| Author | Message | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 2144 Registered: 1-2001 |
Same suggestion Marc -- check your corresponding version 328 OM (and there's a bunch of different 328 OMs!): From a 1986 328 OM (on the Owners website)  From a 1988 328 OM (on the Owners website)  Don't know if the engines are really different or if they just backed off on what they thought the minimum fuel RON should/could be. | ||
| Marc Hartog (Hedge)
Junior Member Username: Hedge Post Number: 93 Registered: 6-2003 |
Thanks Steve. Would you recommend the 98 super or 95 normal stuff? | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 2143 Registered: 1-2001 |
Unleaded vs leaded fuel shouldn't be a concern for your 328 Marc -- your F heads already have the same separate hardened valve seats used in the (unleaded) US version (and the exhaust on a car set-up for leaded is OK with unleaded -- but not the other way around). It is amazing how "raw" emission-wise some '80s GB versions are compared to the US versions (same on the TR). | ||
| Marc Hartog (Hedge)
Junior Member Username: Hedge Post Number: 92 Registered: 6-2003 |
I will have a look, thanks. Is it likely to have been converted though? As far as I am aware, there was no unleaded petrol available in the UK in 1988/9 - only leaded four star. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 2142 Registered: 1-2001 |
Marc -- The required fuel octane rating will be shown in the corresponding OM for your version 328 (and probably in the RON units that you are used to). | ||
| Marc Hartog (Hedge)
Junior Member Username: Hedge Post Number: 91 Registered: 6-2003 |
ok, in simple terms, what petrol should I be putting in my 328 GTS? Unleaded or super unleaded? So far (had it 3 weeks) been putting in superunleaded. I am in the UK - I believe that 'normal' unleaded is 95 octane and super is 98. Thanks. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 610 Registered: 4-2003 |
Be careful when you are disscussing octane ratings. The method of dtermining octane rating at the pump is as follows: R+M/2, where R=research and M=Motor. This equation gives you an average of research and motor. For those who are curious, research is the higher number, while motor is the lower number. Motor is the octane rating in a "Real Life" situation (ie, the octane rating under a specified heat and load). Sometimes people say it is X octane, but that likely is research. Gas companies are not stupid when it comes to marketing. They will post the highest (research) number as that is how they get you to pay $5+ per gallon. Again, the next time you are at the pump, read the little sticker (R+M/2). The average of research and motor is what that means. | ||
| Steve M (Steve308gtsi)
Junior Member Username: Steve308gtsi Post Number: 149 Registered: 5-2002 |
I went past that 76 station last week. I think I might try mixing some of the 100 octane with the 91 premium we have here. I used to be able to get 94 at the pump back east but here the highest we have is 91. I have been hesitant to turn up the boost on my 935 since only 91 is available. | ||
| John B (John_b)
Junior Member Username: John_b Post Number: 62 Registered: 5-2003 |
Octane is an extremely misunderstood topic. You shouldn't bother with high octane fuels (greater than 94) unless you have either 1) an engine built specifically to run on them, i.e. high compression (over 12:1) and very advanced ignition timing. or 2) An engine management system with a feedback loop that keeps advancing ignition timing until it senses detonation, Without either one of these two things you will spend more money and actually make LESS power. High octane fuels have a lower specific energy than low octane fuels. i.e. they burn slower and cooler. to get the most power out of a standard, stock engine you should use the lowest octane that does not detonate (ping) under load. | ||
| J R K (Kenyon)
Member Username: Kenyon Post Number: 898 Registered: 10-2002 |
In the UK its SHELL OPTIMAX that 100 octane. The is much more responsive... | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 622 Registered: 6-2001 |
Thanks Jon. look forward to seeing you at Pocono. From then on I'll be jonesing until Cavallino. Actually I think the Classic guys have been using 104 unleaded in the Challenge car. The one day we ran out of race gas at the Glen and used pump gas I really didn't notice much of a difference. I guess the ECU is very good at changing the ignition timing, etc. to compensate. For the street cars it's Sunoco 94, and it does make a difference in the Dino, but not in the Spider. | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Intermediate Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 1121 Registered: 4-2002 |
