| Author | Message | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Junior Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 80 Registered: 1-2002 |
Edward, I wasn't trying to innitate an argument, just relaying some empirical experience, but since you asked. Ok. Molybdenum coatings, holds heat inside the combustion chamber so more usable horsepower can be extracted from it, rather than allowing it to dissipate. The coating also protects the base metal by insulating it from intense, damaging combustion heat. Parts are protected from high temperature oxidation, and heat transfer is reduced by spreading the heat over the entire coated surface, encouraging proper flame travel and eliminating hot spots. Less heat conduction through the wrist pins and rods keeps the crank and bearings cooler and oil temperature lower. Poly Moly� is a tungsten molybdenum disulfide polymer matrix with an extremely low coefficient of friction. Applied .0005" thick to piston skirts, this soft coating partially transfers to the cylinder walls during operation to reduce scuffing and friction caused by piston movement. In addition the Infiniti IRL motor fearture Molybdenum coatings, as does the new Nissan 350Z motor/as Infiniti G35 motor, also the STi Subaru WRX's also feature the coating. With regard to F1 cars, I dont think any of the teams would admit to using this coating as polymers and exotic materials are banned from use in the construction of internal engine parts and casings. Remember the stir that Berrilyum caused? Next, your point about lift is nothing shocking, at any instance where you have airflow moving slower over a surface than the air flow underneath, you'll generate lift. Also, drag, is generated by turbulant air flow, at surface irregularities and interfaces. Also, a grand prix cars aerodynamics is a 2 part overall system, the 1st part is the rear wing, and the 2nd the front wing, the barage boards, and diffuser. The rear wing has a very defined function, that being generating roughly a third of the car's total downforce. Rear wings can create over 1000N of downforce and weight about 7kg. The rear wings are the ones that are varied the most from track to track. As the rear wings of the car create the most drag, the teams tailor the rear aerodynamic load to suit a particular track configuration. Monza in Italy is a very fast track with long straights and few corners, with full throttle being achieved for around 70% of the lap. As more wing angle creates more downforce, more drag is produced, reducing the top speed of the car. At Monza therefore, top speed is vital, so teams run very little rear wing angle to reduce drag. At Monaco, where the car is constantly turning in and out of corners, downforce is vital, so maximum downforce is needed from the wings. The rear wing, made up of two sets of aerofoils connected to each other by wing endplates. The top aerofoil provides most of the downforce and is the one that is varied the most from track to track. The lower aerofoils is smaller and is made up of just one element. As well as creating downforce itself, the low pressure region immediately below the wing helps suck air through the diffuser, gaining more downforce under the car. The endplates connect the two wings and prevent air from spilling over the sides of the wings, maximising the high pressure zone above the wing, creating maximum downforce. So, as you can rear wing design is no trivial matter, nor an element to disregard. The diffuser may be the most critical, but it works in conjunction w/ the rear wing. Lastly, it seems as though you have a real stigma against Honda's, that fine, you don't have to like them, but before you make comments in such a condecending tone, you should take a moment to research the utility and point in someone else's comments. Regards, Hubert | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Junior Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 139 Registered: 2-2002 |
That's a replica of the McLaren M6 GT. No idea what's underneath. Probably a tube frame and a Chevy V-8 | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 187 Registered: 7-2001 |
When I first saw the new Ferrari, it kept reminding me of a car I used to see in an old television show. Now I remember!!!! Hardcastle and McCormick from the early '80s    | ||
| Edward G. Salla (350hpmondial)
Junior Member Username: 350hpmondial Post Number: 126 Registered: 2-2002 |
Right on Manu. My Ferrari's pan is perfectly flat back to the engine bay, with side skirts. (I believe a 360's is converging then diverging like an F1 car.) This adds to high speed stability. Also, less drag when I'm doing 100MPH+ Also, less wind noise. (Deceiving when at speed.) A honda's underside is all drag. (what a drag) Drag under a car will create lift. So go ahead and put that spoiler on your honda. (You need it to correct your poor design. (NSX's are excluded from this comment.) Please ,,,just don't put it on my F60's beautiful rear end. Oh, and Molibdenum is that black crap that's added to cheep grease. So, How many F1 cars run these piston skirts? (I'm sure that you don't really desire the piston skirt to make contact with the cylinder wall. Maybe honda made another bo bo?) | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 208 Registered: 2-2002 |
You'll find that the rear wing on a grand prix car produces a very small amount of downforce COMPARED TO the rear diffuser at the bottom. That is in fact where the majority of the entire downforce of the car is generated. A large part of designing an F1 car is to maximise efficiency of air through the diffuser. On a road car (even an F60) you don't NEED a wing. It may help but it's not STRICTLY necessary. Besides too much downforce on a road car is undesirable - you need MEGA springs to hold the car up which then can't handle bumps/lumps. The F60 looks better and better every time I look at it. | ||
| Peyman (Peyman)
New member Username: Peyman Post Number: 16 Registered: 1-2002 |
WOW WOW WOW what an awesome machine. In my eyes perhaps the most beautiful F car. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Junior Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 78 Registered: 1-2002 |
