| Author |
Message |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 5936
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 9:17 pm: | |
Everyone, I'm sorry, this has gone on long enough. I'm feeling really bad right now for Matt, FerrariChat.com, and I just feel plain ill. This is really not what I wanted to happen. I'm going to close the thread. You can start another one if you want, but I recommend just dropping it. Don't worry, Matt has been reading all these messages, so he's seen your words of support. In the end no personal harm was done to me, so I'm not mad, just a little disappointed. I hope Matt forgives me someday and we can get together. Maybe next week when he's in town? If I go missing, well... just joking.
I will let everyone know if things take a turn for the better. No more negativity is needed though. |
David R. (Rodsky)
Junior Member
Username: Rodsky
Post Number: 183
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 9:10 pm: | |
I think if you live by the sword you die by the sword. No one should pass judgement on Matt - yet. However, since Matt was vigilant in exposing others and demanding they "prove" their innocence, then he should play by his own rules and prove his innocence. If he doesn't then a lot of people will have lost respect for him. If he chooses to feel hurt, slighted etc. and he runs and hides - then he only has himself to blame.
I would expect a lot of people on any board would fabricate certain "facts" from time to time - to feel like they belong. People on this board may feel the need to say they own an F-car or have money or status to feel accepted. But you really don't have to here. That's why I really like this site. I dont own one - will buy one soon - but feel welcome and have learnt a great deal. If people choose to bend the truth, that's not a major crime. However, when the board police (read Matt) choses to expose them and chases them off - then he should live up to his own standards. I dont care if he has 20 posts or 6000 posts. I dont care if he has been really helpful in the past etc. Now if he didn't own the cars - no biggie. Just dont get excited and act holier than thou when the next Tony (whatever his name) was shows up.
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Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 5935
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 9:09 pm: | |
By drawing attention and referring to the FDC so much in the beginning of this was just an attempt to put a quick end to it. More so than maybe now I was trying to believe it was just a huge misunderstanding. I figured the quickest way to get it resolved was to have the FDC provide information vouching for the cars. I knew the FDC users knew Matt better than anyone else on here and many had been to his house. Well, all of those from the FDC have vouched that Matt is a great guy on this thread and to me in private. No one has been able to confirm the cars though except hearing about them. |
Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member
Username: Bmyth
Post Number: 1117
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 9:06 pm: | |
Sunny,
go for it. The key is on my dresser.
B. |
Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member
Username: Jaguarxj6
Post Number: 776
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 9:05 pm: | |
I'm so frustrated from this whole f'ing thing right now, I'm going down to Irvine to take Byron's car for a spin and vent.
Sunny
P.S. Byron, thats just a joke/reminder I still have your garage clicker, lol.. |
Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member
Username: Bmyth
Post Number: 1116
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 8:59 pm: | |
>> I feel like the entire FDC is attacking me for just posting what is known. <<
Rob, I just wanted to address this comment. I don't think this is really the case - at least I hope it isn't. Actually, this really doesn't have much to do with FDC at all, so the fact that you are asking FDC to vouch for Matt is not entirely the right approach, in my opinion.
I have posted some of my personal comments in the So Cal thread, as have many others. In this case, as in life, I prefer to give anyone I consider a friend the benefit of the doubt first, then if proven otherwise, make a judgment then. I don't think you have done a huge injustice here, since you've clearly stated your intentions and personal involvement.
It's unfortunate that this thread has gone on for so long now... if it's a moral question we're trying to answer here, perhaps we should just start a new thread asking "what is the meaning of life" or "is it ok to lie" or "is it ok to accuse someone of lying" or...???
It will never end. There are victims in this whole discussion, most of which are ourselves, as we continue to spend countless number of minutes and posts... You're right, Matt is a great guy. Beers will be had ... maybe he'll come back, maybe he won't. Let's just give him the benefit of the doubt and move on. I understand the circumstancial evidence that has been presented, and I am in no position to set anyone straight, as that is not my place to do so, but what happens if we find out what we want to find out? and what is that which we search for?
Dave hit it on the head... This thread sounds more like a lynch mob than a bunch of sophisticated owners of fine automobiles. I'm still taken aback by all the bantering back and forth...
Yes, Matt has said done his share of policing... and yes, sometimes a bit harsh. And while I may not have agreed with all of that... it was all in good fun. This is just not funny. And no, I have not forgotten about all of the 'open challenges' etc that have been brought up countless times. Why is this world so wound up on an "eye for an eye" ?