I can get 104 unleaded and 96 unleaded at TWS. Interesting thing is that race gas semlls so different than pump gas. What follows is my history with my F355 over 2 years of experience. Everybody's millage will vary! I have tried several mixtures from 80%+ race gas to 5% race gas mixed with 93 octane pump gas (typically Chevron). I have run versions of the experiment several times. For whatever reasons, my car seems to want a little more octane than pump gas, aledgely 93 (Chevron and Texico). On no-name 93 octane I get irregular slow down indications in the first 30 minutes of any trip and none therafter. On pump only, this occures only 1/4 as often as on no-name. However, 1 gallon of 104 with 16 gallons of 93 and the car never misses a beat. I would guess this to be 93.7 octane, so some piece of the cars tune has become a little octane sensitive. Continuing; as octane increases from 94 through 96 the sharpness of each (part throttle) cylinder firing becomes muted and the sewing machine 'engine' noises are easier to pick out. I attribute this to the smoother buildup and release of pressure in the cylinder between compression and power strokes. From 96 octane upwards, I can hear no continuation in tonality. The actual thrust of the engine is not usefully different, however it takes throttle at (a triffling) lower revs on higher octane, but give less umph at the top end (negligible). Certainly there is no gain in power. The car comes to stable idle faster from a cold start with 'enhanced' gas. Now whether this comes from the octane rating or the chemical soup of race gas is a different matter altogether. Is it worth it? Not if you are looking for HP (unless you retune the engine to the gas). However, worth is in the ear of the beholder..... | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Intermediate Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 1084 Registered: 6-2002 |
I dont think you need to run 110 in a street car, 100 is plenty. The station is on the corner of 56th st and Bell. Its a 76 station. Also the Mobil off Indian Bend and the 101 at the Pavillions has race gas. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 932 Registered: 2-2003 |
Picture of a modified 360 Challenge at FX Performance.  | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Intermediate Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 1073 Registered: 8-2001 |
Solly, No cats on my 355. Some 95 Challenge cars have street legal exhausts with cats but I never installed mine since I never drive it on the street. The stock 355 "street" ECU's were re-programmed at Ferrari of Washington when the car was converted to a Challenge car with FNA's Challenge updated software. Check with the guys at Wide World or Shelton but I think you can run the same in your car. Make sure you clear it with them first though. By the way will be at Pocono afterall. Decided to skip the Glen this week and run the FCA event next week instead. Couldn't pass up the opportunity to attempt to top the car out on the banking. See you there! Regards, Jon | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 620 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jon- you put leaded 110 gasoline in the 355 Challenge? Doesn't that screw up the engine and cats? Can the ECU handle leaded gasoline? Aren't the heads and valves set up for unleaded? I'd love to run 110 in the 360 if possible. | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Member Username: Beast Post Number: 378 Registered: 5-2003 |
Jon; I depends on who produces the Race Fuel VP, Sunoco, Trick, 76, NuTek ....... I have used Trick 108 unleaded in my racing Jet Skis That formula was designed for 2 stroke applications The main problem with the stuff in a pump is that you are not sure who made the stuff and how long it has been in the tank. I know that NuTek once the drum has been opened it only has so long before it will sour, Since they inject a blanketing agent into the drum to protect the fuel from oxidation. Rob Guess "The Other Rob" | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Intermediate Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 1072 Registered: 8-2001 |
Rob, Yeah I seem to recall something being said about the cats being fried. Never heard of 108 Octane but 110 is fully leaded race fuel. 100 is unleaded, not sure about 108. I have never noticed any difference between 100 and 110 in the Challenge car. I buy 110 because it's only 25 cents more (already paying $5 gallon at the track). It sure smells nice though. Thanks for the explenation! Regards, Jon | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 732 Registered: 5-2002 |
