| Author | Message | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 322 Registered: 3-2002 |
chicks like\want what they cant have..hence guy with kid and wedding ring... girls are messed | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 255 Registered: 2-2002 |
Steve - a couple of questions on the Murcielago mate...... 1. Did it sound as good as the Diablo. 2. Magazines have claimed the engine resonates badly and annoyingly at high RPM, is this true. 3. Just how quick did it feel. 4. Any other dynamic impressions...(balance, ride etc) 5. Is it comfortable..... Ross, both of us have got to drive this car AND soon! | ||
| Steve (V10_nut)
New member Username: V10_nut Post Number: 12 Registered: 3-2002 |
Yes Manu, I have driven a Murcielago and Lambo/Audi have come a long way towards making the driving experience much more enjoyable. My biggest problem with Diablo's of the past was the heavy clutch and the degree of effort it took to go through the gears. The Murcielago (6-speed gearbox) won't go 60mph in first gear like a Diablo and is more user friendly to get rolling, then the gear changes are silky smooth. You can spend your time enjoying the tightness of the car and the mind-blowing acceleration without worrying about how much effort the next gear change and clutch engagement will be. You still have the lack of visibility like the previous models, but from a first impression it is hard to believe the two cars came from the same factory. Critisism's? The power steering is too light, (similar to a 456) with a little loss of road feel at speed. They have really wide rockers that look like running boards that you have to climb over when climbing in or getting out. Bottom line, drive a Murcielago before being to hard on it. It's not a Diablo. Steve | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Junior Member Username: Ross Post Number: 82 Registered: 3-2002 |
manu: i agree with you totally in your example of 550 vs diablo (i have driven one and di not like it at all). but that wasn't my scenario. i was trying to say that from what i have read (since i have not driven either one of these cars), that the murcielago is now a great drivers car as well as being a looker. david: you are very right; i take one of my 3 kids with me on many drives and it usually brings out the reactiosn u mentioned. so single guys take note: borrow your best friends kid for the day and see what u can pick up..... | ||
| David Albright (Dalbright)
Member Username: Dalbright Post Number: 328 Registered: 2-2001 |
A baby has power over all! I'm always taking my son around on our own and boy do the ladies go crazy. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Junior Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 74 Registered: 4-2002 |
Lol, you signal men.... you don't understand the power of the ring! It is the one ring, forged by the dark lord Matrimony. | ||
| Ryanab (Ryanab)
Junior Member Username: Ryanab Post Number: 53 Registered: 3-2002 |
Don't know why single chicks would want to see a wedding ring on your finger.. Am I missing something? PS. Can anyone let me borrow their Ferrari?  RMK | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 926 Registered: 6-2001 |
Anyone got a ferrari, puppy, wedding ring and chefs hat i can borrow? | ||
| David Prall (Davidpra)
Junior Member Username: Davidpra Post Number: 90 Registered: 2-2001 |
Want chicks? Sit in your Ferrari with a puppy in the passenger seat, a wedding ring on your finger, a Chef's hat on your head, and tight pants (with or without a rolled up sock -- depending on your particular genetic fortune). You'll appeal to every female demographic!! | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Junior Member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 186 Registered: 4-2002 |
I think some of you are making the decision based on the Diablo and not the Murcielago. My girlfriend's brother who works in Miami had a chance to drive the Murcielago and said it is absolutley awesome. This is a guy who hated Diablos! So I think until you really drive one(Murcielago or Diablo), you cannot make a fair decision on which you would pick. Just choose a car that makes you happy-bottom line. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 247 Registered: 2-2002 |
Mark, In answer to your question, Ferrari found no-one wanted massive V12 mad mid-engined exotics anymore. They were too noisy, too hot, too uncomfortable, too critical at the limit, and a little too "chest wig and gold medallion man," - essentially the cars were never driven - and this was pissing owners off. Sufficiently wealthy people were simply not buying them - they just didn't want them. Cue the 550 Maranello. I personally LOVE the old BBs and TR's........ | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 246 Registered: 2-2002 |
Ross, I couldn't disagree with you more. If we're going to China Whites in London, I would rather go in a friends Diablo and make a jaw-dropping appearance. But if I want to drive, and I mean, really drive the 550 Maranello wins everytime. Dynamically, as a DRIVING experience Lambo's are thoroughly outclassed by Ferraris (I haven't driven a Murcielago). The old Diablo was (particularly in its early guises) a brute to drive - not really as much fun as people think. You're just lucky in that you have one of the last cars (512tr) that could serve up the drama AND be a drivers car. Here's what I think - After a few sessions in both cars this is what you'd think: Come a sunny morning you'd be out driving the 550 thrashing the life out of it and enjoying it for the driving thrill. Come the hot summer nights and cruising through the city you'd take the Diablo. Has anyone driven a Murcielago? Until then comparisons are academic. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Junior Member Username: Study Post Number: 245 Registered: 10-2001 |
The bigger question is .... who at Ferrari did the 550, 465 design, and was one of the priorities to make the cars less of an attention getter? Also is Ferrari heading in the direction of the classy car? Leaving the Exotic market for Lambo to pick up? I wish I had my camera, you see some cool stuff up here in Detroit from time to time. But I saw a new 93 Viper, Vette convertable, and a 355 spyder all parked in the same lot and didn't really see any differance of the basic shape. Not sure if the Ferrari blended in more with the sports cars, or the Vette and Viper are making a better effort at standing out? F50 and F60 don't count because money is too high and production numbers are too low, to make any real impact. Lambo "Bat" and the new "baby" Lambo are priced in the Range that people will at least be able to buy them used, if not new. I think that makes this an interesting topic. Drivability will be much imporved over Diablo... so it should no longer be a question of Lambo for show OR F-car for drive. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 703 Registered: 8-2001 |
