| Author | Message | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 613 Registered: 8-2001 |
The owner's manual says max torque (for the Mondial t) is at something like 4,2000 rpm and redline is at someting like 7,500 or 7,800. Will look up the exact numbers when I get a chance. Car revs free and smooth until the limiter kicks in. Appears to still have much power left when the limiter kicks in. I know many piston aircraft engines have to be ran at full power to properly break in. Then occassionally full power helps. | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Intermediate Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 1107 Registered: 4-2002 |
"The end results was that max torque is reached at redline and max torque produces max horsepower..." NO, No, no Max acceleration in any gear occur at peak TQ Max acceleration in a lower gear is always higher than max acceleration in a higher gear (below red line) Maximum acceleration through a set of gears occurs when the gears are shifted at redline (maximize the area under the power curve) f = M * a e = 1/2 * M * v**2 de/dt = P = M * v * a P/V = M * a = f Torque rules the lower speed range because P/V is nonsensical when V ~= 0. Torque causes acceleration! Torque pushes against the air at higher speeds. Power rules the upper speed range because P/V is independent of gearing! | ||
| Dave White (Dwhite)
Junior Member Username: Dwhite Post Number: 139 Registered: 5-2003 |
Des, I don't have the technical expertise to explain it, but i know many engines do not produce max torque at max HP, If you look at test results for engines, they will have HP and torque(max torque 325ftlbs at 4,200 rpm; max HP 375 at 5,900rpm. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6656 Registered: 8-2002 |
Dave, there was a HUGE thread about that a while back and a friend of mine did some major research into it, blah blah blah... The end results was that max torque is reached at redline and max torque produces max horsepower... i don't think you're 'juming' me, but you're a pretty smart fella, so i wouldn't mind going into this with you, in a little more detail... i'm always open to information and most people here know A LOT more about this type of stuff than i do, so i'm always ready to shut up and listen...  | ||
| Dave White (Dwhite)
Junior Member Username: Dwhite Post Number: 136 Registered: 5-2003 |
DES not juming on you, but redline is not always/seldom where max torque is. But the engine sounds better, do it all the time in the TVR. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Senior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 6648 Registered: 8-2002 |
i once (and very briefly) considered changing my last name to Redline... i redlined all the time in my Saturn... Did it in a few other cars, too, including some automatics with a slap stick... i love it... the car screams at redline and a proper shift just brings it home to start the whole thing over again... Redline is where max torque is pulled - but we won't get into that whole torque/horsepower thing again... | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3427 Registered: 6-2001 |
Rev limiters usually cut spark, not fuel. | ||
| Erik (Teenferrarifan)
Member Username: Teenferrarifan Post Number: 328 Registered: 2-2003 |
Tim won't the fuel cut off a few hundred rpm's past redline in order to save the engine. Erik | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3426 Registered: 6-2001 |
At least you dont have to worry about bending pushrods, like the covrvette guys do when they miss a shift. Theres nothing wrong with hitting the rev limiter in any car. just dont put it in 2nd drive on the highway bouncing off the limiter. I am curious what some engines can rev to before dropping a valve or spinning a bearing. One time my friend was driving his dad's Z3 and missed a shift, i forgot which shift, but it sent the tach over 8000rpms. that was over 4 years ago and the car has never had a problem, yet ive heard of stories where e36 M3's have blown up motors from missing shifts. i guess sometimes you just get lucky. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Intermediate Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 1042 Registered: 8-2002 |
Dave, the Digiplex is the ECU (computer). | ||
| Ermin Trevisan (Trevi)
Junior Member Username: Trevi Post Number: 183 Registered: 5-2003 |
the mondial t has a limiter. i have the same behaviour when i hit it. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 490 Registered: 8-2002 |
Missing a shift into a lower gear is where damage typically happens, usually valve to piston collision | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 610 Registered: 8-2001 |
What is a digiplex? | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 609 Registered: 8-2001 |
Thanks, Dave | ||
| Erin Patrick Pierce (Fulmina)
Junior Member Username: Fulmina Post Number: 115 Registered: 3-2002 |
P.S. That car looks good in white! | ||
| Erin Patrick Pierce (Fulmina)
Junior Member Username: Fulmina Post Number: 114 Registered: 3-2002 |
It is also possible that a digiplex is going out. Watch for it happening at lower RPMs. If a bank stops firing you will get that cut-out feeling and be dumping gas through the pipes. Not good- particularly with hot cats. I am probably being an alarmist, but thought I shoud mention it. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 607 Registered: 8-2001 |
Thanks for the info. What happened was that my mind was on something else. The Ferrari Mondial t was reving so effortlessly. Then all of a sudden the RPMs dropped, speeded up, dropped again, etc. I glanced down at the RPM guage and it was bouncing around red line. It behaved exactly as when I have bounced against a rev limiter in the past. I thought, "Damn, I did not know that shift Ferraris, especially the Mondial t, had rev limiters". Shifted and the car ran perfectly. Since it reved so effortlessly, I wandered if red line was really true. Car uses almost no oil - much less than Ferrari says it does. | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Member Username: Psk Post Number: 961 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dave, Go and do it again Only prolonged use above the redline will damage a motor ... or a massive spike well above, like missing a gear. Pete | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Intermediate Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 1092 Registered: 4-2002 |
You may have "fallen off the cam", in other words, the power out of the engine is so reduced that it feels as if it has been turned off. | ||
| David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
Member Username: Fastradio2 Post Number: 390 Registered: 4-2002 |
I thought the red line was the minimum shift point... You guys really do drive Ferraris...Right? | ||
| Lou B (Toby91)
Member Username: Toby91 Post Number: 324 Registered: 4-2001 |
I have had my 328 in the low 8000's many times with no problems. It loves to rev. My 512Tr and 360 both have rev limiters which are bounced off of frequently. Isn't that what they are for? | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Intermediate Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 1035 Registered: 8-2002 |
I've had my 308QV up into redline territory momentarily when shifting at track events. It's happened multiple times, no problem. | ||
| Bart Duesler (The_bart)
Member Username: The_bart Post Number: 353 Registered: 1-2003 |
My 550 stops at 7,800 rpms unless I turn the limiter off which I never do. I glad I have it because floating values is not a good idea. | ||
| Chris Horner (Cmhorner17)
Member Username: Cmhorner17 Post Number: 292 Registered: 4-2002 |
Hi Dave, The newer model Ferraris do have rev limiters, not sure about your Mondial though. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that it won't do any damage. I used to have a Grand Am GT with the Quad 4 motor and 5 speed, and redlined it A LOT! Sold it with 117k miles on it, never burned oil and ran fine. If a Grand Am could take it I'm sure your Ferrari can take it | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Intermediate Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 1015 Registered: 9-2002 |
I never redline. So I really need that extra 500 rpms? If not, thats slightly less wear then otherwise. No real reason to take it up on an older car. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 603 Registered: 8-2001 |
Yesterday on the Mondial t, I accidently hit red line. It acted as if it had a rev limiter on it. Do the Mondials have rev limiters? Do most Ferraris have rev limiters? Believe in keeping it under red line. However, many times people engineer safety margins into things. They seem to vary from 20 % to 100 %. What happens when one goes over red line (assuming the car will let you)? Do not believe it will fall apart due to an extra 100 rpm or whatever. |