Make sure the pump doesn't say "not legal for street use" or "for off road use only". If it does, it might be leaded fuel or it could just mean they aren't charging highway tax. We had a couple stations near my old house that were like that. One sold unleaded race gas (104 i think), the other had leaded Avgas (about 118 if I recall). At both places, you had to put it in a can, they would not let you pore it in your tank on there property. | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Member Username: Beast Post Number: 376 Registered: 5-2003 |
Allan; Where in Scottsdale????? It sure beats having to drive almost to AJ to get fuel from my current source since i live on the west side of Phx. | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Intermediate Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 1082 Registered: 6-2002 |
In Scottsdale you could buy 100 octane at the pump. $5.00 a gallon! Id run it in the Lambo sometimes. You can definately feel a difference in throttle response between 100 and 91 octane. | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Member Username: Beast Post Number: 375 Registered: 5-2003 |
Jon; As long as the race fuel is unleaded it should pose no problem for the emmission equipment. The key factor here is not to run 100 % race fuel in a closed loop system unless it is tunned for it AKA F1 car. What will happen is since the fuel burns so slow the o2 sensor will tell the ECu that the engine is runing rich and then lean out the mixture causing potential for burning pistons or overheating the CAT. If they sell race fuel at the pump and it goes into the filler neck of a modern F.I. car it has to be unleaded since leaded fuel has to run a larger pump nozzle that will not fit into a unleaded filler neck. Rob Guess "The Other Rob" | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Intermediate Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 1071 Registered: 8-2001 |
Rob, Doesn't it also cause problems with the O2 sensor and catalytic converters. Some reason I recall a the guy pumping gas at our local track telling a ZO6 owner not to put 110 in a car with emmissions equipment. Regards, Jon P. Kofod 1995 F355 Challenge #23 www.flatoutracing.net | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Member Username: Beast Post Number: 373 Registered: 5-2003 |
Anthony; Not a problem any time. Rob Guess "The Other Rob" | ||
| Anthony R. Jacobazzi (Ajacobazzi)
New member Username: Ajacobazzi Post Number: 31 Registered: 8-2003 |
Rob, Thank you very much. You couldn't have answered my question any better. | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Member Username: Beast Post Number: 369 Registered: 5-2003 |
Anthony; There are some stations that sell Race fuel out of the punp. The main issue is if your car does not need that high of an octane # you will not cause any damage to the engine but you will also not get any added horsepower. In fact you could lose power from running it since it will not be completely burnt before the piston no longer gets pushed down by it. At the F-chat dinner in Indy, we were talking about this very subject. In a nut shell run the lowest octane rating that your motor will allow without detonation. If You need a little more than super unleaded add a few gallons of race gas on top of the pump gas and you should be fine Rob Guess "The Other Rob" | ||
| Anthony R. Jacobazzi (Ajacobazzi)
New member Username: Ajacobazzi Post Number: 24 Registered: 8-2003 |
Gordo, It's a very rare find. I came across a Sunoco or Coastal gas station that has it. I believe it's 108 octane. I know where the station is, but I can't remember the name. I'll drive by there tomorrow and let you know what I find. The only other station I saw it was in Chicago when I was a kid. Use to go there all the time. | ||
| Gordo A. (Gordo)
Junior Member Username: Gordo Post Number: 209 Registered: 2-2003 |
Anthony, I wasnt aware that you could get anything from the pump over 100 octane in the US, thought the highest was around 95??? If you use the search engine on the site and try things like 'octane' 'shell' 'optima' there are loads of threads on the subject. The upshot is from what I understand, if you can get it run it! | ||
| Anthony R. Jacobazzi (Ajacobazzi)
New member Username: Ajacobazzi Post Number: 21 Registered: 8-2003 |
Is there any harm in using a high octane fuel from a gas station? I,m refering to over 100 octane. |