The FX will be a very limited, special car. I'd get a Murcielago, a regularly produced car, as a more obtainable alternative. Too bad we don't have a Lambo dealer around here.  | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Junior Member Username: Ross Post Number: 81 Registered: 3-2002 |
marv, u r missing my point. i have a red 512tr and that is fun to drive AND gets plenty of attention, wanted and unwanted. what i am talking about is along the lines of dino's comments. money (and other realities) aside, if you had both of these cars in your garage (and no others) on a sunny sunday morning and you lived right next to a race track/german autobahn/favorite stretch of empty road, which one would you jump into for that automotive adrenalin rush? for me the answer is the murcielago. and since i am such a big ferrari fan, i am hoping that they create something along those lines so that they don't lose that adrenalin inducing edge. some of you will say that the answer to that prayer is the f60, but i'll wait to see the price on that one.... | ||
| Marv B (Mdb69)
New member Username: Mdb69 Post Number: 40 Registered: 4-2002 |
Lambo has always had cars that looked more exotic than Ferrari. If you want to be seen, get a Lambo, if you want to drive get a Ferrari. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Junior Member Username: Ross Post Number: 80 Registered: 3-2002 |
i tend to agree with dino. altho i currently can't afford either the 575 or the murcielago, whenever my head hits the pillow its the lambo that dances on my eyelids. it looks like an exotic, sounds like an exotic and performs like an exotic. the 575 is so reserved and conservative, it kind of stifles the exuberance that these cars should evoke in all of us. i am a die-hard ferrari guy, but they need to come up with another 12 cylinder mid engine head turner before lambo steals all their thunder. | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Junior Member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 181 Registered: 4-2002 |
I agree with Dino, Lamborgghini is heading in the right direction while Quality is going up. IMO | ||
| Dino Micalizio (Ingenere)
New member Username: Ingenere Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2001 |
I have been a Ferrari lover and owner for quite some time. I have driven an F40 daily to work, as well as been through 308's, Mondials, TR's, 348's...love 'em all. But I think that they (Ferrari)have lost the plot a bit as far as style. The Maranello has always been way too sedate. To me it looks a bit like a Camaro... for 200K. Part of the appeal for me is the exotic part of the whole thing. I want the car to get my emotions going. I parked my TR next to a Maranello...the TR looks, sounds, and drives like an exotic car. I have driven several 550's...very nice, but not an experience that would get me up extra early on a Sunday morning to uncover the baby and head out to inflict some damage on some empty roads...it felt like an ordinary car. Lambo is defintely on the right track, and w/Audi at the helm....they should actually work!! | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Junior Member Username: Modman Post Number: 209 Registered: 11-2001 |
Understandable Ernesto. If you do use 20% try using a hybrid film in a charcoal color which will look more natural but it will be to dark for the front roll ups which could get you a fix it ticket. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 370 Registered: 2-2001 |
I dont know, Modman, I was speaking mostly on a scenario where I had no cars and someone just gave me the keys to a Diablo and I was working on a budget. Personally, I think the Diablo would attract way too much attention wherever I went. My uncle had one and I got to drive it a few times around town, and the attention was ubelievable. My 360 feels like a Camry by comparison, although it does attract some attention. But I dont feel like a movie star when driving, which is what I want. Matter of fact, I am in the process of tinting the 360 with 20% paper to avoid all those stares, etc etc... I just want to drive my car in peace!! Ernesto | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Junior Member Username: Modman Post Number: 207 Registered: 11-2001 |
Ernesto, but why get rid of the Diablo? keep it and get a 355 also. The experience of having both cars should be even better don't you think? and you could add the Supra or whatever if necessary. I don't think I'll be getting rid of the Diablo anytime soon although it has some minor drawbacks such as making wide U turns and minor rear visibility problems. There are certain days I feel like driving this car and there are days I want to drive the Ferrari or the Benz. On my day off the Lambo calls for me and my life around people is so very different, I've met new people and even received more business from people just from being seen with the car! The car is paying for itself and then some and that is why I can't get rid of this car. I usually pass cars on but this one seems to have a personality all on its own and it truly is a magnet to no less of degree but then again the magnet sometimes draw some unwanted crowds also but haven't had any problems either. Well, fellas that is my experience to this day... peace to all and to all a good night... | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 917 Registered: 6-2001 |
I dont know mitchell, that ferrari logo will drop a hell of a lot more panties than a corvette logo will. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
New member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 43 Registered: 4-2002 |
Honesty, anything better than "average" registers as "good" to woman and they don't think any farther than that. A new corvette is the same as a new 360 to them... they bairly care. The difference is YOU care... drive the car YOU want. Really.. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 279 Registered: 12-2001 |
Manu: i'm telling you, a guy's perception of what a "chick" will like and what a "chick" will actually like are entirely different things. Yes, there are women who are motorheads, and know more about some of these cars than both of us. They are the exception, not the rule. My wife thought the best looking car of all the ones i had was a white 328 gts with red leather interior, and not the red 550, not the red BBi, not the 355 gts in silver (but interestingly, she liked the 348 spider in black). As to the Barchetta, if i were trolling for 17 yr old boys, i would be scoring big. But i think we guys have a distorted view of how we are perceived by women anyway, not the least of which thru our automobiles. Jaguar e type, anyone? | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 915 Registered: 6-2001 |
Ernesto, i still respect supras, and for the money they are the fastest cars. Im sure as an owner you know that theres something intangible that makes the ferrari experience so rewarding. I know i was talking about a lambo, but cant think of anything to back up my statement onther than that i like the way they look and that they are fast. The supra is almost definately an easier car to drive though, from what i heard lambos can be a ••••• to drive around town, but there are always tradeoffs. I'd bet an F355 spider is more of a chick magnet than an F40. If i were a girl i'd be more attracted to a drop top. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 243 Registered: 2-2002 |
