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Bill Gomez (Bgomez)
New member
Username: Bgomez

Post Number: 20
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 1:02 pm:   

Marc,
I have used Blitz wax before and it does give great shine and depth and as an added bonus it lasts longer than either P21S or Pinnacle Soveran that I now use. One thing I didn't like about the Blitz was too much chalky residue. Their quick detail spray, One Grand Show Off, is my favorite of all.
As far as Zaino goes, I like it very much too but on my 996TT it had great reflectivity and shine but not much depth or warmth; almost looked like plastic. I topped it with p21S and it seemed to "warm" it up a bit. Zaino seems to last much longer and feels slicker than the others.
Bill
Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
Member
Username: Robertgarven

Post Number: 317
Registered: 2-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:33 am:   

Ive tried,

first finish
$180 zymol
mothers
liquid glass
classe (german)
and a few others I have forgotten
but I always go back to Megiures #9 swirl remover and #26 paste wax. I gives the best finish on my car all the others seemed to scratch the paint, but I have a very thin paint now and cannot use anything to abrasive.

Rob
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda

Post Number: 1900
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:25 am:   

Agreed Mike,
I think they get their marketing folks from the cosmetics industry. :-)
Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mcharness

Post Number: 1039
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:23 am:   

What bothers me about some of these products (like my write up earlier regarding CrystalGuard) is the "fluff" and downright misleading stuff they put into their marketing. I haven't tested Zymol, but I'm turned off by their information like this:

"The formula contains vitamin E, a natural antioxidant and moisturizer used for sun protection. Vitamin E also retards
oxidation of the polish's organic constituents for a more durable and longer-lasting shine."


They're wanting me to believe that because Vitamin E is an "anti-oxidant" for biological tissue (like human arteries) that it "retards oxidation" of elements of their polish? Puh-leeze! And try to claim Vitamin E as "a moisurizer used for sun protection"?? No one uses it FOR sun protection, though it is sometimes added TO sunscreen for skin moisturizing. Quite a stretch from benefit there to your car's paint.

dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda

Post Number: 1897
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 10:51 am:   

Jeff,
That is the beauty of the Zymol Cleaner Wax, it is very mild...they use very finely ground peanut shells in the mix. If you examine the cloth as you apply it, very little color is coming of, if any, when applied to a non-clearcoated car, like my 328...I see no more traces of paint coming off than using the straight Zymol Ital wax, which has no abrasives.

But I would agree, most other brands of "cleaner wax" generally have pretty strong solvents and abrasives that may not be appropriate if you wax often...but average consumers (the target audience) wax their cars once per year, if at all. We on the other hand are probably doing this three or more times per year...

John also makes a good point about WHY to use microfiber cloths, they do make it SO much easier to remove the wax, and are easier on you finish (don't leave fine scratches).
jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member
Username: Atheyg

Post Number: 486
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 8:17 am:   

I wouldn't use a cleaner wax regularly as you take off paint each time

Glaze first then wax, Glaze alone and it will evaporate off in the sun in a hour or so.


I have been using Liquid Glass and its okay, I'd like to try something better in a polymer that will offer better chip protection, I have tried all the Mothers stuff from the pro grades to the 3 bottle kits and what I dont like about them is they seem to leave a greasy smear on the paint,the same with the 3m pro products
John Sanders (Sandersja)
New member
Username: Sandersja

Post Number: 15
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 7:24 am:   

I used to think that zymol or other high-carnauba-content wax was hard to apply. That was before I discovered the miracle of microfiber. A good microfiber cloth takes nearly all excess applied wax off with one easy pass. Another buff pass with good quality cotton brings out a high gloss.

I also like the recommended hand-application of the zymol wax/glaze. I think the extra heating/melting may be beneficial and you can really detect any paint-surface dirt. I use surgical gloves to keep anything from being absorbed into my skin.
Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member
Username: Enjoythemusic

Post Number: 765
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 6:53 am:   

Oh no, the wax debate... Ok, my 2 Yen...

