| Author | Message | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 717 Registered: 4-2002 |
I have not used a G-tech or anything nor do I do real hard launches.... but I would lay a wager my Daytona hits 60 in less than 5.5. I have seen published numbers at 5.4 but would have to search around to refresh memory on which tester and year. There are always be descrepancies in numbers from various tests. Different tires, road surfaces and perhaps most importantly drivers. One driver may shoot for a time regardless of clutch wear... Of all the performance measurements people look at, 0-60 is to me one of the worst. A 20-80 time would be more representative of real world performance. After really pushing my Daytona hard on a mountain drive several weeks ago, clearly the performance limiter for the car is the brakes. On the first downhill twisty section, the brakes were fried after 3 corners. Almost no pedal and lots of stinky brake smell! The car corners pretty well considering its weight and is really fun to push hard because you can steer it with the throttle but the brakes are just not up to the task. Anyone know if uprated fluid and pads would help? Anyone know where to get some better pads for a Daytona? What other non-intrusive brake upgrades are possible? Some ducting of air from under the car would clearly help. So would some slotted rotors, if they can be found? I will eventually look to do some sort of performance brake upgrades. | ||
| Rijk Rietveld (Rijk365gtb4)
Member Username: Rijk365gtb4 Post Number: 276 Registered: 1-2002 |
John The 405 hp is probably listed as SAE hp. This would roughly translate into 352 DIN hp. The smog equipment on a 70's car is limited to a different idle system. No change in hp. The 1/4 mile: 1969, Virage: 13.8 sec 1970, R&T: 13.8 sec 1971, Autocar: 13.7 sec 1973, Moteurs: 13.7 sec 1973, Motor: 13.8 sec 1974, Scratch: 13.3 sec 1974, R&T: 14.5 sec Rijk | ||
| John Ashburne (Jashburne)
Junior Member Username: Jashburne Post Number: 61 Registered: 9-2002 |
Rob & Rijk: I got my Daytona numbers from the production versus racing comparison in the November 1974 R&T. Interesting that the figures for the 365GTB/4 Competitione showed 0-60 at 5.8 seconds, 0-100 at 12.6 and the quarter mile in 14.5 seconds. The Competitione was listed as weighing only 3,190 lbs. and the hp as 402, net. Looking at their review of the Daytona from October 1970, the article showed acceleration figures to match yours, and obviously much better than from the later article. The 1970 article also said that the horsepower was 405, which possibly was gross. The 1970 article did mention that their test car was not a U.S. version and did not have smog equipment. The difference between U.S. and Euro versions seems too large, even for the crude smog controls used in the day. So I have no idea why the discrepancy from the same magazine. The later comparison was at Riverside Raceway in CA, I would guess that the condition of the tires and/or the road surface accounted for some of it. John | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5918 Registered: 12-2000 |
John, I think you numbers look like the 365 GTC/4. My Ferrari video on the Daytona says 5.9. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Intermediate Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 1155 Registered: 8-2001 |
John, I'm getting 0-60 in 5.4 and 1/4 mile in 13.4 seconds from Supercars.net. | ||
| Rijk Rietveld (Rijk365gtb4)
Member Username: Rijk365gtb4 Post Number: 275 Registered: 1-2002 |
John I don't know where you get your figures. According to my R&T the Daytona did 60 in 5.9 sec and the 1/4mi in 13.8 sec at 107.5 mi/h Rijk | ||
| John Ashburne (Jashburne)
Junior Member Username: Jashburne Post Number: 60 Registered: 9-2002 |
I should add that my favorite 60's road Ferrari is a 250 SWB. Not an ounce of wasted metal on those babies! Perfect for road or racing. <sigh> John | ||
| John Ashburne (Jashburne)
Junior Member Username: Jashburne Post Number: 59 Registered: 9-2002 |
Here are the power and weight figures for the various 275 models (from Ian Webb's Osprey Auto History book of the 275 GTB 2 cam, 4 cam, Competizione, Spider): 275GTB 3 carb: 280 bhp and 2,425 lb (steel body) 275 GTB 6 carb: 300 bhp, same weight 275 GTS 3 carb: 260 bhp and 2,535 lbs. 275 GTB/4: 300 bhp The 4 cam car apparently has a cam profile close to racing standards and so really has a "cammy" feel that kicks in at 4,000 rpm and then screams up to 8,000 rpm. Sports Car Graphic said in 1965 that the 2 cam, 3 carb 275GTB would run 0-60 mph in 6.0 seconds, 0-100 mph in 14.6 seconds and do a 1/4 mile in 14 seconds. Top speed was 153 mph. Interestingly, the Daytona was significantly heavier at 3,615 lbs curb weight. It produced 350 bhp and did 0-60 mph in 7.2 seconds, 0-100 in 15.4 seconds and the quarter mile in 15.7 seconds according to Road & Track, all slower than the 275 series. At the time it came out, the Daytona was praised for its outright speed with a top speed of 173 mph, but its extra weight drew criticism as being heavier to drive. The earlier 275 GTB series was considered to have more "finesse". One of the great attractions of the older cars is the generally lighter weight, which can make for a very responsive, agile feel. John | ||