Wm Hart - excluding the F50/F40 and perhaps a TR, your 550 Barchetta, hood down on a sunny day, MUST be the most female-attention getting Ferrari out there. It helps to be young of course - just kidding mate!!!!! | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 128 Registered: 2-2001 |
Sounds like fun, wm. But keep in mind a stretched Supra will blow the doors off of that Rolls. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 697 Registered: 8-2001 |
The Rolls probably gave you that sugar daddy image. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 278 Registered: 12-2001 |
On the topic of girls and cars, i gotta tell you that the most "attention" i got came not from an italian exotic, of which i have had quite a few, but in a chauffeur driven rolls; i was staying at the Peninsula instead of the 4 Seasons (my usual haunt in LA) and asked for a lift down to the ferrari dealer near the foot of Rodeo. The hotel insisted on my being taken by the "house" car, a rolls. As we cruised thru beverly hills, i realized what it must be like to be astonishingly good looking. One blond, driving an obligatory MB sl, looked at me as if she was going to get naked right at the intersection. Frankly, though, i think its an unreasonably expensive, shallow way to get female attention, of the wrong sort. But what fuN! | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 367 Registered: 2-2001 |
Tim nobody here is saying a Supra is better than a Diablo. Did you read the posts? The Supra is faster, but it definitely is not better. I think the posts are very clear on that! Anyway, I too would take the Diablo keys instead of the Supra. Then I would sell the Diablo and get a 355 and an 800hp Supra... :-) Ernesto | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 911 Registered: 6-2001 |
Modman, dont worry, your diablo is one of the nicest cars anyone could own. THe only nicer cars cost hundreds of thousands more. Dont let these guys say there supra is better. If i was offered the keys to an 800hp supra or a diablo roadster do you know which one i'd pick? Yeah,i dont even think i have to say. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 278 Registered: 3-2002 |
manu well said..i definatly agree with you | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1358 Registered: 2-2001 |
It also helps if you can lick your eyebrows. | ||
| Ryanab (Ryanab)
New member Username: Ryanab Post Number: 48 Registered: 3-2002 |
Manu, Agree w/ you 100%. Too bad women like Nika are few and far between.. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Junior Member Username: Study Post Number: 243 Registered: 10-2001 |
Andrew- I understand your pain brother I know most of you guys are married anyway, but if your single like me... you think about stuff like this when its time to buy a new car. Chicks are Dumb on cars (except the small %5) Ferrari is trying to be a classy company and building cars that blend in a bit more. No more 80's exotics wild space-ship looks. New Cars look better now at the Country Club or Yacth Harbor older Baby Boomers now in their 50's is where Ferrari is targeting. Combine this with the fact that ... girls are dumb when it comes to cars!. Any-thing that looks even a bit like a vette or camero chicks won't even look twice. They don't know the differance and NSX, 355, 550,and 360 don't turn a girls head like a TR or Lambo does. So I think it is funny that cars have to look very wild or girls just think its a vette or camero. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 234 Registered: 2-2002 |
I disagree with you Andrew - Ferraris DO 'get girls' as you so bluntly put it . Hell you don't even need a Ferrari. I was in a friends BMW Z3 (M version) with the hood down, some time ago sitting in Central London traffic AND EVERYONE was looking at us. Some girls even started shouting (quite flattering) comments! It helps to be young of course and I suppose we are (relatively speaking). However Andrew, most women are not interested in cars. They ARE interested by men. They won't bother looking at an empty car left by the side of the street (even if it is a Ferrari). However this changes when there is a young well dressed man sitting in it for them to look at. Try this: Try sitting inside it having parked it at the side of a busy sidewalk - see how many women look at your car - then repeat what you did in the cafe 5 feet away etc... You'll understand what I mean. The girls that pay attention to your car only when you're inside it, are the ladies not worth bothering with. The Ladies that stop to look when no one is inside are the ones that are worth making an effort for. They'd probably be a damm sight more fun to hang around with anyway. Example? Imagine Nikas reaction to an empty Red 550 Barchetta at the side of the road - she probably start jumping up and down for joy! A whole lot more interesting than some sad gold-digger. Anyone agree Manu | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 199 Registered: 7-2001 |
OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!! I didn't even bother to read this thread, as I was not overly interested in a lambo vs ferrari debate. Now I realize that I have been left out of a perfectly good Supra vs Ferrari debate. I have let my supra brothers down, and for that, I am truly sorry. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 276 Registered: 3-2002 |
u know what ferrari's dont get girls..its wierd..ive parked my 355 on a busy street next to a cafe and innocently sat on a table 5 feet away eating to watch ppl look at it..the guys look at it and point..guys look in their cars as they drive by..but girls just walk on by..never ever look..this is a 355 with the top down folks..ferrari's dont get girls..unless a girl rides in one IMO | ||
| Mark (Study)
Junior Member Username: Study Post Number: 242 Registered: 10-2001 |
I love the lamborghini vs Ferrari topic... to bad for me it turned into Supra talk But that's cool. You guys are going to laugh at me... but I buy cars to get more hot dates. Ferrari is good but I was thinking Lamborghini (depending on what they come up with for the new baby Lambo) since it makes the girls go crazy! I guess Supra doesn't even make the top 20 list for turning chicks heads... so the car is worthless to me. Funny how different people have differnt needs. Just thought you guys would enjoy a good laugh at my expense. Now back to Lamborghini... I hope the new baby lambo will look like the Laraki Fulgura by Morocco .. what a great looking car (Road & Track June 02).. but I guess it's just a show car using the lambo engine. Too bad, really looks like a 550M and a 360 morphed together. Very attractive. Personaly my friend that bought a puppy is getting more chick action then me. But short of that,.. I do enjoy a bit of racing with my dating ;) | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 361 Registered: 2-2001 |