Zymol Cleaner Wax is awesome! With great prep work (clay, etc) before and Zymol Ital after the Zymol Cleaner Wax and she shines.

So:

Clay, etc

Zymol Cleaner Wax

Zymol Ital

Use Zymol spray for brief touch ups and to wipe off dead bugs and the odd bird that the car "swallows". Darn slow flying birds!!!

Enjoy the Drive,

Steven R. Rochlin
stephen winter (355f)
New member
Username: 355f

Post Number: 33
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 2:44 am:   

would have to agree with racerxgto

Ive tried many polymer products and the results are excellent and easy.

But the Zymol wax although a bit harder to apply ( or should I say remove!) seems to just last and last on the bodywork. There is noticable beading even 8 months after application and I dont seem to get that with other products
Gabe V (Racerxgto)
Junior Member
Username: Racerxgto

Post Number: 122
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 11:40 pm:   

woah... how did I miss this one?

McGuires has three different series, Deep Crystal, Gold Class, Mirror Glaze. Each of which are good products taylor made for the novice to the pro(if you want to call it pro), but does not last as long, thus, enabling you to buy more product. I will not compromise my quality for that reason.

Zymol Ital is a natural product which produces deep gloss when applied right and the longevity of the product is the best I've seen. Which is why I carry it. I want satisfied f-car owners!

ALl the products mentioned are good, there's not question about it. Every owner has happy with the results of their works, even though they're doing it wrong! Just kidding guys, don't flame me on that, nonetheless, every reputable product mentioned required a decent amount of labor to achieve a required result. There are no shortcuts in detailing. Happy detailing!
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda

Post Number: 1890
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 10:41 pm:   

Kevin,
The Meguires Cleaner Wax, WAS highly rated by Consumers Reports, but that was over 10 or 12 years ago...the last test about 3 years ago rated the Zymol Cleaner Wax was one of the most highest rated. Surprisingly the Meguires cleaner wax was dropped to only mid pack...I guess the competition passed them by...at least for this product.
Kevin Deal (Tube_guy)
Junior Member
Username: Tube_guy

Post Number: 57
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 10:14 pm:   

I use Meguires "Car Cleaner Wax" for years on all my cars. I have a friend that was into Wax Shop stuff...and we did a side by side. The difference was shocking on my deep red motorcycle.

Funny Consumer Reports ended up giving it top honors too. At least last time I looked. Low abrasive. Simple to use.

Sometimes the small "shi shi" products are dog crap IMHO. But they come up with a story and higher price. I would pay any price frankly for good wax. the fact that Meguires is not expensive is fine with me.

Jose L. Sebastia (Jlsebast)
New member
Username: Jlsebast

Post Number: 3
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 2:57 pm:   

"OK, I am convinced on the Zaino - any idea how to get it in the UK? "
**************************+
Zaino is distributed in europe by
http://www.viper-lifestyle.de/indexengl.html
Dom Vitarella (Dom)
Member
Username: Dom

Post Number: 463
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 2:21 pm:   

Wax provides protection for the paint. If you don't wax, the elements will ruin your paint over time.

Prior to waxing, you would clean and polish the paint to make it look good. Once it looks good, you use wax to "seal" the look (i.e., keep it looking good until it gets dirty again).

Hope this helps.

Dom
Ze Shark (Ze_shark)
New member
Username: Ze_shark

Post Number: 32
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 12:44 pm:   

This is going to be a dumb question to some but ... why do you wax your cars for ?
Are you sure that all this stuff is not altering the original paint clear coat ?
Dom Vitarella (Dom)
Member
Username: Dom

Post Number: 462
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 11:14 am:   

Marc,

The one grand wax is a very good wax. I've not used it personally, but some things to watch out for are staining of trim, and dust attraction. If you do a search on www.autopia.org, you will find lots of info on Blitz.

