| Author | Message | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 845 Registered: 10-2001 |
Ross said it best- $250k, mid engine 12 = exotic. Something to go head-to-head with the Murcielago. Ferrari's 360 can compete with Galardo at $150k class but Ferrari with no production car that can beat the Murcielago. Its sad really to let Lambo have the $250k Dream car class all to them selves. I'd love a Murcielago vs Ferrari test. Come on Ferrari where is your V12 exotic for this market segment? Road & Track had to pick a Saleen S7 to run against Murci. for its 0-100-0 challenge. That would have been so much more fun if it was Ferrari vs Murci for the top slot. | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Intermediate Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 1101 Registered: 4-2002 |
RE: V10s; cars with an odd number of cylinders per bank have an undamped vibration pattern that engine with an even number of cyclinder per bank do not have. Think of a 120 degree inline 3 cylinder. The front piston and the rear piston cause the engine to oscilate in circular pattern front in one direction rear in another, out of phase with each other. Now think of a 4 cylinder inline 180 degree engine. The front and rear pistons go up and down simultaneously, so do the center pistons, thereby canceling out this vibration. V10 has this kind of problem and the crankshafts have "interesting" ballancing issues to minimize this vibration. V8s and V12 do not have this kind of vibration pattern. And, thus, I think Ferrari should stick with V8s and V12s. Aside: one might think that Porsche engines would be like 2 inline 3 cylinders; and from the outside they look the part, however each piston is on a unique throw 180 degrees from its "paired" piston. Thus each piston is cancelled by its opposing piston. And because this is a flat banking scheme, thereby, these engine do not have this kind of vibration pattern (either). | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Intermediate Member Username: Ross Post Number: 1323 Registered: 3-2002 |
doody you took the words out of my mouth: spider versions of both 456 and 575 would be amazing, especially if the tops were like the new sl - i don't care about the weight, nobody buys a convertible to break terminal velocity records. but the other car ferrari should make is a mid engine 12 to go head to head w/ the murci. a 512tr for the new millenium, with about 600hp and costing no more than $250k new. | ||
| neal (95spiderneal)
Member Username: 95spiderneal Post Number: 263 Registered: 3-2002 |
must be rear drive, mid engined but dont care about what type engine. must be small and light. must have superb styling and much improved maintenance. continue about 20% more $ than p turbo | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2650 Registered: 10-2002 |
WM It's not me. It's the babes. Have you found one who travels futher than 6 feet without a water bottle? | ||
| Jay Grande (Jay)
Intermediate Member Username: Jay Post Number: 1514 Registered: 10-2001 |
Ferrari should build less cars... | ||
| N'din (Abangdin)
Junior Member Username: Abangdin Post Number: 81 Registered: 7-2003 |
Front engine V12 will remain and with a spyder in the line-up. But I think Ferrari will slot in another model line with mid-engine V10 that's slightly larger than the current 360 and have the V8 slightly smaller than the current 360. The entry level V8 is the bread and butter model for Ferrari, so make this cheaper than current V8 and design the V10 to take on the Gallardo. But the production facilities at Ferrari is limited and with Luca putting on a ceiling for Ferrari's annual production of 5,000 cars, it is very difficult to see all these happening. But with increased competition Ferrari may have no choice but to expand it's production facilities and introduce new models. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1388 Registered: 10-2001 |
The Stradale is the answer to all my dreams thank you. | ||
| Ryan Alexander (Ryalex)
Junior Member Username: Ryalex Post Number: 116 Registered: 8-2003 |
I'm with Ron and Stephen saying a new version of the '67 California Spyder (my fav pre-70's Ferrari) - anyway, make it a 575 Spyder. I don't think they'll go back to the mid-mounted v-12 in their GT line for a while: Luca is all about the front-mounted (even though he's looking to move on soon apparently, his influence will no doubt resonate for years) (he also doesn't seem to like spoilers, hence no Enzo spoiler ala F40/50... but this is likely common knowledge here). Maybe he'd go for it if they called it the 575 Luca Spyder as a retirement tip of the hat. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 727 Registered: 11-2001 |