Nobody is putting your car down, Modman... Like you said, faster does not equal better or more enjoyable! I prefer my 360 over my Supra a million times over, even though it is much slower! They are two different beasts. Enjoy your rides, they look great! Mitchel, regarding that Vette, put it on the street and lets see what happens. I bet you anthing that thing will feel like crap at over 150mph, let alone 170 or 180mph. A nice little drag race with a 800hp Supra from 50mph to 180mph will put that big block, no smog, muscle car in its place. Hey, it looks fast, but it aint cant match the likes of a highly modded Supra, Skyline, or even a C5 Vette, on full race... Ernesto Ernesto | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Junior Member Username: Modman Post Number: 201 Registered: 11-2001 |
You know fellas, I don't care about any car that's faster than my cars or even try to put my cars down cause I bought them for good reasons and you know what, I am getting more fun than I expected. I gave up on looking for the fastest car out there in production cause there will always be a faster one made every year so go figure... enjoy what you have and who gives a •••• about lighter, faster and so on. If it don't make you feel good when you drive it, it's not worth good quality time cruising on a nice sunny day and let's end it at that. I'm gonna take my car out tomorrow and enjoy the weekend.. Peace out fellas... | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
New member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 38 Registered: 4-2002 |
You know plenty of Supra's that will run with that 3300lb, 1500hp c3 with 335's on the rear? Lol, even SW's supra wouldn't have a chance. He could even turn the boost up and take it to 1,750hp safely. No smog = easy to make fast. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 359 Registered: 2-2001 |
Full boost comes on at about 5,000RPM like a hammer, Bret. A GN may do decent 1/4 times, but they WILL get burned on the street because of crappy top speed and handling at top speed. The original discussion was of Modman's encounter with a Supra in his Diablo on the freeway... on that scenario, on am impromptu mini-drag race, the Supra is hard to beat. Also, my opinion is that Vettes have horrible interior and exterior fit and finish - that has been my experience. Granted, the latest model is ages ahead of the previous Vettes, but still way behind in terms of quality from a Supra, Nissan Z, etc etc. But that is another discussion! That link to the old vette, I have plenty of Supras that can run with it. Just let me know if they ever finish it... Ernesto | ||
| James (Jim_red308)
New member Username: Jim_red308 Post Number: 26 Registered: 3-2001 |
Excuse me, and I do not mean to offend Lambo lovers out there... but does anyone else think the picture below (lambo) looks like a caricature? I guess my own personal problem with lambos is that they appear like they're trying to hard...way too exotic...designer didn't know when to stop drawing. Just my opinion - and I know that doesn't count for much. I just feel ferraris have always been simpler designed - not overstated, but elegant. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 277 Registered: 12-2001 |
Actually, Ernesto, you are right about the origin of the Supra "detour" on this one but i just couldn't resist. Frankly, i don't really have a hardon for Supras, per se, just absolutism of any sort (though i don't doubt a tweaked Supra could bruise alot of egos on the street). I had the same reaction a few months ago on the R&T site, when somebody kept responding to every category of discussion concerning exotic cars with "Nah, i'd rather have a Viper," even if the car in question was the McClaren. Quickness is a marvelous thing, but so is finess. I'll leave the prestige thing out of it. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
New member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 37 Registered: 4-2002 |
Case in point: http://www.stevenkamis.com/Cars/MyVette/ Show me a supra that can run with that. ;) Any car out of smog can be be made faster than any car in smog. Simple eh? | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
New member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 36 Registered: 4-2002 |
I don't think I ever put down your supra? I said if 1/4th mile or speed is all you care about the supra is not the right car for you. You should have a 60's big block (Smog free! do just about anything you want to it..) and you can have a car in the 7's (granted with enough money) Easy. Take a Merlin block 522 or 700, add a Wipple supercharger (or four) and walla, 1,500hp+ depending on your boost. If you think the build quality of a 02 vette is worse than a 93 supra you have never owned (or looked at) a 02 vette. No Ferrari but it will do. Also, to those on the list whom think a Supra can't handle.. It can, and well. Not a Ferrari 360, but not as far off as you would think. Oh, the difference between a 800hp supra and a 1,000hp Diablo? One is 1,000hp all the time on pump gas, one is running racing fuel and never has the boost turned up past 600 on the street. I'll let you figure out which is which. And as per your question regarding my cars, not that it is any of your business, I have a 99 C5 corvette as my daily driver. My wife drives a z28, I have a civic as backup transportation and a old truck for hauling whatever it is I need to move at the time. I am saving to buy a F355 in the next few years and owned a Diablo SV for a short time so yes, your Supra is faster than any car I own. What else would you like to know about me? | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 896 Registered: 6-2001 |
If you want 1/4th mile times, and you think a supra is the only 6cly turbo car that can run 9's and be street driven you dont know about the 87 buick GNX's (or the cheaper GN). Buy a GN for 8k, dump in 20k you will be in the 8's and the car will be drivealbe, passing emmissions will be hard. I dont know about you but i see 9 and 19 second muscle cars all the time and they are plenty driveable, the ones with lockers might be a pain in the ass, but they are still streetable. Maybe you will respect american muscle when a chevelle with a blown big block embarasses your supra. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 125 Registered: 2-2001 |
According to Enzo, based on cylinder count, a Supra should, in fact, be referred to as a Dino. An added benefit being that the engine is in the proper location. The purist in me says it's time to switch some badges. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2611 Registered: 2-2001 |
