| Author | Message | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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Interesting point Christiank, never thought of that. Must be my American ethnocentrism coming thru.  | ||
| Christian Kienle (Christiank)
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Jeffrey: I think the fact that it was delivered in Canada first adds value to the car as you can easily sell it both in Canada and the US if you ever want to. Christian | ||
| Valentino Beltrame (Tino)
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Here's an idea: Why don't you get rid of BOTH those a$$-engined, NAZI slot cars and get your wife a beautiful 360 Modena with the F1 transmission (far superior to Porsche's tip system) and get yourself a 550. As to the 550, I'd wait until the perfect deal comes along. Prices are dropping and more cars are on the market everyday. No need to get anything other than exactly what you want. | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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Jeff: This is no longer only a financial decision its a gut decision. Personally, if you do not feel that you are getting the up and up then its not worth the purchase. Its not a US car and thus you should not be paying US prices. May explain the lower price below fair value that Dan West talked about. The VIN does not match up with the car's original destination it seems and that by definition diminishes its value. If I found that on my TR's carfax that would be a problem in my book. And this car is 2X as much as the TR so you do have more possible downside which cannot be good. One of the reasons I got my TR was the fact if there was a problem I could drive right down to the previous owners houses and say "What the F#$*" . We all live within 15 miles of each other. Too many good cars out there for you to be stuck with a potential problem with no remedy available. My advice -- keep looking. | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
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Well, the plot thickens and I'd like the communitiy's input again. am just beginning to get in to the Ferrari market. As I mentioned in the previous post, I've gone out and seen and driven the car, had it checked by a certified F-car mechanic and everything seems fine. Although the salesperson represented the car as a US car, in checking up further I noted that the carfax report began at 1600 miles and in tracking the car down past that point, it turns out that it is a Canadian car that apparently has had the instrument cluster swapped out. Without accusing anyone, I conveyed this to the salesperson who professed his astonishment. Additionally, the Canadian people say that, since the car was sold by FNA, I should have no trouble getting it worked on and there is probably not "diminished value." I was curious, considering your experience and expertise, what you make of the situation and what your advice would be in going ahead with the deal. While it is possible that the salesperson didn't know (the VIN does indicate that it SHOULD have been a US car), I have trouble with his credibility at this point. On the other hand the car does check out and I was interested in your opinion of the car's relative worth and road worthiness for the US market. Thanks for any help you might be able to offer. | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
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Well, I'm back from seeing and driving the red 550 and it was everything the dealer said it would be. Very, very clean: it checked out almost perfectly in an inspection by an experienced Ferrari mechanics: just a dead switch that's already ordered. Cosmetically and mechanically the car seems new, both to me (untrained eye) and the mechanic (26 years experience in Ferraris). The dealer offered me a great price that's allowed me to drop my price on the '97tt to about 74K and I've got two guys coming down to see the car on Monday. Assuming one of those deals goes through, it looks like a 550 will be joining the party! While I agree with most of the reasons for keeping the 993, a promise is a promise, and if I buy the Ferrari one of the turbos has to go-and it will be the one my wife can't drive. I can't get too upset-and if I do I can always drown my tears by taking a ride in the 550. | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
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Don't sell the'97. 993 style tts are rare enough; the last year of air-cooled engine and classic body style means they will be more desirable than the 996 liquid-cooled cars. Keep the 993, watch it appreciate in a few years to a greater extent than the 996 ever will, and enjoy your new 550. As mentioned above, you can always buy the 996 back in a few years at a fraction of today's selling price. I have kept my 993 for precisely this reason, and purchase my Ferraris around it. | ||
| Peter Connolly (Mondial_32_Aus)
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Deal 1 sounds like a winner if you have to buy right now, but then with Fcar prices starting to fall quite markedly, I would wait until you see the bottom of the short term market, maybe in 6 mths Deal 1 will only require $40-50K cash. PC In Oz but keeping up with US Fcar $ value trends. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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Trying to get me in trouble Jim? I bet you are. I like deal #1. Ferrari looks good in silver, but Ferrari red if that's your only Ferrari and you have 3 dozen silver cars. Red 550, 996tt, and a happy wife. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
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Assuming all is right with the car, $10 says he buys the red one. If someone takes my bet, does it make Rob a bookie? | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