Will, I actually like the concept of plastic body part, really. No dents, no rust, and it's lightweight and easily replaced. About the massagin seats and room for six don't look like a place for a Ferrari especially when the Porsche came out with their version, man I hate that vehicle for all it's worth. | ||
| Johnny Bravo (Ben) (Johnny_bravo)
Junior Member Username: Johnny_bravo Post Number: 75 Registered: 7-2003 |
I totally agree about another Dino incarnation. Something along the lines of a Lotus Elise/Exige or Vauxhall VX220, but with a alloy V6, 5/6spd, and maybe not quite as stripped inside. It probably would be priced in the range of the Maser coupes, but the appeal is to a totally different demographic. At the top I agree the front mounted V12 is the way to go not only to embody the Ferrari heritage, but as others have mentioned for ease of engineering. The 456 (and it's upcoming replacement) has always been much more of a GT car than the 550/575 which aligns it with the MB SL's so I think it should have a convertible version (as I think it should have all along). A far more curvacious replacement for the 550/575 in the vein of any of the classic front engined V12 cars would be a great flagship, but it needs to drop a bit of weight IMHO. I think that may have been one of the reasons why a true convertible 550 was never produced as it would hampered performance as well as added yet more complications to an already relatively finickey car. The Barchetta looks great with the top off, but that pup-tent looking abomination they pass off as a tack on soft top just isn't gonna cut it next time. | ||
| Stephen A. Thompson, II (Sat4re)
Junior Member Username: Sat4re Post Number: 65 Registered: 2-2003 |
Back to one of my original comments...Why do you think it is that Ferrari doesn't offer a spyder version of its flagship V-12's? Seems so obvious. Think of how classy it would be to be driving Ferrari's best offering (once again - not talking about their supercar) in ragtop form! To me, that would be the ultimate in pure mega-buck fun! | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3164 Registered: 2-2001 |
How about a car with plastic body parts, comfortable seating for 6, cupholders, massagin seats, entertainment system in back & room for a few soccer balls ?!?! Yeah, thats the ticket | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 841 Registered: 10-2001 |
I wish they'd put the Enzo into production. Manufactoring target 5,000 cars over 5 years. Dealer price $299,000 (economies of scale) At the moment, Enzo gets the car worlds biggest prick-tease award. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Intermediate Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 1016 Registered: 6-2002 |
Yes they should continue to build boredom. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Intermediate Member Username: T88power Post Number: 1742 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ferrari should just continue to evolve the current cars, they are fine. Keep adding HP slowly and keep current designs, dont follow trends like the others... An F1-derived V10 360 successor would be nice, with 7spd F1 tranny and keep weight below 3,000 pounds, RWD only (no AWD). No flip up doors or other gimmicks. Ernesto | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Intermediate Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 1009 Registered: 6-2002 |
How about a 2 seater, mid engine v-12, that is styled like the Enzo, can run gear for gear with the Murcielago and not cost 3x the price? Than it would be safe to say, id want both. | ||
| Me Myself (Kid_enzoz)
Junior Member Username: Kid_enzoz Post Number: 166 Registered: 4-2003 |
How about a car like the Rosso concept but with a convertable hard top? Only a bit more luxurious. They could use the Enzo engine. And have a 'GTO' version with a fixed hardtop, sporty interior with bucket seats and harnesses. Both with a six speed stick. Add AWD. And a mid engined V12 car to compete with the Murcielago. Give it the same motor as the front engined car but with a power and torque boost, F1 shifters too. Make the doors open like the Enzos. And give it the same type of tail lights. Add AWD. Make it the new TR. And to go along with those they should have a Dino. Light weight and sporty. All kinds of options available. From V6 engines to V8s and V10s. Traditional manuals to F1 paddle shifters. Custom suspensions. Different brake options. Oh... and they should improve on that Maserati 4x4 and sell a bunch of 'em. | ||
| Lou B (Toby91)
Member Username: Toby91 Post Number: 329 Registered: 4-2001 |
A modern 246 sounds great but wouldn't it be priced below the 360 level and compete with the Maserati. Why would Ferrari do that? Isn't their game Enzo super max class, 575 V12 class, 360 V8 or V10 maybe class and lower tiers Maserati? | ||
| Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Moderator Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 2573 Registered: 8-2002 |
WM, I agree. A no-frills 12cyl beast; basically a modern 250SWB/275 GTB. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1651 Registered: 12-2001 |
A "De-Contented" 12 cyl. street legal car that doesn't require hereditary wealth to acquire. Dump all the extra fat, lean and mean, but put a conventional stick in it, not the paddles.Bet that would even please Allan Lambo. (PS: Jim: You must be getting old. Cup holders in a Ferrari?) | ||
| Bert Kanters (Bert308)
Junior Member Username: Bert308 Post Number: 130 Registered: 11-2002 |
Mid engine, screeming 3.0 V8 with 350HP at 8500 rpm, 1100 kg or less and available with targa-top. A modern version of the 308GTS. | ||
| Stephen A. Thompson, II (Sat4re)
Junior Member Username: Sat4re Post Number: 64 Registered: 2-2003 |
I like James' and Terry's ideas. Like Terry, I've said on a couple of posts that a modern 246 Dino would be an instant success (at least for me). Some styles never go out. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Advanced Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 3018 Registered: 9-2001 |
As I have posted before, Ferarri should take over Alfa and use it for a line of V6 roadster type cars. It could bring back the Dino name and use it for a new line of mid-engined V8 sports type cars. The flagship model would have 12 cylinders front engine and create a new mid-line model with a mid-engine V10. Let Maserati keep the V8s too for their cars. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 809 Registered: 4-2002 |
I want a new coupe model styled as closely along the lines of the 246GT as possible. With covered headlights.... Make it as small as is possible. Build it on an all aluminum chassis with bonded carbon fiber panels. Give it the coming 4.2 V8 with 6 speed trans.... tuned to 450hp minimum. No power windows. Pull strap door handle. No power options of ANY kind... except A/C. No radio standard. No sound deadening, no undercoating, lexan windows, minimal instrumentation, as stripped down as is humanly possible. No luxury items and cheap materials used everywhere it does not compromise performance. Target weight 2400lb. This base sports model lightweight should be marketed as the Ferrari 420GT Dino. Price it at $120K.... aimed directly at the Porsche GT3. Outsource the production as Porsche did with the Boxster. Build it and market it as a pure, no-nonsense sportscar for the hardcore performance minded. Ferrari could sell 1500+ of these per year no problem! | ||
| Gil Lucero (Exotic_car_guy)
New member Username: Exotic_car_guy Post Number: 31 Registered: 4-2003 |
Keep it a V-12, naturally aspirated. We need something to get the Ferrari excitement back at the Maranello price point. Lamborghini and other marques are generating all the buzz these days. Gil | ||
| thomas daniels (Castex)
Junior Member Username: Castex Post Number: 98 Registered: 6-2003 |
I'd rather like to see a six-cylinder, elise-gobbling mini-enzo. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2641 Registered: 10-2002 |
Should look like a 250GTO NART Spyder. Have big honking V12 in front, transaxle in rear like 275. Have nav system, luggage space, storage space, cup holders, sat radio, remote cd, and 20K oil changes and service intervals like my wife's turbo Cayanne. | ||
| Lou B (Toby91)
Member Username: Toby91 Post Number: 326 Registered: 4-2001 |
What about super or turbocharging? Four wheel drive to better put the power down and provide more margin for error? | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Intermediate Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 1016 Registered: 9-2002 |
a 6.75L 12...with over 100 hp per liter...good torque....and used in the sub-enzo models. A F675TR....heavenly.  | ||
| Clax (Clax)
Junior Member Username: Clax Post Number: 128 Registered: 10-2002 |
360-esque Spider with a V12 (with 600hp+). | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Advanced Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 3162 Registered: 2-2001 |
I'd like to see a P4 for the road How about a 57 pontoon Testa Rossa retro for the road also | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Intermediate Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 1094 Registered: 4-2002 |