Not to hijack...How much turbo lag is there in one of those single turbo supras? This is the only thing I wonder about. It seems to me there would be lag out the ass. I'm not trying to make some point or something here, just curious as to how much the lag increases and how hard the power comes on, along with when the power comes on and the redline after all this stuff. Ernesto please enlighten me. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 358 Registered: 2-2001 |
Heh heh.. I love it when people lose it when the word Supra is mentioned. Any other car, its fine. But Supras? HAHA... A Riot is automatically created. I think the problem is that Supras are to EASY to make go fast that it just rubs people the wrong way. I dont see why you have to blow a fuse though... Anyway, look back in the thread and see how it came up. It was not from a Supra owner... BTW, a 1,000 hp car is not driveable if all you are used to is a 260 hp car. My Supra is very driveable... Ernesto | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2075 Registered: 5-2001 |
...who cares.... what good is a fu*king 1000HP Supra, if you can not drive it | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 275 Registered: 12-2001 |
Oh, No, its the Supra debate again! It seems to come up no matter what the context. Here it was a Lambo v Ferrari debate, and then all of a sudden, it got transformed into, Supra, the quickest, best, most beserk supercar on the planet, bar none. I wonder if we plugged into, say a wine afficianado site, and somebody was debating the merits of, say, certain old burgundies, compared to the California offerings of late, and then, in jumps the Supra guys,saying, in effect, "you guys are completely full of ••••. I would never pay that for an old Volnay. And Niebaum-Coppola's signature label is really just a rip off. The Supra will blow their doors off!" | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 293 Registered: 3-2001 |
A missed point is that it is only good in a straight line. To me this is only 15% of the cars overall performance. Ferraris aren't dragsters and I have much more fun in turns than going in a straight line. You brought up fit and finish. Well IMO the Supra doesn't handle very well and a many cars would out perform it on the track with much less hp. I am not putting down the car I am just stating the truth. There is a C5 Vette in the new Motor Trend that can accelerate 0-60 in 1.97s but that IMO is only part of what makes a car a great car. Just thought this should be included. Do you guys think that Lambos get just as much or more attention than Ferraris? I never see them and when I drive my Ferrari or Lotus everyone is looking, pointing etc. I was just wondering how the reaction is for Lambos. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 357 Registered: 2-2001 |
I am in the wrong car? Pardon, but I love my 360 Modena to death. And as far as I am concerned, it is the right car for me! Short of an F40 or F50, this is the car most want to be driving. I also love my Supra. I don't tell you that YOU are in the wrong car. What do you drive? I know your friend drives a 1,500hp Vette... Whatever it is, I wont put it down like you have mine. 1,000hp Diablos will never keep up with 800hp Supras, they are too heavy and trannys are sluggish and break. And regarding a 1,500hp street vette, until I see one they will continue to be those fanasy cars you read in the magazines. Show me a video of that vette on the dyno pulling 1,500hp without NOS, then show me a video of that vette passing a state inspection, then I will believe it. I have no respect for American sports cars. You may be able to get them to go fast, but the fit and finish on a 2002 Vette is so horrible when compared to a 1993 Supra thats it not even funny - its pathetic. And don't even mention Vipers... I dont know why people get all bent out of shape when the word "Supra" is mentioned. I think its funny.... I am not trying to get into a "whose fastest" argument. I just posted the fact that a modded 348 or Diablo will be slower than a modded Supra. I have never seen a 348 or Diablo run 9's @ over 145mph in street legal trim (or otherwise). Ernesto | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2609 Registered: 2-2001 |
There was a 735HP supercharged Diablo on ebay a couple days ago. I bet that was pretty fast, but doubt it could keep up with the lighter and more powerful Supra. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
New member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 34 Registered: 4-2002 |
[quote]You can mod a Diablo or 348 all you want, it will never beat a modded Supra in pure speed/accelleration. We have several street Supras with full interior and functioning audo/ac that run well into the 9's in the 1/4 mile at over 145mph on DOT tires (BFGoodrich Drag Radials).[/quote] hahaha! Yes... impossable to mod a Diablo to 1,000+ Hp. Nope, no way... not a F40, F50, 360, 550, nothing! Nope, not a chance.... ;) All it takes is money... More money than the Supra? Yes... but the results are MORE impressive. Besides, if all you want is power.. why are you even looking at Supras? A friend of mine has a street legal 1,500hp C3 corvette. There are many old big block cars running 8's and even 7's due to no smog laws for the old cars... you're in the wrong car my friend! | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 356 Registered: 2-2001 |
Your reaction is really important to me. Thanks of your input!! Ernesto | ||
| chris (Wrench_turner)
New member Username: Wrench_turner Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2002 |
You know, I remember a company in the mid to late eighties that put testarossa-style doors and fenders on corvettes and juiced them up with nitrous systems. They would go faster than a real testarossa in a straight line, too. I also remember Carrol Shelby going off about how his little Dodge Omni sh!tbox with big tires and a turbo slapped on it would beat a 308 around willow springs. My reaction then to those cars is the same as my reaction to the people who modify a Supra with a giant single turbo so it will crank out 800 horsepower: That's nice for you. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 355 Registered: 2-2001 |
You can mod a Diablo or 348 all you want, it will never beat a modded Supra in pure speed/accelleration. We have several street Supras with full interior and functioning audo/ac that run well into the 9's in the 1/4 mile at over 145mph on DOT tires (BFGoodrich Drag Radials). On the street, they are even more impressive. By the way, a STOCK Supra has no problem pulling away from a 348, as I have experienced this first hand many times. Regarding which one I like better, let me just say that nothing comes close to the rush of 800rwhp on a street car. The feeling is simply amazing. Given that, I would still keep my 360 if I was forced to choose between them, even though it is MUCH MUCH slower. The feel of the Ferrari is so different and unexplainable when driving it that I could never give it up. In fact, my Supra is for sale for precisely this reason... Ernesto | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Junior Member Username: Modman Post Number: 197 Registered: 11-2001 |
