| Author |
Message |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 8:39 am: | |
Willis, somehow I can't see a 288GTO racing down muddy roads , snow,ice and through the desert like you see the WSC cars do. |
martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 11:25 pm: | |
Thanks David,
Your right--I'll keep it! |
William H (Countachxx)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 10:07 pm: | |
Ernesto I think the Porsche pic was on http://www.supercars.net
The Modena seems to be a retro design based on the 250LM while the 550 is of course a retro of the Daytona |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 9:42 pm: | |
Frank,
The 288 GTO was supposed to race in Group B rallies in the 80s. The street GTOs were built to fulfill the homologation requirements. Group B was cancelled (something about spectators getting killed...) and we will never find out what the GTO would do in rally racing. |
Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 9:42 pm: | |
Where did you see a picture? |
William H (Countachxx)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 9:40 pm: | |
Man u wanna talk UGLY, I saw a pic of the Porsche Cayenne, they should call it Der Vomit Komet |
William H (Countachxx)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 9:40 pm: | |
Man u wanna talk UGLY, I saw a pic of the Porsche Cayenne, they should call it Der Vomit Komet |
Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 9:24 pm: | |
Frank, I was not referring to you specifically, or to comments regarding the 360 at the end of my post. But, some people here have said comments like the 348 was the "worst Ferrari ever," or the Mondial "is not a real Ferrari," something we all know is not true.
I doubt anyone would make comments like this when face to face with the owner of one of these, but somehow make then on a message board. I don't like people who critisize other people's things for no good reason other than to just critisize. But, hey, maybe its just me.
I have been into cars all my life and have been lucky enough to drive many Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Maseratis, etc etc, and finally am lucky enough to own one. And that's just how I feel... |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 9:05 pm: | |
Ernesto, you sure are sensative about your car. I never said the 360 is ugly, only that I don't like the front end. Hey, I don't like the interior of my own 348. I wish it had more leather on the doors. And the passive seat belts suck, but I still love the car. |
Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 8:57 pm: | |
The 360's front may be considered "ugly" by some, but at least they are funcional. I'd rather have ugly functional scoops than "pretty" scoops and spoilers that don't do a damn thing.
I love Ferrari so much because they aren't afraid to constantly try new things - new designs, new technologies, new configurations. And they haven't lost sight of their original vision.
Look at Porsche - all their cars look the same. Their new SUV will probably have the same headlights of the Boxter and 911. Talk about misdirection - they are building an SUV!
Look at Lamborghini. The awesome and clean Muira and 350GT. Then they build cars with flip-up doors and with 1,000 scoops, spoilers, and wings that serve no purpose, except maybe to draw crowds. Even the new Murcielago looks like a Diablo. Static companies that seem afraid to change.
Ferrari keeps it simple and straightforward. No gimmicks and spoilers. Everything funcional. I think we can all love and drive our cars without calling each others' rides "ugly" or "the worst Ferrari ever made."
Ernesto
Ferrari 360 Modena F1 |
david schirmer (David)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 8:51 pm: | |
Martin, after reading these postings, nobody will want the darn thing so you might as well keep it. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 8:16 pm: | |
I agree that the 360 is a marvel and is one of the best performing cars out there. And maybe I don't like it as much as the 355 or 348 because of its new design. Its really the front end that I don't care for. The TR, 348 and 355 all kept the traditional egg crate front grill, albeit fake. The 360 went with two functional grills that just don't look right to me yet. Maybe they will grow on me. Still, for almost the same money I would rather have the 550 than the 360 even though it is a newer design. But, we all have to admit we all seem to like the particular car we own whether it is a Ferrari or not. As far as the tail lights are concerned, I kinda like the TR and 348 rearend treatment although I admit the round is more traditional even though a lot of Ferraris from the 1950s didn't have round tail lights. As to the Asian cars and their big wings, they do that to look like World Rally Cars which is where they dominate all other cars including european ones. Has Ferrari ever competed in WRC races ? I don't really follow it enough to know. But, it is some great racing and I try to caught it on Speedvision when I can. |
martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 8:14 pm: | |
After reading some of these postings I HATE my UGLY 360! I will sell it tomorrow first thing.
