you'll be able to...). Maserati TIPO 6CM Years of production: 1936-1939 Straight 6-cyl 1493.2 cc engine DOHC with two valves per cylinder Bore 65mm and stroke 75mm Compression ratio 6.0:1 Power output 155/175bhp at 6200/6600 rpm Induction system by Roots supercharger No 1 Weber 55ASI (55CDO/45DCO). http://homepages.tesco.net/~enrico/image/home11.htm (scan down) Oops, but this is a DOHC. | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 1442 Registered: 3-2001 |
Andrew, I owned a couple of TR6's for a total of 12 years (unfortunately - or maybe fortunately - we didn't get the PI engines in the States like you had in the UK)... the TR6 had a 2.5 straight 6. You're right, the GT6 had a 2.0 straight 6. Fun cars. I also owned a 240Z which was a really great car. Djparks, you're also right, bullet proof engines and a great design. I'd love to have an early Z now. 1.5 ltr straight 6.... hmmmm. Sure seems like it would have to be British but nothing comes to mind. | ||
| Oldslow308 (Djparks)
Member Username: Djparks Post Number: 474 Registered: 2-2003 |
Pete, could you elaborate on the configuration of the two engines,rod design, layout of the crank etc.......... My brother is a machinist and would have a field day working something like this up. A 4.8 or a 5.6 liter V12 would be a gas! DJ | ||
| Oldslow308 (Djparks)
Member Username: Djparks Post Number: 473 Registered: 2-2003 |
Better yet, try two 2.4 liter Datsun 6's out of the 240Z, or for that matter a 2.8 liter out of the 280. A little heavy though with the iron block. These engines are bullet proof, 7 main bearing saddles, chain drive cam, 7500 redline. Nearly indestructable. The engines are easily modified, Some with factory turbochargers, large aftermarket supply, large NOS supply, relatively inexpensive parts and a huge racing community. The engine itself is a good looking engine from an estetics (sp) point of view. Nice looking castings. High nickel content in the blocks too. So what if it is Japanese. Looking at the one in my 240 you can't tell. There are no distinguishing marks that point that out. It would be a fun project! DJ | ||
| Andrew-Phillip Goalen (Andrewg)
Member Username: Andrewg Post Number: 287 Registered: 9-2002 |
Pete have a look into triumphs, I know the GT6 engine was around 2 BMW's 320 and 520i of around 1984 had a 2 litre another Idea would be to siamesse(sp) two mazda 1.8 V6's (as fitted to the MX3) surely it would be easier to do a rep based on a mondial, monza or 121, IE based around a 4 or six? | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 879 Registered: 11-2002 |
Anyone know of a 1.5 ltr straight 6 single overhead cam engine with 2 valves per cylinder. I know that Morris made a thing that looked like a enlarged Maxi that was a straight 6 of around 1.8 ltr (plus it was single overheader cam also). I thought BMW might have an engine like this. I think they have a 2 ltr straight 6??? Anyway, getting hold of a couple of these would be a great start for a 3 ltr v12 for a Ferrari replica. Fair bit of work but better than canabilising a real Ferrari for an engine ... plus it would be an interesting challenge. Cam drive to the head that you have to turn around would be interesting ... Pete |