Yes it sounds a surprise to most people that the sound of a Supra beating a Ferrari or Diablo but I wasn't because I know it was heavily modded out. It did pull ahead slowly but traffic room ran out before I could catch up and pass. Entering the freeway on a sharp curve the Supra had a hard time catching up and probably it was due to experience of handling a car and the cars ablility to handle. Of course I could have twin turbos put in and could be a different story and I could've bought one when I purchased my roadster for less money but it wasn't what I was looking for. I could've had a much faster car built since it was not really a money factor considering the kind of cars that I buy. But ask anyone which car is more appealing and make you feel good when you drive it and surely without a question you have the answer. Don't get me wrong, the Supra modded out is superb and Toyota cars have excellent motors built, I use to own a Lexus SC400 so I know about built quality from the time it was built. My days of street racing was minimal and did it within safe distance and out of peoples way. Kids are the majority of the ones that irresponsibly race on the streets and probably end up in bad accidents or cause accidents. Ernesto, your comment on a Supra can pull away from any Diablo or 348 is not entirely true, a fixed up one with a turbo, yes. Turbo is just an edge, try without one on a stock Supra against one who has a stock NSX for engine size. I'm curious Ernesto, which car makes you feel good when driving? if your Supra was stock? and not considering maintenace costs into factor.. | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Junior Member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 150 Registered: 4-2002 |
Modman, ring, ring....Al Burtoni-how can I help you? | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
New member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 33 Registered: 4-2002 |
"any 348 or Diablo" I assume you mean a modded Supra.... yes, good thing there are no Modded Ferrari's or Lamborghini's. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 354 Registered: 2-2001 |
A Supra could pull away easily from any 348 or Diablo... I know mine can! :-) Ernesto | ||
| Marv B (Mdb69)
New member Username: Mdb69 Post Number: 18 Registered: 4-2002 |
Is that Bugatti already in production? I haven't seen any reviews on it. Must be a handful to drive unless it has lots of computer help. VW engine though, blah Not that I have anything against VW. | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Junior Member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 149 Registered: 4-2002 |
20 years...try now Bugatti has a Veyron with 1001 hp's. I am sure F-cars won't take long! | ||
| Rijk Rietveld (Rijk365gtb4)
New member Username: Rijk365gtb4 Post Number: 27 Registered: 1-2002 |
Donckerwolke sounds Belgian to me and means "dark cloud". Very appropriate. Rijk | ||
| Nunja Bitness (Jaxfl)
New member Username: Jaxfl Post Number: 42 Registered: 11-2001 |
Modman, Were you kidding about racing a Supra? If not, which car did it pull away from, your 348 or the Diablo? | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Junior Member Username: Modman Post Number: 195 Registered: 11-2001 |
Dave, that's funny but I see it as Lambo being the pimp and not a slut! he he .. it's all good. The pedal layout is really close than I need it but I adapted to it. Ergonomically cars will always be more towards that area. Notice how more luxurious exotic cars are more becoming and that includes horsepower, it's all business. 1000hp cars can be made but why do that when you can make more money selling the cars in increments, kinda like computers. See reality! WAKE UP! If power is what you want then fix up your ride and save yourselves thousands and have the pleasure of beating out the next few generations of the same car. Oh by the way on the freeway Sunday a twin turbo supra pulled away from me, guess what my next project will be? Fast & Furious II he he.... | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 252 Registered: 3-2002 |
is it me or does every single new car have more and more horsepower and the model numbers riser..imagine 20 years from now the cars will have around 1000hp for a basic 360 style ferrari and it will be named the 820 modena or something for its 8.2 LIter Engine..wow | ||
| Floyd Lawson (Floyd8686)
New member Username: Floyd8686 Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2002 |
I am more comfortable driving a Ferrari than the Diablo. My feet are a bit big for the small footwell in the Diablo. I've heard the Murcielago has better ergonomics than the Diablo. | ||
| Steve (V10_nut)
New member Username: V10_nut Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2002 |
Great comments on the Lambo v. Ferrari debate. While it may not be fair to compare the 550 and the Murcielago side by side, they are fairly close in size, wieght and both excellent GT examples. Lamborghini has come a long way with the Murcielago making it much easier to drive than even the 6.0 of last year. The 6-speed has shorter gears so it's easier to get rolling and should make clutch replacement more in line with Ferrari expectations. But even though it is more user friendly they didn't engineer the Bull out of it. It still sounds great during hard excelleration and really pins you in the seat when you nail it. If you have driven a Diablo and liked it, you won't be disappointed. The 550 is a more functional car with better visibility, quieter interior and a bit more room inside, not to mention a stellar performer in its own right. Which is better? Depends on what you personally prefer. Let the debate continue | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
New member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 32 Registered: 5-2002 |
Modman, Thank you for taking the time to respond. That was enlightening | ||
| Marv B (Mdb69)
New member Username: Mdb69 Post Number: 16 Registered: 4-2002 |
LOL | ||
| David Prall (Davidpra)
Junior Member Username: Davidpra Post Number: 89 Registered: 2-2001 |
There was a humorous quote in a recent issue of FORZA that says it all... Something to the effect that "The Ferrari is like the pretty, proper, presentable woman you take to meet your parents. And, the Lamborghini is the wild slut you keep on the side." | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Junior Member Username: Modman Post Number: 174 Registered: 11-2001 |