Dom
Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Member
Username: Frankieferrari

Post Number: 349
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 10:52 am:   

Thanks,Mike. my bad for not starting from the bottom. I will definitely try this stuff. The leather cleaner and conditioner that I've been using on all the Leather in my house;coats,boots,chairs,car seats,you name it,is called;"Cavo-ox". Cleaner-conditioner for all fine leather. Says it" safely nourishes,protects and cleans smooth leathers,such as aniline dyed or surface dyed. Regular use keeps leather smooth and soft. Removes dirt,greasy spots and most stains.Can be used as often as you like,as it is a natural product.without any chemical additives,and is Ph correct. Contains marrow and some olive oils,and lanolin". It keeps all of my leather goods clean,soft and nourished,so they don't dry out and crack. Keeps the leather dash from shrinking,too.I have also used Ekorness Hide Bracer,from Norway. It's also a very good cleaner and conditioner,that says it "cleans the leather without stripping natural oils,and conditions without clogging pores. Protects leather from drying and cracking,and prevents discoloration that can occur from contact with ultraviolet rays. Can be used with all leathers including eel and snakeskin. It will not pull color from the leathers.And is color safe". Both work very well and I've had nothing but good experience with either product.
Marc Hartog (Hedge)
Junior Member
Username: Hedge

Post Number: 72
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 10:31 am:   

Has anyone else used the one grand blitz product range? I can get it easily in the UK and it seems well priced compared to some of the other products.

http://www.frost.co.uk/productList.asp?catID=15

John Sanders (Sandersja)
New member
Username: Sandersja

Post Number: 14
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 7:29 am:   

After going through many different products, I have settled on and have been extremely happy with Zymol Concours glaze.

However, I agree with previous posters in that paint prep is the key to a mirror-like reflection. For paint cleaning I have found the zymol HD Cleanse to be the best. It is non-abrasive and leaves a pristine surface for the wax.
Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mcharness

Post Number: 1027
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 5:55 am:   

Frank, I'd already posted the link earlier in the thread... it's
www.zainobros.com

for older leather that needs reconditioning and not just maintaining, I like www.leatherique.com better.

dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda

Post Number: 1883
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 11:43 pm:   

Andy,
The bag is yellow, not gold....but seriously, I find the Zymol Ital kinda hard to apply and remove. Definitely goes on easier if applied in the sun, on a warm day, as the wax melts easier...Overall, I like the Zymol Cleaner Wax you can find at any auto parts store or Walmart or Target. Finished look is as good as the Ital IMO. Do clay bar first...

I am very interested in trying some of these other products mentioned.
Andy Barre (Abarre)
Junior Member
Username: Abarre

Post Number: 67
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 11:26 pm:   

I beg to differ with all of you so far...

Zymol Ital MUST BE THE BEST!!!!

It comes in a resale-red container inside of a gold silk bag!

Plus it has a prancing horse on the sticker!

Plus you get to apply (caress?) it with your bare hands!

I fell for it and sent them my $124 for the Ital/Treat starter kit. Haven't applied it yet, but the car started looking better the instant the UPS driver turned into the neighborhood!!!

Seriously though, I have washed the car with Zymol HD-Cleanse and waxed it once with Zymol Carbon. Love the finish and it wasn't hard to apply or remove with the microfiber cloth.

I'll let you know about the Ital once I get off my lazy ....
Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Member
Username: Frankieferrari

Post Number: 347
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 8:12 pm:   

Where do you get this Zaino stuff ? Would like to give it a try. I used to work,years ago,at a Danish Furniture store. And,they sold bottles of Leather Conditioner,for $2,000.00 and up leather recliners. I use that stuff on my car leather,and it works GREAT! You can by it at any fine furniture store.
Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mcharness

Post Number: 1024
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 6:15 pm:   

Zaino's leather stuff is "Leather in a Bottle". Works great if your leather is already in good condition.