Yuuchh! Vomitatious! |
Tim N (Timn88)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 6:53 pm: | |
How is anyone gonna compare a ferrari to a rice burner bc its rounded? I dont know what it is, but ferraris look good anyway. Rice burners have all those huge wings and stuff, ferraris dont need that. Also, bret, that "lower income" thing is great. Ferrari owners are humble and stuff, but every so often so condescending remarks slip out. dont worry, im not offended, i live in anything but a low income area (it probably is compared to where alot of u guys live) |
William H (Countachxx)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 5:23 pm: | |
the 355 is a beauty, the 360 is not.
I believe the 996 Turbo came out after the 360 & stole the 360's ugly front nostrils |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 4:12 pm: | |
You are all getting bend out of shape about this.
The 360 is a great marvel with lots of new ideas and lots of good new things that were implemented in this car. Just the legroom is phenominal for a Ferrari. Thanks Pinin!
As with all things it will take time to get used to it. Like the Testarossa and so many other things. I think the 360 will become a classic Ferrari just like all the others before.
Look at the past. The "ugly ones" today are classics. 365GT 2+2 etc. All well respected cars today. The 308/328 has followed in their foodsteps and the 348/355 will follow right after. Give it another 10 years and you will hear only good things about that car. The same car that was trashed when it was released and looked so much different as the 328.
Time will tell the difference. That is why we all love these cars.
Ferrari and Pininfarina have the courage to go to extremes and make them work. Thank God. The difference to the Ricer is the glass engine compartment eg. |
Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 3:51 pm: | |
When I was shopping for my first Ferrari a little over a year ago, I wanted a 355 even though the 360 had already come out. I had driven my uncle's 308, 328, 348, 355, and TR many times and felt the 355 was the best of them all.
Then I made the mistake of going to the dealer and driving a 360. Bad move. Suddenly all those models I previously mentioned feld so old. The 360 took the game to a whole new level. So I went for the 360. Now I drive a TR or 355 and it's just depressing.
Regarding the looks: hey, its all relative. When the TR came out, it was not universally loved. The shape never grew on me personally. But I still like the car - I guess Miami Vice made me like it even more. The 360 borrows heavily from the OLDER Ferraris, almost a homage to them. There are at least three models I can think of that link it to the past. But its shape is more "Ferrari" (if there is such a thing) than the TR or 348 because of the unfortunate styling cues Pininfarina made on them. Thankfully, the company grew out of it and went back to essentials on later models.
There are always people who don't take to new things quickly, like the design of the 550 and 360, F1 tranny, etc etc. Maybe like computers and cellphones. But, for whatever its worth, it is mainly the people with the older models that critisize. It takes time for people to get used to new things. Just drive your car and love it, whatever it happens to be. |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 3:37 pm: | |
True. I just wanted to tell you guys that I know I for one may criticize things about it, but I still love it. |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 3:32 pm: | |
I don't think getting "bent out of shape" is the right phrase for us 360 owners. It's more like defending the honor of our car. Look, if no one speak up for the 360, who will? |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 3:12 pm: | |
How come anytime something not complimentary (not necessarily negative, but not positive) is said about the 360, 360 owners get all bent out of shape? Insecure? I'm not referring to this post only, to all of them about trans, styling, engine, exhaust etc...
To all 360 owners --- for future reference we love the 360.
I personally like the 355 more, but I still love the 360, it's a Ferrari. There's a lot of love to go around for Fcars. It is somewhat of a change from the past so some people may find it harder to accept it, but that doesn't mean that we don't appreciate it. |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 10:43 am: | |
Tino,
Yeah, I forgot about the California design studios. Still, this doesn't bode well for those designers either. There's really nothing that looks original from the asian manufacturers. The Lexus LS430 looks just like the previous Mercedes S-class. Was that a California designed product?
At lease Pininfarina was bold enough to give the strakes and non-round tail lights a try. Also, what about the 5 pointed-star wheels? Didn't it all started when they appeared on the Daytona? It seems everyone has a variation of this wheel these days. |
tino stramotas (Bboxer)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 10:12 am: | |
For your information Willis, most, if not all the japanese designs come out of the hands of local California boys (nearly every japanese/korean manufacturer has their design studios on this side of the Pacific). Moreover, the Audi TT was designed by one of our very own Orange County boys. The original new Z concept was largely designed by a french girl here at Nissan's California studios. (The final product as you will see looks quite different).
PF has admitted in an interview that both the side strakes (TR/348) as well as the non-round tail lights (TR/348) were not really the right thing for Ferrari and effectively took them both off on later cars. |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 9:08 am: | |
Ferrari and Pininfarina pioneered a lot of styling cues. For instance, the Testarossa came out with the side strakes, it seems everyone was rushing to add that look to their cars.