I am simply troubled by all of this...
|
DJ (Godfather)
Junior Member
Username: Godfather
Post Number: 137
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 8:52 pm: | |
Someone please kill this thread. |
David B. Norris (Norris)
New member
Username: Norris
Post Number: 6
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 8:45 pm: | |
Matt quit F-Chat once and for all according to his post in the So-Cal section/thread. The very clear impression from this 'surrender' is that he was caught, red handed, and is understandably embarassed, thus his resigination. Many of his posts were both sharp and demanding; the inquiries here to Matt are no different. Goodbye Matt. Let us move on. |
joe under (Undertaker)
New member
Username: Undertaker
Post Number: 24
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 8:19 pm: | |
JRV,
I understand no one is perfect, not me, not you, not anyone.
And I respect whatever side of the coin you are on. I'm not here to argue about which side people are on, only to bring up, that if you step back and look, there's a MUCH bigger picture and history that can be viewed to cast overall judgement, for each individual to each his own that is.
I think it's all about each individual having certain lines drawn of that which is acceptable, and that which is not.
Are you forgetting the time he posted your drivers license number on here ?
Now you see, to me, that would be a sign, a big red one. But as I said, to each his own. |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 5932
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 8:12 pm: | |
Just want to point out that Joe Under has been a member since 1/2003. Matt wasn't a member for too many more months than that.
JRV, hmm, please explain details of when you were attacked? Oh, you mean by Matt?
I really am just trying to do what's right for the overall community and not take sides. However, it may not seem that way as I've been on the phone and exchanging emails all week with those providing information or actually the lack of information. I have to represent all of those that don't want to go public. That's fine, but I'm not the bad guy here. I feel like the entire FDC is attacking me for just posting what is known.
I'm beginning to think we'll never see the pictures and this will just fizzle out. I hope Matt returns to the site, hell, I'm an expert at reinstalling his account as he's left 3-4 times already.
|
Dave (Dave)
Member
Username: Dave
Post Number: 573
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 8:12 pm: | |
He's a witch.... Burn him!
Burn them all, there all witches! |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 719
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 7:59 pm: | |
Wow, I just spent 40 minutes reading all of this nonsense!
So The Don, who crucified Tony Roberts and basically ran him off from this site because he lied about owning a Ferrari turns out to have lied about owning 2 Ferraris.
Some dont care because Matt is an otherwise good guy and he posts alot.
Others see this as big time unfair...... or a type of Ferrarihypocrisy or something.
Hmmmmmmm Nutty. Too bad for Matt he got caught. My biggest question is to motive? Why would someone do this? What is there to gain? If he is not guilty why would he not post photos marked with "No copy" so nobody can use them? |
Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member
Username: Newman
Post Number: 1244
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 7:04 pm: | |
There was a time when Mat and I spoke by phone or email regularly. I expressed interest in his BBi because ultimately I would like one or perhaps a TR. He was willing to sell it to me and we even agreed on a price. I requested pictures of the car and at his request gave him my address info so he could burn a CD and mail it to me. Emailing one or two pics would have been nice but I recieved nothing. I asked several times for pics over a period of months in some form but it never happened and there was no explanation. The next time we spoke, he had sold the car to someone else without forewarning. Oh well, I didnt question whether he owned the car but now i wonder. |
Ryan Sabga (Sherpa23)
Junior Member
Username: Sherpa23
Post Number: 82
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 6:47 pm: | |
Jordan, there are many of us here who have not made up our minds on the situation because, of course, there isn't much evidence either way. Don't misjudge that fact.
To say that Matt will be condemned in all of our minds is incorrect. If I were friends with Matt, I wouldn't give a •••• either. The guy is who he is. That's not the point. The point is that there is a possibility that a prominent member of Fchat has lied. No, nobody's perfect, and again, that's not the point, but if he deliberately misled any of us here at Fchat, then what does that say about our community? That we have made a place where people have to lie to fit in? A place where people feel the need to keep pace with others by what they have? I don't know, but it's something to ponder.
Again, I would not be surprised if Matt has these cars or, more likely, had some kind of possession of them at some point. However, I would like to know one way or the other because Fchat will not be as good of a place if deceit somehow became the norm to "fit in." |
JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 2191
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 6:41 pm: | |
>>People have short memories. Let us not forget, <<
Uhhhhh....23 posts from you and WE have a short memory?????
I was victimized with the most INCREDIDLE Liable and Slander from Several members here...LIES so bad to defy belief....where were all you MORALISTS then???????????????????????????????
Where was all "the Integrety" Then??????????????