Dom, Finish First is much better than Liquid Glass. Liquid Glass was the first of the polymers, and it's old technology, being strongly petroleum based (you can smell it). Finish First does give a VERY slick finish, similar to Zaino, and I liked it better than Zaino until Zaino came out with their ZFX catalyst stuff.

Johnny Bravo (Ben) (Johnny_bravo)
Junior Member
Username: Johnny_bravo

Post Number: 71
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 6:01 pm:   

I only use Zaino products now and I've never been able to get an equal result with anything else (Zymol, Meguiars, et cetera...)...er, well at least a result that suits me as much. During the summer on really hot days it's so quick and easy to apply it's not even comparable to anything else. By the time I'd be finished with a coat of Z2 or Z5 the end of the car where I started would already be totally dry so I could start wiping/buffing that area off and work my way up. The finished product is unreal, repels most dirt/dust, water runs off of it like Rain-X and water spots wipe right off, and lasts a LOT longer than any wax. My cars have to stay outside unfortunately and I only have to redo it maybe 2x a year if that depending on how the weather is & for those that garage their cars (which I imagine most of you F-car owners do) it'll last even longer. I agree that it's kinda inconvenient that you have to use only their products to keep the finish up and most folks have to order it online or via mail (some various performance shops around the country sell it I believe), but at least for me a little goes a very long way and since you don't have to redo the finish as often as traditional wax it'll last a long time. I bought the stuff I have now several years ago when I had my RX-7 and still have some left after putting numerous (7-9) coats on my GVR-4. The car wash they sell really doesn't last long though and it isn't cheap, but it's blueberry gum smell is rather pleasant :-) I do use Meguiars California Gold clay bar kit thingy and that worked great at cleaning the paint very thoroughly (after using Dawn liquid soap first). Oh, and I will admit though that Zymol's leather cleaner/treatment (I forget the actual name of it) is a lot better than anything else I've used as well. It doesn't leave that greasy slick finish other brands seem to. Oh and it smells pretty nice too :-) Just my $.02
Frank Wiedmann (Frankieferrari)
Member
Username: Frankieferrari

Post Number: 343
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 5:58 pm:   

I've used Zymol,and Mequiars Gold Class. last year,took my 308 out to an FCA sponsored concours,and won 2nd. in my class,(out of about 25 cars) the first time out to any "judged" event. And,had ALOT of people ask me about what kind of wax do I use. This year,used the Zymol,same event,not one person asked me what kind of wax did I use. So,I think,for now,unless I find anything better,I am sticking with the Gold Class. Leaves a really brilliant shine. I used it on my '91 'vette,that has 178,000 miles on it,still has "decent" paint,(a "10 footer") and it makes that car look like new. But,like one of the other posts mentioned,am looking for a good "swirl remover" to use prior to waxing. Any suggestions? I didn't even look to see if Mequiars has one-I'll check. But,you really can't go wrong with a product thats been around just about as long as the automobile has,like Mequiars. (no,I don't work for them)
Nick Berry (Nickb)
Junior Member
Username: Nickb

Post Number: 140
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 5:36 pm:   

I believe there are two Zymol products being sold today? One maufactured in the US is suppose to be an inferior product to the German product which is considerably more expensive. Both have the same name.

Another wax worth trying and in my opinion one of the best is ONE GRAND BLITZ wax. It is pure carnauba. Prep the surface with 3M Hand Glaze before applying the wax and the shine is deep, color enhancing(opposed to a mirror like finish which detracts from the color and styling of the vehicle) and relatively long lasting. I highly recommend it.
Dom Vitarella (Dom)
Member
Username: Dom

Post Number: 461
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 5:19 pm:   

Mike,

I've been tempted to try finish first, but it wasn't available locally, and didn't feel like mail ordering. I think a similar product is liquid glass, though I believe that liquid glass can not be layered.

How is the slickness of finish first? I must say, that is one of the best things about Zaino. That stuff was soooooo slick.