Frank, My friend and I tried this out. At a track event we ran w/ the wing on his Integra Type R, and w/out, and w/ the spoiler on, there was a noticable gain in stability above 100mph. For reference the Integra Type R's came w/ rear wings from the factory, as well as an LSD, higher compression pistons, higher lift cams, upgraded ECU and valvetrain equating to a 8300 rpm red line, molybendum coated piston skirts, etc. A really purpose built-performance street/track car-so empirically I can say that FF cars can and do benefit from some rear downforce, also braking felt a bit more solid, as the rear stayed more planted as the weight shifted forward. However, I should reitterate that this wing came w/ the car from Honda, and was developed via a wind tunnel, not an aftermarket parts catalog. -Hubert | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 849 Registered: 9-2001 |
What's funny to me is these people that put rear wings on front wheel drive cars . That lifts the front end up and makes the car handle even worse! | ||
| Edward G. Salla (350hpmondial)
Junior Member Username: 350hpmondial Post Number: 123 Registered: 2-2002 |
Squirrely? as,, in a turn? say, above 100MPH? Like I said, A big,, honking,, glue on,,, "Wanna Be" spoiler will help you above 100MPH. But, it makes the car's lines look too busy (IMO). (I guess if the music's is too loud, or your spoiler too small, your too old?) Thus, my ALPINE system in my Ferrari and my in home "VERY LOUD" 12 track, CD quality, recording studio both keep me young, ,,,, well,,,,,, younger. ha ha) So, if your celica only does 95mph, why put one on? Better to buy a sub-woofer. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2543 Registered: 2-2001 |
Proper aerodynamics like the 360 Challenge? The car the factory wont let them put a spoiler on because it would take away from their superiority complex and vast claims of sufficient downforce without a spoiler, despite the rear end being squirrely from lack of downforce on the track...  It does look like it should be quite the car as it is, I still like big honking spoilers though on the more wild rides. It really does have a 250LM style to it though like you guys say, cool. | ||
| Edward G. Salla (350hpmondial)
Junior Member Username: 350hpmondial Post Number: 122 Registered: 2-2002 |
With proper aeordynamics, you don't need to put a Toy spoiler on it. Why "spoil" the design. (A spoiler will only help above about 100 MPH, so why do so many "wanna be's" have them?) BTW ,,,, I like the duck tail of the 250LM. Clean, soft,,,,,, like a sexy female. | ||
| Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
Member Username: 4re308 Post Number: 518 Registered: 6-2001 |
Great, I have to sell my soul again. What a car!! | ||
| izel k (Ferrarist)
New member Username: Ferrarist Post Number: 16 Registered: 3-2001 |
gorgeous awesome beautiful machine. Ferrari did it again i think it will have the paddle shifter when it goes into production. also it doesn't need a rear spoiler as we see , a legendary design. | ||
| Dave Mills (360dave)
New member Username: 360dave Post Number: 42 Registered: 1-2002 |
>Gorgeous car ! It sorta has a 250LM flavor to >it with the curved fender lines and tail treatment That's exactly what I was thinking! That really surprised me, since I'd seen a few pics before and never made the connection. I really like this car! Dave   | ||
| Stephen Patterson (Srpatterson)
Junior Member Username: Srpatterson Post Number: 117 Registered: 11-2001 |
Forget the F60 name. With 5 years until the anniversary Ferrari will never call this the F60. Look for it's successor, the F60 in 2007. It is a GREAT looking car, though!!! Ferrari is still calling it the FX. The name will not be reveiled until September in Paris. | ||
| Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Junior Member Username: Ricrain Post Number: 90 Registered: 2-2002 |
Those test specs are tentative, at best, as Ferrari traditionally holds back final sepcs until a full press kit is available. Even the specs on the gearbox and engine are subject to change. I've seen the same speculation prior to any new model release for over 20 years... Most observers were swearing right up until the last minute that the F50 was going to have the paddle shifter, but it didn't make it out of development in time. Hence, the F50 has the same gear indicator in the dash as the F355 F1 and 360 F1, but still has a manual gear box. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
New member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 15 Registered: 4-2002 |
How fast to 186? ;) | ||
| L.C.Plester (Lcplester)
New member Username: Lcplester Post Number: 44 Registered: 2-2002 |
6 secs to 100mph... | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2043 Registered: 5-2001 |
here are more of those BTW: http://www.dieselstation.com/F60/index.html | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2042 Registered: 5-2001 |
forget my post it is F-1...  | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2041 Registered: 5-2001 |
will 7 speed bring the 1st gear back to the rear position? | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Junior Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 232 Registered: 3-2002 |
7 speed gearbox?!?!?!?!?!? | ||
| Ryanab (Ryanab)
New member Username: Ryanab Post Number: 38 Registered: 3-2002 |
A 7 speed..... Drool.. RMK. | ||
| John Bicsak (Funshipone)
Junior Member Username: Funshipone Post Number: 59 Registered: 1-2002 |
Where do I place my order. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
New member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 36 Registered: 4-2002 |
Gorgeous car ! It sorta has a 250LM flavor to it with the curved fender lines and tail treatment. Very well done IMHO, much better looking than an F40 or F50. Terry | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Junior Member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 95 Registered: 4-2002 |
Oh my god...that is a must have! I bet Jay Leno will jump on that! | ||
| Michael (Mtabije)
Member Username: Mtabije Post Number: 259 Registered: 10-2001 |
thanks nika!!! | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 521 Registered: 12-2001 |
http://www.sportscartesting.com/news/ferrari/id297/pg1085 WOW! |