Where was the outcry for Honesty then ??????????
The flamers in this thread are the real Hypocrits !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is one of the saddest displays of personal agendas and hypocrosy I've ever witnessed.
This is sad, very sad.
And yes I'm another one that could care less about seeing photos. If one expects "friends" that are perfect or never make mistakes, they are sadly deluded about how life plays out. No one is perfect, no one...and every one of you throwing stones and pointing fingers better get off your high horses before it throws you off!!!!!
Unbeleivable !!!
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G. Green (Mr_green)
New member
Username: Mr_green
Post Number: 24
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 6:30 pm: | |
Joe,
Thank you for telling it like it is. I am sick of people making up excuses. Thank you again for not being one of the sheep. |
Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jordan747_400
Post Number: 1703
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 6:07 pm: | |
Joe, I may have a short memory, but I also remember the positive aspects of a person. Now that you are policing this site, do you really think it is a good idea to stir up irrelevant facts about a persons personality that serve NO use in determining the truth to this whole deal...other than of course, as propoganda to persuade people to trust you in a point THAT IS NOT YET PROVEN!
With only a few posts to your name its not the best idea to come on here and continually blast a usually respected member of this board as if it, indeed, was proven he did lie...which might I add, HASNT HAPPENED YET!
Some members here are all too quick to make certain assumptions...There is more to this situation than we might think, which makes it inaccurate to form a conclusion yet. Both sides haven't fully explained their stories and accounts for what happened...and one side probably never will...so just wait before you draw your own conclusions.
If Matt lied, mark me wrong...but frankly I dont give a flying ••••. People make mistakes, deal with it. The thing that I care about is at least giving people the benefit of the doubt in situations like this --not being so prematurely judgemental. Doesn't your charachter strike that as wrong? Now don't reply saying "well lying isnt good charachter either"...Because it hasn't been proved that he or anyone else here did lie yet.
Is it me, or is there an unusual amount of new members posting in this post and other posts that deal with this topic? Might I add that they also have nothing but negative things to add...
Ok, now frankly Im pissed off at some members here now, and I am finally done with this thread. Its too small of a situation to give me this much stress...Blast me all you guys want, Im sorry for still giving people the benefit of hte doubt out of the small possibility they aren't deceiving us...Sorry for my endless rambling --that probably doesnt even make sense, but I am trying to defend my own viewpoints. I dont care if he lied or not, Matt is still my friend hopefully...Its not like any of you have asqueeky clean honesty record either. People make mistakes (not referring to Matt here...since none of us know for sure), forgive, forget, or •••• off.
|
joe under (Undertaker)
New member
Username: Undertaker
Post Number: 23
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 5:25 pm: | |
People have short memories. Let us not forget,
this individual was involved in a multitude of flame wars, name calling, accusations, harassing people with assclown crap., wishing Frank Parker his car would blow up, mood swings, researching people's background, policing a site that isn't his to police, picture cut and pasting of people, telling people where to post and what to post and what not to post, and on and on and on. He acted like he owned the site. Well Rob, does he, or do you ?
You guys with short memories amaze me.
The fact that he lied about 2 cars is not the tip of the iceberg, but the bottom.
|
wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member
Username: Whart
Post Number: 1580
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 5:21 pm: | |
I don't know Matt but i have been on this board long enough to recognize that he was important in its incipiency. I'm sure Rob's issues go more to the bond of trust he believes he had with Matt than to overall questions about the integrity of the posters here, although i recognize that's an issue, too.
I find it strange that anybody would lie about things like whether or not they own or owned a particular car, since owning one is not a condition of participation and some of the most valuable contributors don't even own a Ferrari.
I personally couldn't care less whether Matt owns any car. I do understand how some people here feel burned, and i also see how Matt's stance with people like "Tony" makes this new revelation about Matt seem particularly ironic.
But, i don't feel burned, and i am not in the mood to bust balls. Even "Tony" lameassed poster that he was, was offered the chance to come clean and make amends. The least we can do is extend the same courtesy to Matt. I am not asking that any of you who feel personally betrayed by Matt swallow it, but as a regular contributor here, i think its the least we can do, as far as the board itself is concerned(as opposed to the personal feelings of its founder and certain members, which i in no way mean to diminish by this posting). |
Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member
Username: Timn88
Post Number: 3339
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 5:01 pm: | |
Matt was one hell of a hypocrite!
Anyone remember when he called jonas a liar in the "Modena" thread? |
Dave (Maranelloman)
Advanced Member
Username: Maranelloman
Post Number: 2554
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 4:51 pm: | |
This whole thing SUCKS.