I originally tried the Mothers Reflections because I wanted something easy that lasted for my wife's car. I had heard about it on Autopia, and I've had good results with other Mother's products (clay, sealer and glaze, chrome polish). The fact that it was available locally was a plus. When I tried it on her car, I was pleasantly surprised at how nice it turned out. From there, I tried it on my Alfa, then finally the GT4. The only downside to Reflections is that it has cleaners, so it can not be layered. But, you can top it with a nice caranuba to enhance the look.

It's really made me realize that there is no real need for the "boutique" products. Paint prep is key. Once the car was properly prepped, it didn't matter what I put on, it would look good.

I will continue to experiment with other products, just because I like to experiment.

BTW, my paint prep procedure generally is:

1) Wash
2) Clay (Mother's clay)
3) Meguiars #83 Dual Action Cleaner/Polish applied with a PC 7336 to remove swirls
4) If there is any haziness (though not usually), will try some 3M Swirl Mark Remover, or possibly the S100 Shine Enhancing Cleanser
5) Wax (or sealant)

And I use microfiber towels to remove all products.

Unfortunately, my cars all currently look like crap, because I haven't had the time to properly clean them (My procedure can take 4-5 hours to do)

Dom
Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mcharness

Post Number: 1023
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 4:54 pm:   

Dom, I had the same complaint about Zaino, but that was their old formulation. Their new formulation doesn't require the delay, as it has a new catalyst to promote cross linking more quickly. You can wipe it off as soon as it dries and hazes over.

Marc, you can probably just order it for shipment to you via their website at www.zainobros.com

Still, for one-step and easiest, Finish First is hard to beat (www.liqui-tech.com), but I haven't tried the "Mother's Reflections" stuff you mentioned.
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda

Post Number: 1873
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 4:32 pm:   

I have been using both the Zymol Ital and Zymol Cleaner Wax (the blue bottle stuff sold in the mass merchant stores) and find them to both work quite well. I have not tried any of the other recommended products, but will take a try sometime, as it sounds like they are worthy.

I couple comments: The Zymol Cleaner Wax is awesome, and very reasonably priced. It was highly rated in Consumer Reports three years ago. Some folks poo poo about it, cause it is "spec" manufactured, under contract by Turtle Wax. Not a huge deal, it is still Zymol's formulation. I find the difference in quality between the Cleaner Wax and Ital to be very close, and when you consider the cost difference (and effort), the Cleaner Wax wins hands down.

Good points by others on preperation. I always clay bar the car with the Griot's product and their Speed Shine, before waxing. I apply the wax and remove it with microfiber cloths, but I get mine cheap at Costco. Same with car wash soap, you can get the Zymol stuff (occaisionally) at Costco cheap too, although presently they are stocking some other brand. BTW, I got the Zymol Ital on Ebay for $45 delivered. Ebay rocks.

If I had a fancier car than a sh*tbox 328, I might put more effort into this waxing thing.
Marc Hartog (Hedge)
Junior Member
Username: Hedge

Post Number: 71
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 4:19 pm:   

aaaaaaaah!

The ONLY problem with f-chat is that you get too much excellent information!

Will go to bed now dreaming of 'wax on, wax off' and the various different waxes I might use.

Later dudes.
Marc Hartog (Hedge)
Junior Member
Username: Hedge

Post Number: 70
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 4:16 pm:   

http://www.ciao.co.uk/Zaino_Polish_System__Review_5319000

OK, I am convinced on the Zaino - any idea how to get it in the UK?
Dom Vitarella (Dom)
Member
Username: Dom

Post Number: 460
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 4:14 pm:   

I've used Zaino, but the reason I stopped using it was that you have to use their products. Want a quick detailer- need to use Z6. Etc.