Ron, I have posted the pics of the cars here before I think about 3 weeks ago. Yes the Ferrari for me sounds better but again it IS a personal preferance - the Diablo is a throaty sounding car (like a muscle car) growling at you. It is comfortable cruising at high speeds and very stable to. I love the fact you can adjust the suspension dampening at 4 levels and you can press a button and raise the front of the car so you can go over a high curb or rough grounds, something I wish Ferrari would make... and with the top on you don't get hardly much wind noise compared to the Ferrari. Again there are pluses and negatives in both cars.. Make a checklist of your importance and I can rate them for you. If you are looking for comfort & luxury then go get a luxury sports car and not exotic, exotic cars in reality were never ever made to be anywhere near cheap in repairs or be driven reliable as an everyday car and expect tune ups so far apart from each other. The more exotic the more expensive the more rare the most head turning experience you will ever have, what else could me more true. There is good to this and bad to this. Well anyway to answer some of the questions of the Diablo after a few weeks of driving, it's not too bad seeing out of the car as long as the mirrors are used, when I pass cars I just romp on the gas and I'm over the next lane. Making U turns are not as well as the 348 due to wide wheel base, car is stable at high speeds 150 feels like 65mph can go for more no problem but not necessary for US roads. The gears were made for high speed, not necessary to go into 5th, go to 3rd and romp on it at freeway speeds. 2nd and 3rd gears are the best for this car. Comparing to f60 is not really fair since the f60 would probably be at least double the price. I would like to compare the experience for the dollar amount you pay for a car but that is just me. I do love my 348 for what I paid for it. The build quality of the Diablo is better than my 348 but then again you are paying for it also. I must admit my temptations, I bought the Ferrari because of the looks and I know most of us here must admit that and then came the other areas. If I wanted a more powerful car, the Ferrari would not be in my mind and nor would the Diablo either. Sorry for a long note but I was trying to share my experience with all yall... | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
New member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 44 Registered: 3-2002 |
I'd still get a Ferrari. Beasts they are, Lambos are more like mid-engined Italian pony...err... bull (??) cars... Plus F-cars sound better. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 669 Registered: 9-2001 |
speaking of lambo wheres william h been lately. I thought he was in miami getting a new apartment | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 881 Registered: 6-2001 |
"Either way, he said the new Lamborghini is an absolute beast - he said it is a BASTARD to drive in town (you can't see out of it) and that it's layout and feel is pure racecar." Sounds like every other lambo. Some things never change... | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
New member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 22 Registered: 5-2002 |
To WM Hart- I like lambo's alot. It's just that I love Ferraris a whole lot more..I've been lucky enough to be in a Diablo Roasdster and there is nothing like it on the road. That car is an animal. I recommend that anyone who has driven a Ferrari to drive a diablo for a day, you wont regret it.. To Modman- You are the man! You have the best of both worlds. Lamborghini and Ferrari. (I would love for you to post a picture of you garages open with both cars showing). Keep in mind, weather we own a Ferrari or a Lamboraghini, people will always look, yell and some may even hate us just for the home we live in or the cars we are driving.. It's understood that the Diablo attracts alot of attention, even more so than Ferraris but that kind of comes with the territory.. No matter if your driving the least expensive Ferrari or the most expensive Lombo, people are going to look | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Junior Member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 131 Registered: 4-2002 |
I think the comparison of a Murcielago and a 575 is unfair. I would say to compare it to the F60 they are both around that "exotic" status, hp's, etc...to me the 575 is more of a tame looking car than the Murcielago. 575has 515 hp's compared to 580 hp's to the Lambo, so comparing looks and performance is a bit different. IMO. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Junior Member Username: Ross Post Number: 64 Registered: 3-2002 |
on that subject.....had a neat car-guy experience this weekend. saw a mucielago and a 550, parked pretty closely (a few streets apart), and so got a good look at the new beast and compare it to the old king. must say that the lambo definetely appeals to the 'exotic' car lover in me. very low, mean and purposeful looking, vs the 550's more restrained and classic look. i used to have my dreams straight (makes lots of money, buy a 575m), but now if i found myself in that situation i would be seriously tempted to try a lambo. as some of you have said, the 'liveability' factor has probably escaped me and i would end up hating the undue attention, but......that lambo looks like its going 200 mph while parked. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 216 Registered: 2-2002 |
I spoke to the UK Ferrari/Lamborghini dealer some time ago and he told me that most UK Lamborghini owners already have a Ferrari + 7 other cars in their garage!! Either way, he said the new Lamborghini is an absolute beast - he said it is a BASTARD to drive in town (you can't see out of it) and that it's layout and feel is pure racecar. I'm fairly young (on the grand scale of things ), and not really tied down, so the idea of owning a car that drops jaws (even more than a 550 Maranello) does appeal to me - I suppose I am a bit of a poseur. But to me, that alone doesn't consitute a reason to buy one. Modman, can you elaborate on the driving experience of your Diablo - the sound it makes, its dynamic quality, steering, throttle response -how do these things measure up to your (or the equivalent) Ferrari? | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Junior Member Username: Modman Post Number: 171 Registered: 11-2001 |
In my opinion Italian cars are not much of quality build but good in other areas such as appeal. Having worked on few of them taking them apart and putting them together I found lots of parts that are ancient in ways of assembly build and parts in general. I do have to admit the Ferrari is a better car in many ways, after 4 weeks of owning a Diablo I already don't want my Diablo anymore, it simply gets too much attention than I need. Everywhere I go there's a crowd even on the freeway people yellin'. But if you are single you will have way more women than you can handle considering you are male, if you're a women, you will have problems I think. Sounds good maybe but after this experience I will now be more decisive but it is hard when you love exotics. Unless you drive one for at least a couple weeks on the road you will not be albe to make a fair judgment on which is better and votes will only count when you personally experience this. This may sound hard for some of us to do so I am here to share my experience with the cars I have owned and driven. But anyway if you ask me which company is better, well it depends on which model you compare with to make judgement with. I don't know much of the Marcielago but the one in front of the Road and Track I have personally seen that in person and it looks very stout. The person buying that one that was tested was the one that owned the Diablo I have, small world isn't it?... time for trade in, he he.... | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1549 Registered: 12-2000 |