Matt's gone, eh?
Wow.
Goose/gander?
Pot/kettle?
What am I missing?? |
Ron (Easy_rider)
Member
Username: Easy_rider
Post Number: 670
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 4:40 pm: | |
OK, it's time for me to chime in as a fellow FDC (at least I think I am one).
The results of this issue do not matter to me. I could not care less if Matt has or had any particular car. I have given him my friendship (and hopefully received his in return) not based on F car ownership but on his generosity, enthusiasm, willingness to help others, his good humor and personality and his participation and organizing many of our outings.
As such I look forward to seeing him on Sunday for our drive with Roland's F40 and this controversy will not enter my mind. Also, if he moves to Dallas or anywhere else I will miss him and look forward to seeing him at future gatherings or events. |
Tom RM (Tgitom)
Junior Member
Username: Tgitom
Post Number: 155
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 4:39 pm: | |
He ran off the board like he tried to chase others off the board. If he is not lying why would he do that, whats the problem? Just tell the truth and be done with it. If he didnt cause all that commotion with accusing the others and scoping out who they were where there from crap, then maybe this wouldnt be such a big deal! And also in my opinion this is one of the best sites to actually have owners of exotics and ferrari's most of all on here! The main reason being an enthusiast i come here to read and learn! Cause this is the most concentrated board with real owners! |
Faisal Khan (Tvrfreak)
Member
Username: Tvrfreak
Post Number: 803
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 3:36 pm: | |
Jonas,
anyone can post any picture and any VIN number on the Ferrari site. Just because you saw some pictures on a website means absolutely nothing. Ferrari does verify that it is a legitimate VIN number, but that is a simple matter of checking the check digit and looking up their own records. You can do the same by going to the NHTSA website and doing some research on the older numbering schemes. A ton of these VINs are floating about on the internet.
Most of the time Ferrari can verify from their dealers who the first purchaser is or was. But it is not always possible for Ferrari to verify ownership. Of course, if two people try to register the same car, it could lead to some interesting email exchanges. Most owners and collectors do buy in their own name, but not always. And most owners and collectors do register in their own name, but not always. I would bet that most of the registrations are legit, but not all.
Not saying that the Don is a liar. And personally, I don't care. I can see both sides of the argument. It is horribly intrusive and nosey to ask someone to prove that they own something. It is also stupid to make representations that are not true. He was a good contributor online and apparently also in person. Too bad if he was hypocritical and stretched the truth and got caught.
But the "evidence" you cite is not evidence. |
Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member
Username: Allyn
Post Number: 1116
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 3:31 pm: | |
The BB. I saw a ton of pictures somewhere (EBay?)of it before it was sold; it had a long and involved story. Someone was going to restore it and he died, so his wife sold it as an uncompleted project; something like that. When it was sold, I remember Matt was the guy who said he bought it. He sure had a ton of intimate details on the car so it seems he actually saw it and was working on it. I was even following his accounts of the restoration as I was in mid restoration of my Europa at the time and I felt a kinship there. |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 5931
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 3:20 pm: | |
See Ken, that's the type of info that would make sense and I could accept 100%. He was associated with a BB one way or another, because he wouldn't of had so many questions.
To the FDC gang, maybe you're directing your messages towards others, but nothing changes that Matt is a great guy. Even after we talked on the phone a couple days ago we planned on some beers when he's in town next week. |
Vince (Manatee)
Member
Username: Manatee
Post Number: 328
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 3:15 pm: | |
Jonas, have you tried retrieving the pics from your saved cache files ? |
L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Moderator
Username: Lwausbrooks
Post Number: 2289
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 3:11 pm: | |
Ken, are you referring to the BBi or the PF? |
Ken (Allyn)
Intermediate Member
Username: Allyn
Post Number: 1115
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 3:01 pm: | |
I know the car Matt claimed he bought. My feeling is he didn't buy it but a friend or neighbor did. He did extensive work on it hence the vast technical questions. The mistake was claiming he owned it. If this indeed is the case, I'm not personally upset by it; really don't care one way or the other. |
Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jordan747_400
Post Number: 1701
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 2:58 pm: | |
Ah, again, very well said Sunny  |
Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member
Username: Jaguarxj6
Post Number: 772
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 2:57 pm: | |
Joe, you might as well make that two people. I could really care less if his 308 wasn't even his at all.