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Thanks to all: here's where we stand. I've arranged for the red car to be inspected by a long time Ferrari mechanic who preps the local club's challenge cars. I've been able to research him pretty thoroughly on the web and he looks very, very capable. My plane reservation is made for Friday morning and I'll be driving the car that afternoon. If the car checks out and I like it in red-I can make a final decision on Friday evening, hopefully over a great dinner, then back home in time to see a play with my wife on Saturday afternoon. I haven't written off the silver car completely but the dealer is applying a lot of pressure and I have no intention of making a deal on the silver before I see (and drive) the red in person. Interesting.....the dealer with the silver is making a huge point of how difficult it will be for me to arrange for a dealer-independent, qualified inspection, but at no time during this entire process hs he offered to arrange one for the silver car, probably becuase it is still under warranty. But that leads to a big gap in the credibility factor for me! Thanks also to Danny R. West for the objective data. I'll keep you posted and hopefully I'll be joining the ranks before next week. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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To sum it up, the whole point that swayed me is keeping your wife happy too because then she will be able to enjoy all this with you which is really important. Like Frank said, let someone else take the depreciation. Like William said, don't trust anybody. I saw a red 550 and I thought the thing looked damn good. Someday I would like to get a 550 and I will get it in red. I will admit that titanium and grigio are very good looking cars, but there's nothing like a red Ferrari, especially the flagship. In pictures I'll say grigio is the nicest, in person, especially when driving by, hands down for the red. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
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I would go with Deal 1. Let someone else eat most of the depreciation. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Keep us posted next week. | ||
| Danny R. West (Dan_West348ts)
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Deal 1 is priced under a "fair" rating in the current CPI guide by $5000.00. Deal 2 is priced exactly as a "fair" rated car, if the car is a 2000 model year for $200,000.00. $190,000.00 with a warranty seems like a good deal to me. Dan | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
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After listening to you all I've decided I'm going to have to go out and see the car and be there when the inspection is done. I also have a few misgivings about how the car will look in red although the 550 is understated enough so that in silver (and I have 4 silver cars already) I find it a little boring. Guess I'll be flying this Friday and Saturday. By the way, a new 550, after dealing with the luxury and gas guzzler taxes is about $225,000, so the first deal car is really at a substantial discount (65,000 depreciation in 3-4 years, even with only a couple of thousand miles!). Thanks to you all! | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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The Deal 1 sounds better although I am not a fan of red 550s. I think that car looks much better in silver. Maybe you should wait another two weeks and keep on looking for the right car. To me both are not great deals. The difference of 2700 Miles is about 4-5 weekend rides through the country side. Is that worth $40K? The warranty, although nice to have but not enough to justify the higher price. Isn't the 550 coming with F-1 this year? That would be a great way to allow your wife to enjoy the car as well. I think buying a Ferrari is a decision that you should do with your wife. It makes life so much easier if you included her in that process. How much is the 550 retail anyway? You should be able to pick them up at the dealer now with no waiting list and no premium. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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97TT is sweet car & silver too, Nice. Hell I'd buy it off u if I didnt have 4 cars to rebuid right now DO NOT take the word of the dealer. Get both 550s checked out my an independent mechanic or u may be Very sorry later on. & Get everything the dealer says to u in writing, signed & dated | ||
| James Angle (Jimbo74)
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What ever you do, keep the tiptronic porsche. It will keep the lady happy. | ||
| Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
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I was to Stockholm 2 weeks ago and visited local Ferrari dealer. There was a 550 -97 silver for 1 million Sek = les than 100.000$. Nothing special, this is the price level in Sweden. | ||
| Chris Tanner (Ctanner)
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I lean towards deal 1. But do not buy it without looking at it. A 1000 mile difference is not worth $40K. Once you look at the car in Deal 1, you can decide to either buy it, or find out where the dealer wholesaled the car from Deal 2, and buy that one. It will still be forsale. I think you should consider yourself a rare breed these days, as a capable buyer of a 550. Not as many of those as there used to be, so you have some barginning power. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
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Although I have never driven any Porsche/Ferrari, from what I hear, the 993 is a much better car- and I happen to like it alot more. I am sure it is a lot more fun also, but, if you are getting a pure sports car in the 550, you can use the 996 as a daily driver. I can't believe I am saying this, but get rid of the 993, go for the 550 | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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Deal 1, hands down. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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with either one of your deals you really cant go wrong. How patient are you? you could wait for prices to drop. | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