Lambo's have been kit cars. They look damn cool though and rumors may be now the new ones aren't kit cars. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 266 Registered: 12-2001 |
Ron Thomas: you are wrong. There is a Lambo list that i know of; there may also be others. In some ways, i'm sorry L. didn't have the relatively good fortune F did, but went thru many hands, with spotty manufacturing continuity and an appalling lack of dealership network, at least here in the states. They made and still make interesting, high performance cars, that have suffered from a bad reputation for reliability, parts availability etc. I particularly love the older ones (pre -Countach), the lp 400, before it got all flared and winged; not much for the look of the Diablo, but the tuned cars are supposed to be beasts. I agree that the "competition" should benefit us all; the post Muira Ferraris (daytona; boxer) are still milestones. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 118 Registered: 2-2001 |
575'd be my pick, also. 12 cyl being the criteria, may go with a Vanquish over the Lambo, too. | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Junior Member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 130 Registered: 4-2002 |
To be fair I would have to drive both, but based upon looks...damn I'll tak'em both... but that 575m is soooooo sweet! | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Junior Member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 129 Registered: 4-2002 |
I wonder if there are any F-car fans on this site??? | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Junior Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 87 Registered: 1-2002 |
Manu, 575MM for me. No contest. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 679 Registered: 8-2001 |
I like the Murcielago. So exotic and enticing. However, I must be getting old because when I look at any of these cars, the word "usability" keep popping up. So given the two choices, I'd have to go with the 575. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 215 Registered: 2-2002 |
Hmmmm, If you are looking at a NEW V12 supercar.... you're effective choice is limited to the Ferrari 575MM or the Murcielago. If you guys were in a position to afford either, BRAND NEW which one would you guys purchase? I have always loved the Maranello but I'm warming to the idea of a Black Murcielago. (although unfortunately, at this stage, my preference remains fairly academic.) | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
New member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 18 Registered: 5-2002 |
They don't even have a Lambo chat room FERRARI is KING!!!!! | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 677 Registered: 8-2001 |
Lambos are a no-go around here in the Seattle area. There's no official Lambo dealer here. The last dealer sold like 3 Diablos and folded. | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
New member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2002 |
This means nothing to me..FERRARI is King!!! | ||
| Ryanab (Ryanab)
New member Username: Ryanab Post Number: 42 Registered: 3-2002 |
A German designing an Italian supercar still doesn't sit well with me... IMHO. *RMK | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 675 Registered: 8-2001 |
Well, I hope the 360 successor will meet the challenge. Rumor is that the new F-car will have 450HP and probably be lighter than it is now. Might be time to get on the waiting list again. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
New member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 23 Registered: 4-2002 |
Nothing but good things can come from Lamborghini once again steping up to challange Ferrari. No matter what comes of it, one thing is for sure. We all win! | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 674 Registered: 8-2001 |
Thanks, Doody. Makes sense now. So it's for "dispatching" a 360 Modena? | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Junior Member Username: Doody Post Number: 175 Registered: 11-2001 |
maybe: [[[ There were five of these bullfighters, all native Mexicans.12 The chief matador was Capt. Gregorio Gallardo, a merchant tailor of Chihuahua. Gallardo was billed as the most noted of all the noted bullfighters of Old Mexico. Several Dodge City citizens remembered his having killed bulls in a ring at Paso del Norte some years before. He carried two swords, "used for dispatching purposes," with straight two-edged blades three feet in length. These, so Moore said, were made at Toledo, Spain. One of them, he claimed, was 150 years old and had been owned and used by Captain Gallardo's great-grandfather, once a professional matador of high degree in Spain. ]]] http://www.ku.edu/carrie/kancoll/khq/1933/33_3_mechem.htm ? doody. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 673 Registered: 8-2001 |
It'll be interesting to see how the small Lambo turn out. Gallardo? | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Junior Member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 121 Registered: 4-2002 |
It�ll be raging bull against prancing horse when Lamborghini�s eagerly awaited smaller model debuts next year to square up to Ferrari�s sublime 360 Modena. After several false starts the small Lambo, codenamed L140 and tipped to be called Gallardo, is already being tested, albeit under modified Diablo body panels, as is reported in the latest issue of Autocar. The new car will have an all-new alloy chassis and a V10 engine developing up to 335 kW � therefore outgunning its rival from Ferrari. The Lamborghini is also expected to be quicker, and more expensive. Unlike the Murci�lago�s V12, the L140�s new V10 engine will be mounted ahead of a six-speed gearbox, which presumably means it will be rear-drive only, and not four-wheel drive, as originally thought. The man who gave the Murci�lago its smooth but dramatic styling, Luc Donckerwolke, is again responsible for the L140�s final shape, rumoured to be very aggressive and totally different from the 1995 Cala showcar (pictured). As part of Lamborghini�s radical expansion plan, a coup� version of the L140 will debut first, followed by a roadster, and also an open-topped Murci�lago. But that�s not all. To achieve the 2005 sales target of 1 500 cars (up from around 250 in 2001) Lamborghini is rumoured to be looking at a �modern Espada� � an update of the four seater �70s coupe. Even saloons are (or have been) under consideration. Former Audi chairman Franz-Josef Paefgen saw potential for an Audi A8-based Lamborghini limo, apparently as a rival for Maserati�s upcoming new Quattroporte  |