Oh, and regarding OJ, he doesn't act like a man who's innocent. I've heard plenty of stories when my old man golf'ed with him and the guilt over what happened and the I got away with it attitude was enough for him to find other courses to play and avoid him.
But we all have our opinions.
Sunny |
Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member
Username: Jaguarxj6
Post Number: 771
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 2:53 pm: | |
Matt is my friend and if he lied about having either of those, I would be disappointed, sleep on it, and wake up not remembering it. Maybe not right away, maybe a week later, or whatever.
It was because of Matt especially, along with Byron, JL, Ron, Eldon, Bob, Gene, Martin, Tom D, Dan, Marty, Mike, Craig, James, Dom, Steve (house of blues Steve) and others that introduced me into the world of Ferrari ownership more than I could have hoped for and now I want one.
But I came away with something better than that.. friends I hope to keep a very long time regardless of whats parked in the garage, what fish stories are told, good times and bad. And I hope they feel the same way about me.
I will give anyone the benefit of the doubt and can forgive a mistake. I understand that some of you don't have that luxury. He exists to most of you only as a name and IP address with a personality.
If your out there reading this man, **** 'em, lets do lunch or go driving when you get back.
Sunny |
Jonas Petersen (Karsten335)
Member
Username: Karsten335
Post Number: 529
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 2:48 pm: | |
I asked him if I could see the owners site with a login, and as the helpful guy he is, he lended my the pass. And I told him to change it again, so I can't login anymore  But I've seen them. |
Vince (Manatee)
Member
Username: Manatee
Post Number: 327
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 2:44 pm: | |
Jonas, how about posting the pics of the 250 and BB ? If you can't right click on the image to download them to your HD, you can always copy the image to your clipboard then paste it into a jpg by using MS Paint or paste to a doc file using MS Word.
btw - how did you log in to his account? Did you know his password ?
Thanks |
Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jordan747_400
Post Number: 1700
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 2:39 pm: | |
Sounds like interesting evidence to me Jonas...
Joe, as an FDC member as well, I stated my honest opinion. I have nothing to loose by it! Assuming every FDC member is biased in their response and trust in Matt for personal liability is pretty...well...rediculous.
What makes you all so sure Matt is guilty anyway? I dont see any evidence that wasn't created by users on this board out of the reluctance of Matt to cooperate and provide an explanation. So in short, there is no proof YET. Stop assuming.
BTW, nothing personal, we all have our own opinions...just happens to be mine is right |
Jonas Petersen (Karsten335)
Member
Username: Karsten335
Post Number: 528
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 2:38 pm: | |
Yes Jim. When you click on your car, there are six slots (or 8, can't remember) where you can upload pictures. The boxes are yellow with a black prancing horse inside. |
Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jimpo1
Post Number: 2279
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 2:32 pm: | |
Can you post pics of your car at the owners site? I've been in there lots of times and have never seen that functionality. |
Jonas Petersen (Karsten335)
Member
Username: Karsten335
Post Number: 527
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 2:28 pm: | |
I still believe he owns them. I've been logge ind to his user account at www.owners.ferrari.com and seen pictures of the 250. (Not the BB) and seen the S/N. I do not have the pictures at my HD, so I can not post them.
I do not doubt Matt at all, since I've seen the pics in his account. And as far as I know, you can't register a car at their site if you don't own it. (They check the VIN) |
joe under (Undertaker)
New member
Username: Undertaker
Post Number: 22
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 2:26 pm: | |
Rob,
I hold my requirements exactly as you do. You're not alone.
I think we've all been fooled.
The jury is out and it's obvious, that is, if you're man enough to admit it.
If you're an FDC guy, ask yourself this simple question = are you being biased and partial because you have an interest at stake ? Like your credibility as well for example ? No one is forcing you to feel that way.
If so, love is blind and O.J. is innocent. I myself, am not a fool.
So far only Gene Agetep (from FDC) has had the strength to formulate an honest opinion, not to us mind you, but to himself, which is most important.
|
Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 5666
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 2:12 pm: | |
Rob you do not have to explain yourself!
I have seen nothing but circumstantial evidence as of yet.
we will see, all I have to say!
Reminds me of the OJ saga. If he does not fit in the 250 you must aquit!