Also, I found the procedure too much of a pain in the butt. First wash the car. Then, take care of swirls, imperfections. Then, you have to wash the car again to make sure you get rid of all the oils, etc. Then Z1, then Z2. Wait 24 hrs, then another layer... By the time I bought all the Zaino stuff (wash, Z2, Z5, Z6,Z1), I had spent about $80.

Just too much, and I am time limited. That's what I like about the Mother's Reflections. It's a polymer product, and it lasts a while. Easy to put on. Looks great. Plus, if I want, I can top it with a regular wax like S100 to enhance the look.

Dom
Marc Hartog (Hedge)
Junior Member
Username: Hedge

Post Number: 69
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 4:10 pm:   

From Zaino's website:

"Most recently, we were also named #1 by The Wax Test and Guru Reports who tested 46 waxes, so you don't have to!"

Does anyone know if this claim is true? Their links take you somewhere that you can buy the report..I just really want to know they're not making it up!
Marc Hartog (Hedge)
Junior Member
Username: Hedge

Post Number: 68
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 4:05 pm:   

So it sounds like Zaino with a quality towel then! so far!

Thanks for the tips..I will post shiny pics after I am dun-waxing.

http://www.zymol.com/towel2.htm

Shall we start on these, chaps?
Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mcharness

Post Number: 1020
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 3:47 pm:   

Yes, elsewhere in my article, I mention that Zaino has become my new favorite since they changed their formulation. It beat out my previous favorite, Finish First, which is still a close second and is available locally for me at an auto sports shop.

Gregory (Prugna_328)
New member
Username: Prugna_328

Post Number: 19
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 3:44 pm:   

Been thru alot of diff. products. Never seen anything like Zaino. Great stuff.
Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mcharness

Post Number: 1019
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 3:41 pm:   

I was sent some Crystal Guard by their marketing VP to review for my Concours/Detailing Tips column I do for the FCA News Bulletin. They're changing their marketing (maybe they already have) based on letting them read my review (pertinent part of the draft is below).

===================

Perhaps the most talked about product of this type making the rounds on the sports car Internet forums is a product called CrystalGuard (www.CrystalGuard.com). However, at $99.00 for their CG Pro Application kit, it’s more pricey than other options, even though the kit is good for two applications. And it’s a 3-stage process, with first a primer, followed by a glass/fluorine fiber coating, and then finally a clear topcoating. Your car needs to be wet before the first coat is applied, and then there’s a mandatory 2 to 3 hour wait between steps according to the instructions, though CG’s management has since told me that they’re changing the instructions to just a 1-hour wait as long enough. They also have a spray version (“CG Quick”) that is supposed to provide the same protection and shine as the 3-step version, though it needs to be reapplied more often. But what really got my interest is that they say CrystalGuard prevents scratches, because it has a hardness on the MOH’s scale of 6, and they say their absolute hardness is eight times better than competing products, or put another way, a CG protected car has only approximately a 1/8 chance of getting scratched compared to competing products. That’s quite a competitive edge for protection… if true in the real world environment, rather than just lab test statistics.