Those drawings of future Japanese supercars in the magazines tell you one key thing. The Japanese stylists just can't come up with anything original. The new Nissan Z is basically a copy of the Audi TT.
I thought the Porsche Carrera GT look like a souped up Boxster. |
Mark (Study)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 1:14 am: | |
Willis- I agree I guess the 360 looks like some of the older Ferrari's. I guess retro car design seems to be the hottest thing. The new Ford ThunderBird, and Lexus SC430 prove that. I keep forgetting that I'm on the tail end of the Baby Boom Gen. and there are a lot of older people with spending power that must long for that retro look.
As for the Murcielago, yes its still wedge shaped but its become a puddgy rounded wedge instead of a sleek or thin wedge.
As for the Rice-Burners I don't like Nissan's new "Z" has that odd look like the Lexus. Not sure what to call it.
Don't get me wrong, I think the 360 looks great! (first non-wedge shaped car i've really liked).
I just noticed Ferrari had moved closer to 911 and wondered if anyone else saw the same thing.
Also when I saw Porsche Carrera GT V-10 at last years auto show. The car was so low and sexy it looked like it should have the Ferrari name plate on it. (did they ever decide to put that into production?)
And if you really want to get a jolt. You should see the new NSX for 2004. Guess what? looks just like the 360. If you can trust the few drawings that are showing up on Japanese Magizines already.
Toyko Auto show is this week. They are showing 2002 NSX but drawing of the all new 2004 are starting to show up. If its true they are almost exact.
Ferrari 360, Porsche 911, and NSX are all going for the best design in the wind tunnel.. I guess it only makes sence they will start to look more and more like each other?
I guess the wedge shape is like the mini-skirt. Two things I hate to see change when fashion trends move. (still dreaming of 70's Lotus Esprit and Bond girls in mini skirts... I guess i'm becomeing the retro guy). |
magoo (Magoo)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 12:27 am: | |
Just look around you when you are driving. All of the newer small Japanese sport cars have a rounded off look to them. Have you noticed the new Mercedes from the side it looks more common and is losing it's unique design where you don't have to look twice to tell what it is. Look at the Rolls or Bently they still stand out as being what they are. Ferrari's should be unique in my opinion and stand out on their own design. |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 12:11 am: | |
Hmm...When I think of "rice burners", wedges with wings comes to mind. Care to explain why rounded corners make a car a "rice burner", magoo? |
magoo (Magoo)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 12:02 am: | |
I know I'm going to be slaughtered when I say this but I feel we tend to think of a "Rice Burner" when the corners are rounded. There is a lot of that out there and the Ferrari needs to stand out as a special design that sets the trend not follows it. |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 11:44 pm: | |
The Murcielago is a wedge. Not rounded. |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 11:36 pm: | |
Check out the classic Ferraris, most of them will be of the round variety.
If you look at the 250LM and the 360 Modena side by side, there will be quite a few similarities. Also compare the 360 with the shapes of the 330PB and other Le Mans prototypes from the 60s and 70s. Criticize the 360 shape all you want but its shape is not without precedence.
The Modena is round because of aerodynamic considerations and Pininfarina's desire to get away from the wedge design (They've been doing wedges for nearly 3 decades). |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 11:24 pm: | |
Funny that you say that Mark, one of the kids from a lower income area just told me that in the ghetto they refer to the 360 (which is in a lot of rap videos) as the Ferrari With The Frog Eyes. I found it interesting because frog eyes to me always mean Porsche. I can see what you're saying about it. |
Mark (Study)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 11:22 pm: | |
Okay here's another one. Lamborghini's Murcielago is rounded. Looks like a Diablo had a few dozen too-many doughnuts. |
Mark (Study)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2001 - 10:43 pm: | |
I like both car's look. But just looking at an ad in DuPont Registry for a Dealer and noticed something. They had a 355, 360 and 911 Porsche all lined up. It looks like Ferrari cut the differance between 355 and 911 and came up with the 360 shape.
I've never liked the 911, too much of a bubble profile instead of the wedge shape profile that I love so much. Do you think Ferrari will continue to move towards rounded edges in design. I hope not. Nothings pointy anymore. I didn't like any of the new car designs I saw at last years auto show. Everything is either retro or round.
Anyone else think Ferrari moved closer to Porsche, and at the same time Porsche seems to be squashing down thier cars and making them look more sleek and low. Are the two approching the same shape? |
|