BTW by evidence I still believe OJ was innocent! |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 5930
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 1:58 pm: | |
Gene, I really think I could take his contributions with a grain of salt. He just lied about two cars at worst, nothing else I know about. There has to be a BB somewhere in the "picture" or he wouldn't have all the detailed questions he did. I don't know if finance or partner related, but he was associated with a BB one way or another. |
Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member
Username: Bws88tr
Post Number: 2644
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 1:57 pm: | |
WAYNE
CALL ME 888 882 6965 |
L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Moderator
Username: Lwausbrooks
Post Number: 2288
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 1:57 pm: | |
Rob, I wasn't questioning whether or not it made sense. I was questioning the integrity of such a practice, even assuming it was true. |
Gene Agatep (Gagatep)
Member
Username: Gagatep
Post Number: 347
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 1:55 pm: | |
What Matt contributes to this board is his words.
Based on the facts Rob just provided, if
Matt ever decides to post here again - then it will be questioned. He cannot be considered a
"valuable" contributor to this community. |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 5928
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 1:53 pm: | |
Wayne, I think that one actually makes half way sense. After their big fight, they became friends and JRV helped him quite a bit over the phone and email on the BBi. JRV saved him tens of thousands of dollars after another mech misdiagnosed something that JRV caught even from a distance. Matt was just helping JRV out. |
L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Moderator
Username: Lwausbrooks
Post Number: 2287
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 1:50 pm: | |
quote:Matt claimed to several that JRV worked on the BB, JRV never worked on the car and now Matt's explanation is he was trying to generate business for JRV.
? |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 5927
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 1:45 pm: | |
OK, here's just my current position. Read it or not, it's just my personal stance...
Pro...
1) He said he owned the BBi and 250 PF. I trusted Matt.
2) Many detailed questions have been asked about the BB on this forum and to others in private.
3) Matt has promised the pictures to me. They're not for the board, just me personally.
Against...
1) No one has come forward to say they've actually seen the cars.
2) Matt claimed to several that JRV worked on the BB, JRV never worked on the car and now Matt's explanation is he was trying to generate business for JRV.
3) The BB was claimed to of been sold to the FOC Prez or something. That person says they didn't buy the car.
4) The serial number of the BB has been in Europe its entire life to the best of anyone's records.
5) The 250 PF is a rare one off that no one has seen in decades. However, some evidence the car is in Europe right now, although good chance that may prove false.
6) 250 PF was claimed to be at a couple recent Cali shows, to the best of our information this was not true.
7) 250 PF was claimed to be in a Cali Ferrari club newsletter, to the best of our information this was not true.
8) All appointments to photograph the 250 PF were canceled last minute or without notice.
9) Pictures and descriptions of the BB by Matt don't match up.
10) No full car pictures or pictures of Matt with the car have been seen.
11) Matt (a computer geek like me) sends me 7 attachments with names like "me and the BB", "250 PF serial plate", and etc., but they were all IFO format because "video is harder to doctor", but they all had zero data in them. The "(90 B)" was manually put in the file name. He said I probably couldn't read it because he had a Dell DVD. Well, Matt forgot that we both have the exact same computer... Dell Inspiron 8200 with DVD. After responding back right away the files didn't have data, Matt never tried to send them again, yet we exchanged another 10 emails that night and even talked on the phone.
12) Several days after all of this started I still haven't received any photos.
Really, it's to the point I don't care too much anymore. I've talked to Matt on the phone and he really doesn't care either. He just wants to send me the pictures for my personal state of trust. It's all simple at this point, either...
1) Matt decides he doesn't want to prove anything to me or proof he does provide doesn't win me over. That's fine, I hope Matt continues as a valuable user of this board.
2) Matt does convince me (as I expect he will) and we move on as we were. I can then understand how Matt would be disappointed in me that I didn't trust him from the start. However, with the information I have above, who in the heck can blame me? Even Matt said that on the phone. |
L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Moderator
Username: Lwausbrooks
Post Number: 2286
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 1:37 pm: | |
Il Commendatore:
He doesn't claim to currently own the 512BBi. He says he sold it. This is his description of the car when he bought it:
"He got the car after a former customer left it at his shop for sometime and the died. Readers digest version. Customer buys car. Drives car 20,000 miles. Lets sit for 10 years.... outside. Heat, kids, dogs, birds, cats and parts thiefs help themselves. Takes car to shop for a restoration. Guy rebuilts engine, trans, suspension, electrical. During that time, guy dies. Estate leaves car to cover cost of the repairs to date....$10,000. Guy wants car out of the shop. sell me the car for $10,000. Great deal...I think. Don't quote me on this in a year. Car drives, and sounds, like a dream for as long as I can say on the box."
He later states the s/n as 40141. This car was purchased here in the US by a Swiss gentleman in 1988 and shipped back to Europe at that time. Could it have come back in time to be driven 20,000 miles, put away for 10 years, and then have the eng/tranny completely rebuilt in time for Matt to have bought the car last year? Who knows? I think Jeff M. is right. The pictures and the excuses for them tell the story here.