I’ve done panels on my Ferrari with Finish First, Zaino, CrystalGuard Pro and CG Quick, side-by-side for comparison. CrystalGuard was the initial winner. I could feel the difference when I ran my hand over the surfaces, and visually there was perhaps a 5%-10% better appearance in the shine depth between CrystalGuard and the other two, though I found CrystalGuard to be more prone to streaking if you don’t apply it quite right. However, the slightly better appearance faded overnight, telling me that perhaps there’s oil in the base that flashes off over time, so it ended up no better than the others, though still very good. What was more important, is that when looking at the reflection of my overhead fluorescent lights in the paint, while the reflection in the Zaino and Finish First sections were bright white, the CrystalGuard section reflected a bit of an orangish color, so it’s changing the optics slightly. I called CG’s vice president of marketing Jim Campos, who said he’d never heard of that being an issue before, but of course, most people don’t do side-by-side comparisons of multiple products. I then checked this with someone else who is as particular as I am and had compared the products, and he found the same thing. However, that was something I could live with if their claim of hardness was valid and it could really protect my car from scratches. A fingernail has a MOH’s hardness of approximately 2.5, and an iron nail has a MOH’s hardness of 4.5. So… I shouldn’t be able to scratch paint (or any other surface) protected with CrystalGuard, since it has a hardness of 6, even if I drag an iron nail across it! I found that difficult to believe, so I decided to test it… but not on my car. I took several blank compact discs, some plain, and some I sprayed with catalyzed urethane (automotive clearcoat) and treated the recordable polycarbonate surface with either Zaino, Finish First, or CrystalGuard, labeling each one. You can scratch a bare CD or clearcoat surface by rubbing it with a paper towel, creating swirl marks like we often see in our paint, and I can put in a more serious scratch if I go side-to-side with my fingernail. The edge of a copper penny (MOH’s hardness of 3) will certainly mar the surface, with an iron nail doing serious damage. Would CrystalGuard, even after giving it a week to fully cure, really be able to withstand such abuse better than Zaino or Finish First? I won’t keep you in suspense… the answer is NO. They all are more resistant to microscratches (like with a paper towel) but none kept even an aggressive sharp fingernail from scratching the surface. Now, the others don’t claim to keep your car from getting scratched, just to protect it from the elements, but I find CrystalGuard’s claim to be without merit. It’s still a good product overall, but I don’t find it to be any better in real-world scratch protection than the others I tested, so I personally don’t consider it worth the higher price. I also don’t like the advertising hype, though by the time you read this, their marketing materials and claims will probably have been re-written, much in response to allowing CG’s management to preview this article.

No matter which poly/sealant you choose, chances are you’ll love the results, and if you use Zaino or Finish First, you’ll love how easy it is to use and how quickly you can improve and protect your car’s shine. Both brands also offer a “quick” spray, similar to Griot’s SpeedShine that I’ve mentioned before. While they can be used without the normal polymer-sealant underneath, I’d suggest you use them only as a supplement for maintaining the more durable poly sealant coating.

Next month we’ll have a similar discussion about waxes.

===================
Mule (Mule)
Junior Member
Username: Mule

Post Number: 65
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 3:16 pm:   

There have been a lot of threads on waxes, but I think the wax is not the key.

I like Zymol, but as already brought up here, the prep and the technique are just as, if not more, important. I started using Griot's Best of Show wax with their microfiber towels. Putting it on and taking it off in straight (not circular) motions, it came out better than anything else. The towels leave no marks and help hide some previous swirl marks. I think the technique and the microfiber towels can make any quality wax look good.

Look at the reflection in my profile. That was after trying all the brand names with fair success. Then improving the technique and the towels made a huge improvment.


Andrew H (Stokpro)
Junior Member
Username: Stokpro

Post Number: 159
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 2:05 pm:   

You can find Zymol at reasonable prices at Costco.
Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member
Username: Timn88

Post Number: 3414
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 1:44 pm:   

Ziano is great too. but harder to find than zymol since you cant buy it in any stores.
jm2 (Yello355)
New member
Username: Yello355

Post Number: 39
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 1:01 pm:   

There is a great comparison of various waxes at :www.gurureports.com
Dom Vitarella (Dom)
Member
Username: Dom

Post Number: 459
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 12:31 pm:   

Tyler,

That's exactly what I was saying. Paint prep is key. After that, use whatever floats your boat.

For me, easy to apply is a must. That's why I ultimately tried Mother's Reflections. I was very impressed with how it looked on my wife's car, and so I tried it on my GT4. Looks great, last long (it is also a synthetic) and at ~$9 a bottle, can't be beat.