| David P. Smith (Dave330gtc)
Junior Member Username: Dave330gtc Post Number: 151 Registered: 3-2002 |
I also think that the perception of speed can sometimes be more fun than the actual speed itself. If the car takes some work to drive you can have a lot of fun while not having to triple the speed limit. I like the noise, smells, and ride of the older cars. These are also the cars I grew up with so I am naturally biased towards them. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 709 Registered: 4-2002 |
I dont think anyone would term a Daytona as a "mass produced" Ferrari. Less than 1300 made, and they were indeed hand built. The Daytona was the last traditionally built V12 Ferrari. Ive never driven a 275. I dont care for the look of the 275 as much as the Daytona, Its a bit too bulbous looking in the front and too thick in the sides. That said.... I still like the 275 more than the modern cars and I bet it would be a real hoot to drive. Rijk has it right. The old cars are great because you can really have fun driving them on the street. You dont have to go at insane speeds to really be engaged with the car. I also prefer the old cars because I can do my own maintenance and the insurance and tags are TONS cheaper (Daytona costs about $1000 year for insurance and registration... a comperable value 360 would run 4 times that). Also as was posted elsewhere... TORQUE. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5903 Registered: 12-2000 |
275 has closer to 280 HP and 275/4 300 HP. Before the FCA Annual meet in Dallas I had never seen very many vintage Ferraris. My favorite from just looking in books was the 250 LM. When I saw a LM, GTO, and 275 GTB next to each other, I fell in love with the 275. Hey, it's the least expensive too. 1966 275 GTB/6C #08891  | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 556 Registered: 6-2001 |
I have read that the 275 has the reputation it does because it was the last "gentleman racer" built. That is, you could drive it to the track, race all day and drive it home again. After the 275 the racing (or sportsracers) and street cars began diverging. My personal opinion is that the Daytona was also a great "gentleman racer" despite having no brakes. But the 275 was the last of the "hand-crafted" Ferraris. After that they went more into mass production, so a lot of folks believe the 275 (especially the 4 cam) to be the epitome of hand made street/racers. Compared to a modern car like a 360 or 575 those vintage cars are slow. but having a '74 Dino (very underpowered) I can tell you that the old cars are just more involving and fun to drive. | ||
| Ryan Sabga (Sherpa23)
Junior Member Username: Sherpa23 Post Number: 75 Registered: 5-2003 |
Yes!! The Boxer!! I have a sad story about the Boxer, though. As it is about time for me to buy my first F-car, I thought that the Boxer would be a great entry. It's the Ferrari I loved as a kid, it's mid-engine, and it's at a decent price these days. Well, I talked to several Ferrari aficionados, including one of Ferrari's "restoration" experts, and the one word that they all used was "fragile." Sadly, I won't be getting a Boxer as my first Ferrari. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1827 Registered: 10-2002 |
Thanks all, very good comments. I'm probably with Ryan and Lawrence. Yup, 308, BBi and Countach were my cars I was dreaming about and with what hung on my walls. That Mc Queen is at least NOT from Le Mans. Good thing.  | ||
| Rijk Rietveld (Rijk365gtb4)
Member Username: Rijk365gtb4 Post Number: 270 Registered: 1-2002 |
Andreas I'm not a fan of the 275. It's a little claustrofobic. I love the car before it (the Lusso) and the one after (the Daytona). I like the airy greenhouses as well as both interior designs, which I prefer over the 275. However, if my driving experience with the Daytona is any reference, I expect that the 275 is even better. More basic than the Daytona and much lighter. The fun of the old V12 F-cars is that they are engaging at any speed. I prefer this over a modern F-car, since, to get the same rush, you have to do highly illegal things, or you have to take it to the track. I think that Jim used to have a 275 and he is now driving around in a GT40 because of the same reason (not to mention the upcoming P4). Rijk | ||
| Ryan Sabga (Sherpa23)
Junior Member Username: Sherpa23 Post Number: 74 Registered: 5-2003 |