In addition, he states that he later sold the car and has even told some of us offline to whom it was supposedly sold. A quick telephone conversation confirms that the gentleman in question has never owned a BB and doesn't recall ever meeting or speaking to Matt.
As for the PF coupe, he claims it is sold and will be gone by this weekend anyway.
There will be no photos. There will be no closure. At this point, he has decided to leave F-chat for good (again), so it no longer matters to us. Rob has a personal "need to know" as did I when this whole thing first began. |
Ryan Sabga (Sherpa23)
Junior Member
Username: Sherpa23
Post Number: 81
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 1:35 pm: | |
Rob,
I suppose that the crux of the situation, IMHO, is that FerrariChat should be held to a higher standard than typical internet message boards. We should all be accountable for our actions. After all, without that basic level of truth through accountability, there is little to stop anyone here from saying whatever they want, to the detriment of others and the board. There are many message boards that allow individuals to not only fabricate stories about themselves but slander other individuals and companies. And that would be terrible if Fchat degraded itself to such a level.
None of us would like it if someone came on here and told lies but in some cases, the effects could be damaging. What if someone who didn't even own a Ferrari came on here and said that their new 360 had some bad hoses and they caused a leak that caused the car to catch fire and that this is a serious problem with all 360's and that we should all go to our independent mechanics to have the cars checked out. While many of us would be simply curious, I suspect that some people might schedule and appointment to do just that, thus paying for something they didn't need.
To take it a step further, what if someone bought a car from Martin, promptly drove it over a curb, damaging the underside and then got on here and said that Martin sold him a damaged car and totally slandered Martin.
The point is, we all know how quickly these things can get out of hand when left unchecked so vigilance is the key and it's looks to me, Rob, that that's what you're doing. Besides, one of the best parts about F-chat is that we all can get together from time to time for events and meet each other face to face.
Ultimately, I suppose that the higher standard that we should hold Fchat to is that this isn't a web message board for whomever to use however they choose but really an efficient method of communication for Ferraristi scattered around the country. As such, this is just a communication hub for real actual people, and not a site to facilitate the telling of bogus stories. I'm not saying that anyone involved in the said dispute is making things up but I can see why it's important to make sure that everyone is telling the truth. |
Gene Agatep (Gagatep)
Member
Username: Gagatep
Post Number: 346
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 1:33 pm: | |
Trust to me is something that I give openly when meeting anyone. The level of trust is disrupted when an event like this happens.
My trust and belief in Matt was increasingly growing with the help that he has provided to Byron for his car breakdowns and the help that he personally provided to me whenever I requested
for his assistance in helping me gather more cars to attend track days. I also admire him for the role that he has taken in coordinating events for
the SoCal community.
This "allegedly" huge lie questions Matt's character. Until it is fully resolved, Matt's character will be in doubt to all of us. How can you fully trust him again until you really know the truth?
This is a chatroom where our words are what provide others the basis of our character.
To me - if Matt has lied about the BB & the 250 - I will forgive him for the lies but I will have a huge reservation about his character.
If Matt truly had owned the BB and has the 250, then Matt please forgive me for doubting you. |
jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member
Username: Atheyg
Post Number: 365
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 1:16 pm: | |
Maybe its a situation where Matt is only a partial owner to these cars, he has posted detailed questions on the tech area for the BB, I don't see why you would do that or waste your time on a phantom car. |
Jeff (Jeff_m)
Junior Member
Username: Jeff_m
Post Number: 208
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 1:15 pm: | |
Some of you guys sound like the democrats whining about Weapons of MD. Didn't you see the pics of two different color Boxers, then the empty files, then the missed deadline for the personal pics to Rob. Face the facts guys,we have been duped.Unless he is out buying two new cars, the pics aint coming! |
Il Commenadatore (Ilcommenadatore)
New member
Username: Ilcommenadatore
Post Number: 8
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 1:13 pm: | |
Someone please answer this question:
Does Matt actually own a BB512 and a 250PF? |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 5926
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 1:10 pm: | |
Looks like everyone has different requirements than I do. That's fine, I understand, you don't have a personal or business interest in the matter. I'll keep my requirements private and everyone can make their own decisions.
At worst I still hope Matt continues as a valuable user of FerrariChat.com. |
Jean-Louis (Jlm348)
Member
Username: Jlm348
Post Number: 639
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 1:00 pm: | |
To FerrariChat Community.