"Will they ever revert back to the mid-engine configuration?" Probably not for a while, the front engined cars are a more reasonable design point for GT driving. "Will they lose the V and go back to a flat lay-out?" While the BB and TR were excellent cars; they were uncompetitive in the CoG department. The flat engine over the transmission gives a compact engine bay architecture, at the cost of a high CoG. The crankshaft of a TR (for example) is about the height of the heads on a F355 engine. A flat engine architecture is harder to get as low as a V engine architecture due to the headers. In addition, at least for race cars, the narrow V engines provide bigger spaces for underbody aerodynamics to be employed. I, too, would like to see the return of the 12s to more trace orriented vehicles (e.g. mid engined). However the length of the 12 is a tough packaging problem when CoG and underbody aerodynamics rules the show. | ||
| Stephen A. Thompson, II (Sat4re)
Junior Member Username: Sat4re Post Number: 63 Registered: 2-2003 |
Ryan - I understand your point. I mean, I'm in love with my 308, and like you, fell in love with it as a kid. But, the more I've learned about Ferrari's over the years, the more I've become fascinated with that classic, front V-12. To see that long nose, those swooping curves, and the top down....wow! That's what they need!!!! | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 937 Registered: 2-2002 |
I agree with Doody. | ||
| Ryan Sabga (Sherpa23)
Junior Member Username: Sherpa23 Post Number: 154 Registered: 5-2003 |
I would really like to see a mid engine 12 cylinder, maybe an evolution of the Boxer (although the TR was supposed to be that). While the front engine 12 cylinder has such historic significance for Ferrari, I personally have not been that interested in owning one. Like many of us who grew up in the late 70's and 80's, mid engine cars were what really sparked my passion for cars, the Countach and 308 specifically. As a result, mid engine cars will probably always have an appeal to me that front engine cars won't, no matter how well engineered, powerful, cool, etc. That's not to say I would not buy a front engined Ferrari, just that I would look at the mid engined cars first. Therefore, a mid engine 12 cylinder would be something that I would really like to see. | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Intermediate Member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 1066 Registered: 5-2002 |
Stephen, I feel we are long over due for a modern Cali Spyder. I don't feel they may go with rear v-12 for a while because of the BIG improvements from the 512 to the 550.. I think your idea for coupe and convertible options is a must. Now more than ever.. And when it comes to engines, I think we will see a V10 for street use.. something to keep the Viper and the new M5 and M6 at bay.. | ||
| Stephen A. Thompson, II (Sat4re)
Junior Member Username: Sat4re Post Number: 62 Registered: 2-2003 |
Just to be clear, I'm not referring (possibly incorrectly) to the F-40's, 50's, Enzos, etc. as the flagship cars. I am referring to the top-end models like the Testarossa's, 550's, 575's... Mr. Doody - I completely agree with you. Why they would only produce spyders with their 8-cylinder line is beyond me. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1634 Registered: 8-2001 |
How about a car with F1 inspired V10? | ||
| Matt (Matt_lamotte)
Member Username: Matt_lamotte Post Number: 612 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'm not really sure what is next after the Enzo as far as there flagship car. As soon as you begin to think they are at the limit of street legal design they push the envelope that much further. I like the rear engine V12 design and the only thing I could think I'd like to see is one that can rev as high or close to the F1 cars. If you could somehow incorporate that into a reliable street car I think the performance numbers would increase tremendously as well as the sound of the engine. I am really clueless as to what could be next but I am waiting to see. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1786 Registered: 11-2001 |
i think they are leaving substantial money on the table by not producing drop-top versions of the twelves. if a 575 Spider was in the mix, they wouldn't be having the (minimal, but still not zero) problems they're having moving new maranellos. and i'd bet money it probably would have helped out the end of the 456 tenure as well. doody. | ||
| Stephen A. Thompson, II (Sat4re)
Junior Member Username: Sat4re Post Number: 61 Registered: 2-2003 |
I'm looking forward to seeing Ferrari's future flagship sportscar offerings. How long will they continue with the front-engined V-12? Will they ever revert back to the mid-engine configuration? Will they lose the V and go back to a flat lay-out? Will they eventually change the number of cylinders? Going forward, I would like to see Ferrari stay with the front-engined V-12, but I would like to see them produce a practical spyder version alongside the coupe (unlike the 550 Barchetta). I would love to see something reminiscent of the 250 California Spyder. What do you want to see? |