Dom
Tyler (Bahiaau)
Intermediate Member
Username: Bahiaau

Post Number: 1039
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 12:25 pm:   

Marc, that is the stuff. Also, www.crystalguard.com


Not everybody likes it, but I do. I still think that proper prep is everything when it comes to making paint nice and shiny. If you prep it right, paint should look great with most products. I CG because it is faster and easier to apply than Zymol.
Marc Hartog (Hedge)
Junior Member
Username: Hedge

Post Number: 67
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 12:18 pm:   

Tyler,

Is this the product you are referring to?

http://www.caldetail.com/pages/9/

Would you recommend this treatment rather than regular waxing?
Dan (Bobafett)
Intermediate Member
Username: Bobafett

Post Number: 1388
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 12:18 pm:   

Tyler,

I, too, have recently done CG. I used to be a Zymol fanatic.

I still feel like I'm cheating, though, wiht the CrytalGuard. There's no way it can be this easy! :-)

--Dan
Dom Vitarella (Dom)
Member
Username: Dom

Post Number: 458
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 12:17 pm:   

Zymol is pretty expensive for what you get.

The key to keeping your car looking good is paint prep/technique. A good detailer will make your car look good, whether he uses turtle wax, zymol, or zaino. There are very few (if any) people that would be able to distinguish between the various waxes, sealants. Therefore, you are probably better off just using what works easiest, costs less.

S100 wax is a good wax (the same as P21S), sold at harley dealers. It is the same thing as P21S, but marketed for motorcycles, and is about $10 cheaper (~$14).

I've recently tried a bottle of Mother's Reflections, and it looks really good. Cheap (~$9) and simple.

Make sure you get your paint prep/detailing technique down, then use whatever floats your boat. You won't be dissapointed.

Check out www.autopia.org for tips on detailing.

Dom
Mark Moon (Enzomoon)
Member
Username: Enzomoon

Post Number: 293
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 12:16 pm:   

I use it exclusively although Pinnacle makes an excellent product as well. I use Ital followed by another coat of Concours. I am seriously contemplating bauying the Vintage as it is refillable for life, so as long as I live another 10 years it should be a good deal!! In short, the stuff is great! Just don't cofuse their cheaper supermarket blue wax with the real Zymol wax. It is marginal at best.

Regards,
Mark
Tyler (Bahiaau)
Intermediate Member
Username: Bahiaau

Post Number: 1037
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 12:14 pm:   

I used to be a Zymol fanatic, I've even used the Vintage. I've used Zymol Concours for years(Vintage was great, but not enough of a difference between it and Concours to justify the price). I've completely switched to CrystalGuard now and I love it. No going back for me. I understand that Zaino is pretty much the same stuff as CG though.
Marc Hartog (Hedge)
Junior Member
Username: Hedge

Post Number: 66
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 12:14 pm:   

http://www.autopia-carcare.com/p2pascarwax.html

Scrap the last Zymol question..found it - quite a bit cheaper too! Is this the one you use?
Marc Hartog (Hedge)
Junior Member
Username: Hedge

Post Number: 65
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 12:12 pm:   

Is that also a Zymol product?

Also, any idea how to politely remove the surface 'scratches' brought about by previous washing - I am talking about the circular type only really noticeable in direct sunlight.

Will a good wax do that or does it require a t-cut? I would be nervous using such a strong agent on the car..justified?

Thanks.
Jerry Fisher (Emtrey)
New member
Username: Emtrey

Post Number: 38
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 12:09 pm:   

I was using the Zymol carbon but I think
P21S is better...
Marc Hartog (Hedge)
Junior Member
Username: Hedge

Post Number: 64
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 11:59 am:   

Does anyone use Zymol products on their Ferrari?

It has been highly recommended to me by a friend with a Porsche 996 cabrio. Claims it is very expensive but worth every penny for the results.

This seems to be their offering relevant for F-cars:

http://www.zymol.com/ital2.htm

but if you want to be really crazy, you could try this one:

http://www.zymol.com/vintage2.htm - I'll take two tubs please..not! Do you think 'white carnauba' is another name for cocaine?

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