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Regarding purchase of the tip: it was a compromise. My wife was in a bad car accident and lost a leg. You can't shift with a prosthesis so, when I went for the second turbo, it was with the proviso that she could drive it. But it's not as bad as I expected. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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Im not sure what u would do if i was in your position because i would never be in it. I say this because i would never buy a 996tt in automatic. That is should be considered sacriligous. it was your choice, so thats ok. I really wouldnt know what to do. The 97 993tt ios a great looking car that is fast, so i wouldnt want to get rid of it and the 01 is brand new and still has a waranty which u will lose out on. But the 550 in deal #1 is a 97, thats the first model (i'm pretty sure, but might be wrong) year so there may be problems with it. And the 996 is auto, so for i wouldnt have as much of a hard time giving it up for a 550. So i would go with deal 2. Keep in mind i have absolutely no idea what im talking about, so minimal, attention should be paid to my opinion. Im only 17 and i havent driven many cars (mostly my parets 3 cars and my friends cars bc they are to lazy/impaired to dirve)the fastest car ive drivin is a 12 sec. camaro, the best handling and most fun car ive driven was an s2000 (dont start, we already went over this a few months ago) | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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I like deal 1 better. If you are going to drive the car you gain much with a 100 mile car over a 2800 mile car in one year. If you really drive it a lot then in one year the car in deal 2 will be close to that of deal one. In my book you will be paying 4,000 per month for one year to end up with the same value car. The warranty is only 8 months so that's like an expensive premium for protection that disappears in less than a year. Plus with the money you save you can pick up another 97tt for 40,000 in a couple years. Then you'll have all 3 cars. BTW -- find your own inspection mechanic -- and take the time to go see the car. | ||
| Patrick S. Perry (Psp1)
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Jump on the redeye and go see the 2,000 mile car - it sounds like the better package, but I'd be reluctant to buy without even seeing it first. | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
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An interesting choice ..advice please I've been looking for a Ferrari for a while now and have my eye on two cars, both 550s. Each 550 (I'm only going to get one) would involve trading one of my two Porsche twin turbos, both silver with boxster red leather; my '97 993tt with 27,000 miles and my 2001 (800 miles) 996tt (a tip so my wife can drive it). Here are the potential deals. Deal 1. A car 2000 miles away priced at $160,000. A '97 with only 2800 miles on it, sold by a reputable dealer who swears there are no issues with the car. I trust the guy but am not able to get out and see or drive the car. Nevertheless, I believe that this is the "real deal" and that he will stand behind his merchandise. He can arrange for an inspection if I wish but I have no way of knowing if it will occur. Nevertheless, this guy has an impeccable reputation so he can be trusted-he was a Ferrari mechanic/service manager for 15 years and vouches for the car. He'll take my '97tt in trade + $83,000 in cash. I've seen similar Maranellos as high as $184,000 and as low as $169,000 (but with 10,000 miles on it). So this seems like a very fair deal. Deal 2. A car 100 miles away whose history is known by the Ferrari dealer and is priced at $200,000. The car has 1800 miles on it: I've driven and seen the car and it is essentially new (so is the car in Deal 1). This car is under warrantee until July of 2002. This dealer will take my NEW 996tt as trade + $83,000. The difference in price between the two Ferraris is due to the relative ages of the cars. My impression is that the 550s take huge hits for every year, usually about $10,000/year, so I do understand the pricing difference. As I see it, the plus side of deal 1 is price, price, price. The guy is really motivated to sell and if the car is as nice as he maintains it is, the car is priced very, very fairly. In addition, he's giving me about $80,000 in trade in value for the '97tt, which the dealers are wholesaling between them for about $65,000 these days. The minus side is that I haven't seen the car and won't be able to before one of the deals needs to finished (the second car is being wholesaled this Friday for, the dealer says $190,000-which seems a little high to me but I don't know the Ferrari market that well). Accessories and color don't matter to me that much; the first car is red and the second car is my regular silver color. The plus side of deal 2 is that I've seen the car and don't need to hassle with cross country shipping: the downside is that we lose the tip Porsche, which my wife likes to drive-but she is saying it's my decision. Also, I take a hit of $20,000 in trading in the newer Porsche, as well as losing the balance of the 5 year warrantee. So..........what would YOU do? Keep the last of the air-cooled Porsches and pay the extra $40,00-50,000 for the security of the newer 550? Or sell the 27,000 mile, out of warantee Porsche and keep my new 996tt-which the second dealer is giving me about $117,000 for a car that retailed for $125,000? No flames please-I'm perfectly capable of flaming myself! I'm simply interested in other F-car peoples' views. |