Matt has always been there for many of us. His dedication, insight and willing to help all of us in a time of need has always been above and beyond.
I have not wanted to chime in because of the way that the board is behaving about this matter.
He has not yet been Proven Guilty.
If I was in his same shoes I could understand not wanting to show pictures of my cars. When attacked by your so-called friends, a sense of disgust appears and can cause one to disassoicate ones self from the situation.
I have met Matt many times and have spoken to him daily. He has never dissappointed me in any way. Matt might over react to things, or come to a quick conclusion at times, but we all have our own individual faults. He can be mad at you one day and praise you the next. Hopefully this will all pass over soon, until it does, Lets give Matt the benefit of the doubt.
|
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 5923
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 12:33 pm: | |
I am too Martin. I guess the difference is I can't trust him beyond a casual acquaintance until I have some proof. I have more invested than most people. If it was just another user on FC that my only contact is on the board and I meet in person now and then, well, I could care less. That's why I understand the position of you, Art, Bruce, and others. Maybe I'm not explaining myself very well. |
Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 5665
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 12:27 pm: | |
Rob,
now I have been most quiet about this subject because I consider Matt also a friend. I would not question if or if not.
Wayne does not know were the particular 250PF is. Means it could very well be in his garage.
I do not doubt Wayne has reservations believing Matt has the car. Yet I do give Matt the benefit of the doubt no matter what. I met him, looked him in the eyes and he does not strike me as a con artist or insecure (really not) to make up cars he owns.
I am holding his innocent until proven guilty.
|
Amir (Amir)
New member
Username: Amir
Post Number: 19
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 12:04 pm: | |
Are you a loving person as well, Rob?
|
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 5921
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 11:49 am: | |
No pictures yet. He was going to send them by tonight. He's also here in Dallas next week. Like I told him on the phone I don't care what anyone else thinks at this point, I just personally need to know the truth to be able to trust him. Why?
1) Matt and his wife have been doing a great job on the FerrariChat.com race shirts. Matt has always been there to help me and FC, so I need some trust to move forward.
2) Matt is looking at moving to Dallas and he wants to help with the FCA chapter here. Again, I need to know I can trust him if we're going to partner on events.
3) I gave Matt my personal contacts for real estate and tech recruiters. Matt is a friend and all of those contacts are friends, I don't want to put any of my friends in a bad situation.
4) Last and maybe minor because I think everyone can make their own decisions, but I just feel I have an overall responsibility for the integrity of the board.
If the pictures never come or they come and I still have questions, then I don't mind associating with Matt, but I won't be able to trust him beyond that. Anyone that doesn't agree with that is not looking out for themselves. I'm one of the most forgiving and trusting people too. |
Oldslow308 (Djparks)
Member
Username: Djparks
Post Number: 488
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 8:49 am: | |
http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/167223/302480.html?1060746767
Don't hold your breath |
Ronny Jones (Ronny)
New member
Username: Ronny
Post Number: 37
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 4:50 am: | |
I think that Matt is waiting for someone to offer �1000, a free lunch and a full page ad in the LA Times before showing pictures etc..!!!
Ronny |
MarkPDX (Markpdx)
Junior Member
Username: Markpdx
Post Number: 242
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 3:01 pm: | |
Send in a UN inspection team so we can find out the truth!!!!
All you lesbians read what happened to this guy. |
Doug meredith (Dougm)
Member
Username: Dougm
Post Number: 355
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 12:16 pm: | |
WOW!
After all the time I spent reading and following links to other links I have become dizzy. Didn't I come to this thread originally to see some posted pictures of women in thong bikinis?
|
Richard Ward (Lomotpk)
Junior Member
Username: Lomotpk
Post Number: 83
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 11:21 am: | |
REPENT!
(it's the American way...)
|
Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 5641
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 11:13 am: | |
damn red dots: that is puss*y |
Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 5640
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 11:12 am: | |
I am with Hubert on this:
I am a lesbian as well. Out of the closet! I love •••••!
|
KCCK (Kenneth)
Member
Username: Kenneth
Post Number: 575
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 11:09 am: | |
At September 14, 2002 - 9:17 pm, Lee Sanders asked the following question on that thread:
"Matt
What are the last 5 digits of the VIN?
Lee Sanders"
It was not answered. |
Ryan Sabga (Sherpa23)
Junior Member
Username: Sherpa23
Post Number: 78
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 11:07 am: | |
Jeff,
That's too funny!! LOL!!! |
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