I think that most of us from the younger generation prefer the mid engine cars. For us in that late 20's to early 30's age bracket, mid engine cars are pretty much the only thing that really spells out exotic sports car. It's almost purely generational, too, as while I love to drive the 550, it doesn't have the same soul stirring effect as a mid engine 355 or 360. I know many friends, older than I am, that don't feel that a mid-engine Ferrari is as desirable as a front engine one. And they recall the days of the 275 and such. My generation recalls the days of the 308 and Lamborghini Countach. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Intermediate Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 1257 Registered: 5-2001 |
That's cool | ||
| Paul Loussia (Bumboola)
Junior Member Username: Bumboola Post Number: 154 Registered: 3-2003 |
About this cool:  | ||
| Lawrence Yee (Ferrariguy)
Member Username: Ferrariguy Post Number: 287 Registered: 8-2002 |
I've never driven a 275 but design-wise it doesn't really appeal to me. I have no doubt it's an exciting car to drive. I've only seen one up close and personal and it's a beautiful car (Dark Green / tan) and it sounds great but I grew up in a time where mid-engine cars appeal to me that's why I'm looking at Boxers and Dino 246s. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1821 Registered: 10-2002 |
"the last real Ferrari ever made was the 275 series" Whoa! That is stunning! Why? There are many definitions for the last true Ferrari and I understand people who say it was the Daytona (front 12V and while Fiat didn't own Ferrari yet), but why the 275? It would be the same period as the Daytona? Hmmm. | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 571 Registered: 2-2001 |
Saw a program on TV the other night that included an Enzo; commentator said the last real Ferrari ever made was the 275 series...... | ||
| Ryan Sabga (Sherpa23)
Junior Member Username: Sherpa23 Post Number: 73 Registered: 5-2003 |
One of my friends has a 275 GTB shortnose. It is absolutely beautiful. I have been out a couple of times with him and it is clear from driving in it where the Ferrari mystique comes from. It is a very cool car and very exciting to be in. It is interesting to note that modern Ferraris have an illustrious heritage. A big part of that heritage comes from the style and experience of the older cars. Back when the 275 GTB was new, Ferrari did not necessarily have as extensive a heritage as it enjoys now. Therefore, while it is possible that one of the modern cars might enjoy some success just because "it's a Ferrari," these older ones had to do their part to add to the pedigree. They had to put up the power, the handling, and the fun. And I will tell you, the 275 does all of that and more. It's a very cool car. | ||
| Lawrence Yee (Ferrariguy)
Member Username: Ferrariguy Post Number: 286 Registered: 8-2002 |
Andreas, I have that tape and he did pick the 275 which is owned, I believe, by Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits fame. I was surprised too since he had a 250GTO, 250LM, Daytona Spyder, etc to choose from. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1819 Registered: 10-2002 |
I was watching Alain de Cadenet on 'Victory by design' and he picked the 275 (I believe) as his favourite car from an out of this world cool collection of Ferraris (including a P4 and a SP333). I was stunned. That would have been one of the last cars I'd picked from that assortment. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1568 Registered: 5-2001 |
One of my neighbors has a 66 275 GTB, but unfortunately I have never seen it, I think he keeps it at another location, as I have only seen his 360. Another neighbor has a 275 GTS in red/tan though and it is pretty sweet! Saw him driving a 512BBi on Saturday, didn't know he had one of those... I think the appeal of these cars has more to do with the overall driving experience, rather than the raw performance numbers. The 275 GTS IS a very pretty car. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 703 Registered: 6-2002 |
Well, it does weigh (acording to websites...) 2451.5 lbs, which must help some! | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 1813 Registered: 10-2002 |
First of all let me state, that I really don't know much about Ferraris pre seventies. So I was a bit surprised the other day when I saw a report on Speed about the 275 GTB (I believe from '66) and how this was/is everybody's dream (not my design dream, but tastes vary) and how great of a runner it is with its 12 cylinder 250 HP engine. 250 HP? Well, my 308 has about that, is roughly 20 years younger and NOT a great runner. So unless I got some facts wrong here (quite possible), how do these things really drive? I realize driving a vintage Ferrari has lots of other joys and pleasures, but let's just talk about performance for a moment: Are these cars really 'hot' to drive? I drove an 88 Testarossa and a 355 and found them very cool cars and fast and powerful, but I would not say that about my 308 (that's not to say I don't enjoy it, but not for its speed) and I wonder what these older Ferraris even must feel like. Not trying to upset here anybody, but just curious what people who have driven them think. Be honest please. No red mist. :-) |